Buy American

[BKBrown]

Over Simplified Idea of a "Fair Tax"
Let's say there is a 5% tax on everything a person buys with the exception of food items and clothing.
Corporations pay 10% of Gross (not net).

Politicians pay the same as everyone else and get no benefits when no longer in office. All their personal assets are frozen except for standard interest while they are in office. (NO way to become rich from political favors)
I'm sorry, but there is no "fair" way to have a progressive tax.

OR - Everyone pays 10% of their gross income with no exceptions as to how the income was earned. No tax on purchases.

Now -- I'll get controversial -- I have absolutely NO problem with a person who is mentally or physically unable to work with getting assistance. I DO have a problem with people sitting at home and collecting money that others paid in taxes when they are capable of doing something to earn that money. Local governments should provide 40 hour / week jobs for anyone collecting public $. I could go into the kind of work required etc. - put in 40 hours verified and collect our check (if you can pass a drug test).

We would have CLEAN streets, highways, public buildings, + daycare for public employees.

Health Care is another issue !

OK - start your comments on my IDEAS -- remember they are just ideas.

 

[twall]

@ mystreba:

True, but if you look at the dollar amount, a rich person spending 50% of their income is a far greater amount than a poor person't 100%.

For example: I spend every dime of my $20 some-odd thousand a year. But, the owner of the shop, I'd bet spends more than that in 6 months. So, he'd still be paying more in taxes.

Yes, he'd have some leftover - whereas I don't - but, I can't begrudge him that. I like the guy, he works hard to keep me employed. That isn't just blowin sunshine up his you-know-what, either. During the downturn, he went into great personal debt just to keep the doors open.

 

[mystreba]

I'm sorry, but there is no "fair" way to have a progressive tax.

Well, you could..

Everyone pays 10% of their gross income with no exceptions as to how the income was earned. No tax on purchases.

Yes, do that! :biggrin:



ps - I don't find your views controversial at all.

 

[mystreba]

@ mystreba:

True, but if you look at the dollar amount, a rich person spending 50% of their income is a far greater amount than a poor person't 100%.

For example: I spend every dime of my $20 some-odd thousand a year. But, the owner of the shop, I'd bet spends more than that in 6 months. So, he'd still be paying more in taxes.

Yes, he'd have some leftover - whereas I don't - but, I can't begrudge him that. I like the guy, he works hard to keep me employed. That isn't just blowin sunshine up his you-know-what, either. During the downturn, he went into great personal debt just to keep the doors open.

I think JB was right about the overlords! Your spending power was disproportionately reduced (by orders of magnitude, compared to a rich person), and you're ok with that!

 

[twall]

So, we should punish the rich guy for being lucky (or God forbid, working harder than me, and being willing to take chances I would not)? We should take more from him - so we all can be more socially equal?

I don't buy it. My dad was a small business owner, and I work for a small business. They are dis-incentivized to make the business more profitable (just so they can have more of the fruits of their labor taken away). I just don't believe in Socialism......it never seems to work out the way it was thought it would.

 

[Oddball]

Jetblast,

To paraphrase what you're saying: If you make more you should pay more.

That line of thinking is straight out of the Communist Manifesto.

I believe everyone pays the same % is the only "fair" way. The rich are going to pay more money through the fair tax simply because they will in all likelyhood be spending more money, buying those G4s and whatnot, but they will still be paying the same percentage as the guy flipping burgers at McDonalds. That's social equality to me. If you tax the burger flipper's boss to the point that its too much of a hassle to stay in business, what happens? The burger flipper loses his job, and there are a lot more burger flippers than rich guys employing them.

 

[twall]

"to each according to their needs - from each according to their ability" or something like that....

 

[Oddball]

"to each according to their needs - from each according to their ability" or something like that....

Yep, and how did that work out for the USSR? The poor stayed poor and the elite class was just replaced by another elite class.

 

[twall]

Yep, and how did that work out for the USSR? The poor stayed poor and the elite class was just replaced by another elite class.

The rich have a way of STAYING rich, no matter what societies through the ages have done to try and make it not so.

The nice thing about America is that you can always try your own hand at the businessman/woman thing. Nowhere on Earth was it easier than here.

But, the tax system is making it harder and harder, like mystreba said, but like I also said, there are other factors making it really difficult. Once it gets so hard, many who would have say "why bother" - we are doomed as a society.

 

[mystreba]

@twall - a tax on purchases helps the rich get richer and keeps the poor in their "proper" place because it leaves us average guys with no discretionary income, and those rich guys retain much more of their income for discretionary activies like investing. Do you have money for investments? You never will if you are taxed on what you spend, because you MUST spend everything that you make to survive.

That's what makes the "fair tax" unfair. (just ask yourself this question - who is promoting this idea of "fair tax"? I think you will find they are all millionaires. If YOU were asked to come up with a "fair tax", I doubt you'd cook up this scheme!)

Now don't misconstrue this as some "socialist plot" to redistribute the wealth. I absolutely do not want to punish the rich fat cats (maybe take them out behind the woodshed, but certainly not punish them financially). But a flat tax of 25% certainly seems more fair to me. It leave us all (rich and poor alike) with a proportional amount of discretionary income.