Buy American

[BKBrown]

Nope - All we ever had for a mill was a small table top CNC mill and basically set zero at a point on the material. It was capable of doing x,y,z on a simple program and that had severe limitations.
I understand the need to make decisions based on available $ -- Been There, Done That --- and STILL Do - now it is just easier than it has been in the past.

Being a shop teacher, you may be familiar with the Blake Coax.

 

[Oddball]

Boy, I'm gonna ruffle some feathers here I'm sure, but I''ll never be accused of being PC or unopinionated. High taxation, gov't regulations and labor unions are all to blame for the decline of American productivity and quality of goods. Companies take jobs and business overseas to avoid taxation and in some cases regualtions and unions. I cannot blame them for that. They're in business to make money, not give their products away or pay exhorbitant wages and taxes for the "privelege" of making their products here. I buy American when the product I want just happens to be made here, but I don't go out of my way to buy American. I purposely will not buy a product that's touted as being "Proudly Union Made" or some such nonsense. All that means to me is I'm getting a product that costs way more than it should because a union negotiated a $50K/year salary for some needle threader or button pusher that should be making minimum wage.

 

[BKBrown]

No ruffled feathers here, I agree. Unions did, at one time serve their purpose in not allowing workers to be exploited, It has now gone way past that and we have "union bosses and organizers" that are socialist and attempting to make unions "world wide" so thay can live off the backs of the companies and workers. There are some states that are "right to work" states and union membership is voluntary. The companies that have been able to stay and keep American workers are more likely to be in more business friendly states and right to work states. I ry to support those companies (not "Union Shops") !

Boy, I'm gonna ruffle some feathers here I'm sure, but I''ll never be accused of being PC or unopinionated. High taxation, gov't regulations and labor unions are all to blame for the decline of American productivity and quality of goods. Companies take jobs and business overseas to avoid taxation and in some cases regualtions and unions. I cannot blame them for that. They're in business to make money, not give their products away or pay exhorbitant wages and taxes for the "privelege" of making their products here. I buy American when the product I want just happens to be made here, but I don't go out of my way to buy American. I purposely will not buy a product that's touted as being "Proudly Union Made" or some such nonsense. All that means to me is I'm getting a product that costs way more than it should because a union negotiated a $50K/year salary for some needle threader or button pusher that should be making minimum wage.

 

[mystreba]

That, indeed is simplistic tea-party rhetoric.

Just for the record, I don't give a rat's bandersnatch about the tea-party. So, let's move beyond the labels.

I made two points about the tax code. First, in response to the OP's comment that taxes were killing US corporations, I countered that they are not - because of all the loopholes that can be exploited. You apparently agree with this, since you backed it up:

Most TRULY huge corporatons pay less in taxes (ALL TAXES) than an induvidual working for them pays in federal, state, and school taxes. ONE PERSON.

My second point was that taxes were a factor in the migration of jobs overseas. You agreed with that as well (directly, and indirectly - since one of the reasons truly huge corporations pay so little in taxes is because of their offshore operations).

In terms of my other point about letting the free market do it's thing, you apparently agree with that as well:

It's sad we can't compete in our own capitalistic system. I'm all for tariffs. But, that's only our 'cheating' to compete with their 'cheating'.......OY!

Why do you argue with - and throw labels at - someone that you apparently agree with.:confused2:



Look, you raise a good point about OSHA, but then you overreach by stating it is the PRIMARY reason for shipping operations offshore. THAT is oversimplifying. If OSHA regs cost 35% of gross income (not just 35% of operating costs), I could believe it. But that would be impossible, since those costs can be directly written-off against income tax!

Look, OSHA is a factor, certainly. Real wages (including benefits like health care) are a factor as well. As are taxes...

Open a plant in Pittsburg, pay 35% federal tax on gross income.
Open a plant in India, pay 0% federal tax on gross income.

I can park those profits offshore and pay no tax, yet I get to deduct the expenses immediately. I stand by my point - the corporate tax code needs fixing.

 

[Jetblast]

It would be easier to buy American if more American workers would settle for starvation wages, no benefits, and harsh work environments. Like Chinese workers do.

Labor unions came through necessity and although they do go too far at times, the general idea is a good one as far as I'm concerned. Any American who busts their ass to produce quality products is deserving of a decent lifestyle, including a good used car and a modest home for their family. Call me old fashioned. Workers need a platform against bottom-line competition or you get Triangle Shirt-Waist Factory fire stories, hordes of working poor, or the lifestyle of virtually any factory worker living in a third world country where the vast majority of our stuff is made. Seems crazy to vilify the American union worker trying to avoid getting a raw deal, while ignoring the fact that those actually making our products are jumping out of factory windows in China because their lives suck so hard. (See "Foxconn Factory".)

Interesting that one side of the aisle looks at what unions have accomplished and says, "I don't have that, but everyone should", while the other side says, "I don't have that, so let's take it away from those S.O.B.s."

The "global economy" sounded OK when the moneyed presented the idea, but it isn't lifting the world to American standards. Its dragging America down to third-world standards. For decades it didn't matter because our economic strength was based on shifting money around using hype and scientific notation, but that's not looking as good as it once did. Maybe some protectionism is in order now.

I like buying American when I can, but usually the choice was already made for me in a board room. I'm not going out of my way to look for a "Made In USA" cell phone, because the problem is far bigger than anything my purchasing power can resolve. Its ironic that those who champion free trade and lack of regulation to a high degree, are also the most likely to say "Buy American" without recognizing that the latter works against the former.

 

[twall]

I said that, mystreba, because that is the drum the Tea party (and the right wing as a whole) has been beating nonstop - and although it IS a part of it, it is not the end-all and be-all of it.

Unions are a big part of the problem, as is state laws (and Federal, soon) requiring employers to provide health insurance. In NY this also includes the expensive 'mental health' portion of health insurance. The exodus of jobs from NY started a long time ago, back when times were supposed to be good. Our laws, unions, AND the tax code are all part of the problem. I think we need to take a good, hard look at EVERYTHING, not JUST the tax code.

But, the fine line here is how should it be fixed? To get the jobs back here, the companies that go elsewhere I think, should have to pay tarriffs to re-import the products into the US, as if they were NOT a US company. That's what tarrifs are for - to level the playing field. But, the field is so tilted, we need to find a way to make it so goods made in this country aren't so expensive. Otherwise, like I stated, nobody will be able to buy ANYTHING.

 

[mystreba]

It would be easier to buy American if more American workers would settle for starvation wages, no benefits, and harsh work environments. Like Chinese workers do.

That was very well said.

And a great way to tee-up your point, which I agree with. (well, except potentially for the part about how your cell phone purchase won't make a difference - but that would depend on how you meant it)

 

[twall]

@jetblast:

I do think there is call for a basic floor, but I don't think making non-union jobs essentially union jobs by law is the way to go. NY tried this, and the companies took their businesses (and jobs) elsewhere. Getting laws OFF the books is actually harder then getting them ON.

Furthermore, what is a 'decent lifestyle'? I see your examples - and that shouldn't require $50k a year to achieve. Retirement? Health insurance? These are also a big part of a salary - so $50k/yr PLUS another $15-20k in bennies? I think that's just a tad much......and makes the cost of American goods go up - requiring even MORE pay, on and on......

 

[Oddball]

Well, I may be getting too political here, so mods feel free to delete. But I've got two words that'll fix a good protion of the problems our country faces today.

Fair Tax

 

[mystreba]

Well, I may be getting too political here, so mods feel free to delete. But I've got two words that'll fix a good protion of the problems our country faces today.

Fair Tax

It's not political unless you attach labels to it. But an explanation of what you consider to be "fair tax" - and which problems you think it will fix - would help. Otherwise, it sounds like political rhetoric (I made that mistake in an earlier post :ashamed