Buy American

[Oddball]

@twall - a tax on purchases helps the rich get richer and keeps the poor in their "proper" place because it leaves us average guys with no discretionary income, and those rich guys retain much more of their income for discretionary activies like investing. Do you have money for investments? You never will if you are taxed on what you spend, because you MUST spend everything that you make to survive.

QUOTE]

I don't follow your logic Mystreba. If you replace the 22% imbedded taxes on everything now with a 23% sales tax, you are basically keeping prices the same. A $100 dollar item would become $78. The Fair Tax of 23% would then make that item actually cost you about $96. On top of that the Fair Tax would do away with federal taxes, so you'de be bringing home what, 25 to 35% more of your paycheck?, so you'd have more descretionary income to spend. How do you figure you MUST spend everything you make to survive? You'll be paying the same thing at the store and bringing home 25 to 35% more money. On top of that, the tax you'd pay, based on the poverty level of your household, would be refunded to you every month. Say a family of 4 has a poverty level of $24,000/year. I don't know what the actual figure is, but 24K makes the math easy. That breaks down to $2000/month. The tax you'd pay on that 2000 would be $460 (23% of $2000). The gov't would send you a check every month to cover the tax you'd pay on the basic neccessities. If the income of that family was, say $24000/year, the net would be say $22,560, that's based on an arbitrary state income tax rate of 6%. Add to that the $460/month rebate on taxes on the neccessities, which comes out to $5520/year, and all of a sudden the family is actually coming out about $4000 ahead of where they started. The actual poverty level for a family of 4 is around 22,000, I just used 24K to make the math easier in my head, but the numbers come out pretty close to the same.

 

[twall]

@oddball:

I think you were right above in getting back to mowers. This topic has been hashed to the brink. Nobody's changing their minds.......

So, all we're doing is arguing. I don't want to test Muhammad's patience with this - he's let this thread stand thsfar.....

 

[Oddball]

Agreed. We ventured into politics, which I failed to note was against the rules, and had no intention of straying into to such a degree anyway.

 

[jd335]

the only thing i will say is 95 percent of the things i use and need are not made in this country so i don't have a choise for example the only shoe company that makes shoes in the us is red wing if they don't have a shoe i like then it's across the water or nothing.:confused2:

 

[twall]

the only thing i will say is 95 percent of the things i use and need are not made in this country so i don't have a choise for example the only shoe company that makes shoes in the us is red wing if they don't have a shoe i like then it's across the water or nothing.:confused2:

Not even all Red Wing shoes are US made....I looked on their site, and the first steel toe I looked at was made in China.....:frown:

 

[BKBrown]

Dogpile search for shoes boots "made in USA"
shoes boots "made in USA" - Dogpile Web Search

 

[mystreba]

This topic has been hashed to the brink. Nobody's changing their minds. So, all we're doing is arguing. I don't want to test Muhammad's patience with this - he's let this thread stand thsfar.....

Why, and whose brink? Seems like a perfectly legit Front Porch discussion. I agree that it is difficult to discuss these topics while skirting political references, but if you can keep the politics out, it's a fascinating discussion! But I have to admit that I'm a bit of a discussion freak. I sat around the firepit last night talking issues with some guys until 2:30 am - in a cold drizzle.

I don't follow your logic Mystreba. If you.....

Not sure I follow yours either, since the fair tax has nothing to do with prices as far as I can tell. To frame it in that context only serves to cloud the issue - for me at least. But you did force me to look some stuff up, and I realize that I was ill-informed about the fair tax. So I learned something! See why I love discussion? :thumbsup:

I'ma have to call a timeout to research this further. So you see, discussion is good.

Postscript - my son came to me as I was posting this and asked me what Varsol was - he'd been watching a home repair program called "Holmes on Homes". I told him I didn't know. He said "GEEZ!! I want smarter adults!" Put me right in my place.

 

[Mini Motors]

Let's be clear about one thing. There is a huge difference between an American company producing components of their product outside of the country, and foreign companies setting up factories here in the U.S.. While companies like Nissan and Toyota employ Americans, their profits still leave the country. And this affects the balance of trade. They also have an unfair advantage in that they get tax break incentives from states who do so to entice them to set up shop in their state. GM, Ford and Chrysler don't get these breaks because they haven't opened a new factory since this practice has been in style. GM had a new factory, a Saturn plant, but it has since closed when Saturn went away. Every car maker in the U.S. that is not GM, Ford, or Chrysler gets these tax breaks. And let's not forget why they decided to set up here in the first place. It was to get around import taxes. That certainly sounds fair to me!:thumbdown:

 

[twall]

Let's be clear about one thing. There is a huge difference between an American company producing components of their product outside of the country, and foreign companies setting up factories here in the U.S..

....Then there are the American companies that have a window A/C unit made in China, assemled in China, the box is printed in China, and it's packed in China......but it says G.E. - so the profits stay here, right? Or do they go to an offshore bank in the Carribean?

 

[Mini Motors]

Where GE or whoever keeps their money doesn't affect the balance of trade, and is a whole other argument.