Motor drag when PTO engaged

[shiftsuper175607]

Okay, I got it started and tried to push a tree. Tires spun a bit then the motor almost died. I'm not convinced I have a tranny issue. I think its something with the motor as it doesn't rev up when a load is put on it. Full throttle isn't as revved as it used to be either. I also tried the choke during this and it killed the motor.


Someone mentioned the governor before and that sounds like it could be an issue. I am bout spent on this thing.

If the deck has new bearings and nothing binding, the clutch acts okay and checks out electrically, and there is no apparent transmission issue, then it has to be something with the motor, right? The compression is good on the motor and it does start (with some coaxing). The governor spring was broken but I reattached it though it is just a bit shorter--that shouldn't be an issue, could it?

My thought is to see about a new motor as the old leaks and burns oil anyway.

Any more ideas guys? I am very thankful for this forum and really appreciate all your help. This one is a bugger for sure!

it sure could be an incorrect spring tension on the governor!!!!

you should have chased that rabbit a long time ago...maybe mentioned it sooner.

 

[motoman]

After reading the thread again it does seem to be a power starvation problem. Your compression reading is twice my Intek assuming you got a good reading. So , without insulting everyone ...The (mechanical governor(yours?) aims to keep RPMs up---?3500? If the weights sense no load the carb butterfly is relatively closed. When closed there is less venturi affect (suction) pulling gas slower into the intake charge-leaner mix will still produce high RPM. But lean mix will not produce enough power to e.g., turn blades and will tend to kill the engine. So , if governor is not working properly it will not sense load (like PTO coming on), and will not open carb buttefly. An opened carb butterfly (throttle plate) causes more venturi affect (suction) and pulls more gas into the mixture stream. A richer mix produces power and drives the engine into full RPM.

Now what this thread has hinted at is application of choke-did it make a difference? You said it killed the engine. But we do not know if you pulled it full on with black smoke or...? If slight enrichment from a manual choke helped it may point to a governor problem or...

Perhaps time to consider the carb. A sticking carb inlet valve (crud will only let it partially open) will starve the engine if governor is working but carb cannot give enough gas. Then there is the main jet ( I am not familiar with my Intek, much less yours), but it is a hole expected to be clean and open, not clogged. Fuel delivery: tiny pulsed gas pump or gravity? Is fuel filter clogged. Is gas line unclogged?

Just some ideas before you plunk down $600 large.... Take a look at your plugs and compare the insulator color to any auto repair book for adequate fuel mix (brown/tan) not white.

Most who respond know all this and more, but perhaps it can help newbies and show how the tips are generated. As Americans we have trouble with long explanations, but sound bites don't always work.:laughing:

 

[afollower]

it sure could be an incorrect spring tension on the governor!!!!

you should have chased that rabbit a long time ago...maybe mentioned it sooner.

Sorry, I had completely forgotten about it. So I will pick up a new spring and install. Worth it to see.

 

[afollower]

After reading the thread again it does seem to be a power starvation problem. Your compression reading is twice my Intek assuming you got a good reading. So , without insulting everyone ...The (mechanical governor(yours?) aims to keep RPMs up---?3500? If the weights sense no load the carb butterfly is relatively closed. When closed there is less venturi affect (suction) pulling gas slower into the intake charge-leaner mix will still produce high RPM. But lean mix will not produce enough power to e.g., turn blades and will tend to kill the engine. So , if governor is not working properly it will not sense load (like PTO coming on), and will not open carb buttefly. An opened carb butterfly (throttle plate) causes more venturi affect (suction) and pulls more gas into the mixture stream. A richer mix produces power and drives the engine into full RPM.

Now what this thread has hinted at is application of choke-did it make a difference? You said it killed the engine. But we do not know if you pulled it full on with black smoke or...? If slight enrichment from a manual choke helped it may point to a governor problem or...

Perhaps time to consider the carb. A sticking carb inlet valve (crud will only let it partially open) will starve the engine if governor is working but carb cannot give enough gas. Then there is the main jet ( I am not familiar with my Intek, much less yours), but it is a hole expected to be clean and open, not clogged. Fuel delivery: tiny pulsed gas pump or gravity? Is fuel filter clogged. Is gas line unclogged?

Just some ideas before you plunk down $600 large.... Take a look at your plugs and compare the insulator color to any auto repair book for adequate fuel mix (brown/tan) not white.

Most who respond know all this and more, but perhaps it can help newbies and show how the tips are generated. As Americans we have trouble with long explanations, but sound bites don't always work.:laughing:

Appreciate the help. I rebuilt the carb last year. Probably should take it off and clean it and see what I find. Report back later! Have a good weekend fellas.

 

[mechanic mark]

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...hoot pto clutch&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.29108j0j8 Read through some of these concerning PTO. I believe bearing in your PTO clutch is culprit, either worn out or seized. A new clutch assembly will probably run $200-$350.

 

[KrashnKraka]

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...hoot pto clutch&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.29108j0j8 Read through some of these concerning PTO. I believe bearing in your PTO clutch is culprit, either worn out or seized. A new clutch assembly will probably run $200-$350.

The options have certainly been covered in depth and now I read the governer spring
is a dodgy fit.
I would expect the clutch to be giving out some audible signals to the operator when
malfunctioning. And maybe it will when the full power output is reached

KK

 

[afollower]

After reading the thread again it does seem to be a power starvation problem. Your compression reading is twice my Intek assuming you got a good reading. So , without insulting everyone ...The (mechanical governor(yours?) aims to keep RPMs up---?3500? If the weights sense no load the carb butterfly is relatively closed. When closed there is less venturi affect (suction) pulling gas slower into the intake charge-leaner mix will still produce high RPM. But lean mix will not produce enough power to e.g., turn blades and will tend to kill the engine. So , if governor is not working properly it will not sense load (like PTO coming on), and will not open carb buttefly. An opened carb butterfly (throttle plate) causes more venturi affect (suction) and pulls more gas into the mixture stream. A richer mix produces power and drives the engine into full RPM.

I bought a compression gauge and checked it three different times, and let it sit. Two readings at 115psi and one at 120psi and didn't drop after 60 minutes. I got the kit at Harbor Freight so take it for what it worth!

Now what this thread has hinted at is application of choke-did it make a difference? You said it killed the engine. But we do not know if you pulled it full on with black smoke or...? If slight enrichment from a manual choke helped it may point to a governor problem or...

I pulled choke about halfway and it killed it. No black smoke at all. Just killed it.

Perhaps time to consider the carb. A sticking carb inlet valve (crud will only let it partially open) will starve the engine if governor is working but carb cannot give enough gas. Then there is the main jet ( I am not familiar with my Intek, much less yours), but it is a hole expected to be clean and open, not clogged. Fuel delivery: tiny pulsed gas pump or gravity? Is fuel filter clogged. Is gas line unclogged?

Carb not sticking and is clean. pulsed gas pump working. New fuel filter.

Just some ideas before you plunk down $600 large.... Take a look at your plugs and compare the insulator color to any auto repair book for adequate fuel mix (brown/tan) not white.

Appreciate the help. Spark plug is new this spring and has a tan color. Does burn some oil.

Most who respond know all this and more, but perhaps it can help newbies and show how the tips are generated. As Americans we have trouble with long explanations, but sound bites don't always work.:laughing:

Agreed. The insights have helped me a lot. I know about enough to get me in trouble but can usually figure it out! Thanks.

 

[afollower]

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...hoot pto clutch&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.29108j0j8 Read through some of these concerning PTO. I believe bearing in your PTO clutch is culprit, either worn out or seized. A new clutch assembly will probably run $200-$350.

Appreciated the info. I pulled the clutch and the bearing is warn but the clutch really grinds. I think it is shot. I found a new one here: Amazon.com : Dixon 539120786 Electric PTO Blade Clutch - Free Upgraded Bearings : Patio, Lawn & Garden This is the same part number and lowest price I could find at $132.95 and free shipping. Not sure if reliable or not. A site called dixonztrparts.com has clutch for $175.96 plus tax and shipping.

Can you tear the old clutch apart and replace parts? Everything looks riveted together to me.

 

[afollower]

The options have certainly been covered in depth and now I read the governer spring
is a dodgy fit.
I would expect the clutch to be giving out some audible signals to the operator when
malfunctioning. And maybe it will when the full power output is reached

KK

Yea, I forgot about the spring--sorry. The clutch never made much noise except when first engaging. I removed it and the bearing is spins but not like it should, IMO. The clutch grinds when I turn it and seems too tight to me. I figure its toast.

 

[KrashnKraka]

Appreciated the info. I pulled the clutch and the bearing is warn but the clutch really grinds. I think it is shot. I found a new one here: Amazon.com : Dixon 539120786 Electric PTO Blade Clutch - Free Upgraded Bearings : Patio, Lawn & Garden This is the same part number and lowest price I could find at $132.95 and free shipping. Not sure if reliable or not. A site called dixonztrparts.com has clutch for $175.96 plus tax and shipping.

Can you tear the old clutch apart and replace parts? Everything looks riveted together to me.

If it is a Borg Warner, definitely yes.
I have posted "how to" before today, not sure which site though.
Happy to repost if it helps.

KK