Briggs Intek 20HP Using Oil

[reynoldston]

I agree with Mad Mackie invest in a good service manual for this engine.

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

I wouldn't leave any liquid of any kind in an engine overnight and particularly any volume of it.
You need to get and read the parts manual and service manual for your engine so you know how compression release systems work and how they affect compression testing and leakdown testing results. Unless your engine has more than 500 hours of operation on it I doubt that it has much carbon buildup anywhere in it.
If this B&S Intek twin that has the air filter cover with 4 screws holding it down and is more than 3-4 years old then there may be a problem with the air filtering system. Some V twin models suffered from dust particulate injestion as the air filtering systems had air leaks down stream from the air filter. This dust injestion causes premature piston ring and cylinder wall ware which increases crankcase pressures beyond what the engine is designed to deal with and in time engine failure.

Thanks - that is the information I was looking for. I thought I had a carbon build-up down around the intake valve, but it very well could have been dust buid-up. Also I am sure I didn't help matters by using the gator blades with the deck block off plate which caused a dust storm while mowing. I do have the 4 screw filter housing and I bought this mower in 2007, but I believe it is a 2006 model. That would explain my oil turning black so quickly as well. I wonder if B&S is doing anything with this situation.

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

I agree with Mad Mackie invest in a good service manual for this engine.

I guess it is a good idea to have a manual but I know one thing - if this motor fails it will not get replaced with another B&S!

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

I have been communicating back and forth with a rep from B&S and I just sent him an e-mail about possible dust ingestion. I will let you know what he says.

 

[Mad Mackie]

My 2008 Scag tiger Cub Zero turn machine has a 26 HP B&S ELS series engine, basicly an Intek. It has a two screw air filter cover and supposedly the airfilter problems have been corrected. These machines are all very dusty and the engine is in the worst location for the dust, particularly with the collection system running. I have to replace air filters every 10-20 hours and I shake the dust out after every use of the machine. I never use hp air to clean air filters, it destroys the filter elements ability to catch small particles. I buy these filters by the case lot, 4 per case on line. Had I known about the dust problem with ZTR machines I would have bought one with the HD dual particle separating type Donaldson filter system. This would have forced me into a Kohler or Kawasaki engine neither of which I'm crazy about so I probably would have bought a different make of machine. I also change oil at 25 HR intervals with a filter change at 50 HRs. I use 5W30 synthetic engine as specified in the operators/service manuals for this engine. I use an oil evacuation system and I can see that the oil gets very dark. ZTR engines are run a 3,600 RPM most of the time, nature of the beast so to speak. Almost 400 HRs on my Scag, still running strong. My garden tractor has a B&S Vanguard 18 horizontal engine with 250 HRs on the engine and 2,300 HRs on the machine, recent repower.

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

You know the more I think about the dust thing the more it makes me think about how dry it was when I first bought this. We were in a massive drought around here back then and for at least the first year or more of owning it. I have gone through more air filters than I have with any other mower. I guess that is one downfall to the rear engine. I did get a response back from B&S today...

Thank you for your inquiry.

If it appears to be a ring issue I would have an authorized dealer inspect the engine, if they determine what the rings are worn due to dirt ingestion caused by a defect in materials or workmanship we can try and assist you with this. I have included the dealer locator below to assist you with finding one in your area.

I guess that is about what I expected. My fear, of course, is they get it apart and B&S says they aren't responsible and I end up with a huge bill. I think I am going to call some of the local dealers tomorrow to see what they say.

 

[Mad Mackie]

If the B&S engine on your machine is out of warranty then you WILL end up with a large servicing bill.
Being a part commercial operator and part service tech, in recent years I have repowered some of my machines and done the same for customers. This gives you a new engine with a new warranty, minimum down time, and usually costs the same or less than an engine overhaul. 15 years ago there were three engine overhaul shops that I dealt with, they are now out of business and I don't have a clue as to where I would get major machine work done other than several dealers in the Michigan/Wisconsin area whose small engine work has been good. My last few repower engines have come from Tulsa Engine Warehouse. I have the customer purchase the engine and have it delivered to them and then I take over from there. This way the warranty, the shipping address, and owner are all the same person/business. I don't have to put out the dollars and if the customer changes their mind I'm not left hanging with an engine that I don't need and the warranty clock ticking away. I also prefer to do diagnostics on their machine at their place, this way I don't end up with piles of junk machines that would cost me dollars and time for me to dispose of. I have performed these services in one of my trailers where the customer didn't have a suitable place to perform the diagnostics.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

After the horror stories I have heard about some of these local shops I may just run it till it blows. Now that I know a little more I can keep an eye on those things a little better. I never thought about the mulching kits in that way - after all the one I have is a factory option. I guess I was a little naive due to my father having snapper mowers that lasted forever with little to no problems and minimal maintenance. I can hardly remember him ever even changing the oil on one machine. It was at least 15 years old and ran like new. Someone stole it from his shop or I bet he would still have it.

Like mentioned before I am in the motorcycle business and there isn't anything I can't do to one. I do repairs all the time that have already been to some of our local shop and aren't fixed. It kills me to think that someone can get so frustrated with a shop they are willing to give up there hard earned money just to get there property back so they can take it elsewhere for the same issue. I just did a older Honda Magna that a guy paid a shop $1200 to rebuild the crabs, skin the tank, and get it running right. It came to me with dirty carbs, clogged petcock, broken fuel lines and not running at a all. All I could see they did right was creme the tank FOR $1200!!!!! This is what I am afraid of and would rather use the mower for as long as I can and then upgrade the motor when I repower.

Question: My mower has a 20HP - what is the rule of thumb on a mower for repower as far as how much bigger is OK? Is it like a boat where there is a max HP rating? Obviously I am not going to throw some monster on it, but would a 22 or 24 HP be ok?

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

I called 2 shops this morning and the first one (after giving him my whole story) tells me they don't do a lot with residential mowers, but they would be happy to look at it for $95/hour. The second shop told me they would look at it for a $30 diagnostic fee and would be very happy to work with me through B&S to try and get as much as they could from them. He said normally if it is something that is out of warranty (which it is) and is found to be a "abnormal" thing that is a manufacturer defect B&S will sometimes provide the parts and I would just be responsible for the labor. They charge $60/hour which isn't bad for a shop. He did say something that triggered a thought though. He mentioned they would test it with and without the PTO engaged. Sounds obvious, but when looking for smoke I have been off the mower which obviously I have to have the PTO disengaged for. So I went out and fired the mower up and let it warm up - I then sat backwards on the mower with my knees in the seat and sure enough when the PTO is engaged I get a slight puff of smoke each and every time. I am wondering that when it is in use and under load of the PTO and the reistance of the grass is it slightly smoking and I just don't notice it from the dust and grass clippings flying around - Plus I am facing the wrong way. That has to be it. Well at the very least I don't think I am insane anymore with a mower using oil and not smoking or leaking. As far as my next step - well I think I am just going to use it like it is and repower or rebuild later on. Hopefully I can get through a few more seasons with it like it is. Thanks for all the help!!!!!

 

[Mad Mackie]

A good diagnosis and confirmation of the results is best.
As for repower, get the numbers from your Intek, usually on one rocker cover, the model which is a 6 digit number, the type which usually is a 4 digit number followed by a two digit which could be letters and/or numbers, and the code which is also the manufacture date and location.
Go to both Small Engine Warehouse and Tulsa Engine Warehouse and check out the repower possibilities. Many times a power increase can be available and this is OK with a remote fuel tank. The configuration of the engine is deternined by the code number, and crankshaft length and diameter are critical. On the Small Engine Warehouse web site they have a repower link and you can get repower info directly for your machine there if it is available. The Tulsa Engine Warehouse site has a link to email them and they usually respond quickly. Get all the info about your machine and engine before you go searching, model s/n etc.
Engine mounting configurations have been standardized to an extent, but it is best to stick with the same make and branch line as original engine.
Have fun!!!
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing: