S240 Oil Change

GMJim

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I bought my S240 about mid summer this year and only have 6.8 hours on it. Winter showed up early this year and it's been sitting for about a month because I've been busy with other things. As an auto mechanic I don't like leaving used oil in an engine over winter storage and plan to change it but was wondering about changing out the break in oil before the (Kawasaki) recommended 8 hours. First off I can't confirm whether or not It's actually break in oil. Because I haven't had time to research the best oil to use in this thing I bought a filter and 10W-30 Turf guard oil from a JD dealer. It's supposed to be regular dino oil and not synthetic. I'll probably switch to synthetic next oil change. So I guess my question is am I dumping break in oil (if in fact it is break in oil) too soon or should I just do it?
Thanks
Jim
 

ILENGINE

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You would be fine changing the oil at 6.8 hours. And I have never seen a lawnmower or small engine company use break in oil in any engine.
 

Scrubcadet10

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Change it. Won't hurt a thing in the universe.
 

GMJim

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You would be fine changing the oil at 6.8 hours. And I have never seen a lawnmower or small engine company use break in oil in any engine.

Thanks for the reply. I asked the dealer parts guy about the oil and he did say it was break in oil but the service department couldn't confirm it. Another thing I was reading in the manual was about the grease used. I use a black Moly grease for just about everything and the manual warns about mixing grease and naturally recommends their own. Should I use the overly expensive JD grease or will the high quality Molyslip I have be an issue? I'm an engine guy but not small engines so this info is very helpful. Thanks!
 

cpurvis

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Take a look at my picture and you'll see the effects of leaving oil in an engine all winter (every winter) and using inferior dino oil.
 

AVB

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Break in periods was once common but the oil is usually the same oil that engine normally uses. It just that engine builder wants to make sure all of the manufacturing residues to removed from the engine. It is the same for us that actually rebuild engines. Even as clean as we think got the engine there is still residues left from the honing of the cylinder alone. Engines specially those without oil filters are usually have an oil change within a few hours just to make nothing is floating around in the oil that could damage the engine.

I even do this change out on the V8s I rebuild that have an oil filter.
 

GMJim

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Take a look at my picture and you'll see the effects of leaving oil in an engine all winter (every winter) and using inferior dino oil.
Ok! I'll bite. Why is it apart? I've been an auto mechanic / machinist for 46 years and build engines of all kinds BUT not small engines. I'm not afraid to ask questions about things I'm not familiar with and since I'm new to riding lawn mowers I figured this would be a good place to ask questions. I'm also a believer in synthetic lubricants. Opinions are like belly buttons (everybody has one) and I respect opinions other than my own. There are things in this JD manual that have me shaking my head and wonder if it was written for people who have no idea and will believe anything written down. I appreciate the help with my questions!
Thanks
P.S. I did confirm with JD that the on again and off again decision to use break in oil in their Kawasaki engines is on again. I'll leave the oil in for another couple of hours on the advice from Kawasaki service.
 

bertsmobile1

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Jim.
To take things from the top.
IT IS A LAWNMOWER ENGINE
IT IS A VERTICAL SHAFT LAWNMOWER ENGINE
IT IS THE CHEAPEST ENGINE IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE
You are stressing about nothing
The engine has an expected life of around 1000 hours as does the hydros
Half of the mowers out there will never get an oil change for their entire life.
The engines are cheap because the precision is very low even by automotive standards.
The engines are lazy ( 4500 rpm ceiling ) low reving with an extremely low power to displacement ratio.
Thus you can toss out most of what you know about engines & engine maintenance as it is overkill with a capital O .
Now FWIW I run all new engines that I fit with plain old SAE 30 mower oil because it is higher zinc than most car oils and contains a lot more anti corrosion addatives than every car oil.
They get between 1 & 2 hours of break in ( well I got to mow my own grass ) after which I do an oil & filter change then hand the mower back to the customer.
I give them a free in warranty service at 50 hours ( no labour charge ) and about 1/3 actually bring them back for it.

About 1/2 the mowers I service come in with the oil lower than the minimum mark on the dip stick .
Now that Honda have exited the mower engine market there are no high precision mower engines left in the market.
If you want to frighten yourself download the IPL for your engine and look at what parts are in there, or to be more precise what parts you would have expected to be in there that are missing .
All mower engines are built to a price, not a quality standard.
If you think I am talking through my anal cavity then look at the difference between the prices of Horizontal crank engines and vertical shaft engines.
The former are nearly twice the price because twice the engineering goes into them and they are expected to run around 10 times the hours that a mower engine does.
But try and find a compressor, pump or generator with an hour meter on them.

The average 500cc air cooled carburettored motorcycle engine puts out around 60 Hp
The average 500cc mower engine put out about 20 Hp.

Now FWIW you will get the best service life from your engine, if you follow your instincts and change the oil immediately after the last mow of the season.
Forget the numbers, they really are just a guide .
And to drive home how meaningless the numbers actually are, the hour meters are fitted by the mower maker, not the engine makers .
Thus on most JD's the meter records the hours that the key is in the on position , ( engine running or not ).
On Toros the meter records the hours that the PTO is on ,( engine running or not ).
Engines fitted with a tiny tach will record the hours that engine is running as they use an induction pick up on one of the HT leads.

I play with vintage & veteran motorcycles and oils are the most debated topic.
My advice about the best oil is the stuff you just took out and the more often the better .
Synthetics will not hurt a mower engine but as most of them have a lower viscosity base they are more prone to leaking , particularly when not being used .
My customers that swear by them do notice that the engine gives off some exhaust smoke when first started and this is simply oil that has leaked past the rings and gets blown into the muffler where it slowly smokes off.
I have removed mufflers to confirm this.
My personal belief is synthetics in the engine are lipstick on a pig, but if pigs wearing lipstick is you thing then go ahead.
It is your lawnmower so do what makes you feel comfortable.
There are lots of people ( including many of my customers ) who use the same oil in everything fo convienance sake and very few of them report a higher rate of failures than others who have a garage with 30 different oils in them.
The caveat on this is the one oil customers do tend to change their oils regularly.
 

GMJim

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Oct 2, 2018
Threads
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Jim.
To take things from the top.
IT IS A LAWNMOWER ENGINE
IT IS A VERTICAL SHAFT LAWNMOWER ENGINE
IT IS THE CHEAPEST ENGINE IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE
You are stressing about nothing
The engine has an expected life of around 1000 hours as does the hydros
Half of the mowers out there will never get an oil change for their entire life.
The engines are cheap because the precision is very low even by automotive standards.
The engines are lazy ( 4500 rpm ceiling ) low reving with an extremely low power to displacement ratio.
Thus you can toss out most of what you know about engines & engine maintenance as it is overkill with a capital O .
Now FWIW I run all new engines that I fit with plain old SAE 30 mower oil because it is higher zinc than most car oils and contains a lot more anti corrosion addatives than every car oil.
They get between 1 & 2 hours of break in ( well I got to mow my own grass ) after which I do an oil & filter change then hand the mower back to the customer.
I give them a free in warranty service at 50 hours ( no labour charge ) and about 1/3 actually bring them back for it.

About 1/2 the mowers I service come in with the oil lower than the minimum mark on the dip stick .
Now that Honda have exited the mower engine market there are no high precision mower engines left in the market.
If you want to frighten yourself download the IPL for your engine and look at what parts are in there, or to be more precise what parts you would have expected to be in there that are missing .
All mower engines are built to a price, not a quality standard.
If you think I am talking through my anal cavity then look at the difference between the prices of Horizontal crank engines and vertical shaft engines.
The former are nearly twice the price because twice the engineering goes into them and they are expected to run around 10 times the hours that a mower engine does.
But try and find a compressor, pump or generator with an hour meter on them.

The average 500cc air cooled carburettored motorcycle engine puts out around 60 Hp
The average 500cc mower engine put out about 20 Hp.

Now FWIW you will get the best service life from your engine, if you follow your instincts and change the oil immediately after the last mow of the season.
Forget the numbers, they really are just a guide .
And to drive home how meaningless the numbers actually are, the hour meters are fitted by the mower maker, not the engine makers .
Thus on most JD's the meter records the hours that the key is in the on position , ( engine running or not ).
On Toros the meter records the hours that the PTO is on ,( engine running or not ).
Engines fitted with a tiny tach will record the hours that engine is running as they use an induction pick up on one of the HT leads.

I play with vintage & veteran motorcycles and oils are the most debated topic.
My advice about the best oil is the stuff you just took out and the more often the better .
Synthetics will not hurt a mower engine but as most of them have a lower viscosity base they are more prone to leaking , particularly when not being used .
My customers that swear by them do notice that the engine gives off some exhaust smoke when first started and this is simply oil that has leaked past the rings and gets blown into the muffler where it slowly smokes off.
I have removed mufflers to confirm this.
My personal belief is synthetics in the engine are lipstick on a pig, but if pigs wearing lipstick is you thing then go ahead.
It is your lawnmower so do what makes you feel comfortable.
There are lots of people ( including many of my customers ) who use the same oil in everything fo convienance sake and very few of them report a higher rate of failures than others who have a garage with 30 different oils in them.
The caveat on this is the one oil customers do tend to change their oils regularly.

Thanks for spending the time with all of this info. Believe me I'm not stressing at all. I use a high zinc content oil in some of the flat tappet engines I work on because of cam break in issues. I have a Toro 21 inch lawnmower with a Suzuki engine it and is 26 years old. Doesn't burn a drop of oil and gets synthetic Amsoil oil each year. Like I said earlier I'm not familiar with small engines and I know they are different in many ways so I'll keep on learning.
Thanks
 

cpurvis

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Joined
Aug 25, 2015
Threads
21
Messages
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Ok! I'll bite. Why is it apart? I've been an auto mechanic / machinist for 46 years and build engines of all kinds BUT not small engines. I'm not afraid to ask questions about things I'm not familiar with and since I'm new to riding lawn mowers I figured this would be a good place to ask questions. I'm also a believer in synthetic lubricants. Opinions are like belly buttons (everybody has one) and I respect opinions other than my own. There are things in this JD manual that have me shaking my head and wonder if it was written for people who have no idea and will believe anything written down. I appreciate the help with my questions!
Thanks
P.S. I did confirm with JD that the on again and off again decision to use break in oil in their Kawasaki engines is on again. I'll leave the oil in for another couple of hours on the advice from Kawasaki service.
If you look close, you'll see that the gasket on that housing failed. That's why the engine was apart--to replace that gasket. I didn't clean the inside because it didn't need cleaning. I do use "C" rated oils such as Rotella,
 
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