Question about ingition coil with a pick up coil

arch252

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I've worked on quite a few engines now, all kinds and types. Not that I'm any good at it but I have seen a few. I came across a new one for me. I have never worked on and was not familiar with an engine with a pick up coil, attached to an ignition coil that is mounted on the outside of the engine housing, not near the flywheel. Took me a minute to figure out what I was dealing with.

I just bought a Ryobi RYI2000 Inverter / Generator. The engine has no markings, I'm assuming it's about a 2hp 4 stroke, it 106cc, looks Chinese made. It was not running when I purchased it. It will produce spark but it appears that it may be out of time. It has an OHC.

I tried to remove the flywheel to check the key, but I can't even figure out how to get that off. It appears the "flywheel" is just a metal housing over the charging coil. It seems to be threaded onto the shaft and then it looks like a flywheel key was inserted after it was threaded on. If that is the case I have no idea what I'm going to do because the flywheel key is not coming out and you cannot unscrew it with the key in place. That's one issue.

My main question is about this pick-up coil that I'm not familiar with. With a traditional ignition coil the flywheel magnet should pass the ignition coil at TDC on the compression stroke (I think I'm saying that right). There is a magnet on the side of this "flywheel" and I'm wondering if that magnet should be passing the pick-up coil at TDC as well? On this engine the magnet is about 45 degrees before the pick-up coil when it is at TDC. Is this an indication that it is out of time or does that pick-up coil somehow store that charge and send it to the ignition coil at the appropriate time?

With the OHC, can't I adjust the timing by moving the timing chain?
 

arch252

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I just tried to set the timing by moving the chain around the cam. I aligned the flywheel magnet with the pick up coil and aligned the timing mark on the cam and set the timing chain there. Now the intake valve wI'll not allowed the piston to cycle from the exhaust stroke to the intake stroke. The piston stops at TDC on the intake stroke because it can't cLear the intake valve. What am I doing wrong?
 

motoman

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Arch, post all the ID numbers you can here. Although Ryobi has not been a favorite here I had a weed whacker which was a good low end unit. I tried to get down to the crank when it failed and found it difficult . The wackers are meant to be thrown away because a couple parts will cost you half the value. I remember the flywheel was a screw on , LH thread, but don't remember a key. Sounds like that pickup coil should be timed to TDC to me. My wacker showed flywheel /coil contact when it started to die after 10 years. The spark would not jump the redneck tester (old plug gapped out to .100'"), but a similar replacement unit would. Mine was a spark producing coil without a second conventional winds coil . I was able to find an older manual on the little 2 stroker.
 

arch252

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Sorry, it's a RYI2200, not 2000. Other than that I can find no numbers. I'll look again tomorrow. It's gotten ridiculous, not only can you not get most service manuals anymore, now they produce these Chinese engines without any identification markings at all to make sure we can't work on them and have to toss them when they foul up.
 

arch252

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I've checked this with an inline spark tested. It's not starting but when I pull the start rope it's shows good strong spark for the first two pulls then no spark at all. I let it sit for several minutes and it does the same thing, spark on the first two pulls then no spark.

The only thing that makes sense is that the spark is being provided by the capacitor and when that drains there is no more spark.

Any thoughts on what would cause this?
 

motoman

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Arch, It is difficult to say what is in the little coil because it is potted, but it is generally futile to fuss with such an intermittent spark. The coil may indeed contain capacitor(s), and also may rely on other circuitry such as amplifier circuitry (transistors) as in a stereo. Heat is the demon . The little semiconductors produce their own heat and to that is added the heat of the operating system (generator). The semiconductors can only take so much heat and then fail. They may continue to produce intermittent or weak spark, but are not reliable and require replacement. This forum is full of such failures in air cooled equipment. Failures are less common in liquid cooled equipment. IMO

edit: I reread that you also have a ?conventional? winds-type coil so perhaps there is another place to look. If the coil is a transformer type it has two sets of wire windings which are separated. In such a setup the trigger unit is like the points in the 1960's cars which induces a field in the primary . When the trigger turns off a large voltage is produced in the secondary and routed to the plug(s). It would seem maybe you could try another coil with the trigger. I think some have done that in the forum. I think there is a continuity check on the windings to see if they have shorted or opened. I am sure someone here can recite that drill or maybe look it up in an auto repair manual. But if the trigger is bad no go.
 
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DeBe

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These units use a CDI ignition module that also has the indicator LEDs built in. Theres a set of windings in the main stator to supply power to the module. The trigger coil is just that, A coil wound onto a magnet. Theres a small raised section on the fly wheel to trigger it. Also check oil level if its low this can cause intermittent spark. If oil level is ok disconnect oil level switch & try..KIPOR IGNITER MODULE.jpg
 

arch252

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I'm assuming that's the CDI module in the picture. If so, is it possible that the CDI module is faulty? So is that also a start capacitor in that picture? Is that holding the "spark" until the CDI sends it out?
 

DeBe

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There is a bit of info on Ryobi gen on the net I found a circuit of your model. The module is slightly diferent in that the plug is diferent. Also in the circuit P5 & 8 are both black. One is engine ground & the other is Ign pulse generator. There seems to be plenty of parts available.RYOBI.1.jpgRYOBI.3A.jpgRYOBI.5.jpg
 

Nunyabiz

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I just tried to set the timing by moving the chain around the cam. I aligned the flywheel magnet with the pick up coil and aligned the timing mark on the cam and set the timing chain there. Now the intake valve wI'll not allowed the piston to cycle from the exhaust stroke to the intake stroke. The piston stops at TDC on the intake stroke because it can't cLear the intake valve. What am I doing wrong?
Just went though doing a valve job on this unit which entails splitting the case ( smart Chinese design, NOT).

Anyway, there is a timing dot on the overhead cam, it's needs to straight up noon. There's also a timing dot on the bottom timing gear that's on the crank, it needs to be straight up noon (there's a verticle line on the cylinder like the Honda) also. When you moved the timing chain up top you un-alighned these two dots and your piston/valve timing is off and valves are kissing the piston and that's why it won't rotate.

The flywheel has magnets on it so don't bang it hard with a metal hammer. Flywheel is press fit with woodruff key. Get a puller, screw in to the two side bolts and push against the crank snout, with the puller under load gently tap the flywheel with a rubber hammer or a dead blow all around the top radius edge where the front face curves over and it will come off.

Motor design is a funky diagonally split case just like the Honda EU2000i.

Watch this video it'll help you understand the design:
 
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