Odd starting issue Kawasaki FX691V

[LawnWizard]

I have a starting issue that I have not encountered before. 2013 Hustler Fastrak Super Duty. Kawasaki FX691V-CS18-R. Ran perfectly, shut it off, now nothing but the carb solenoid click with key turned to start position. Battery 12.65. All safety switches verified. 12.6V at the starter and 12.5V at the trigger wire with key in start position WHEN DISCONNECTED but almost nothing when trigger wire is connected to the starter. Tried a new starter thinking it is shorted. Same result. Engine will start with trigger wire removed and jumping its post to POS at the starter. I'm confused b/c if it is the starter (both) bad then I wouldn't think it would start by jumping the solenoid. Also, why 12.5V disconnected but nothing when connected to the sol?
I have tried new ignition switch and double checked all safety switches. PTO works with engine running. Gives the normal clunk noise if turning key to start with PTO on.
Thanks for any suggestions and help.
Hugh

 

[StarTech]

post the numerical model number so I can double check for the correct service manual if available.

What you have is a bad connection somewhere in the trigger circuit. You will trace back until until where the voltage is not dropping out under load. Then inspect thing in that area. Can be a wire terminal that badly corroded or has like one strand left completely the circuit off load.

The service manual for Fastrax series does show a starter relay and a starter solenoid yours appears to be wired slightly different as there is solenoid shift start involved.

It shows the voltage for the solenoid goes the starter relay, the lap and pto switches and an fuse.

 

[LawnWizard]

post the numerical model number so I can double check for the correct service manual if available.

What you have is a bad connection somewhere in the trigger circuit. You will trace back until until where the voltage is not dropping out under load. Then inspect thing in that area. Can be a wire terminal that badly corroded or has like one strand left completely the circuit off load.

The service manual for Fastrax series does show a starter relay and a starter solenoid yours appears to be wired slightly different as there is solenoid shift start involved.

It shows the voltage for the solenoid goes the starter relay, the lap and pto switches and an fuse.
View attachment 72842

Thank you. There are 3 relays under the seat. Is that a likely suspect? Relay or the connector to it?

 

[StarTech]

Thank you. There are 3 relays under the seat. Is that a likely suspect? Relay or the connector to it?

Can't answer as specific cause as it can and can not be the source that why point to point voltage tests needs to be to narrow the area of the problem.Yes it is time consuming but it is necessary to find the root cause. Having a helper helps too.

 

[LawnWizard]

Thank you. There are 3 relays under the seat. Is that a likely suspect? Relay or the connector to it?

Can't answer as specific cause as it can and can not be the source that why point to point voltage tests needs to be to narrow the area of the problem.Yes it is time consuming but it is necessary to find the root cause. Having a helper helps too.

Ok, the blue trigger wire goes into a connector and is single wire Red/ black dashes on the other side. Good continuity there. Then it goes into the main harness. At the other end (switch end) of the harness there are a total of 7 Red /bk wires 3 go to one relay, 3 to another relay and 1 to the ignition switch. All have 12.6V with key at start. So it seems to me that wherever they go from 7 wire to 1 is where I'll likely find my issue? I dread cutting the harness open but that seems to be the next logical step correct?

Attached are some additional pics. The blue tape is where I started marking the wires with 12.6V until I figured out all the Red / bk had that. Thanks for your help!
Hugh

 

[StarTech]

Ohming doesn't work when this type the system has to be load tested as an ohm meter can give false readings in this case. All it take is for strand to be intact for such a false reading. This why you need a helper to hold the keyswitch in the start position as you back trace. Or a jump between the B terminal and the S terminal of ignition switch

Otherwords the starter solenoid needs to be connected the lost of voltage is apparent then you back trace looking where the voltage is still present then the problem is likely between the last test point and the current test point. Simple for someone with yrs of experience, not so a for DIYer.

Also is the diagram for the Fastrak SD. Previous posted diagram is incorrect. I didn't catch that Super Duty meant SD. red/blk wires at the relays is your two start relays. Relays are shown in their rest positions. IE the not starting position. And sound someone did a wire splice as the blue to red/blk should have been all red/blk or it a normal Kawasaki thing.

 

[LawnWizard]

I have owned it since new. Wiring harness has never been spliced. Everywhere that I probed for continuity I also check for voltage. The single red / bk coming from the connector has the exact reading on the harness side as the blue trigger wire on the solenoid. 12.6V disconnected and 0.2V trigger attached. I probed back towards the switches until the wire goes into the harness (about 4" from that connector. That was why I asked to confirm that it was time to cut open the harness covering.
Thanks again for your help.

 

[StarTech]

Okay is all three relays operating? With two operating as the keyswitch is put in start position. If so all the red/blk should have 12v present with the starter solenoid trigger wire connect. If present then all is left is the wiring between the last starter relay and the starter solenoid trigger terminal. Then you probably need to open up the harness. or try a temporary jumper wire from relay pin 87 on the final start relay. If the starter solenoid operates then you would know the problem is in the harness.

On finding the last starter relay.


First find the kill relay by pulling one lap bar in with the keyswitch in Run position. This engage and disengage that relay.

Now it is just a matter is figuring which is the primary and which the last relay. Pull one and test by placing the keyswitch in start. If the relay that is not the kill relay that is left clicks. Then the one you pulled is the final starter relay. Otherwise you pulled the primary start relay.

Sorry this how my troubleshooting works for me.

 

[LawnWizard]

The problem was a relay. I can only surmise that I probed them all with the trigger disconnected to verify that they were in fact working. Then with the trigger connected I somehow skipped that one (I think b/c I had it marked as 12.6V there). Thanks for all your help. I didn't grasp the concept of working with no load but not working with a load on it. In my limited experience, if there is 12.6 at the solenoid, the starter either works or its bad. This was odd that I didn't even have the solenoid trying to engage.
Thanks again!

 

[Tiger Small Engine]

The problem was a relay. I can only surmise that I probed them all with the trigger disconnected to verify that they were in fact working. Then with the trigger connected I somehow skipped that one (I think b/c I had it marked as 12.6V there). Thanks for all your help. I didn't grasp the concept of working with no load but not working with a load on it. In my limited experience, if there is 12.6 at the solenoid, the starter either works or its bad. This was odd that I didn't even have the solenoid trying to engage.
Thanks again!

Remember, one simple way to check relays is to label them, then swap them temporarily to test the equipment.