No start issue, anyone else's machine does this?

[tigercat]

I bought my Scag Tigercat machine new. It's two years old.

My machine nearly always when I go start it (mostly cold) I have to open and close the parking brake, or swing the control levers in and out before the starter engages. If I park it ready to go, it doesn't matter, I still have to swing things before it starts.

Like a dummy I ordered the switches thinking I had a bad one, but I played around with it tonight and the switches that I played with are fine. I wiggle them press on them at weird angles and they work.

So I'm thinking it's something in the electrical system. The machine needs to sence a switch opening and closing before it comes alive.

I'm curious if anyone else has the same condition? Thanks

Does mine have a computer on board?:confused2:

 

[Fish]

Post your mower's model/serial numbers, as we;; as your engine's model/spec numbers.

 

[tigercat]

It never let me down, but once or twice I went :confused2: then I was back up running, like nothing ever happened.

Here you go.

Scag Tigercat STC52V-691FX SN G2900197

Kawasaki engine 24HP V twin FX691V SN FX691V-CS11

 

[Mad Mackie]

tigercat,
What is your electrical skill level and do you have a multimeter?
Mad Mackie in CT

 

[Mad Mackie]

tigercat,
On the engine starter mounted solenoid there is a green with white stripe wire, this is the cranking circuit from the machine electrical system and should have battery voltage at it when all the safety circuits, key switch, cranking relay and safety interlock module are working properly and all the electrical connector plugs/terminals are clean and making full contact. The electrical connectors are as follows;
On the underside of the panel with the keyswitch, PTO switch, etc, there are connectors on the keyswitch, PTO switch, and the cranking relay. The yellow wire on the keyswitch is the charging system output from the fuse with the yellow wires. Remove both fuses before attempting to clean these connectors, reconnect all. Inspect and clean the fuses, reinstall them. Test crank the engine.
Disconnect the battery positive before opening and cleaning the remaining connectors which are the safety interlock module, both lever switches, parking brake switch and seat switch. Reconnect all connectors and battery positive cable. Test crank the engine.
Initially you can do some checks on your machine, follow my list.
In the high amperage circuits which include the battery and all connections, check the following;
Disconnect the positive and negative connections on the battery, clean the cable and the battery posts and reconnect. Test crank the engine.
Follow the battery ground cable (black) to where it connects to one of the engine mounting bolts, there may be other ground wires connected, remove bolt, clean, inspect and reinstall on mounting bolt, tighten bolt and nut. Test crank the engine.
Follow the battery positive cable (red) to where it connects to the start solenoid on the engine starter motor, check the terminal for security, bear in mind that this terminal is hot with full battery power, so disconnect the battery positive if you decide to disconnect this terminal to clean it. There is also a small red wire connected to this terminal, this is the supply for all the power to the machine except high amperage. Reconnect anything disconnected and teat crank the engine.
The small red wire on the start solenoid is the source for all machine power, it connects to the machine electrical harness thru the Kawasaki FX engine adapter harness. Disconnect the battery positive cable, find and disconnect the engine to machine connector, inspect and clean the terminals, reconnect, reconnect the positive battery cable. Test crank the engine.
Tomorrow there will be a quiz!!!!! Haha!!!!:laughing:
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[tigercat]

tigercat,
What is your electrical skill level and do you have a multimeter?
Mad Mackie in CT

I'm OK with electrical and I own a multimeter.

AH, by your responses I got a little problem...

I will need to mildly troubleshoot this further when I have time. The machine is not used daily as some of you as this is my " leaf machine " (fall season). I cut the lawn with it sometimes, but this year I was cutting the grass mostly with my sears tractor as I'm trying to finish it off (after I repaired the engine).

I know what it's not, it's not the brake, seat, or control switches. As I said before, I tested 2 out of 4 (with the multimeter) and I could walk the problem to each area. For example, I tried to start it off the machine, it would not start. I got on to the machine and sat down. It would not start. I lifted my butt off the seat and back onto the seat again, it would turn over. I can do the same to the other 3 safety switches.

I may try to leave the ignition switch on for a moment before trying to start it? Perhaps I'm to fast dropping the key into the switch and turning it straight to start...

I will need to read what you wrote later on your other post. Off to work...:thumbsup:

 

[tigercat]

tigercat,
On the engine starter mounted solenoid.......

I finally got inside and fired up the PC. I installed that striper kit on my machine tonight, and I filmed the quick and easy install. It's uploading to youtube as I type this.
While I was at the dealer picking up my new toy, I questioned the sales man and he walked me over to service. My machine needs a doctor visit, but it's under warrantee so they want to look at it. I explained what I checked and how I went about it. The service man said on my machine year several PTO switches were loose inside causing a no start issue. He said to twist the switch from side to side and see if the machine shuts down. Also there was a batch of relays that were junk, so he ordered a new relay for my machine and will check it out next Wendsday. I don't have a trailer for the machine so they said no big deal we will come and get it. The folks down there are super nice.

Thanks mad Mackie, I will save your helpful suggestions in a folder. Tonight I tried to stall the machine by twisting the PTO switch, nope it's OK. What's more strange the Scag was in perfect condition, it started evey time. Yea, just like people when you talk of a doctor, they seem all better for a while....:laughing:

 

[Mad Mackie]

Hi tigercat,
Four years ago I had a similar cranking problem with my Tiger Cub, it turned out to be the cranking relay which I replaced and solved the problem. I carefully cut the old relay open and found that the electromagnet wasn't strong enough to properly close the contacts and as result burned the contacts further aggravating the intermittent cranking problem. I also found some mild corrosion on the connector plug terminals on the back of the keyswitch. When I replaced the engine, I also found a damaged ground ring terminal for the start solenoid on the engine mounting bolt. I replaced all the ring terminals including the battery ground when I installed the new engine. I also replaced this bolt with one slightly longer as I used thicker ring terminals and a flat washer under the locknut which when tightened doesn't disturb the ring terminals. At that time I decided that I would become very familiar with the electrical system on my machine and checked out everything. In my experience with these and other Scag models, I have found that the safety interlock modules are very reliable, but can be damaged by incorrect trouble shooting.
The seat switch can be another problematic item as it is not sealed and dirt can get into it. I replace the seat switch about every two years and I never power or pressure wash my machines.
I still leave the engine running when I get off the machine for a short time even when I blow it off with my back pack blower before putting it back into my trailer. These machines are a bear to move with a non running engine!!!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[tigercat]

The service man said if you try to push it, to turn the valves by 1/2 to 3/4 turn open (that's it) and it will roll easily. If you turn them all the way either then come apart or the machine won't bleed out the pressure (something like that). He said he had one customer open that all the way and wasn't having a good day with his machine.

 

[tigercat]

I was testing stuff tonight on the machine. Ha, I can test some switches without a multi tester or even getting off the seat. It might save a few minutes from physically testing some stuff. It's worth a shot.

First off, no way you can test the seat switch this way, I have tried.

Easy way to test circuit of control arm switches and parking brake.

Maybe an indicator of relay or module not operating properly.

Right now my machine is working properly.
You don't have to sit on the seat to test this. If you do sit on the seat the results are the same.

Set parking brake to on.
Turn key to run. You will hear 2 clicks from module. (if you don't hear 2 clicks the parking brake is down, or maybe relay or module issue. (not sure of the later as the machine is in working condition)
Swing one control arm off neutral, you will hear 1 click as the switch is opened and closed. Test other control arm the same way and listen for a click.
Now drop parking brake and re test control arms. You will not hear the click as before.

So I just tested 3 switches without a multi meter!




Again, not a better way, but it might save a few minutes trouble shooting a dead key issue.:smile: