Gun Background checks

[MowerMike]

Who started confrontation between the rent a cop and the other motorist. Was the other motorist trying to run down the cop with his vehicle, was the cop in fear for his life. If not then the cop committed murder, which is not law abiding.

How many of those 3.2 per 100,000 are committed by concealed carry permit holders. How many are committed by felons, which can't legally own a gun anyway.

The rent a cop has his story, but since the other party is dead and there are no witnesses it's hard to say what really happened. I think the case has not yet been sent to a grand jury.

A lot of homicides are committed by family or acquaintances. Whether these people have carry permits or not is irrelevant. If I'm on the road and you lose your temper and shoot me, it really doesn't matter to me whether you have the gun legally or not. George Zimmerman had a legal carry permit and it ended up with him killing another unarmed man because he wanted to play cop and got himself into a situation that he couldn't handle w/o a gun.

 

[txzrider]

A couple of points... Zimmerman was told to stand down by the police and not to pursue the kid. Right there is where his 1st mistake was, had he come across the kid, and was attacked we would be having a different discussion. As it is now a jury will decide, but in my mind had he followed the instructions he was given, the kid might be alive.

Also to the poster above that used knives as an example of how they are not as efficient at killing and therefore more might have lived at Sandy Hook. It has already been implied that lansing was somehow looking to kill as many as possible, dont you think that if guns had not been avail, then maybe he would have used something else? a sword, a bomb of something? Laws do not slow down criminals who want to have guns, they find a way. Heck he could have driven his car into the school. Would you then ban cars? Would better mental health sources solve it? Lansing was obviously sick, did his Mom do all she could to stop him, who knows. After 9/11 my company invested in special revolving doors on all entrances into the building. You can exit easily, but you have to have a code and id card to get in. Would that have protected the school? I agree something needs to be done, but taking away the guns of law abiding citizens is not it.

 

[MowerMike]

A couple of points... Zimmerman was told to stand down by the police and not to pursue the kid. Right there is where his 1st mistake was, had he come across the kid, and was attacked we would be having a different discussion. As it is now a jury will decide, but in my mind had he followed the instructions he was given, the kid might be alive.

Also to the poster above that used knives as an example of how they are not as efficient at killing and therefore more might have lived at Sandy Hook. It has already been implied that lansing was somehow looking to kill as many as possible, don't you think that if guns had not been avail, then maybe he would have used something else? a sword, a bomb of something? Laws do not slow down criminals who want to have guns, they find a way. Heck he could have driven his car into the school. Would you then ban cars? Would better mental health sources solve it? Lansing was obviously sick, did his Mom do all she could to stop him, who knows. After 9/11 my company invested in special revolving doors on all entrances into the building. You can exit easily, but you have to have a code and id card to get in. Would that have protected the school? I agree something needs to be done, but taking away the guns of law abiding citizens is not it.

The point is that Zimmerman had and carried a gun legally, was not a convicted felon, was not mentally deranged etc. He was presumably rational, competent and by all accounts a responsible gun owner who was serving his community as a citizen's watch person. Yet he somehow got a sense of boldness and power from that weapon, which led him to ignore the police instructions, which ended up with him unnecessarily killing another young human being who might otherwise still be alive. There is a citizen's watch where I live too, but we are unarmed and simply observe and report. The city gives us a police car to drive with a placard on the side, and we can used the police radio to alert them of any suspicious activity. The crime rate in my neighborhood is extremely low, and violent crime is virtually nonexistent.

I've stated very clearly that I'm not against legal private gun ownership, provided the guns are kept on that person's private property. Heck, a lady friend of mine who lives alone has a gun for her protection, but it never leaves the premises and is locked in a small safe when she's gone.

As to the argument that the Sandy Hook nutjob could have used other means, I reject that as ridiculous if you look at the facts. He was a wimpy little guy who would have been stopped short very quickly had he used knives or swords, and probably would not be any fatalities. Certainly he would never have reached any of the children, before one of the adults would have stopped him. A bomb ? Really ? Where was he going to get a bomb ? Your local friendly bomb store ? A car ? Yeah, right. An M1 Abrams tank, maybe. But a car ? C'mon. And guns are designed with the specific purpose to kill. Cars are designed for transportation and are not meant nor are they particularly efficient weapons. So this whole silly argument that anything can be used as a weapon, like should we ban rocks because rocks can be used as weapons is extreme sophism at best.

 

[djdicetn]

The point is that Zimmerman had and carried a gun legally, was not a convicted felon, was not mentally deranged etc. He was presumably rational, competent and by all accounts a responsible gun owner who was serving his community as a citizen's watch person. Yet he somehow got a sense of boldness and power from that weapon, which led him to ignore the police instructions, which ended up with him unnecessarily killing another young human being who might otherwise still be alive. There is a citizen's watch where I live too, but we are unarmed and simply observe and report. The city gives us a police car to drive with a placard on the side, and we can used the police radio to alert them of any suspicious activity. The crime rate in my neighborhood is extremely low, and violent crime is virtually nonexistent.

I've stated very clearly that I'm not against legal private gun ownership, provided the guns are kept on that person's private property. Heck, a lady friend of mine who lives alone has a gun for her protection, but it never leaves the premises and is locked in a small safe when she's gone.

As to the argument that the Sandy Hook nutjob could have used other means, I reject that as ridiculous if you look at the facts. He was a wimpy little guy who would have been stopped short very quickly had he used knives or swords, and probably would not be any fatalities. Certainly he would never have reached any of the children, before one of the adults would have stopped him. A bomb ? Really ? Where was he going to get a bomb ? Your local friendly bomb store ? A car ? Yeah, right. An M1 Abrams tank, maybe. But a car ? C'mon. And guns are designed with the specific purpose to kill. Cars are designed for transportation and are not meant nor are they particularly efficient weapons. So this whole silly argument that anything can be used as a weapon, like should we ban rocks because rocks can be used as weapons is extreme sophism at best.

I voted yes, simply because I believe a background check will "slow down" the ability of a criminally-inclined(with that type of background) person with the intent of using said weapon to purport a future crime. I agree with most that this will not prevent that person from obtaining one illegally, but they just can't walk into a Bass Pro Shop, buy a gun, go out in the parking lot and load it and go back in and hold up the Bass Pro Shop cashiers. That's just making it way too easy!!! And indeed, background checks are not always a fair thing since some people who have absolutely no crimiinal intent, but have something in their background that is not allowed, cannot own a gun(I can't seem to equate DUI with what a person, even if intoxicated, is capable of doing with a gun). All of the recent/past examples of random shootings is NOT, in my opinion, going to be stopped by the measures currently being considered by the government for tighter gun restrictions. We live in a violent world(ever since Cain killed Able) and nothing....I repeat nothing is going to change that. My inclinations are to agree with the statement above by user MowerMike that law-abiding citizens should be allowed to legally own and keep a gun on their private property(home, RV, boat, automobile) but I do not agree that they should be able to carry that gun in public on their person. My wife "wanted" a handgun for her birthday for our protection, took the gun safety course, passed the background check, was issued a carry permit and purchased a handgun. That gun only goes in the "private properies" I mentioned previously for our protection. She(and I) are both "intimidated AND nervous", when we are sitting in a restaurant and a person(who apparently is not a police officer) comes in with a handgun displayed on their hip. That may have been the way that things were in the days of Wyatt Earp, but it is not the right thing anymore for the society that we live in. If a robber comes into that restaurant and the guy eating there that is carrying decides to intervene...innocent people are likely to be shot in the crossfire. Armed "security guards" in all of the schools....I don't know, with the recent incidents maybe but I'm glad it wasn't like that when I went to school.

 

[Ric]

I voted yes, simply because I believe a background check will "slow down" the ability of a criminally-inclined(with that type of background) person with the intent of using said weapon to purport a future crime. I agree with most that this will not prevent that person from obtaining one illegally, but they just can't walk into a Bass Pro Shop, buy a gun, go out in the parking lot and load it and go back in and hold up the Bass Pro Shop cashiers. That's just making it way too easy!!! And indeed, background checks are not always a fair thing since some people who have absolutely no crimiinal intent, but have something in their background that is not allowed, cannot own a gun(I can't seem to equate DUI with what a person, even if intoxicated, is capable of doing with a gun). All of the recent/past examples of random shootings is NOT, in my opinion, going to be stopped by the measures currently being considered by the government for tighter gun restrictions. We live in a violent world(ever since Cain killed Able) and nothing....I repeat nothing is going to change that. My inclinations are to agree with the statement above by user MowerMike that law-abiding citizens should be allowed to legally own and keep a gun on their private property(home, RV, boat, automobile) but I do not agree that they should be able to carry that gun in public on their person. My wife "wanted" a handgun for her birthday for our protection, took the gun safety course, passed the background check, was issued a carry permit and purchased a handgun. That gun only goes in the "private properies" I mentioned previously for our protection. She(and I) are both "intimidated AND nervous", when we are sitting in a restaurant and a person(who apparently is not a police officer) comes in with a handgun displayed on their hip. That may have been the way that things were in the days of Wyatt Earp, but it is not the right thing anymore for the society that we live in. If a robber comes into that restaurant and the guy eating there that is carrying decides to intervene...innocent people are likely to be shot in the crossfire. Armed "security guards" in all of the schools....I don't know, with the recent incidents maybe but I'm glad it wasn't like that when I went to school.

The reason I vote no is because I think a background check is ridiculous. It will not stop a criminal period, it's not going to slow down the ability of a criminally-inclined person with the intent of using said weapon. It will not stop things like what happened in Conn. You talk about Armed "security guards" in all of the schools, there has been Armed officers on school grounds since 1976 and they actually live on the grounds.

 

[djdicetn]

The reason I vote no is because I think a background check is ridiculous. It will not stop a criminal period, it's not going to slow down the ability of a criminally-inclined person with the intent of using said weapon. It will not stop things like what happened in Conn. You talk about Armed "security guards" in all of the schools, there has been Armed officers on school grounds since 1976 and they actually live on the grounds.

Well I guess, using my Bass Pro Shop scenario, the guy can either rob them today....or get the gun illegally and rob it next week. But regardless, if he's gonna rob it, he's gonna rob it. What do you think about packing in public??? I can't see this country reverse-evolving to the Wild West. ANd what really gets me is the "different" laws from state to state. I think if there are going to be ANY gun reglations, they should be at the national level. For instance, my wife has a carry permit issued in Tennessee. When we traveled to Maine there were many states we camped in our RV in where we were "breaking their state laws" by having our handgun. Infact, there was a recent incident whaere a lady was visiting the 9-1-1 site in New York, realized she had her handgun in her purse with her(and had a carry permit in the state she lived in), but she sought out the authorities thinking she could just leave her gun with them and pick it back up.....and they threw her in jail!!!!Just how much sense does that make???????

 

[midnite rider]

Unfortunately we live in a violent world. This will not change so at sometime you have to decide whether you want to be able to protect your family or be unable to resist someone inflicting harm to others and you. Usually by the time the police arrive it is to late. I choose to be able to meet deadly force with deadly force wherever I am.
The following true story happened a few years ago very close to my home here in Kennesaw. My daughter was passed by the victims car that day and witnessed the carjacker and victim fighting in the car as they sped past her car to the subsequent wreck and shooting of the carjacker. A private citizen, Shawn Roberts, thank God, was packing that day outside of his home and most certainly saved many more lives. He was found to have acted within the laws of my state. We now have the Kimberly Boyd bridge across Lake Acworth, to commemorate the victim. It was the last bridge she crossed while being carjacked on that fateful day. The carjacker had a stolen gun and the laws against convicted felons obtaining them obviously did no good. There are many other cases as such I could name that most people never hear about. I have a feeling of security when I see responsible citizens wearing for all the world to see and a lot more tote that you do not see. Please read the following and make your own decision:

Fatal carjacking was a nightmare in broad daylight
By MICHAEL PEARSON, PAUL KAPLAN, DON PLUMMER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/18/05
Through her office window, Becky Porter watched as the white Toyota SUV swerved across Cobb Parkway and crashed into a concrete truck.
Porter remembers a blur of action as she ran outside.
The driver jumped out. Porter heard three shots, then witnessed a scene that brings tears to her eyes.
"The driver ... had a gun in his hand, and the guy who was chasing him shot him," Porter said. "Then he hit his knees and started crying, because he turned around and saw the lady in the car was dead. I heard him say, 'Oh God.' "
The crime was as random as one could imagine.
A stranger carjacks a woman in broad daylight. There's a crash. The woman dies. Her abductor is shot and killed not by police but by an armed passer-by who gave chase in his truck.
That man, Shawn T. Roberts, has emerged as a hero for trying to help 30-year-old Kimberly Boyd and for saving other lives that police say might have been taken had the carjacker escaped.
"Scores of people were coming up to him and thanking him for what he did," said Scott Cannon, a friend of the Boyds who attended Kimberly's funeral Friday.
Roberts was among those who came to pay respects.
"He wanted everyone to know she didn't go down without a fight," said Brandon Henderson, a friend of the Boyds' who spoke to Roberts during the service.
"He said, 'Just so you all know, Kim was whipping his *** on the side of the road before he grabbed her and threw her in the car.'"
Although police say Roberts acted courageously, such acts have not always met with official approval. Cobb County District Attorney Pat Head and the grand jury will have the final word on Roberts' legal fate.
But this much is certain: In a matter of moments, in an act of violence and happenstance, three disparate lives became intertwined on that highway last Monday morning.
Unlikely carjack site
Kimberly Boyd owned a truck rental company in Acworth, a Cobb County community where the Appalachian Mountains yield to the granite Piedmont.
Boyd's business is in a strip mall, with a Big Lots, a Waffle House and several other businesses one of the last places you might notice someone lurking.
But Brian O'Neil Clark, a 25-year-old felon who had been released from prison three months earlier, was there.
That morning, Boyd left her home in Paulding County before 8 a.m. She dropped her 5-year-old son, Connor, at school and drove to her office. Police believe she was abducted by Clark in the parking lot.
At 9:25 that morning, Boyd used her ATM card to withdraw money outside a Wachovia bank about 5 miles away.
"We speculate that she went to that area hoping someone would see her and become suspicious," said Kevin Flynn, a homicide lieutenant with the Cobb County Police Department. "This indicates she was cool-headed and doing everything she could to survive because there were other banks closer to where she was abducted."
Roberts first saw Boyd and Clark about 1 1/2 miles south of the bank. Clark hit Boyd with his fist and a gun as the two struggled along Cobb Parkway, just past a bridge over Allatoona Reservoir.
At some point, Clark shot Boyd.
He then shoved her into the back seat of the SUV and sped away. As Boyd's SUV careened down Cobb Parkway, Roberts gave chase.
Then came the crash.
At Lake Acworth Drive, about a half-mile from where Roberts saw Boyd and Clark fighting, a cement truck moving northbound on Cobb Parkway crashed into the SUV as Clark tried to make a sharp left turn off the highway.
The accident's impact killed Boyd.
Clark emerged from the crumpled SUV and started running toward a gas station.
As Roberts approached, Clark raised his gun.
That's when Porter heard the shots from outside her office at Atlanta Tile Specialists.
Clark fell in a heap, dead.
Boyd, still inside her SUV, was already gone.
At the Cobb County 911 center, the call boards lit up "like a Christmas tree," Flynn said.
The first caller told an operator there had been a bad accident and someone had been shot.
Family came first
Kimberly Boyd put her children and her husband above everything else, including her business.
She used to take Connor and her 2-year-old daughter, Chloe, to work with her so she could spend time with them throughout the day.
"There were toys all over the floor of her store," said Janeice Confer, who manages a truck rental franchise nearby. "She was a very devoted mother."
She spent two years at the University of Georgia in the mid-1990s. Mike Boyd, eight years her senior, went to college in Tennessee.
"The only thing I ever heard those two argue about was Georgia-Tennessee," Henderson, a friend of the Boyds', said with a chuckle. "Kim would call me for stats ?Quick, how many points did Georgia score off Tennessee last year?' "
The couple recently got custody of Mike's 13-year-old son, Nathan, from a previous marriage, and Kimberly told her friends she didn't think she could raise all three children while running a business.
So she was looking for someone to buy her out.
But Monday, she had a customer coming in at 8:30 a.m. She had to make sure the truck was ready to be picked up.
Chloe had a cold, so Mike stayed home.
Kids first, work second.
"It was a family that had everything together," said Scott Cannon, who coached Nathan's baseball team in Woodstock.
The day after his mother was abducted and killed, Connor went to his room and drew a picture. He asked his dad if his mother would ever see it.
"Yes," Michael Boyd told his son.
"She'll love the picture, and she'll be with you forever."
The drawing was in Kimberly's casket Friday when she was buried.
It's a picture of a teddy bear, with the words "I LOVE YOU MOMMY."
Hailed as a hero
Shawn T. Roberts lives in the sprawling Bentwater subdivision in Paulding County. It's only about a mile from the Boyds' home, but it doesn't appear as if the two had ever met.
Roberts, 31, owns a home theater and burglar alarm company and carried a licensed pistol.
Before he stopped speaking publicly about the incident, he said he had no choice, that had he not acted, more people could have been harmed.
And that's how his actions are being seen, in metro Atlanta and across the country.
Web sites and blogs are filled with postings crediting Roberts for his fast thinking and for trying to save lives.
"This guy probably saved another 25+ victims ..." a poster with the screen name "Taurus" said on a message board at www.packing.org, a Web site for advocates of concealed-carry laws. "Shawn Roberts is a hero in my book."
Police and community leaders seem to agree.
"You drive by a man beating a woman on the side of the road, you have to do something," said Deanne Bonner, president of the Cobb County chapter of the NAACP.
Said Flynn, the homicide lieutenant: "I want to stress that ... we have found no violations of Georgia law. That being said, the district attorney will make the final decision."
Although Roberts knew nothing about Clark's background at the time of the shooting, police seem to think there's a good chance others might have been hurt had Roberts done nothing.
In April 2002, Clark was arrested in Illinois and brought back to Georgia to face child molestation, statutory rape and burglary charges in Cobb County, where he received an 18-month sentence, jail records show.
In May 2004, Clark was charged in Cherokee County for first-degree forgery. He served a year in state prison and was released June 13.
Police also suspect Clark is responsible for a rape, carjacking and robbery in Acworth on Sept. 6.
In that case, police believe Clark beat and raped a woman, then forced her to drive to a nearby bank so he could withdraw money from the bank's ATM.
During that attack, Clark stole a gun from the woman's home, police said.
That gun was finally found Monday near Clark's body after he was shot.

 

[BKBrown]

Well I guess, using my Bass Pro Shop scenario, the guy can either rob them today....or get the gun illegally and rob it next week. But regardless, if he's gonna rob it, he's gonna rob it. What do you think about packing in public??? I can't see this country reverse-evolving to the Wild West. ANd what really gets me is the "different" laws from state to state. I think if there are going to be ANY gun reglations, they should be at the national level. For instance, my wife has a carry permit issued in Tennessee. When we traveled to Maine there were many states we camped in our RV in where we were "breaking their state laws" by having our handgun. Infact, there was a recent incident whaere a lady was visiting the 9-1-1 site in New York, realized she had her handgun in her purse with her(and had a carry permit in the state she lived in), but she sought out the authorities thinking she could just leave her gun with them and pick it back up.....and they threw her in jail!!!!Just how much sense does that make???????

It makes NO sense for a law abiding citizen who has a legal carry permit from their state to be jailed in any other state just for having the firearm.
At vary least, it should be legal to transport the firearm in every state if the permit is valid in the home state.

Just a note and not a snide comment, but it is 9-11 (date) not 9-1-1 (emergency number).

 

[djdicetn]

It makes NO sense for a law abiding citizen who has a legal carry permit from their state to be jailed in any other state just for having the firearm.
At vary least, it should be legal to transport the firearm in every state if the permit is valid in the home state.

Just a note and not a snide comment, but it is 9-11 (date) not 9-1-1 (emergency number).

BKBrown,

Yeah...as explained to me by my father-in-law, when we traveled to Maine from TN with our handgun in our "closed/unoccupied" travel trailer we broke the law in almost half the states we passed through(especially New York, which does not recognize any other state's carry permit). Much less the states we stayed in an RV park in where we were in the travel trailer with a loaded handgun and only had a TN carry permit. That stinks!!!!!

P.S.
My apologies for the 9-11 typo...didn't realize it til you pointed it out.

 

[txzrider]

The point is that Zimmerman had and carried a gun legally, was not a convicted felon, was not mentally deranged etc. He was presumably rational, competent and by all accounts a responsible gun owner who was serving his community as a citizen's watch person. Yet he somehow got a sense of boldness and power from that weapon, which led him to ignore the police instructions, which ended up with him unnecessarily killing another young human being who might otherwise still be alive. There is a citizen's watch where I live too, but we are unarmed and simply observe and report. The city gives us a police car to drive with a placard on the side, and we can used the police radio to alert them of any suspicious activity. The crime rate in my neighborhood is extremely low, and violent crime is virtually nonexistent.

I've stated very clearly that I'm not against legal private gun ownership, provided the guns are kept on that person's private property. Heck, a lady friend of mine who lives alone has a gun for her protection, but it never leaves the premises and is locked in a small safe when she's gone.

As to the argument that the Sandy Hook nutjob could have used other means, I reject that as ridiculous if you look at the facts. He was a wimpy little guy who would have been stopped short very quickly had he used knives or swords, and probably would not be any fatalities. Certainly he would never have reached any of the children, before one of the adults would have stopped him. A bomb ? Really ? Where was he going to get a bomb ? Your local friendly bomb store ? A car ? Yeah, right. An M1 Abrams tank, maybe. But a car ? C'mon. And guns are designed with the specific purpose to kill. Cars are designed for transportation and are not meant nor are they particularly efficient weapons. So this whole silly argument that anything can be used as a weapon, like should we ban rocks because rocks can be used as weapons is extreme sophism at best.

As to you question regarding my comment that if they really want to kill a lot of people they could use a bomb, exhibit a Boston is in the news for why... oh yes bombs! This is tragic. Should we outlaw bombs? Oh wait we have!! NBC is reporting(read today in usa today) that an assault rifle was not used in Sandy Hook.