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Flywheel remove: black or chrome impact sockets?

#1

C

crazyoldtractor

I want to remove the flywheel from a lawn tractor and I have seen people say that you should use "black impact" sockets and not chrome ones. Will I break the chrome socket? Are the black ones stronger? Whats the difference between black and chrome sockets?


#2

RobertBrown

RobertBrown

crazyoldtractor said:
I want to remove the flywheel from a lawn tractor and I have seen people say that you should use "black impact" sockets and not chrome ones. Will I break the chrome socket? Are the black ones stronger? Whats the difference between black and chrome sockets?
Click to expand...
Impact sockets are stronger than regular sockets. If you have impact sockets use them with an impact wrench. If you don't have an impact socket you can use a regular socket on a fly wheel, it might break but I doubt it.
It depends on the quality of the socket, if it splits it on your flywheel removal than it was not that good to begin with and cheap sockets are cheap to replace.

Try It!


#3

Ric

Ric

Standard sockets are typically constructed of polished Chrome Vanadium steel and come in different grades. Manufacturers construct impact sockets of Hot Forged Chrome Vanadium steel with a significantly thicker socket wall and that's why there dark in color.
The heat treatment and thicker socket wall provides additional socket strength to the tool to prevent cracks from forming in the thinnest areas of the socket wall. Can you break a regular socket using it on an impact driver the answer would be yes but a lot would depend on the grade of socket being used and the setting on the impact driver. You will also notice that most regular sockets are twelve sided and if used with a impact driver could cause you too strip the nut or bolt you're trying to remove while impact sockets are six sided for a more secure fit so added torque and be applied and prevent striping.



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#4

davbell22602

davbell22602

I use craftsman chrome sockets on impact tools and havent broke one yet removing a flywheel nut. Same thing goes for duralast chrome sockets too.


#5

reynoldston

reynoldston

I don't know what the material difference is in the two sockets but I have used the two different sockets for the last 50 years. Now I am talking about top quality snap-on sockets. I have found when you use a chrome socket in a impact it just stretches it out of shape and you can tell it was used as such making it have a short life. When you use a impact socket (black) on a long breaker bar it will break a lot faster then a chrome socket. So I have learned through years of hard use chrome sockets for hand wrenches and black impact sockets for impact wrenches for a long socket life. And yes I will exchange the two yet in a pinch. I am also talking about 6 point sockets in both types.


#6

L

LandN

strongest set-up is a high quality short length 6 pt.impact socket directly on impact gun or breaker bar.


#7

reynoldston

reynoldston

LandN said:
strongest set-up is a high quality short length 6 pt.impact socket directly on impact gun or breaker bar.
Click to expand...

Impact socket on a breaker bar, sounds good to me, just the rules in my tool box are different. Impact socket for impact wrench only or use your own tools.


#8

davbell22602

davbell22602

I'm half tempted to go impact sockets on everthing. Meaning using impact sockets on ratchets too.


#9

L

LandN

davbell22602 said:
I'm half tempted to go impact sockets on everthing. Meaning using impact sockets on ratchets too.
Click to expand...

it's also good to have thin walls too,sometimes nuts and bolts are in some tight spots.


#10

reynoldston

reynoldston

davbell22602 said:
I'm half tempted to go impact sockets on everthing. Meaning using impact sockets on ratchets too.
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with that, you do what you want with your tools. What I said in my post was with a long breaker bar. You also have to use your head a little. You don't put a 7/16 deep socket on the end of a three foot breaker bar 3/8 drive and tuque it over 400 foot lbs. I also said in a pinch I will mix them. High quality tools are very expensive so I try very hard not to miss use them. Sockets aren't the only tools I have rules on also.


#11

M

Mad Mackie

I recommend using a six point socket if you use chrome ones with an impact wrench. I have a mix of SnapOn and Craftsman sockets. Had to take a slight turn with a lathe on a particular size black socket to reduce it's O/D to fit the application after breaking several chrome sockets on the same job.
I have found more often than I would like where the black sockets are too big in O/D and not deep enough. I've still got some sockets that are 3/4" and 1" drive both chrome and black from my truck repair days!!!
You gotta be carefull with pullers, you can brake the bolts and damage crankshafts if you don't use the pressing screw center piece!!
Mad Mackie retired mech in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#12

Ric

Ric

You should never use standard sockets with an impact wrench because an impact wrench uses a series of internal hammers to beat on a bolt head to loosen it, as opposed to the steady torque of a wrench. The hammering effect of the impact wrench causes heat and microscopic cracks in a standard socket's metal which can lead to failure when you use a standard socket.


#13

M

Mad Mackie

In an ideal world, yes, but in the real world stuff happens. With all the junk tools made in Asia that are circulating around, I've been told that they brake without the use of an impact wrench. During my over 50 years of wrenching I've had to get creative with tools to get the job done.
There are lots of junk impact tools around also, neighbor had one that the shaft broke while using a chrome socket to remove the rear wheels on one of his tractors.


#14

F

fastback

Yes, to all of the above. However, I would like to add that I have a rather large assortment of Craftsman sockets and some date back 70 plus years. The older sockets have thinner walls and tend to fit in tight areas better. I have noticed that the sockets from the late 60's have side walls just a bit thicker. The newest are even thicker, I'm sure that they are from across the pond. In my opinion, the older thin walls are better than the newer sockets by leaps and bounds. I am very protective of these older tools and yes I also use chrome sockets with my air tools, but I am very selective. I use the newer expendable 6 point sockets. I do have a selection of impact sockets both 3/8 amd 1/2 inch, but sometimes they are just too bulky.

Just another opinion...


#15

M

Mad Mackie

Well said fastback. I spent 24 years in the military dealing with very mixed brands of tools that comprised the tool box issued to us. Frequently I had to supplement with quality privately purchased tools to do the job. I recall issued combination wrenches that had a box end so thick that they looked like plastic toy tools from Walmart. As aircraft mechs would get together and swap tools to get more same brand named sets before we had to mark the tools to identify to whom they were issued. As time passed we were finally issued complete sets of SnapOn tools including nice roller cabinets. The tools had to be shadowed in which meant using 1/2" thick foam draw liner and mark and cut the foam to fit each tool. We also had to use double sided tape to keep the foam in place in the draws. A quick look in the draws would show if tools were missing. Absolutely no loose tools allowed, not an easy thing to comply with. Not a good thing to leave tools in an aircraft!!!
As a mech in civilian life, I had to have a shop set, mobile set in my truck, and my home tools. My wife would always give me grief when I would give her the tool receipts when she would do our taxes. I still have the receipts from the 60s to now, if I had that money now I could buy myself a new Corvette!!!!
Mad Mackie in CT


#16

F

fastback

Well if I had the choice, equal value of course, I would go for the tools. The tools will last a lifetime. A corvette is hard to get in and out of as you age:laughing:


#17

B

benski

Mad Mackie said:
Well said fastback. I spent 24 years in the military dealing with very mixed brands of tools that comprised the tool box issued to us. Frequently I had to supplement with quality privately purchased tools to do the job. I recall issued combination wrenches that had a box end so thick that they looked like plastic toy tools from Walmart. As aircraft mechs would get together and swap tools to get more same brand named sets before we had to mark the tools to identify to whom they were issued. As time passed we were finally issued complete sets of SnapOn tools including nice roller cabinets. The tools had to be shadowed in which meant using 1/2" thick foam draw liner and mark and cut the foam to fit each tool. We also had to use double sided tape to keep the foam in place in the draws. A quick look in the draws would show if tools were missing. Absolutely no loose tools allowed, not an easy thing to comply with. Not a good thing to leave tools in an aircraft!!!
As a mech in civilian life, I had to have a shop set, mobile set in my truck, and my home tools. My wife would always give me grief when I would give her the tool receipts when she would do our taxes. I still have the receipts from the 60s to now, if I had that money now I could buy myself a new Corvette!!!!
Mad Mackie in CT
Click to expand...
I'll bet you could easily buy a new Corvette with the money you've spent on tools (especially good tools:eek:!)

For me, black,six point (of course) impact sockets are the number one choice for doing impact work. They are built for the job, and typically won't break. The chroming process causes a phenomenon known as hydrogen embrittlement, which, along with the thinner metal used in regular chrome sockets, makes them more susceptible to cracking and splitting. There are times though, when all else fails, I'll take my hapless MATCO chrome socket and put it on the end of my "rattle gun"...:ashamed::frown:


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