Cub Cadet 2135 - Battery light on console comes on when mower deck engaged

[greynold99]

UPDATE Cub Cadet 2135 - Battery light on console comes on when mower deck engaged

After reading yesterday's posts to my question and re-reading my own remarks, I couldn't get over the fact that the BATT Charge light would go OFF when running on Level ground with PTO engaged and occasionally flicker ON/OFF, going to Full ON when a load was placed on the engine climbing a hill - Still sounded like a classic 'loose electrical connection' to me...
Last night before putting on the trickle charger, I reseated the wire connector going to the PTO Switch on the Console underside and I think I've found both the Voltage Sensor and Voltage Relay components I had asked about as well - they're both right there.
The Voltage Sensor is taped to the wiring harness close to the PTO Switch and the Voltage Relay is screwed to the Cub's frame with another electrical connector off the wiring harness to it.

Anyway, after push mowing for an hour, I jumped on to see what the Cub would do - and Voila - No BATT Charge light. I mowed for another hour and about that time the Cub was getting pretty hot but still no BATT Charge light.
However, there's still a problem - I was about to take the Cub in for the night and thought I would mow one more area - but when I engaged the PTO, NOTHING, except I could make out an 'electrical buzzing' - Can't tell you where it was coming from because of the engine noise. But the 2 or 3 times I tried to engage the PTO I would hear it. When I got it near the garage where I store the tractor, I tried one more thing - I lowered the throttle down to less than half-way - Engaged the PTO Switch - heard a little of the 'electrical buzzing' and then the mower deck engaged...

Any ideas on What's going on with the PTO Switch or the PTO?
Thanks,
greynold99

 

[greynold99]

Question for Mechanic Mark...

Mechanic Mark,
I want to mention how much I've appreciated your helpful links to the Cub 2135 troubleshooting guides.
Though, the last link did not contain the 'Appendices' referenced in the Troubleshooting the PTO section 5.8; I think it was Appendix D and it did not appear to be included with the document and the document did not contain a weblink to the Appendices.
Could I impose on you one more time to post that link for me?

I also wanted to ask your opinion about some of the options we've been discussing for 'bypassing' the various Safety Switches on the Cub 2135.
Your post replies on Cubs seems to indicate that you are very knowledgeable, possibly professional in your experiences with Cubs and I just wanted to ask your opinion about: Replacing the PTO Switch with an after-marked Push/Pull Switch, and bypassing the Seat, Reverse and Brake Safety switches.
I'm not wanting to get any arguments started but just wondered what your thoughts are in regards to this as I've come across some posts indicating some problems when these bypass wiring jobs are poorly done.
Thanks,
greynold99

 

[greynold99]

Update to the last update to Packardv8

To Packardv8, I did some quick searches on the forum and discovered that you actually had dealt with almost everything we're talking about last Summer. From those I had a couple of questions...

1. In regards to the wiring at the PTO electrical connection itself, since the BLUE wire always has +12v to it - Could you have just wired an appropriately amp-rated Toggle switch to the Ground-side wire and used that control the PTO?
2. When you wired in the Heavy Duty Push/Pull switch - How did you bypass the Reverse safety relay wiring? Were you able to isolate the HD Push/Pull Switch to one wire (+12vdc) off the connector that connects to the OEM PTO Switch or was some additional jumper wiring required to bypass the (Reverse) Voltage Relay?
Thanks,
greynold99

 

[greynold99]

Update to Mechanic Mark and last update

Mechanic Mark,
I found I actually had the Appendix I requested the link for - I must've found it last Wednesday and downloaded it... probably off of one of your forum posts here.
Sorry just didn't remember but still would like to hear your opinions on the questions about the Cub's safety wiring and bypassing those.
Thanks,
greynold99

 

[motoman]

The severed wire problem: Two black wires from the alternator connect thru a 2 pin connector to the 2 yellow ones to the voltage regulator. One black wire was hanging loose. The nylon, 2 piece connector was badly discolored and very brittle. Eventually I just crushed it like a walnut to get at the pins which were all 4 badly corroded and discolored from 10 years of vibe/heat. After fussing I just cut back to slightly better stranded wire on all four and hard soldered. Despite cleaning, the solder required fluxing before the solder joints would take (fluxing within the solder itself). The ammeter now swings smoothly into charge of over 10 amps on start up. It had been only charging about 5 amps for a very long time and was jerky. My take is corroded and broken strands/pins caused an unwanted resistance and was dropping voltage there instead of passing current to the battery. Wish your problem was as simple. Classic example of somewhat loose wire bundle not well tied to engine and free to whip about. (No No)

 

[greynold99]

Motoman,
Glad to hear you got your electrical problem fixed. If you re-read one of my earlier updates, my original problem with the BATT Charge Warning light coming ON was simple to fix - just reseated the plastic electrical PTO Switch connection from Console underside where you have the PTO Pull Out/Push In switch and ignition key cylinder... On my Cub there's multiple wires in this electrical connector, likely linked to the so called 'Safety Shutdown of the PTO' if you try to go in Reverse while mowing deck engaged or getting off the seat while the engine is running (This kills the engine as well unless the Brake is set in Park)... So the wiring itself is kind of complicated - when you consider that all you wanted was a lawnmowing tractor...
Packardv8 has indicated the safety and wiring components were not built with sufficiently 'heavy duty' or Industrial Grade components to last and I suppose that's just part of 'Planned Obsolescence'... Unfortunately, I can't wrap my head around the fact - Why would you buy another of the same lawn tractor brand if it doesn't hold up more than 5 or 10 years depending on whether you're using this lawn tractor daily or weekly.

There does appear to be another issue developing, probbably involving one of these Safety wiring components because after mowing for an hour or so, the PTO Switch will tend to at first, engage the actual PTO Drive 'more slowly' when Pulling-Out to engage and eventually after several Pull-Out/Push-In cycles will NOT engage the PTO Drive at all - And all you hear is slight 'electrical buzzing' from somewhere - likely the Voltage Relay also under the Console, which I've come to understand tends to wear-out due to the Amperage required to power the PTO Drive itself when engaging the PTO Switch.

I'm still waiting for the Cub Experts here to pass along how to go about removing some or all of the PTO Safety Interlocks built in - maybe starting with the Seat Safety switch first, since that from my perspective would be the simplest to bypass. From what I've read it sounds like it's normally CLOSED circuit when no one is sitting on the Cub seat (Engine/PTO won't Start or continue to RUN in this situation) and that someone sitting on the tractor seat causes the Seat Switch to be OPEN circuit for normal Engine/PTO running operation.

Keep a watch on this post, I'm sure the updates will get interesting.
greynold99

 

[greynold99]

Motoman,
Glad to hear you got your electrical problem fixed. If you re-read one of my earlier updates, my original problem with the BATT Charge Warning light coming ON was simple to fix - just reseated the plastic electrical PTO Switch connection from Console underside where you have the PTO Pull Out/Push In switch and ignition key cylinder... On my Cub there's multiple wires in this electrical connector, likely linked to the so called 'Safety Shutdown of the PTO' if you try to go in Reverse while mowing deck engaged or getting off the seat while the engine is running (This kills the engine as well unless the Brake is set in Park)... So the wiring itself is kind of complicated - when you consider that all you wanted was a lawnmowing tractor...
Packardv8 has indicated the safety and wiring components were not built with sufficiently 'heavy duty' or Industrial Grade components to last and I suppose that's just part of 'Planned Obsolescence'... Unfortunately, I can't wrap my head around the fact - Why would you buy another of the same lawn tractor brand if it doesn't hold up more than 5 or 10 years depending on whether you're using this lawn tractor daily or weekly.

There does appear to be another issue developing, probbably involving one of these Safety wiring components because after mowing for an hour or so, the PTO Switch will tend to at first, engage the actual PTO Drive 'more slowly' when Pulling-Out to engage and eventually after several Pull-Out/Push-In cycles will NOT engage the PTO Drive at all - And all you hear is slight 'electrical buzzing' from somewhere - likely the Voltage Relay also under the Console, which I've come to understand tends to wear-out due to the Amperage required to power the PTO Drive itself when engaging the PTO Switch.

I'm still waiting for the Cub Experts here to pass along how to go about removing some or all of the PTO Safety Interlocks built in - maybe starting with the Seat Safety switch first, since that from my perspective would be the simplest to bypass. From what I've read it sounds like it's normally CLOSED circuit when no one is sitting on the Cub seat (Engine/PTO won't Start or continue to RUN in this situation) and that someone sitting on the tractor seat causes the Seat Switch to be OPEN circuit for normal Engine/PTO running operation.

Keep a watch on this post, I'm sure the updates will get interesting.
greynold99

 

[mechanic mark]

Re: Update to Mechanic Mark and last update

Mechanic Mark,
I found I actually had the Appendix I requested the link for - I must've found it last Wednesday and downloaded it... probably off of one of your forum posts here.
Sorry just didn't remember but still would like to hear your opinions on the questions about the Cub's safety wiring and bypassing those.
Thanks,
greynold99

Regarding bypassing of Safety Switches, I'm totally against it. I had an accident two years ago while mowing in reverse & in a hurry before storm hit, went over very small embankment with tractor on top of me, everything shut down on mower, I was alive and well on gravel drive, asked for help from ABOVE, was able to belly crawl out from under tractor, tractor was on its right side, I prayed for help again & was able to roll tractor to upright position by using steering wheel to lift with, I did have help from ABOVE! Think about it, when you start bypassing safety switches, you are not just inviting an accident to happen, you are possibly interfering with your machines electrical system components & performance of engine. Would you bypass or disable safety switches on your personal vehicle, motorcycle, boat, atv, personal airplane?

 

[greynold99]

Motoman,
Glad to hear you got your electrical problem fixed. If you re-read one of my earlier updates, my original problem with the BATT Charge Warning light coming ON was simple to fix - just reseated the plastic electrical PTO Switch connection from Console underside where you have the PTO Pull Out/Push In switch and ignition key cylinder... On my Cub there's multiple wires in this electrical connector, likely linked to the so called 'Safety Shutdown of the PTO' if you try to go in Reverse while mowing deck engaged or getting off the seat while the engine is running (This kills the engine as well unless the Brake is set in Park)... So the wiring itself is kind of complicated - when you consider that all you wanted was a lawnmowing tractor...
Packardv8 has indicated the safety and wiring components were not built with sufficiently 'heavy duty' or Industrial Grade components to last and I suppose that's just part of 'Planned Obsolescence'... Unfortunately, I can't wrap my head around the fact - Why would you buy another of the same lawn tractor brand if it doesn't hold up more than 5 or 10 years depending on whether you're using this lawn tractor daily or weekly.

There does appear to be another issue developing, probbably involving one of these Safety wiring components because after mowing for an hour or so, the PTO Switch will tend to at first, engage the actual PTO Drive 'more slowly' when Pulling-Out to engage and eventually after several Pull-Out/Push-In cycles will NOT engage the PTO Drive at all - And all you hear is slight 'electrical buzzing' from somewhere - likely the Voltage Relay also under the Console, which I've come to understand tends to wear-out due to the Amperage required to power the PTO Drive itself when engaging the PTO Switch.

I'm still waiting for the Cub Experts here to pass along how to go about removing some or all of the PTO Safety Interlocks built in - maybe starting with the Seat Safety switch first, since that from my perspective would be the simplest to bypass. From what I've read it sounds like it's normally CLOSED circuit when no one is sitting on the Cub seat (Engine/PTO won't Start or continue to RUN in this situation) and that someone sitting on the tractor seat causes the Seat Switch to be OPEN circuit for normal Engine/PTO running operation.

Keep a watch on this post, I'm sure the updates will get interesting.
greynold99

 

[motoman]

greynold. Thanks. I guess I kind of crashed your thread, but may be helpful to some readers. Glad you are patient. My only comment is that I cannot relate to a buzzing from the voltage reg as it is most likely solid state all the way-no moving parts. I have not cut into one but they are most likely a "solid potted" circuit. You probably know that. Good luck and will keep watching hoping you solve the problem. I have mixed feelings about my big box Craftsman. I know building to a price point is very difficult. After major early problem with Intek engine pretting satisfied after 10 years of medium (home) use. I have seen the degradation like the connector I described on English cars, but never on US/Japanese stuff. (Although I have seen Audi connectors fail sourced outside Deutschland). Before finding the dangling wire I priced the Intek volt reg @$54 from Briggs. $18 on line where they will not say source. Leery of the $18 , both quality of labor and cheap components. Of course the $18 looks identical to the Briggs, like a Gucci handbag knockoff,:laughing: