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Command cv16s Not charging

#1

C

Chris_feldk

I did an engine swap on my cub cadet, a bought a cv16s at the time of buying I didnt know that It had an unregulated 3 amp charging coil unlike the 15 amp cv16. I needed a 15 amp so I bought a cv16 flywheel and cv16 stator. I bought a used flywheel but an Amazon stator and regulator. Everything bolted up good and I get 35 volts off of one ac wire but 3 off of the other, and when connected to the regulator I get 3 volts. I get 0.3 ohms through the stator and the wires aren’t shorting to ground. Do you guys think it’s the cheap stator? Any help would be great thanks


#2

R

Rivets

Read this manual for troubleshooting procedure. https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Ko...13-CV14-CV15-CV16-CV460-CV465-CV490-CV495.pdf


#3

StarTech

StarTech

Well going a lot more info. Like part vendor (link part ad). Plus which flywheel did get off eBay?

And also which CV16 is this going on?
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#4

V

VegetiveSteam

Chris_feldk said:
I did an engine swap on my cub cadet, a bought a cv16s at the time of buying I didnt know that It had an unregulated 3 amp charging coil unlike the 15 amp cv16. I needed a 15 amp so I bought a cv16 flywheel and cv16 stator. I bought a used flywheel but an Amazon stator and regulator. Everything bolted up good and I get 35 volts off of one ac wire but 3 off of the other, and when connected to the regulator I get 3 volts. I get 0.3 ohms through the stator and the wires aren’t shorting to ground. Do you guys think it’s the cheap stator? Any help would be great thanks
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This is a common error. You don't measure each AC wire individually. You measure across them, but the total VAC should be the same. Black lead on one stator wire and red lead on the other. You should have a minimum of 28 VAC across the two. I'm guessing if you measure across the leads, you'll have 38 VAC which is right where you want it to be. Measuring each lead individually will always show one wire with less output than the other. Sounds like your stator is just fine.

Where are you measuring the 3 volts? Is it DC voltage at the B+ terminal of the regulator? If so, the minimum you should have there is battery voltage. The regulator has to be connected to a battery to work. The B+ terminal needs to be connected to the battery and sense DC battery voltage to turn it on and put out any useable voltage or amperage. If that's where you're reading the 3 VDC, that is just stray bleed through voltage and means nothing. Also don't forget. Besides needing battery voltage coming to it, the regulator also needs to be grounded to work.


#5

C

Chris_feldk

so its been a while since i made this post and forgot about it. let me update, so i installed the amazon stator and the new used cv16 flywheel (which has 6 magnets instead of the cv16s flywheel having 3) still wasn't charging. i needed to cut the grass so i run it anyway when i was running it i started to hear a weird inconsistent knock, i could see what looked like the flywheel shaking almost. i thought at first it was the coil gap so i adjusted it but still was doing it. after, i pulled the flywheel off and saw 3 magnets came loose and one cracked in half. so using my old flywheel and the new used one i had 6 good magnets. i re glued all 6 magnets and put it on and still wasn't charging so i got a used oem stator off ebay and after putting that one its charging. but it still knocks and I just cant figure it out. its a inconsistent knock that only happens about 2800rpm or higher, never at idle. i even ran it without the stator and with my old flywheel with no magnets on it and it still knocked. i made sure the engine mount bolts were tight and ran the engine without the pto and mower deck. still hear it. it sounds like its coming from the engine and not anything on the tractor it literally sounds like if you were to take a wrench and smack the frame once every second or two. i really don't know what it could be crank shaft play? not sure, some knowledge on this would be very appreciated. i can post a video aswell thanks.


#6

V

VegetiveSteam

A video may help with what the knock might be but from what you posted previously I think you replaced parts that didn’t need replacing.


#7

C

Chris_feldk

VegetiveSteam said:
A video my help with what the knock might be but from what you posted previously I think you replaced parts that didn’t need replacing.
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I tested the new amazon stator one ac wire was getting 3 volts and the other 17 volts. If combined i got 27 but still the output of it to the regulator was 3 volts. I have a video of that too. And I also couldn’t use the original flywheel because it only had 3 magnets. And needed to upgrade from the 3 amp stator to a 15 amp because I have an electric pto and headlights and an electric fuel pump. Note also I bought this engine to swap in and didn’t know about the 3 amp charging system at the time when I bought it.


#8

V

VegetiveSteam

Chris_feldk said:
Everything bolted up good and I get 35 volts off of one ac wire but 3 off of the other
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I based my response off of this info. 38 total volts AC tells me the stator and flywheel are fine. Now, 20 volts AC, 17 + 3 is of course a different story and says to me, bad stator or flywheel magnets. Regardless, it looks like the actual charging issue is taken care of and now it's a noise issue.


#9

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Chris_feldk

Yes your correct. sorry i meant to put 25 not 35. Will post a video later today or tomorrow. Thank you for following along with me and helping me out.


#10

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Chris_feldk

Alright I posted two YouTube videos of it, one is where I’m standing and the other I’m riding the tractor. The sound is like a wrench tapping the frame or like if you hit a pebble with the blades. If you guys can help me figure this out that would be great thanks. Video 1 Video 2


#11

V

VegetiveSteam

I think I heard something like metal on metal in the first video as you were turning but have no idea what it could be. In the second video, I didn't hear anything that sounded like metal on metal, but I did hear what sounded like a bit of a muffled pop out of the muffler.


#12

C

Chris_feldk

VegetiveSteam said:
I think I heard something like metal on metal in the first video as you were turning but have no idea what it could be. In the second video, I didn't hear anything that sounded like metal on metal, but I did hear what sounded like a bit of a muffled pop out of the muffler.
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Thanks for replying so quick I appreciate it! Yes it does sound like it’s metal on metal, I initially thought it was the motor bolts so i tightened them and added washers. And you were right it did pop out the exhaust in the second clip. I can try to get a better video. But I will check over a couple things again. It’s driving me crazy I don’t want to run it with that noise so when I cut the grass I have to run it at half throttle. Maybe I dropped a screw or something in the motor when the oil tube was off? I guess the motor is coming off. This is about the 4th time having to pull a motor on this tractor. lol it doesn’t end.


#13

V

VegetiveSteam

For the most part the engine sounds like it's running good.

If you have an engine stethoscope that would be great. If not, this sometimes works. Take a screwdriver and put the tip against the block and put your ear against the hand you're holding the screwdriver with. See if you can tell that the noise is coming from inside the engine. If you can be sure it's coming from inside, I'd stop running it and be pulling the pan.

I assume it has some sort of stack pulley on the PTO side of the crankshaft. Maybe take it off and see if the noise is still there.


#14

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Chris_feldk

Chris_feldk said:
Thanks for replying so quick I appreciate it! Yes it does sound like it’s metal on metal, I initially thought it was the motor bolts so i tightened them and added washers. And you were right it did pop out the exhaust in the second clip. I can try to get a better video. But I will check over a couple things again. It’s driving me crazy I don’t want to run it with that noise so when I cut the grass I have to run it at half throttle. Or maybe it’s fine to run it like that? Not sure.
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VegetiveSteam said:
For the most part the engine sounds like it's running good.

If you have an engine stethoscope that would be great. If not, this sometimes works. Take a screwdriver and put the tip against the block and put your ear against the hand you're holding the screwdriver with. See if you can tell that the noise is coming from inside the engine. If you can be sure it's coming from inside, I'd stop running it and be pulling the pan.

I assume it has some sort of stack pulley on the PTO side of the crankshaft. Maybe take it off and see if the noise is still there.
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Ok will try that that’s a good idea. Also if I think I forgot to mention I did pull the deck and pto off and the noise was still there. And I was underneath while it was running and the noise was coming from the front of the tractor from the engine.


#15

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Chris_feldk

i could hear the noise off the motor using a screwdriver and just decided to pull it because it’s pretty easy on this mower. I got the crankcase cover off and the first thing I saw was a date on the camshaft from 2011. Since someone was in here before me I made sure the counterbalance was in time. Cam was also in time. It look really clean and had zero sludge. There was a couple pieces of dirt but nothing metal or like a screw or anything. I guess I will throw it back together and I will run it without the drive pulley. ( I had to pull the motor to get a puller on the pulley) and be sure all bolts are tight.


#16

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VegetiveSteam

Do you think the camshaft was replaced? If the camshaft was replaced, and not the crankshaft, that can cause noise almost like a rod knock due to the unmatched wear on the cam and crank gears.


#17

C

Chris_feldk

Chris_feldk said:
i could hear the noise off the motor using a screwdriver and just decided to pull it because it’s pretty easy on this mower. I got the crankcase cover off and the first thing I saw was a date on the camshaft from 2011. Since someone was in here before me I made sure the counterbalance was in time. Cam was also in time. It look really clean and had zero sludge. There was a couple pieces of dirt but nothing metal or like a screw or anything. I guess I will throw it back together and I will run it without the drive pulley. ( I had to pull the motor to get a puller on the pulley) and be sure all bolts are tight.
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VegetiveSteam said:
Do you think the camshaft was replaced? If the camshaft was replaced, and not the crankshaft, that can cause noise almost like a rod knock due to the unmatched wear on the cam and crank gears.
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VegetiveSteam said:
Do you think the camshaft was replaced? If the camshaft was replaced, and not the crankshaft, that can cause noise almost like a rod knock due to the unmatched wear on the cam and crank gears.
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That is very true it could be I will say the gears are really tight and I can’t see any play out of it when I move it with my hands but the camshaft gear does look very new and the teeth look sharp


#18

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Chris_feldk

I can actually see in the picture that’s top down the crank gear does look worse. You might have just figured it out that really could be it!

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#19

C

Chris_feldk

I can also visibly see and feel that the crank gear is higher than the cam gear and I bet you are right it does look like a new cam

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#20

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VegetiveSteam

There does appear to be wear on the crank gear and virtually none on the cam gear.


#21

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Chris_feldk

Can I replace the crankshaft gear? I have worked on tons of Briggs and know you can but this is my first Kohler. Sorry if I sound dumb as I don’t have much experience and I’m only 18.


#22

V

VegetiveSteam

Chris_feldk said:
Can I replace the crankshaft gear? I have worked on tons of Briggs and know you can but this is my first Kohler. Sorry if I sound dumb as I don’t have much experience and I’m only 18.
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Sadly no. It would require a complete crankshaft. It might wear in and quiet down. Or it might cause some teeth to break.


#23

C

Chris_feldk

VegetiveSteam said:
Sadly no. It would require a complete crankshaft. It might wear in and quiet down. Or it might cause some teeth to break.
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Well that’s likely why this motor was sold. But I got it for 50$ and the tractor for free. And I don’t think it’s worth it to dump 175 in it for a new crank. So I guess I don’t have much to lose and will just run it the way it is. Or at about half throttle and see if it breaks in And gets better. But as for now I will put the motor back together and on. Thank you.


#24

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VegetiveSteam

What is the spec number on this engine?


#25

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Chris_feldk

VegetiveSteam said:
What is the spec number on this engine?
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43526 let me just say I am dumb i was getting ready to rtv and noticed I can wiggle the counterbalance gear like a lot. I know the crankcase cover supports the upper half but it is a lot of play.


#26

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Chris_feldk

I put the counterbalance in the crankcase cover and it seemed a lot better. So maybe the part it rests in in the actual block is worn out?


#27

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Chris_feldk

I believe I just figured it out. So the play in the counter balance is so bad I can see what looks like marks all over the counterbalance shaft. And I can see a mark on the rod cap. So I believe the play is so bad that the rod is smacking the counterbalance. And the knock only appears at higher rpm’s and it gets worse the higher the rpm is. I could try and possibly get a new shaft or maybe try to do something sketchy and clearance it I’m not sure.


#28

C

Chris_feldk

Chris_feldk said:
I believe I just figured it out. So the play in the counter balance is so bad I can see what looks like marks all over the counterbalance shaft. And I can see a mark on the rod cap. So I believe the play is so bad that the rod is smacking the counterbalance. And the knock only appears at higher rpm’s and it gets worse the higher the rpm is. I could try and possibly get a new shaft or maybe try to do something sketchy and clearance it I’m not sure.
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#29

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VegetiveSteam

I haven't been inside a CV single in a long time, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't the relationship between the balance shaft gear and the crankshaft gear keep the balance shaft from being able to move enough to contact the rod cap even if the balance shaft bearing surfaces were worn?

You seem to be pretty good and getting the engine in and out so as a test you could put it back together with the counterbalance shaft removed. Then run the engine and see if the noise it gone.


#30

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Chris_feldk

Yes you are right, also i did realize on the CV series the balance shaft is what drives the oil pump, so cant take that out unless i want to make the engine go kablooie. i can try possibly try getting a new balance shaft. but the yard is getting tall and i have no way of cutting it, i may order a new balance shaft and throw the engine back on for now to cut the grass then take it back off when i get the new one. it only takes me about a half hour to put the motor on and off.


#31

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VegetiveSteam

Yeah that's right. I forgot that the oil pump was driven by the balance shaft. For some reason I was thinking the pump was driven by the camshaft.

Does anything else inside the engine look worn?

A couple of other things come to mind as well. With the rod cap being soft aluminum, I would think if it smacked the steel balance shaft, it would have taken off enough aluminum after a time or two that it would have created it's own clearance. The other thing is, if the holes the balance shaft rides in are worn, putting a new balance shaft in worn holes would result in the same issue wouldn't it? I will say I am just speculating here as I've never run into this issue before. Another thing to look at. If that shaft is moving that much I would think you might be able to visually see some oval shape to the holes.


#32

C

Chris_feldk

VegetiveSteam said:
Yeah that's right. I forgot that the oil pump was driven by the balance shaft. For some reason I was thinking the pump was driven by the camshaft.

Does anything else inside the engine look worn?

A couple of other things come to mind as well. With the rod cap being soft aluminum, I would think if it smacked the steel balance shaft, it would have taken off enough aluminum after a time or two that it would have created it's own clearance. The other thing is, if the holes the balance shaft rides in are worn, putting a new balance shaft in worn holes would result in the same issue wouldn't it? I will say I am just speculating here as I've never run into this issue before. Another thing to look at. If that shaft is moving that much I would think you might be able to visually see some oval shape to the holes.
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VegetiveSteam said:
Yeah that's right. I forgot that the oil pump was driven by the balance shaft. For some reason I was thinking the pump was driven by the camshaft.

Does anything else inside the engine look worn?

A couple of other things come to mind as well. With the rod cap being soft aluminum, I would think if it smacked the steel balance shaft, it would have taken off enough aluminum after a time or two that it would have created it's own clearance. The other thing is, if the holes the balance shaft rides in are worn, putting a new balance shaft in worn holes would result in the same issue wouldn't it? I will say I am just speculating here as I've never run into this issue before. Another thing to look at. If that shaft is moving that much I would think you might be able to visually see some oval shape to the holes.
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Nothing In the engine looks worn and well I know it would have nearly the same play I was just coming up with an idea and maybe a new one would take up some play. But I finally figured out the problem. So I seal up the motor and put it back on my tractor. And if I run it without the drive pulley the noise is gone. And it will rev at 3600 rpm without any noise. But I still can figure out where the noise is coming from on the tractor. But atleast I know it’s not the motor. But I still had to pull it to get a puller on the pulley, and I’m glad I saw the inside of this motor I learned a couple things. I’m not sure if the belt is making contact or is a idler pulley or tensioner pulley but hopefully I can figure it out.


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