Age old question, Winter Storage?

[MarineBob]

I put StarTron fuel treatment in my gas cans before filling them with ethanol-free gas. StarTron was the only fuel stabilizer we used at the lawn equipment shop I used to work at. Service manager and lead mechanic said it was better than Sta-bil, so I used it in all my equipment during storage, and never had problems with starting my equipment afterwards. Gas with ethanol added is a repair shop’s best friend, as most of the no-start issues were due to the customer using gas with ethanol. When you recommend what gas to use, some will listen, but most will not.

When people say ethanol gas is an issue, my first question is what about it? is it 2 years old? Was it in a machine that had seals/gaskets that were not resistant to ethanol (ie, older equipment?) It really does not make sense to say that ethanol gas was a cause of not starting without more details. Millions of small engines run on ethanol gas every day with no issues at all so by itself, ethanol gas is not problematic. Might cause issues that are understandable and avoidable.

 

[Rickcin]

I put StarTron fuel treatment in my gas cans before filling them with ethanol-free gas. StarTron was the only fuel stabilizer we used at the lawn equipment shop I used to work at. Service manager and lead mechanic said it was better than Sta-bil, so I used it in all my equipment during storage, and never had problems with starting my equipment afterwards. Gas with ethanol added is a repair shop’s best friend, as most of the no-start issues were due to the customer using gas with ethanol. When you recommend what gas to use, some will listen, but most will not.

I just read up on a detailed comparison of Star Tron vs Stabil and the conclusion is that both products are virtually similar even the shelf life once the bottles have been opened.
I dare say either product, probably including Seafoam, will probably suffice and do what they are designed to accomplish

 

[moangrass]

I know folks lie and fabricate reviews all the time, but 647 ~5 star reviews is damn good plus the testimony from the knowledgeable folks here is good enough for me.
View attachment 67293

Lets use a little common sense here. From the website:

https://priproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2015-PRI-G-Flyer.pdf

They say, and I cut and pasted from the description on their website:

PRI-G is a super concentrated, complete fuel treatment that
improves any type of gasoline, enabling it to perform to maximum
potential. PRI-G’s industrial strength, enhanced thermal stability
chemistry reacts with fuel upon contact, and provides multiple
benefits:
 Engines perform better and last longer
 Engine power increased and fuel economy realized
 Fuel system and engine deposits prevented
 Extends fuel storage life, restores degraded fuels
 Hesitation, knocking, and pinging reduced
 Contains no dangerous water emulsifiers

This stuff is added at the rate of 1:2000 (1 gallon of Pri-G will treat 2000 gallons of gas), that means that you add 0.0625 oz per gallon. Just for giggles, I looked up what one fkuid ounce of gasoline weighs (assuming the treatment weighs about the same as the gas). One fl oz of gas weighs 22.15 grams (.78 oz weight measure). Therefore you add 1.41 grams/gallon of gas (0.05 oz by weight). If you go to cc's, this translates to 1.85cc/gallon.

This stuff is obviously designed for bulk treatment of gasoline, and I defy anyone here to quickly and easily measure out this volume. You would have to use a hypodermic needle to pull 2 ccs out of the jar.

I'm not a chemist, but expecting such a small quantity of anything to significantly improve gas mileage, economy, and power beggars the imagination. I'd want to see dyno testing by an independent lab before I believed these claims. If you don't experience pinging/knocking now, reducing the fuel's tendency to do so is of no value. You said 647 five star reviews is damn good. How many of those folks did any testing beyond adding the juice to their gas and starting the engine in the spring? Until someone I respect who knows what this stuff is gives it a gold seal of approval, I'm skeptical they can meet their claims. I'll pass.

 

[fzullo]

Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

I always run dry and use Seafoam regularly in all my equipment never have an issue.

 

[Smithsonite]

I was a small engine mechanic for 14 years full time - ran a shop out of my house. In my experience, if it has a diaphragm carburetor, you leave it FULL of gas. The diaphragms ALWAYS fail if left dry any length of time.

If it has a float bowl, best course of action is to drain everything dry.

Over the course of just 4 months, usually you can get away with just draining the bowl, and leaving the tank full (So there's no room for moisture to condense inside). Especially through a winter. With snowblowers that get used only 2-3 months per year, plus get stored in hot conditions, draining the bowl after EVERY use is good practice, since you never know when, or IF, the next storm is coming. Then in spring, drain the tank COMPLETELY. Mine will start 1 pull after sitting for years. Same with generators.

Either this, or use E0 in everything. I go out of state where free'er states actually sell it at the pump, and stockpile. Imagine having that convenience, getting off-road fuel at a pump! (This is MA for ya ...)

I do this with all my equipment. Haven't bought any kind of stabilizer in 24 years, and I live in MA where we get the crap at the pump with zero alternatives, aside from paying $20+ a gallon at the hardware store for the canned stuff. Or $6 a gallon at an airport.

 

[txjungle]

Sta-bil bottle specifically recommends keeping tank 95%+ full. I would top it off or run it dry.

You might also dump a little bit of Seafoam in the last few sips of fuel before it runs dry.

 

[elmrfudd]

When people say ethanol gas is an issue, my first question is what about it? is it 2 years old? Was it in a machine that had seals/gaskets that were not resistant to ethanol (ie, older equipment?) It really does not make sense to say that ethanol gas was a cause of not starting without more details. Millions of small engines run on ethanol gas every day with no issues at all so by itself, ethanol gas is not problematic. Might cause issues that are understandable and avoidable.

I apologize for lack of clarification in the previous post, so I will do my best to give more details. What I saw was customers who stored their equipment for months on end with untreated ethanol gas. Another common issue was draining gas tanks that had a substantial amount of water in the tank, as ethanol attracts moisture. Many times, upon disassembly of carburetors, ethanol residue buildup ranged from a white powdery substance, to green or copper-brown colored sticky glue-like substance. My clarification is this, if you’re going to use ethanol gas, make sure it’s either stabilized, fresh, and less than 30 days old. Fresh ethanol gas does not create problems, for the most part. But when it’s allowed to become old and stale, you’re asking for problems. Have you ever known anyone who‘s had ethanol gas in a generator or pressure washer for months on end, and had no-start issues with a full tank of gas? I see it constantly. Remember, gasoline will eventually evaporate if uncapped, but the ethanol will always stay behind in one form or another. Hoping I clarified my comment, even just a little. Have a blessed day, everyone!

 

[Smithsonite]

Yeah, if you use your equipment constantly and it never sits, then E10 is perfectly fine.

If they sit, then you deal with this ...

 

[Smithsonite]

I have more, but they won't upload ...

 

[Earthquake Landscaping]

I just love e-10 gas. It's milk shake brings the boys to my yard. ( You either get that, or you don't). LOL. Whenever I get, "I don't know, it ran fine last year, now it just won't start", the first thing I do is dump the fuel, completely, clean the plug, and try with my mix. Premium, non Ethanol, with a splash of SeaFoam. Sometimes, that's all it needed to run, and the SeaFoam in the fuel will clean out some of the junk that the E-10 fuel left in the system. By no means a perfect solution, but, if all they want is for it to run, it's a viable alternative to a tear down. You can't put $100.00 worth of labour into a $125.00 piece of equipment. Sometimes, it's time to completely disassemble the carb, run it through an ultrasonic bath, and try again. Sometimes.. it just needs a new carb.

Even with Premium non Ethanol fuel, with SeaFoam as a stabiliser, I still adhere to the 60 day rule. More than 60 days, and it gets tossed out. Necessary? Probably not, but to remove a variable in a no start scenario, it's not worth dicking around with questionable fuel on a customer service, time is money.. . 4 Ski-doos, 3 ATVs' , 2 snow-blowers .. nothing but Premium, Ethanol free.. For the extra 20 cents a litre, it's worth the peace of mind. Got a 1996 Honda Foreman 400 that starts on the first spin. Never had the carb apart, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Big difference too, between a fuel system that's vented ( Lawn mower, snow blower.. stuff with a vented cap), and non vented ( Chain saw, weed whacker, etc.). A vented fuel system "breathes", a lot more air through the system. A lot more. Phase separation occurs when the Ethanol has absorbed all the water that it's attracted, and then continues to attract more moisture. That's when the hurt begins.

I completely agree that newer stuff is built to withstand Ethanol in the fuel ( lines, gaskets, seals, etc),.. But, nothing is meant to withstand the caustic effects that occur, when the fuel has absorbed all that it can, and phase separation trashes the internals of the carb.