Blades Major trouble removing blades

[Ric]

I just bought a set of blades for my Cub Cadet Z-Force 44" and have run into problems removing the old blades. The three blades are each bolted on by a 1-1/8 nut. I have attempted to remove them with an impact wrench, socket and pry par, socket - pry bar - sludge hammer combo, torch, solvents, and praying. I cannot get a single nut to rotate and looking at the threads as well as the manual, they are common threaded nuts which left turning "should" loosen. Any suggestions? It's hard to even get a bite to wedge the blades stationery on this thing.

THANKS!

I know where you are coming from, the problem is the nuts on the Z Force is that they are torqued at something like 110 to 120 lbs. I had a time with getting them off mine the first time. If it's the lap bar model you will also need a wrench to fit the middle spindle on top to hold that nut, if you don't you'll turn the spindle out from the bottom. Where in Florida are you located. They do turn to the left to remove the nuts and it will take a fairly good impact to remove them. You may want to consider taking the mower to the shop and let them remove the blades the first time or this time if someone got carried away installing them, just don't let them install them. When you get the blades off and you're ready to re-install them torque them at 80 to 90 lbs that's all you need.

 

[Rivets]

After you get them off, clean the threads good before reinstalling. In my opinion, I would never use anti-sieze on blade nuts or bolts. I always clean and dry torque.

 

[Ric]

After you get them off, clean the threads good before reinstalling. In my opinion, I would never use anti-sieze on blade nuts or bolts. I always clean and dry torque.

I'm with you I would never anti-sieze, just clean the threads with a wire brush and dry torque.

 

[motoman]

I woke up in the nite and remembered a trick as last resort... I have never done this but...
If you have access to a wire welder or maybe arc welder or even oxyacetylelne get a piece of 1/8 mild steel flat stock and tack weld to the outmost ( and underside if poss) of the pulley . The lever arm should match the breaker arm in length if poss. Four small but sufficient weld beads should hold and give you the solid base you need to jar the nut. I have always found you should slightly tighen (if poss) then slightly loosen and put a dab of penetrating oil and repeat. Keep the tighen loosen drill going until the nut will turn completely. Remove weld beads afterwards.

The use of a lubricant is risky on torqued fasteners because using the same torque can over stretch the bolt. Unless the you know the bolt hardness and an "expert" (not me) tells you how to reduce the observed torque you should get the threads clean and dry ( I like WD 40 as a bath and wipe completely dry ) Manufacturers who plate fasteners tell us the zinc plating is itself a lube so those fasteners' observed torques are adjusted accordingly. :2cents:

 

[skizzot]

I know where you are coming from, the problem is the nuts on the Z Force is that they are torqued at something like 110 to 120 lbs. I had a time with getting them off mine the first time. If it's the lap bar model you will also need a wrench to fit the middle spindle on top to hold that nut, if you don't you'll turn the spindle out from the bottom. Where in Florida are you located. They do turn to the left to remove the nuts and it will take a fairly good impact to remove them. You may want to consider taking the mower to the shop and let them remove the blades the first time or this time if someone got carried away installing them, just don't let them install them. When you get the blades off and you're ready to re-install them torque them at 80 to 90 lbs that's all you need.

^ I'm in Viera. The new blades are on the mower with the deck installed! After soaking for two days with repeated applications of PB Blaster I literally tried to kill this thing tonight. Here's what I did: I got a large metal pipe, a huge breaker bar used frequently for large equipment (swamp buggy, etc.) and a 1-1/8 impact socket. I took another breaker bar with a 1-1/8" to put on the top side and wedged it against a metal part of the deck secured in place with zip ties to prevent slipping. First I tried an air impact wrench delivering torque of 580 ft./lbs which didn't move the nut at all. I then secured the deck and cranked on the pipe before hooking it up to power equipment. That actually worked. The nut never "broke free," but rather slowly turned with a ridiculous amount of force being applied. One thing I can't figure out is why the blade spun in the opposite direction while still tight. (I was actually looking forward to using the winch followed by welding a ring to the pipe in order to hook it to a crane strap attached to a diesel truck.)

Thanks for your comments and suggestions!

 

[metz12]

After you get them off, clean the threads good before reinstalling. In my opinion, I would never use anti-sieze on blade nuts or bolts. I always clean and dry torque.

Why wouldnt you use never seize on the blades if you dont mind me asking? will it loosen easier?

 

[Parkmower]

Why wouldnt you use never seize on the blades if you dont mind me asking? will it loosen easier?

I don't think so. I just had this problem on a machine that I changed blades on mid summer and applied never seize. Tried to change them a few weeks later and couldn't get one bolt off. I solved it with a 300 lb co-worker pulling on the end of a 8' pipe on a 1/2" breaker bar. This was the Jacobsen in my avatar.

 

[metz12]

I don't think so. I just had this problem on a machine that I changed blades on mid summer and applied never seize. Tried to change them a few weeks later and couldn't get one bolt off. I solved it with a 300 lb co-worker pulling on the end of a 8' pipe on a 1/2" breaker bar. This was the Jacobsen in my avatar.

Huh, i wonder if it allows the bolt to tighten more? my uncle that has been a mechanic for god knows how long has said to always put never seize on any nut/bolt you take out of something. i would have never thought that it would do that.

 

[Rivets]

Most blade bolts or nuts are used in combination with a spring type locking washer, along with a split ring lock washer. This puts pressure on the threads when they are torqued properly. This dry torque is used to offset set the torque on the blade when they stop. You must realize the spinning torque of the blade is extremely high. If the threads are wet, over time the twisting force of the stopping blade can loosen the nut or bolt, creating a dangerous situation. Anti-seize is used on nuts and bolts that don't have twisting forces on them that could cause them to come loose on their own.

You must also realize that there are many different types of anti-seize materials. A few you might find are; copper/graphite base, nickel/graphite base, zinc, Moly, and Teflon. Each has a specific use, even though many many can be use in a variety of situations, but should never be used on certain jobs. Example, teflon's primary use is in areas where water is in the area, but should never be used at temps over 212 degrees, such as steam, unless it contains a high temp additive.

This is the short, sweet version and there are exceptions. Hope this helps.

 

[metz12]

Most blade bolts or nuts are used in combination with a spring type locking washer, along with a split ring lock washer. This puts pressure on the threads when they are torqued properly. This dry torque is used to offset set the torque on the blade when they stop. You must realize the spinning torque of the blade is extremely high. If the threads are wet, over time the twisting force of the stopping blade can loosen the nut or bolt, creating a dangerous situation. Anti-seize is used on nuts and bolts that don't have twisting forces on them that could cause them to come loose on their own.

You must also realize that there are many different types of anti-seize materials. A few you might find are; copper/graphite base, nickel/graphite base, zinc, Moly, and Teflon. Each has a specific use, even though many many can be use in a variety of situations, but should never be used on certain jobs. Example, teflon's primary use is in areas where water is in the area, but should never be used at temps over 212 degrees, such as steam, unless it contains a high temp additive.

This is the short, sweet version and there are exceptions. Hope this helps.

Thanks, thats interesting. I never realized there were those different uses for the different kind. And what what you use for lubricant? I really like pb blaster, but my grandfather gave me a few cans of loosey goosey and it works great! but they dont make it anymore.