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First time buyer. ZT or Rider
#1
J
Jimboh
J
Jimboh
Moving to a new house next month and will have a little under 1.5 acres. The lot is primarily flat wide open with minimal trees or obstacles. I’ve been researching online and around many local vendors but would like some opinions from some people that aren’t trying to sell me something. I’m back and forth between a standard riding mower or a zero turn. I’ve never owned either, only push mowers until now. Which do you recommend and why? I’d like to keep it under $3k. The new house brings enough expenses and I don’t need to go crazy, just want to get a good cut
#2
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
ZTR if you plan to do nothing but cut, Garden Tractor (not riding mower) if you plan to do anything else. My lawn is relatively flat, with minimal obstacles and with about 1 acre to maintain it took just over 1 hour to cut with a 50" rider. With my 48" ZTR it takes between 40 and 45 minutes: a 25% savings in time. If you plan to use rollers, aerators, haul stone/mulch/wood or use a snow blade for, then a garden tractor will provide you with a platform and strength for those tools. I say Garden Tractor as you want a beefier transaxle for the hauling tasks.
#3
J
Jimboh
J
Jimboh
I don’t see myself using it for anything other than grass cutting. Already own a snowblower and while a trailer would be move to have with it it’s not necessary for my yard. So your saying grass cutting only you’d go with a ZT? If that’s so, which brand/models would you recommend? I’ve looked at Cub Cadet rzt l46, a few Ariens and ex-mark, although most of the exmarks I’ve seen are out of my price range
#4
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
You will not get much of a new ZTR on your budget and will most likely be replacing it in 5 years.
At this time of the season you should be able to get a last season run out ZTR on vendor finance over 1 to 3 years with a no interest loan.
This would be a much better plan than buying a bottom end ZTR.
I repair them and the only 2 small ZTR's that I would buy are the small JD 242 or the Cub with lap bars.
The bottom end Craftsman & McCulloch are very badly made and to be avoided.
I do not see any Husqvarna ZTR's at all, they do not sell well in my service zone.
Going a long way up the Toro professional line Time Masters are great but Time Cutters seem to come in with a lot of niggleing faults.
We don't get a all of the same mowers that you do, Exmark- Hustler & Scag have a very small market share.
Value for money the Spartan range can not be beaten & I have yet to see a bad review of one.
Avoid World lawn like the plague along with anything else which is made in China.
At this time of the season you should be able to get a last season run out ZTR on vendor finance over 1 to 3 years with a no interest loan.
This would be a much better plan than buying a bottom end ZTR.
I repair them and the only 2 small ZTR's that I would buy are the small JD 242 or the Cub with lap bars.
The bottom end Craftsman & McCulloch are very badly made and to be avoided.
I do not see any Husqvarna ZTR's at all, they do not sell well in my service zone.
Going a long way up the Toro professional line Time Masters are great but Time Cutters seem to come in with a lot of niggleing faults.
We don't get a all of the same mowers that you do, Exmark- Hustler & Scag have a very small market share.
Value for money the Spartan range can not be beaten & I have yet to see a bad review of one.
Avoid World lawn like the plague along with anything else which is made in China.
#5
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
At $3k for your budget, get a Toro SS5000 on sale at the dealer. Comes with a decent sized deck, powerful engine, carries a 3yr unlimited hour warranty and gives an excellent cut quality. Your other choices in that price point are the Hustler Raptor 42 or something made by MTD or Husqvarna. There may be the 42" Deere as someone mentioned as well. I had a Toro SS4225 with the Kohler engine and recycler kit and it ran well. Now they put their own engine in it and re-designed the deck. One of these can be had for about $2500 plus tax right now. So you have options for new. Anything you get used you will likely have NO warranty since the unit will be either >3 years old or the warranty is non-transferable. Why spend any more than $1000 on any mower that isn't in warranty? Beyond that, be meticulous about maintenance and follow all of the manufacturers recommendations for operation and maintenance and you should hopefully have many years of use out of whatever you buy.
#6
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
FYI cruzenmike, Toro warranties are transferable. I would recommend Toro in either an SS or SW series, just a little out of your price range. If you maintain it well, it will last you a long time.
#7
C
cruzenmike
Husqvarna warranties are not, others are. I was just implying that this is something that must be know when buying something used. Also, the SS5000 can be had for $2899 on sale.
C
cruzenmike
FYI cruzenmike, Toro warranties are transferable. I would recommend Toro in either an SS or SW series, just a little out of your price range. If you maintain it well, it will last you a long time.
Husqvarna warranties are not, others are. I was just implying that this is something that must be know when buying something used. Also, the SS5000 can be had for $2899 on sale.
#8
7394
7394
Toro here, had my TimeCutter 4260 Kawasaki powered unit since Aug 2014 (year end sale), no more tractors for me. :thumbsup:
Plus the 2015 & newer TimeCutters have 3 speed ranges, so you can Tow / Mow or Go. Mind you they do suggest you don't exceed the weight of the Z for towing. Hard on the hydros.
Recommend you go to a Dealer & ask to test a few. And have a servicing Dealer in your area is a plus as well.
Plus the 2015 & newer TimeCutters have 3 speed ranges, so you can Tow / Mow or Go. Mind you they do suggest you don't exceed the weight of the Z for towing. Hard on the hydros.
Recommend you go to a Dealer & ask to test a few. And have a servicing Dealer in your area is a plus as well.
#9
J
Jimboh
J
Jimboh
Toro is not a brand I considered so I will definitely look in to them. My old push mower was a Toro, had to be at least 30 years old and started on the first pull everytime. Now that I’m considering Toro as well, which of these three would you recommend and why?
toro ss5000
Ariens Ikon x52
Cub Cadet rzt l46
toro ss5000
Ariens Ikon x52
Cub Cadet rzt l46
#10
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
I guess rather than recommend one, I would say, what are their strengths and what are their weaknesses?
Toro:
Strengths - fairly well built overall, most powerful engine, selectable speed (smart speed)
Weaknesses - deck hangers can be problematic, no hour meter to track usage for maintenance
Cub Cadet:
Strengths - can be had with a Honda engine
Weaknesses - reverse safety feature on a zero turn (makes no sense)
Ariens:
Strengths - Kawasaki engine, most features in the price range, fab deck, comfy seat, hour meter, foot lift assist for deck
Weaknesses - narrow back tires and heaviest of the three (will rut wet grass
These are just my opinions if these mowers. All three companies have extensive experience and long histories if making mowers. It's hard to ignore your past experience with Toro, or the fact that Ariens also has a commercial line that they build their models off of (Gravely), or that Cub Cadet is priced competitively.
Toro:
Strengths - fairly well built overall, most powerful engine, selectable speed (smart speed)
Weaknesses - deck hangers can be problematic, no hour meter to track usage for maintenance
Cub Cadet:
Strengths - can be had with a Honda engine
Weaknesses - reverse safety feature on a zero turn (makes no sense)
Ariens:
Strengths - Kawasaki engine, most features in the price range, fab deck, comfy seat, hour meter, foot lift assist for deck
Weaknesses - narrow back tires and heaviest of the three (will rut wet grass
These are just my opinions if these mowers. All three companies have extensive experience and long histories if making mowers. It's hard to ignore your past experience with Toro, or the fact that Ariens also has a commercial line that they build their models off of (Gravely), or that Cub Cadet is priced competitively.
#11
D
Darryl G
D
Darryl G
Just want to add that can always add a Tiny Tach type hour meter to a machine. Did that to my walk-behind. Guess I should mention that it failed after a few years. I think it's still recording hours but the display is now in hieroglyphics.
#12
B
bertsmobile1
The LCD screen , just like your phone is affected by both heat & UV so they have to be out of the sun light
B
bertsmobile1
Just want to add that can always add a Tiny Tach type hour meter to a machine. Did that to my walk-behind. Guess I should mention that it failed after a few years. I think it's still recording hours but the display is now in hieroglyphics.
The LCD screen , just like your phone is affected by both heat & UV so they have to be out of the sun light
#13
D
Darryl G
Well I definitely violated that criteria big time! Thanks for the info.
Not to hijack the thread but any easy way to get a reading on it now that it's scrambled? Would be nice to know how many hours are on the machine.
D
Darryl G
The LCD screen , just like your phone is affected by both heat & UV so they have to be out of the sun light
Well I definitely violated that criteria big time! Thanks for the info.
Not to hijack the thread but any easy way to get a reading on it now that it's scrambled? Would be nice to know how many hours are on the machine.
#14
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
I just fitted one and made a little flap to go over the top of it.
This one beeps at you when the service hours are reached.
On tractors with fuel tank fillers at the back I fit them under the seat so you can red them every time you tip the seat forward to fill the tank .
Gravity fed mowers get them fitted under the dash with the same instructions, check it every time you fill.
If it is still working then Tiny Tach could fit a new screen but it would probably cost more than a new one.
This one beeps at you when the service hours are reached.
On tractors with fuel tank fillers at the back I fit them under the seat so you can red them every time you tip the seat forward to fill the tank .
Gravity fed mowers get them fitted under the dash with the same instructions, check it every time you fill.
If it is still working then Tiny Tach could fit a new screen but it would probably cost more than a new one.
#15
J
Jimboh
J
Jimboh
Stopped by another local dealer today and I really liked the place, a lot. They were a gravely Dealer.
So I am now adding the Gravely ZTX 52 as an option
So I am now adding the Gravely ZTX 52 as an option
#16
J
Jimboh
J
Jimboh
Also looks like Kawasaki engine is about 200 more than the Kohler 7000 series. Worth it?
#17
C
cruzenmike
Engine debates are often tiring and never-ending. If the Kawasaki is more it's for a reason. Either A, the name can demand a premium, or B it is more expensive to put into the equipment. I guess it could be both. Why A, maybe because Kawasaki has built a strong reputation lately, especially amongst commercial users. Why B, maybe the engine is of better quality and it's components are more expensive to source? I really don't know to be honest, just speculating. I do know that my Grandfather swore by Kohler engines and had them in his last three riders that he put hundreds of hours on without any issues. His last was a Kohler Command and at 10 years old it still runs like a champ. But this doesn't mean that the Kohlera of today (7000 series in particular) is built like the Command was, but still likely better than the Courage! As for Kawasaki, no experience with them, but they are American made as well, are known to run quieter and smoother than comparable Kohlers. In the end, you have to justify the cost to yourself and be assured that your experience with any engine is part how you use it and how you maintain it. The rest is likely luck?
C
cruzenmike
Also looks like Kawasaki engine is about 200 more than the Kohler 7000 series. Worth it?
Engine debates are often tiring and never-ending. If the Kawasaki is more it's for a reason. Either A, the name can demand a premium, or B it is more expensive to put into the equipment. I guess it could be both. Why A, maybe because Kawasaki has built a strong reputation lately, especially amongst commercial users. Why B, maybe the engine is of better quality and it's components are more expensive to source? I really don't know to be honest, just speculating. I do know that my Grandfather swore by Kohler engines and had them in his last three riders that he put hundreds of hours on without any issues. His last was a Kohler Command and at 10 years old it still runs like a champ. But this doesn't mean that the Kohlera of today (7000 series in particular) is built like the Command was, but still likely better than the Courage! As for Kawasaki, no experience with them, but they are American made as well, are known to run quieter and smoother than comparable Kohlers. In the end, you have to justify the cost to yourself and be assured that your experience with any engine is part how you use it and how you maintain it. The rest is likely luck?
#18
7394
7394
Inside Kawasaki's have Steel lifters & cam, to name something quickly. Not nylon like Kohler & Briggs use.
#19
J
Jimboh
Good to know, thanks.
I think I’ve decided on the Toro MX5025. I like that it has larger tires front and rear and that it comes with the Kawi engine
Was looking at toro mx5000 but that only came with Toros engine and I haven’t heard enough good or bad about them
J
Jimboh
Inside Kawasaki's have Steel lifters & cam, to name something quickly. Not nylon like Kohler & Briggs use.
Good to know, thanks.
I think I’ve decided on the Toro MX5025. I like that it has larger tires front and rear and that it comes with the Kawi engine
Was looking at toro mx5000 but that only came with Toros engine and I haven’t heard enough good or bad about them
#20
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
If you cannot find anything bad in the Toro engine, there is likely little wrong with it. I personally do not have one but have heard nothing but good about that engine. The advantages of the MX5050 is that you can have 24.5hp and ZT-2800's. Depending on how much you are cutting, the serviceability of the better hydrostatics might save you long term should the ZT-2200's in the MX5025 end up having issues.
#21
J
Jimboh
J
Jimboh
Cutting about 1.3 acres. I think any of them would be sufficient but narrowing it down is the hard part
#22
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
yes.
To date I have sent 3 kawasaki egine to the dealer for warranty repairs because the single bolt holding the rocker mechanism came loose ( dealer did not check it on 1st service )
Two cases it just totalled the head, third one trashed the engine.
In theory the kawasaki is a better engine which is why it is more expensive.
In reality there is little difference.
Honda stopped supplying engines because they could not make a product of sufficient quality to carry the Honda name for the prices the mower companies were willing to pay.
So it is really a pointless Chev vs Ford type of arguement
To date I have sent 3 kawasaki egine to the dealer for warranty repairs because the single bolt holding the rocker mechanism came loose ( dealer did not check it on 1st service )
Two cases it just totalled the head, third one trashed the engine.
In theory the kawasaki is a better engine which is why it is more expensive.
In reality there is little difference.
Honda stopped supplying engines because they could not make a product of sufficient quality to carry the Honda name for the prices the mower companies were willing to pay.
So it is really a pointless Chev vs Ford type of arguement
#23
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
Jimboh,
What are your thoughts? Have you made a decision yet? I know the mowing season is still a while away for some of us, but the excitement has some of us anxious to get out there and cut!!
What are your thoughts? Have you made a decision yet? I know the mowing season is still a while away for some of us, but the excitement has some of us anxious to get out there and cut!!
#24
7394
Bring yer mower over to my place, I'll let you mow till yer hearts content.
7394
Jimboh,
What are your thoughts? Have you made a decision yet? I know the mowing season is still a while away for some of us, but the excitement has some of us anxious to get out there and cut!!
Bring yer mower over to my place, I'll let you mow till yer hearts content.
#25
J
Jimboh
No definite decision made yet but I am very heavily leaning towards the Toro MX5025. I like that it’s fab deck, kawi engine and has the larger 18” seat as well as the larger front and rear tires. The seat was important to me as I am 6’4” so I want it to be comfortable for a bigger guy. There is a Toro dealer about 30 minutes away from the new house and it’s in Tax Free Delaware so that’s enticing. Next time I go to check the progress of the house I’ll be swinging by there to check the place out. Gravely and hustler are still in the running but after having a toro push mower that lasted me many years longer than it probably should have, makes me lean toward being brand loyal
J
Jimboh
Jimboh,
What are your thoughts? Have you made a decision yet? I know the mowing season is still a while away for some of us, but the excitement has some of us anxious to get out there and cut!!
No definite decision made yet but I am very heavily leaning towards the Toro MX5025. I like that it’s fab deck, kawi engine and has the larger 18” seat as well as the larger front and rear tires. The seat was important to me as I am 6’4” so I want it to be comfortable for a bigger guy. There is a Toro dealer about 30 minutes away from the new house and it’s in Tax Free Delaware so that’s enticing. Next time I go to check the progress of the house I’ll be swinging by there to check the place out. Gravely and hustler are still in the running but after having a toro push mower that lasted me many years longer than it probably should have, makes me lean toward being brand loyal
#26
P
Point37
P
Point37
i was looking at the mx4250...be aware of toros automatic parking brake...i've read problems with them locking the mower up to where it will start but not move...there is a way to manually disengage but it something stupid in the design that should just be a manual lever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUi9olZphvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AsjxkrNDiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUi9olZphvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AsjxkrNDiU
#27
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
I say go for the Toro if you like it. Their mowers make a good cut, just be sure to properly inflate the tires and level the deck both ways before you use it. As for the parking brake, don't let a "potential" failure keep you from it, as there are many other things that could go wrong, just a matter of chance and how you care for your equipment.
#28
P
Point37
i'm just saying there is a pretty good potential when there is a service bulletin from toro out about it, a bunch of hits on google and youtube as well and there are quite a few threads on this site alone...i've also read that the electronic parking brake module can keep a slight draw on the battery when the mower is off and kill the battery...i'm only saying cause i was heavily favoring the toro mx4250 over the exmark quest but just due to this stupid flaw in the design or purposefully done for an easy way for toro to make money on repairs...the exmark has a hand brake so i'm leaning that way now...
https://lookup3.toro.com/ttcGateway/serv/bltn/to/f/tfz031_1.htm
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/35942-S5000-Zero-turn-locked-up
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...-Something-Funny-Going-On-With-Brake-Actuator
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/30710-Toro-MX-5060-brake-module-malfunctioning
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...74140-seat-bypass-parking-break-switch-issues
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/11572-Toro-SS-5060-running-but-won-t-move
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/8533-Toro-timecutter-ss5000
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/36398-Toro-Timecutter-won-t-move
P
Point37
I say go for the Toro if you like it. Their mowers make a good cut, just be sure to properly inflate the tires and level the deck both ways before you use it. As for the parking brake, don't let a "potential" failure keep you from it, as there are many other things that could go wrong, just a matter of chance and how you care for your equipment.
i'm just saying there is a pretty good potential when there is a service bulletin from toro out about it, a bunch of hits on google and youtube as well and there are quite a few threads on this site alone...i've also read that the electronic parking brake module can keep a slight draw on the battery when the mower is off and kill the battery...i'm only saying cause i was heavily favoring the toro mx4250 over the exmark quest but just due to this stupid flaw in the design or purposefully done for an easy way for toro to make money on repairs...the exmark has a hand brake so i'm leaning that way now...
https://lookup3.toro.com/ttcGateway/serv/bltn/to/f/tfz031_1.htm
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/35942-S5000-Zero-turn-locked-up
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...-Something-Funny-Going-On-With-Brake-Actuator
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/30710-Toro-MX-5060-brake-module-malfunctioning
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...74140-seat-bypass-parking-break-switch-issues
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/11572-Toro-SS-5060-running-but-won-t-move
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/8533-Toro-timecutter-ss5000
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/36398-Toro-Timecutter-won-t-move
#29
C
cruzenmike
In no way am I saying that it is perfect, as it is just one more thing that can go wrong. I too don't care much for it, but I think the rate of failure is likely lower than you think; that whole thing about people with bad experiencing being 10x more likely to share their bad experience and so on. Either way, if a manual brake is something that eliminates the potential for a failure down the road, then lean that way. For the year that I had my Toro I was quite pleased with it, but then again, I only had it a year so it gave me no problems; sold because I really didn't need a ZTR for a quarter of an acre.
C
cruzenmike
i'm just saying there is a pretty good potential when there is a service bulletin from toro out about it, a bunch of hits on google and youtube as well and there are quite a few threads on this site alone...i've also read that the electronic parking brake module can keep a slight draw on the battery when the mower is off and kill the battery...i'm only saying cause i was heavily favoring the toro mx4250 over the exmark quest but just due to this stupid flaw in the design or purposefully done for an easy way for toro to make money on repairs...the exmark has a hand brake so i'm leaning that way now...
https://lookup3.toro.com/ttcGateway/serv/bltn/to/f/tfz031_1.htm
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/35942-S5000-Zero-turn-locked-up
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...-Something-Funny-Going-On-With-Brake-Actuator
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/30710-Toro-MX-5060-brake-module-malfunctioning
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...74140-seat-bypass-parking-break-switch-issues
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/11572-Toro-SS-5060-running-but-won-t-move
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/8533-Toro-timecutter-ss5000
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/36398-Toro-Timecutter-won-t-move
In no way am I saying that it is perfect, as it is just one more thing that can go wrong. I too don't care much for it, but I think the rate of failure is likely lower than you think; that whole thing about people with bad experiencing being 10x more likely to share their bad experience and so on. Either way, if a manual brake is something that eliminates the potential for a failure down the road, then lean that way. For the year that I had my Toro I was quite pleased with it, but then again, I only had it a year so it gave me no problems; sold because I really didn't need a ZTR for a quarter of an acre.
#30
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Being a Toro guy and working for a Toro dealer, I have not seen or heard about problems with the automatic parking brake. It might be out there but not around here. As far as the Toro engine, it has been a great performer for us.
#31
J
Jimboh
J
Jimboh
One dealer sold both Toro & Hustler. He said that he thought Hustler made a far superior product at the residential level. However I couldn’t help but notice he didn’t have any residential Toros on his floor. Was he just trying to move the stock he had or is hustler really better? Comparing specs between similar models they seem to close to call for me
#32
BlazNT
BlazNT
Dealers are salespeople. Enough said.
#33
P
Point37
P
Point37
reading reviews also helped...most of the low reviews with the toros have to do with the parking brake module either locking up the machine or killing the battery...
https://www.mowersdirect.com/Toro-74721-Lawn-Mower/p15362.html
https://www.mowersdirect.com/Toro-74721-Lawn-Mower/p15362.html
#34
B
bertsmobile1
I have problems wit them, but I don't own one, just try to service them.
The customers do not seem to have any problems with them after they get used to them.
And yes I generally flatten the battery cause I set them wrong overnight.
B
bertsmobile1
reading reviews also helped...most of the low reviews with the toros have to do with the parking brake module either locking up the machine or killing the battery...
https://www.mowersdirect.com/Toro-74721-Lawn-Mower/p15362.html
I have problems wit them, but I don't own one, just try to service them.
The customers do not seem to have any problems with them after they get used to them.
And yes I generally flatten the battery cause I set them wrong overnight.
#35
7394
7394
There are a few TimeCutters in my area & they all seem to be doing good. Including mine.
I do see Kohler has lowered it's engine warranty to only 2 years. My KW was 3 years.
I do see Kohler has lowered it's engine warranty to only 2 years. My KW was 3 years.