SOLVED - TORO ZS5000 - nothing happening when turning ignition key...no problems the day before. (FAULTY SOLENOID)

When I jump the solenoid, it starts, no problem. All safety brake systems are working, etc. I'm pretty sure it solenoid is not functioning anymore, even though I can hear a click when turning the key. (The click is not as loud as the ones I have heard in youtube videos..). I've ordered a new solenoid. It will take some time to arrive. In the meantime, I have done the mowing job that needed to be done by starting it through jumping the solenoid.
 
Stop BUYING crap and TEST what you have.

1.Remove negative battery cable FROM the battery.
2.With a helper person, turn the key to START.
3.Multi-meter on Ohms, measure ACROSS the solenoid. One cable in one cable out deal. Tell us what you see on your meter in Ohms. Do this several times to get say an average reading. Really will take one time to tell me what is up or not with it. Report back here.
 
I would follow sgkent's suggestions, but first you can test the solenoid. Remove the two small wires from the solenoid. Connect a jumper wire from the green one to a good ground point. Momentarily, jump across the large battery connection, of the solenoid, to the other small connection. The solenoid should click and the starter turn. If not, then the solenoid is bad. If it does, connect the blue wires. Turn the key switch to START and the starter should turn. If not, you're not getting the 12v+ from the key switch. Not having the wiring diagram, I don't know if this is a direct connection. If it is, could be dirty switch connection or bad key switch. If the starter does spin, then there is something in the ground circuit. This could be safety or controller issue.
 
I have Toro Timecutter and I'll be polite and not express my opinion how overdone it is on "safety" precautions making it super complicated to start.
Anyhow.
Here's read for you:
chatgpt.com

12V Starter Requirements

ChatGPT helps you get answers, find inspiration, and be more productive.
chatgpt.com chatgpt.com
 
slomo said:
Stop BUYING crap and TEST what you have.

1.Remove negative battery cable FROM the battery.
2.With a helper person, turn the key to START.
3.Multi-meter on Ohms, measure ACROSS the solenoid. One cable in one cable out deal. Tell us what you see on your meter in Ohms. Do this several times to get say an average reading. Really will take one time to tell me what is up or not with it. Report back here.
Click to expand...

Hi Slomo,

It is unclear to me how to proceed with point 3. (I do not know the official terms nor the unofficial expressions when it comes to working on electricity). Where do I put the black cable of the multi meter and where the red one? Also, what Ohm setting on the multi meter? I have 200 - 2k - 20k and 200k...
 
I.Q. said:
Hi folks,

SHORT STORY

I've got the TORO Timecutter ZS5000 (not the latest version, some 7 years old). Worked with it on Friday without a problem. Saturday, however, it would not start. Nothing.
The following parts do *not* seem to be causing the problem: the battery; the electronic park break module; the push button brake switches on the levers/arms; (the security seat switch is not involved in the starting, only when the PTO is engaged); the fuses; the starter; the PTO switch; the ignition/keyswitch; the engine itself.

That leaves me with the solenoid, and the wiring between the ignition/keyswitch and the solenoid. (Am I missing something?).

I don't quite understand why I do hear a click in the solenoid (which suggests that it works, although the click really is not very loud), but cannot measure any significant voltage coming from the ignition to the solenoid (I measured 0.01V at one point). If I hear the click, that should mean that electricity comes through to the solenoid, right? EDIT: I was measuring the wrong post (the one with the green wire). When measuring the post with the blue wire, it does give 12V, and the blue wire is the one between the solenoid and the keyswitch, not the green wire. I think I mixed them up because in some youtube movies, the solenoid is set up exactly the other way around, and I was not paying attention to the colour of the wires.

Anyway, none of the posts that are on the starter unit side of the solenoid give 12V when the ignition key is in the START-position. This is not good.

How can I be sure it is the solenoid that needs replacing? How can I test if it is a broken wire problem?

Any help and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.


LONG STORY

Friday it works without a problem. (Starting it took some time, because I had not used it for a number of months. I had forgotten to disconnect the battery before the inactivity, but had charged the battery beforehand). Saturday, however, it would not start. When I turn the key in the ON position, I hear a soft click coming from the engine. Also, I hear the park break sound when bringing in the arms/levers. That should mean that electronic park break module is functional and that there is juice in the battery. When measured, the battery is 13,8V. (After having had it on a battery charger for a couple of hours. Sunday: down to 12,7V, b.t.w.).

When turning the key from the ON position into the STARTER position, I do hear the click from the solenoid. (The click is not very loud, though. I have heard a louder click of similar solenoids in youtube videos).

However, the signalwire from the keyswitch/ignition to the small LEFT pole (that is: the starter-side of the) solenoid did NOT make my (basic) electricity testing screwdriver light up when trying the starter key (I measured 0.01V with a voltage meter, at one point). As far as I understand, that should light up, because that signalwire should “switch” on the solenoid so that power from the battery is transferred to the starter unit on the engine. So, although I do hear a click in the solenoid suggesting a “switch on” when trying to start it, it does not result in voltage being put through. The pole of the solenoid that is connected to the + pole of the battery does give the same voltage as the battery. The pole on the other side of the solenoid gives 0 Volts no matter what I do. (I might have the function of small poles on each side of the solenoid mixed up/not correct..?)

I checked, cleaned an re-seated the connectors of the keyswitch/ignition and the blade activator/stopper switch (PTO). Made no difference.

I checked the voltage on all poles of the ignition/keyswitch, and in the ON position, all but the pole with the blue wire gave the same voltage as the battery. From looking at a service manual, the blue wire pole is the #1 pole which is the “start” pole. With the keyswitch turned to start, this pole gives the same voltage as the battery.

Checked the two fuses, both still good, both getting the same voltage as battery when ignition in ON position.

I re-seated the electronic park break module plug (as I read this solved the no starting issue for someone. Alas, not for me).

I can start the engine by shorting the solenoid poles with a screwdriver. So, the starter unit is still good.

I'm starting to think that maybe the solenoid is not functioning properly and/or there is something wrong with the wiring coming from the ignition going to the solenoid (through the electric break system, right?).

The following parts do *not* seem to be causing the problem: the battery; the electronic park break module; the push button brake switches on the levers/arms; (the security seat switch is not involved in the starting, only when the PTO is engaged); the fuses; the starter; the PTO switch; the ignition/keyswitch.

That leaves me with the solenoid, and the wiring between the ignition/keyswitch and the solenoid. (Am I missing something?).
I don't quite understand why I do hear a click in the solenoid (which suggests that it works), but cannot measure any significant voltage coming from the ignition to the solenoid (I measured 0.01V at one point). If I hear the click, that should mean that electricity comes through to the solenoid, right? EDIT: I was measuring the wrong post (the one with the green wire). When measuring the post with the blue wire, it does give 12V, and the blue wire is the one between the solenoid and the keyswitch, not the green wire. I think I mixed them up because in some youtube movies, the solenoid is set up exactly the other way around, and I was not paying attention to the colour of the wires.

Anyway, none of the posts that are on the starter unit side of the solenoid give 12V when the ignition key is in the START-position. This is not good.

How can I be sure it is the solenoid that needs replacing? How can I test if it is a wire problem?

Any help and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.


I.Q.
Click to expand...
The solenoid clicking you hear indicates 12v power is reaching solenoid and engaging the coil but it isn't making contact thru the points so it's not attempting to start check the output side of solenoid to verify.
 
Put your meter on 200 ohms. Unplug both of the small connections. Put one meter lead on each solenoid small connections and read the output. Should be a low value, but not zero.
 
I.Q. said:
Hi folks,

SHORT STORY

I've got the TORO Timecutter ZS5000 (not the latest version, some 7 years old). Worked with it on Friday without a problem. Saturday, however, it would not start. Nothing.
The following parts do *not* seem to be causing the problem: the battery; the electronic park break module; the push button brake switches on the levers/arms; (the security seat switch is not involved in the starting, only when the PTO is engaged); the fuses; the starter; the PTO switch; the ignition/keyswitch; the engine itself.

That leaves me with the solenoid, and the wiring between the ignition/keyswitch and the solenoid. (Am I missing something?).

I don't quite understand why I do hear a click in the solenoid (which suggests that it works, although the click really is not very loud), but cannot measure any significant voltage coming from the ignition to the solenoid (I measured 0.01V at one point). If I hear the click, that should mean that electricity comes through to the solenoid, right? EDIT: I was measuring the wrong post (the one with the green wire). When measuring the post with the blue wire, it does give 12V, and the blue wire is the one between the solenoid and the keyswitch, not the green wire. I think I mixed them up because in some youtube movies, the solenoid is set up exactly the other way around, and I was not paying attention to the colour of the wires.

Anyway, none of the posts that are on the starter unit side of the solenoid give 12V when the ignition key is in the START-position. This is not good.

How can I be sure it is the solenoid that needs replacing? How can I test if it is a broken wire problem?

Any help and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.


LONG STORY

Friday it works without a problem. (Starting it took some time, because I had not used it for a number of months. I had forgotten to disconnect the battery before the inactivity, but had charged the battery beforehand). Saturday, however, it would not start. When I turn the key in the ON position, I hear a soft click coming from the engine. Also, I hear the park break sound when bringing in the arms/levers. That should mean that electronic park break module is functional and that there is juice in the battery. When measured, the battery is 13,8V. (After having had it on a battery charger for a couple of hours. Sunday: down to 12,7V, b.t.w.).

When turning the key from the ON position into the STARTER position, I do hear the click from the solenoid. (The click is not very loud, though. I have heard a louder click of similar solenoids in youtube videos).

However, the signalwire from the keyswitch/ignition to the small LEFT pole (that is: the starter-side of the) solenoid did NOT make my (basic) electricity testing screwdriver light up when trying the starter key (I measured 0.01V with a voltage meter, at one point). As far as I understand, that should light up, because that signalwire should “switch” on the solenoid so that power from the battery is transferred to the starter unit on the engine. So, although I do hear a click in the solenoid suggesting a “switch on” when trying to start it, it does not result in voltage being put through. The pole of the solenoid that is connected to the + pole of the battery does give the same voltage as the battery. The pole on the other side of the solenoid gives 0 Volts no matter what I do. (I might have the function of small poles on each side of the solenoid mixed up/not correct..?)

I checked, cleaned an re-seated the connectors of the keyswitch/ignition and the blade activator/stopper switch (PTO). Made no difference.

I checked the voltage on all poles of the ignition/keyswitch, and in the ON position, all but the pole with the blue wire gave the same voltage as the battery. From looking at a service manual, the blue wire pole is the #1 pole which is the “start” pole. With the keyswitch turned to start, this pole gives the same voltage as the battery.

Checked the two fuses, both still good, both getting the same voltage as battery when ignition in ON position.

I re-seated the electronic park break module plug (as I read this solved the no starting issue for someone. Alas, not for me).

I can start the engine by shorting the solenoid poles with a screwdriver. So, the starter unit is still good.

I'm starting to think that maybe the solenoid is not functioning properly and/or there is something wrong with the wiring coming from the ignition going to the solenoid (through the electric break system, right?).

The following parts do *not* seem to be causing the problem: the battery; the electronic park break module; the push button brake switches on the levers/arms; (the security seat switch is not involved in the starting, only when the PTO is engaged); the fuses; the starter; the PTO switch; the ignition/keyswitch.

That leaves me with the solenoid, and the wiring between the ignition/keyswitch and the solenoid. (Am I missing something?).
I don't quite understand why I do hear a click in the solenoid (which suggests that it works), but cannot measure any significant voltage coming from the ignition to the solenoid (I measured 0.01V at one point). If I hear the click, that should mean that electricity comes through to the solenoid, right? EDIT: I was measuring the wrong post (the one with the green wire). When measuring the post with the blue wire, it does give 12V, and the blue wire is the one between the solenoid and the keyswitch, not the green wire. I think I mixed them up because in some youtube movies, the solenoid is set up exactly the other way around, and I was not paying attention to the colour of the wires.

Anyway, none of the posts that are on the starter unit side of the solenoid give 12V when the ignition key is in the START-position. This is not good.

How can I be sure it is the solenoid that needs replacing? How can I test if it is a wire problem?

Any help and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.


I.Q.
Click to expand...
Do these 2 things if you have not already done so. REMOVE and Clean Battery Ground and other Terminals.
Hook them up to a Fresh Battery that is fully Charged. Simple stuff First. Then check starter and Solenoid Terminals. Remove and clean to bright metal.
 
Does the click you are hearing click when you turn the switch on or turn it to start?? If when you turn it on it is the anfterfire solenoid in the carburetor/ If when you turn to start feel the solenoid as you turn to start and see if it is being energized. You did say that when you jumped the battery to the solenoid it turns the engine so that would eliminate the solenoid and starter.
If the switches pass testing i would check the brake module as Toro has had issues with corrosion issues with the electrical connection. Don't remember if the operators manual has troubleshooting for the brake or not.
 

Attachments

2015 Brake Control Module on all TimeCutters
The Brake Control Module has had some issues over
the past couple of years due to moisture getting into
the electrical plug and connector area. If corrosion is
found in the connection, both the brake module and
the wire harness should be replaced.

SW/SWX Electrical System
Diagnostics
The electrical system on the SW/SWX series
TimeCutter is slightly more complicated than the
SS/MX series. These additional switches must be
considered in addition to the normal troubleshooting
procedure.
Forward & Reverse Motion Control switches
• Located in the Neutral Return Assembly
• Symptoms: Machine won’t start/crank, drive system
locks up, and/or engine intermittently cuts out.
Over-ride Switch and Over-ride Light Circuit
• Controls No Mow in Reverse feature
• Symptoms: Engine cuts out in reverse
Electronic Brake Switch (Smart Park)
• Located on right side pod
• Symptoms: Machine won’t start/crank, drive system
locks up, and/or engine intermittently cuts out
Electrical Testing Tip
The proper testing procedure for all electrical circuits
is to use a digital voltmeter and record your voltage
readings. Using a test light or a continuity tester
may result in false readings and will not provide the
information needed to properly diagnose the electrical
issue. Please refer to the Operator’s Manual for a full
wiring schematic for your specific model.
1773502915325.png
 
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