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Simplicity ZT 16 44 runs and mows great for 30 Minutes the dies.

#1

T

thood1954

This zero turn mower I just got at an auction runs great for about 30 minutes. Then dies. I think its getting hot. Afterwards there is oil on top of the flat plate that says hot. After the mower is completely cooled it is ready to mow again.


#2

7394

7394

I would remove the engine cover & make sure there is no debris in & around the cylinder fins. From auction, no telling when that was last done.

Make sure the whole engine under that cover is clean.


#3

B

bertsmobile1

After you have cleaned everything up get an inline spark tester and a can of carb clean.

Next time it stops quickly take the cover off and check for a spark when cranking

If you have spark, loosen the fuel cap and try to start the engine

After that take the air filter off and give the carb a SMALL SHORT SHOT of carb cleaner and try to start.
If it fires right up you have a fuel supply problem.

Get back with what you found.


#4

T

thood1954

7394 said:
I would remove the engine cover & make sure there is no debris in & around the cylinder fins. From auction, no telling when that was last done.

Make sure the whole engine under that cover is clean.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the cover tilt forward enough to do this without removing? It's a zero turn.


#5

7394

7394

My Toro is ZTR as well, best inspection is by simply removing the engine blower housing. I don't understand about you saying tilting it forward ?


#6

T

thood1954

7394 said:
My Toro is ZTR as well, best inspection is by simply removing the engine blower housing. I don't understand about you saying tilting it forward ?
Click to expand...
Do you have a pic? I have no manual and don't know where the engine blower housing is located.


#7

B

bertsmobile1

1) Locate your model & serial number then go to toro.com and download the owners, parts & service manuals sor your mower.
No excuses cause they are free.
2) go to the engine makers web site and download the parts book for the engine.
Kawakasi have service manuals on line, Brige are all over the web, Kohler have them on their web site.
If it is a toro branded Loncin then you are out of luck.

The blower housing is the plastic bit on the top of the engine that tha a fan underneath it to blow cooling air o the engine, this it is called a blower housing in the USA, engine cowel in the UK or shroud down here.


#8

T

thood1954

bertsmobile1 said:
1) Locate your model & serial number then go to toro.com and download the owners, parts & service manuals sor your mower.
No excuses cause they are free.
2) go to the engine makers web site and download the parts book for the engine.
Kawakasi have service manuals on line, Brige are all over the web, Kohler have them on their web site.
If it is a toro branded Loncin then you are out of luck.

The blower housing is the plastic bit on the top of the engine that tha a fan underneath it to blow cooling air o the engine, this it is called a blower housing in the USA, engine cowel in the UK or shroud down here.
Click to expand...
No results shown on Toro.com for my model number. Will see if I can clean out under that cover.


#9

T

thood1954

thood1954 said:
No results shown on Toro.com for my model number. Will see if I can clean out under that cover.
Click to expand...
Downloaded a Manual from a Simplicity page. Indeed, it suggests a clean out when the engine is running hot. Fingers crossed.


#10

T

thood1954

thood1954 said:
Downloaded a Manual from a Simplicity page. Indeed, it suggests a clean out when the engine is running hot. Fingers crossed.
Click to expand...
Popped off the round plastic cover. Now I'm looking at a large nut in the center and 4 other smaller ones around it. Or would I have to remove what appears to be a plastic cover which looks like it covers the whole top of the engine?


#11

B

bertsmobile1

Sorry about the red herring. no Idea why I wrote Toro in place of Simplicity.

The bit you remove is the large cover usually held on by 4 bolts, two at the front & two at the end.
None of them need to come out as the holes are slotted so undo them 3 turns and the top should pull off.


#12

7394

7394

Bert- My fault for adding the name of my machine. Sorry.


#13

T

thood1954

bertsmobile1 said:
Sorry about the red herring. no Idea why I wrote Toro in place of Simplicity.

The bit you remove is the large cover usually held on by 4 bolts, two at the front & two at the end.
None of them need to come out as the holes are slotted so undo them 3 turns and the top should pull off.
Click to expand...
I might have to remove a bar that runs across the top of that cover also. I know that the gas tank is one of the things mounted to it.


#14

T

thood1954

thood1954 said:
I might have to remove a bar that runs across the top of that cover also. I know that the gas tank is one of the things mounted to it.
Click to expand...
I took some pics now that I have the cover off. Hope they go through.

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#15

7394

7394

After seeing yer pics, I'd say you seriously need to gunk (de-grease) that engine, particularly around the cylinder, that has such a thick layer of caked on oily crud, that WILL cause it to overheat, & eventually kill that engine.

Those fins (in pic # 2) NEED to be clean to aid in cooling, as well as the rest of it. Don't get water into the coil connections or any electrical parts.


#16

T

thood1954

7394 said:
After seeing yer pics, I'd say you seriously need to gunk (de-grease) that engine, particularly around the cylinder, that has such a thick layer of caked on oily crud, that WILL cause it to overheat, & eventually kill that engine.

Those fins (in pic # 2) NEED to be clean to aid in cooling, as well as the rest of it. Don't get water into the coil connections or any electrical parts.
Click to expand...
I have some foamy engine cleaner on hand as well as other degreaser. When I was taking it apart, the gas tank started leaking from the grommet and the air filter was filthy. I went to a dealer and have those to install. I also need the U bar that goes across that the seat rests on. It's cracked in the middle and was welded at one time but broke again. It can be ordered but costs $90. I passed on it for now but wanted is ask you if there is another source through the internet where I might find one.


#17

T

thood1954

thood1954 said:
I have some foamy engine cleaner on hand as well as other degreaser. When I was taking it apart, the gas tank started leaking from the grommet and the air filter was filthy. I went to a dealer and have those to install. I also need the U bar that goes across that the seat rests on. It's cracked in the middle and was welded at one time but broke again. It can be ordered but costs $90. I passed on it for now but wanted is ask you if there is another source through the internet where I might find one.
Click to expand...
Cleaned mower and took 2 more pics. Look at those clumps of grease! Fixed gas tank and installed new air filter. Sadly, I still have the problem.

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#18

7394

7394

No offense, but you can't really call that engine clean, you seem to have just relocated the heaviest stuff to lower on the engine.

Air cooled engine needs all the engine clean & exposed to the blower on top.

I pull my engine cover end of each mow season. It's easy & best to be sure my engine is super clean.


About your broken bar, if it is hollow, you can find a solid bar that you force into the hollow bar. Then put both haves back together. It would be Stronger than a new one.


#19

T

thood1954

7394 said:
No offense, but you can't really call that engine clean, you seem to have just relocated the heaviest stuff to lower on the engine.

Air cooled engine needs all the engine clean & exposed to the blower on top.

I pull my engine cover end of each mow season. It's easy & best to be sure my engine is super clean.


About your broken bar, if it is hollow, you can find a solid bar that you force into the hollow bar. Then put both haves back together. It would be Stronger than a new one.
Click to expand...
The pics are of what I found. The engine is clean. I don't understand why the engine fins are covered by metal plates. (at least 3 different sections.) wouldn't this contribute to overheating as well as collecting gunk in between? I haven't looked at the spark plug yet either. The mower gets hot after a few minutes of mowing. I can feel intense heat coming off the right side onto my lower leg. The muffler is located on that side also. That bar is solid. I hoping to find one somewhere rather than paying $90 for one. I'm hoping this thing isn't a POS, I'm starting to wonder. Maybe I'll be able to take some more pics showing how the metal shielding is located on this engine. Unlike your Toro there's much more involved than loosening a few bolts. You have to take them completely out. It even looks like you have to take the muffler off to get one of those sections completely off. (I was able to get it real loose to clean behind it.) By the way, I appreciate your help, a zero turn is new to me, I'm used to riders. Still using a 15 year old Craftsman to get the grass mowed for now. Lol. I'm going to add 7 pics of what the mower looks like.


#20

7394

7394

thood1954 said:
The pics are of what I found. The engine is clean. I don't understand why the engine fins are covered by metal plates. (at least 3 different sections.) wouldn't this contribute to overheating as well as collecting gunk in between? I haven't looked at the spark plug yet either. The mower gets hot after a few minutes of mowing. I can feel intense heat coming off the right side onto my lower leg. The muffler is located on that side also. That bar is solid. I hoping to find one somewhere rather than paying $90 for one. I'm hoping this thing isn't a POS, I'm starting to wonder. Maybe I'll be able to take some more pics showing how the metal shielding is located on this engine. Unlike your Toro there's much more involved than loosening a few bolts. You have to take them completely out. It even looks like you have to take the muffler off to get one of those sections completely off. (I was able to get it real loose to clean behind it.) By the way, I appreciate your help, a zero turn is new to me, I'm used to riders. Still using a 15 year old Craftsman to get the grass mowed for now. Lol. I'm going to add 7 pics of what the mower looks like.
Click to expand...

Clean ? Not yet, in your latest pics anyhow..I see NO new pics ? And that is critical. Someone never took the time to keep the engine clean as it should be. If it was kept clean, all the disassembly would not be necessary.

And to why the fins have metal cover plates around them, that is to direct the air coming down from the blower (round thing on top of engine with the fins sticking up & rotates when running), the air must be contained so it can be directed to blow over the engine, thus cooling it. It yours was liquid cooled no cover plates would be necessary.

Check the spark plug, it 'should' have a tan to light brown color to it.

As to your solid bad, well, how about finding a hollow bar that is just slightly bigger & put it over the 2 sections.

The muffler: Can you look inside it & see if some critter hasn't built a nest in there, a partially blocked muffler will cause overheat as well.


#21

T

thood1954

7394 said:
Clean ? Not yet, in your latest pics anyhow..I see NO new pics ? And that is critical. Someone never took the time to keep the engine clean as it should be. If it was kept clean, all the disassembly would not be necessary.

And to why the fins have metal cover plates around them, that is to direct the air coming down from the blower (round thing on top of engine with the fins sticking up & rotates when running), the air must be contained so it can be directed to blow over the engine, thus cooling it. It yours was liquid cooled no cover plates would be necessary.

Check the spark plug, it 'should' have a tan to light brown color to it.

As to your solid bad, well, how about finding a hollow bar that is just slightly bigger & put it over the 2 sections.

The muffler: Can you look inside it & see if some critter hasn't built a nest in there, a partially blocked muffler will cause overheat as well.
Click to expand...
Here are some pics I took today of the mower including the spark plug. There is exhaust coming out of the muffler but I suppose it could be partially clogged.

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#22

7394

7394

Spark plug color looks fine. nice balanced gas/air mixture burn.

If the muffler were even partially plugged up, I'd expect to see a black sooty looking spark plug end.

Strange situation. If you got the engine REALLY clean, you should be running normal temps.


#23

T

thood1954

7394 said:
Spark plug color looks fine. nice balanced gas/air mixture burn.

If the muffler were even partially plugged up, I'd expect to see a black sooty looking spark plug end.

Strange situation. If you got the engine REALLY clean, you should be running normal temps.
Click to expand...
Well, I'm gonna have to let it sit for about a week. We're going on vacation and I'll work on it again after getting back. My mowing got done, thank god I have a spare.


#24

B

bertsmobile1

When you get back , read post # 3 do the tests required and post the results.

Stopping after 30 minutes could be because of the effect of the heat or it could be a fuel problem so we need to start there to determine where the problem lies.
Hope you enjoy the hols.


#25

T

thood1954

bertsmobile1 said:
When you get back , read post # 3 do the tests required and post the results.

Stopping after 30 minutes could be because of the effect of the heat or it could be a fuel problem so we need to start there to determine where the problem lies.
Hope you enjoy the hols.
Click to expand...

Took the mower to a amatuer repairman. He found the fuel pump was in pieces and didn't know how it even ran. He cleaned the entire fuel system. New fuel lines, filter, and fuel pump. He mowed his lawn with it for 20 minutes without a problem. The problem is that he is mowing a small area in a residential area rather than a rural lot which I have. (about 2 acres). After a cold start, it does mow great for about 20 to 25 minutes. Then it starts to sputter and overheat, eventually stalling. Then it needs to cool 30 minutes to an hour to be restarted. After restarting, it varies in run time. (12 to 20 minutes) He also told me the mower is of a poor design with the carb being located so close to the muffler. I have to keep my foot ahead of the brake pedal when mowing because of the heat. I believe the fuel is being boiled due to the intense heat. A fuel shut off was also added for safety when storing it when hot.


#26

E

enigma-2

Sounds like the float is sticking. I'd tear the carburetor down and soak it in cleaner.

You said "overheat". Does it backfire? (As in valve clearance changing.)


#27

B

bertsmobile1

You have been faffing around with this mower for 3 months now.
Back when you first posted you were told it could be heat, electrical or fuel starvation & you were asked to do some very simple tests.
These were to narrow down the causes so more detailed testing could be done.
You were asked a second time to do the tests but again did not.
You have the mower in front of you, we just have words on a screen.
As it is the mower has been abused so could have multiple problems.


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