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SCAG Patriot
#1
K
kingb0305
K
kingb0305
Does anyone have experience with the SCAG Patriot (formally the Freedom Z Pro)?
- Kawasaki FX Series engine
- ZT-3100 hydros
- 52" deck
- Sealed ball bearing spindles
- 22" drive tires, 13x5 caster tires
- Folding ROPS
I'm a homeowner with about 2.5 acres, various terrain, some debris. Looking for something that will last and remain fairly easy to maintain. It's a little more expensive than what I wanted to spend for a home use unit, but I'm finding you really do get what you pay for.... Also hoping that resale will be easier/better.
- Kawasaki FX Series engine
- ZT-3100 hydros
- 52" deck
- Sealed ball bearing spindles
- 22" drive tires, 13x5 caster tires
- Folding ROPS
I'm a homeowner with about 2.5 acres, various terrain, some debris. Looking for something that will last and remain fairly easy to maintain. It's a little more expensive than what I wanted to spend for a home use unit, but I'm finding you really do get what you pay for.... Also hoping that resale will be easier/better.
#2
M
Mad Mackie
M
Mad Mackie
Just looked at the specs on the Patriot and Scag has put a lot of features on this machine that were only found on higher end machines.
1st, the Kawasaki FX engine has the two stage air filtration system which is a big plus on Zero turn machines as they are inherently dusty.
ZT 3100 hydrostatic drives whereas the 2800 was the norm.
6.5 gallon fuel capacity with a quantity gauge.
Larger rear tires.
Foldable ROPS
Foot brake
Many machines have sealed spindle bearings which is becoming more common as time passes.
There are many potential ZTR customers that don't need a high end machine, but would like the option of a high end engine. This machine fits this situation.
I would recommend this machine, I don't know what the pricing is on the Patriot.
Just a few thoughts from Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:
1st, the Kawasaki FX engine has the two stage air filtration system which is a big plus on Zero turn machines as they are inherently dusty.
ZT 3100 hydrostatic drives whereas the 2800 was the norm.
6.5 gallon fuel capacity with a quantity gauge.
Larger rear tires.
Foldable ROPS
Foot brake
Many machines have sealed spindle bearings which is becoming more common as time passes.
There are many potential ZTR customers that don't need a high end machine, but would like the option of a high end engine. This machine fits this situation.
I would recommend this machine, I don't know what the pricing is on the Patriot.
Just a few thoughts from Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:
#3
S
Shughes717
If you can afford the mower it should last you 20 years or more. Scag makes a great product, and that is a low end commercial mower. Great choice for your application. The Freedom z would probably be plenty of mower for your lawn as well though.
S
Shughes717
Does anyone have experience with the SCAG Patriot (formally the Freedom Z Pro)?
- Kawasaki FX Series engine
- ZT-3100 hydros
- 52" deck
- Sealed ball bearing spindles
- 22" drive tires, 13x5 caster tires
- Folding ROPS
I'm a homeowner with about 2.5 acres, various terrain, some debris. Looking for something that will last and remain fairly easy to maintain. It's a little more expensive than what I wanted to spend for a home use unit, but I'm finding you really do get what you pay for.... Also hoping that resale will be easier/better.
If you can afford the mower it should last you 20 years or more. Scag makes a great product, and that is a low end commercial mower. Great choice for your application. The Freedom z would probably be plenty of mower for your lawn as well though.
#4
Carscw
Carscw
I also agree this is a great mower. Well worth the asking price. And as with any scag they resell easy.
#5
K
kingb0305
K
kingb0305
Is it fair to compare the SCAG Patriot (dealer selling for $6,500) to the Toro Titan MX ($5,700 w/Kohler Confidant), Ferris is700 ($6,500 w/kawasaki FS), Husqvarna MZT ($6k w/kawasaki FS)? The Kawasaki FX on Patriot is obviously better than options available on those mentioned, but most all other specs are about the same (tires, hydros, etc (MZT has better hydros and bigger tires)). Is there something else that makes the SCAG Patriot stand out in this low end commercial market? I know in the high end commercial world, SCAG is certainly one of the best. I don't know if that translates to one of the best in this line. Sorry, this may have crossed over to needing to be in the "Mower Buying and Pricing" forum, but I really wanted to hear from the SCAG group about the brand and their opinion of the entry level commercial units.
#6
Carscw
Unlike some on here I feel the only bad part of the scag is the Kawasaki engine.
I run mostly toro. I do have a scag and feel their decks are a lot better than the Toro's.
The quality of the cut is better then the Toro's. So why do I use mostly toro? They are better on hills. And parts are cheaper.
Carscw
Is it fair to compare the SCAG Patriot (dealer selling for $6,500) to the Toro Titan MX ($5,700 w/Kohler Confidant), Ferris is700 ($6,500 w/kawasaki FS), Husqvarna MZT ($6k w/kawasaki FS)? The Kawasaki FX on Patriot is obviously better than options available on those mentioned, but most all other specs are about the same (tires, hydros, etc (MZT has better hydros and bigger tires)). Is there something else that makes the SCAG Patriot stand out in this low end commercial market? I know in the high end commercial world, SCAG is certainly one of the best. I don't know if that translates to one of the best in this line. Sorry, this may have crossed over to needing to be in the "Mower Buying and Pricing" forum, but I really wanted to hear from the SCAG group about the brand and their opinion of the entry level commercial units.
Unlike some on here I feel the only bad part of the scag is the Kawasaki engine.
I run mostly toro. I do have a scag and feel their decks are a lot better than the Toro's.
The quality of the cut is better then the Toro's. So why do I use mostly toro? They are better on hills. And parts are cheaper.
#7
S
Shughes717
All of the brands you mentioned make excellent mowers. All have heavy duty fabricated decks. The Ferris and the MZT are comparable in that they offer the same drive train (FS series engine and heavier zt3400 hydros). Ther are many brands out there that offer the same drive train options. Hustler, Gravely, Bobcat, Bushhog, Kubota, Country Clipper, etc. As for price, are brands that offer the same drive train as the Scag Patriot at around $1000 to $1500 less. The Snapper Pro s50xt is an example. FX600v engine, zt3100 hydros, 48" Icd deck at $5k to $5500. All are good mowers. Everybody has their brand preference, but it's only opinion based. I am a fan of all of them, it's just that some of them are a bit over priced. Scag does have a great cutting deck. Does very well, even in wet grass.
S
Shughes717
Is it fair to compare the SCAG Patriot (dealer selling for $6,500) to the Toro Titan MX ($5,700 w/Kohler Confidant), Ferris is700 ($6,500 w/kawasaki FS), Husqvarna MZT ($6k w/kawasaki FS)? The Kawasaki FX on Patriot is obviously better than options available on those mentioned, but most all other specs are about the same (tires, hydros, etc (MZT has better hydros and bigger tires)). Is there something else that makes the SCAG Patriot stand out in this low end commercial market? I know in the high end commercial world, SCAG is certainly one of the best. I don't know if that translates to one of the best in this line. Sorry, this may have crossed over to needing to be in the "Mower Buying and Pricing" forum, but I really wanted to hear from the SCAG group about the brand and their opinion of the entry level commercial units.
All of the brands you mentioned make excellent mowers. All have heavy duty fabricated decks. The Ferris and the MZT are comparable in that they offer the same drive train (FS series engine and heavier zt3400 hydros). Ther are many brands out there that offer the same drive train options. Hustler, Gravely, Bobcat, Bushhog, Kubota, Country Clipper, etc. As for price, are brands that offer the same drive train as the Scag Patriot at around $1000 to $1500 less. The Snapper Pro s50xt is an example. FX600v engine, zt3100 hydros, 48" Icd deck at $5k to $5500. All are good mowers. Everybody has their brand preference, but it's only opinion based. I am a fan of all of them, it's just that some of them are a bit over priced. Scag does have a great cutting deck. Does very well, even in wet grass.
#8
K
kingb0305
K
kingb0305
My concern with the SCAG Patriot is, if you look in their equipment brochure, everything that sets SCAG apart (Velocity deck, turbo baffle, rear mounted anti-scalp rollers, steel alloy spindle, etc) is excluded from the Patriot, Freedom Z, and Liberty Z lines. I get that these mowers are lower end, but does that make them less "SCAG" and you really do end up paying the price for the name?
#9
S
Shughes717
Rear anti scalp wheels really mainly only benefit when mowing in reverse. The velocity deck does leave a great cut, but the decks on the patriot and liberty mowers are fine too. As for price... The price goes up on any brand when you are looking at models with commercial drive trains. Any brand you price that offers the engine hydro combo you mentioned is going to cost more than $5k. The mowers you mentioned are all well made machines
S
Shughes717
My concern with the SCAG Patriot is, if you look in their equipment brochure, everything that sets SCAG apart (Velocity deck, turbo baffle, rear mounted anti-scalp rollers, steel alloy spindle, etc) is excluded from the Patriot, Freedom Z, and Liberty Z lines. I get that these mowers are lower end, but does that make them less "SCAG" and you really do end up paying the price for the name?
Rear anti scalp wheels really mainly only benefit when mowing in reverse. The velocity deck does leave a great cut, but the decks on the patriot and liberty mowers are fine too. As for price... The price goes up on any brand when you are looking at models with commercial drive trains. Any brand you price that offers the engine hydro combo you mentioned is going to cost more than $5k. The mowers you mentioned are all well made machines
#10
Carscw
Carscw
The rear rollers are not anti scalp wheels.
#11
S
Shughes717
Probably for striping. Like the rubber flap on the back of the Icd deck.
S
Shughes717
The rear rollers are not anti scalp wheels.
Probably for striping. Like the rubber flap on the back of the Icd deck.
#12
K
kingb0305
I was just getting it from the literature, which says "Dual 12" rear-mounted anti-scalp rollers provide additional turf protection (one roller on SCZ48/52 models; excludes Patriot, Freedom Z, Liberty Z, and V-Ride mowers)." I'm not too worried about the rear mounted rollers. The point of my post was asking opinions if, by manufacturing a zero turn to compete in the low end commercial market, they took away what makes a SCAG a SCAG. The previous posts seemed to reinforce that the Advantage deck is still very good and this mower may be one of the better built entry level commercial units.
K
kingb0305
The rear rollers are not anti scalp wheels.
I was just getting it from the literature, which says "Dual 12" rear-mounted anti-scalp rollers provide additional turf protection (one roller on SCZ48/52 models; excludes Patriot, Freedom Z, Liberty Z, and V-Ride mowers)." I'm not too worried about the rear mounted rollers. The point of my post was asking opinions if, by manufacturing a zero turn to compete in the low end commercial market, they took away what makes a SCAG a SCAG. The previous posts seemed to reinforce that the Advantage deck is still very good and this mower may be one of the better built entry level commercial units.
#13
8
88bradb
I agree totally. Kinda like when John Deere started selling lower line mowers at Lowe's and Home Depot.SCAG has always stood for top of the line commercial zero turn mowers.Now,I'm not so sure.I love my 03 Tiger Cub,good thing because it will probably be the last mower I have to buy.
8
88bradb
I was just getting it from the literature, which says "Dual 12" rear-mounted anti-scalp rollers provide additional turf protection (one roller on SCZ48/52 models; excludes Patriot, Freedom Z, Liberty Z, and V-Ride mowers)." I'm not too worried about the rear mounted rollers. The point of my post was asking opinions if, by manufacturing a zero turn to compete in the low end commercial market, they took away what makes a SCAG a SCAG. The previous posts seemed to reinforce that the Advantage deck is still very good and this mower may be one of the better built entry level commercial units.
I agree totally. Kinda like when John Deere started selling lower line mowers at Lowe's and Home Depot.SCAG has always stood for top of the line commercial zero turn mowers.Now,I'm not so sure.I love my 03 Tiger Cub,good thing because it will probably be the last mower I have to buy.
#14
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
You are getting into marketing & manufacturing philosophy territory now.
There is 5/8 of SFA profit in making residential mowers because most of the buying public ultimately buys on price.
So you have to sell at an ever lowering profit margin or seriously downgrade the product to make a profit.
OTOH some times selling a cheap mower at cost or a slight loss can make an increase in profit as it reduces the unit cost of the profitable lines due to volume efficiencies.
Or there is a marketing theory that the name is the product and the mower is just a means of delivering it to the market so once you have a good name you can put it on any old mediocre product and that product will sell because of the name on it.
This also works well provided you don't put your name on garbage thus damaging your ultimate product ( your name ) Sarah Lea does this very well .
This is the philosophy behind things like Stihl entering the ride on market with a different brand, Viking , Stihl decide it was not worth the effort & got out.
John Deere testing the market with Scotts & Sabre slightly divorcing them from the JD name before finally deciding that segment of the market was profitable and launching fully into the bottom end residential mowers under their own name.
This has damaged the JD brand a little to the point that the buying public actually compare JD to others like Toro & Scag on a value for money basis.
There is also the customer loyality philosophy that you sell a better product at the bottom end at a loss in order to suck people into your brand and ultimately keep them all their life selling them progressively higher profit lines every time they upgrade.
Toyota use this method extensively hoping your cheapie first Toyota will be so good you will automatically upgrade to a bigger, better & more profitable one latter on. Ford & GM do not seem to understand this.
It is always easier & cheaper to keep an old customer satisified than to get a new one.
Snap on exploit this method 200%.
Their tools are good quality but not worth anywhere near the asking price. However they treat their customers very well and convince their customers Snap on are the greatest tool on earth so they end up happily spending $ 5000 for a cupboard to keep them in and become life long loyal customers. They follow this up by ensuring there is not a tool ever designed that you can not get with the Snap on brand so customers never need to leave the fold.
Now for all you Snap on devotees please note I did say they were good quality so hackles down it was just an example of this type of this marketing that every one is familiar with.
There is 5/8 of SFA profit in making residential mowers because most of the buying public ultimately buys on price.
So you have to sell at an ever lowering profit margin or seriously downgrade the product to make a profit.
OTOH some times selling a cheap mower at cost or a slight loss can make an increase in profit as it reduces the unit cost of the profitable lines due to volume efficiencies.
Or there is a marketing theory that the name is the product and the mower is just a means of delivering it to the market so once you have a good name you can put it on any old mediocre product and that product will sell because of the name on it.
This also works well provided you don't put your name on garbage thus damaging your ultimate product ( your name ) Sarah Lea does this very well .
This is the philosophy behind things like Stihl entering the ride on market with a different brand, Viking , Stihl decide it was not worth the effort & got out.
John Deere testing the market with Scotts & Sabre slightly divorcing them from the JD name before finally deciding that segment of the market was profitable and launching fully into the bottom end residential mowers under their own name.
This has damaged the JD brand a little to the point that the buying public actually compare JD to others like Toro & Scag on a value for money basis.
There is also the customer loyality philosophy that you sell a better product at the bottom end at a loss in order to suck people into your brand and ultimately keep them all their life selling them progressively higher profit lines every time they upgrade.
Toyota use this method extensively hoping your cheapie first Toyota will be so good you will automatically upgrade to a bigger, better & more profitable one latter on. Ford & GM do not seem to understand this.
It is always easier & cheaper to keep an old customer satisified than to get a new one.
Snap on exploit this method 200%.
Their tools are good quality but not worth anywhere near the asking price. However they treat their customers very well and convince their customers Snap on are the greatest tool on earth so they end up happily spending $ 5000 for a cupboard to keep them in and become life long loyal customers. They follow this up by ensuring there is not a tool ever designed that you can not get with the Snap on brand so customers never need to leave the fold.
Now for all you Snap on devotees please note I did say they were good quality so hackles down it was just an example of this type of this marketing that every one is familiar with.
#15
S
Shughes717
Man, your posts are long winded, but there is some truth in this one. I don't have the attention span, or the patience to type that much. I barely had enough to read it. :laughing:
S
Shughes717
You are getting into marketing & manufacturing philosophy territory now.
There is 5/8 of SFA profit in making residential mowers because most of the buying public ultimately buys on price.
So you have to sell at an ever lowering profit margin or seriously downgrade the product to make a profit.
OTOH some times selling a cheap mower at cost or a slight loss can make an increase in profit as it reduces the unit cost of the profitable lines due to volume efficiencies.
Or there is a marketing theory that the name is the product and the mower is just a means of delivering it to the market so once you have a good name you can put it on any old mediocre product and that product will sell because of the name on it.
This also works well provided you don't put your name on garbage thus damaging your ultimate product ( your name ) Sarah Lea does this very well .
This is the philosophy behind things like Stihl entering the ride on market with a different brand, Viking , Stihl decide it was not worth the effort & got out.
John Deere testing the market with Scotts & Sabre slightly divorcing them from the JD name before finally deciding that segment of the market was profitable and launching fully into the bottom end residential mowers under their own name.
This has damaged the JD brand a little to the point that the buying public actually compare JD to others like Toro & Scag on a value for money basis.
There is also the customer loyality philosophy that you sell a better product at the bottom end at a loss in order to suck people into your brand and ultimately keep them all their life selling them progressively higher profit lines every time they upgrade.
Toyota use this method extensively hoping your cheapie first Toyota will be so good you will automatically upgrade to a bigger, better & more profitable one latter on. Ford & GM do not seem to understand this.
It is always easier & cheaper to keep an old customer satisified than to get a new one.
Snap on exploit this method 200%.
Their tools are good quality but not worth anywhere near the asking price. However they treat their customers very well and convince their customers Snap on are the greatest tool on earth so they end up happily spending $ 5000 for a cupboard to keep them in and become life long loyal customers. They follow this up by ensuring there is not a tool ever designed that you can not get with the Snap on brand so customers never need to leave the fold.
Now for all you Snap on devotees please note I did say they were good quality so hackles down it was just an example of this type of this marketing that every one is familiar with.
Man, your posts are long winded, but there is some truth in this one. I don't have the attention span, or the patience to type that much. I barely had enough to read it. :laughing:
#17
8
88bradb
8
88bradb
I know people that have had to replace their John Deere from Home Depot after 5 years.That could tarnish a reputation and SCAG has worked hard for thiers.Just hate to see that happen over a cheaper model line.Just my 2¢,not trying to upset anyone or be a troll.
#19
R
rbeaman
R
rbeaman
I have a Scag Patriot with the 61 inch cut and the Kawasaki engine. So far so good. Did my 3 acre lawn in 2 hours v.s. the 3 1/2 hours it took on my old 42 inch John Deere tractor. So far I like the Scag Patriot. Seems like a well built unit. Only cut my grass four times so far this season.
#20
R
rbeaman
R
rbeaman
Yes, the big box store John Deere tractors are flimsy. My D130 deck was way too thin and weak and had to have my spindles straightened and one replaced. Only 65 hours of use. Sold it when I got my Scag Patriot.I know people that have had to replace their John Deere from Home Depot after 5 years.That could tarnish a reputation and SCAG has worked hard for thiers.Just hate to see that happen over a cheaper model line.Just my 2¢,not trying to upset anyone or be a troll.
#21
S
Shaunhr
S
Shaunhr
The scab patriot still stripes better. I owned Ferris mowers, they a great mowers, but do not stipe as well as the Scag Patriot.Probably for striping. Like the rubber flap on the back of the Icd deck.