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Repair Kubota

Mar 31, 2020#1

C

cambre

My Grasshopper with 25HP diesel engine runs about 30 seconds then dies. A new fuel filter did not help. Does this engine have a fuel pump? Thanks for any answer.

Mar 31, 2020#2

StarTech

It will have an injection pump for the fuel injectors.

Will need all the equipment numbers including the engine make and model numbers.

Mar 31, 2020#3

R

Rivets

Most Kubota’s have two fuel filters, in-line very close to each other. Don’t know if your Grasshopper has two?

Mar 31, 2020#4

cpurvis

Usually when a diesel dies from fuel exhaustion, there is no restarting it until you re-prime the system. Did you re-prime after changing the fuel filter?

Mar 31, 2020#5

Hammermechanicman

Most kubota's have 2 fuel filters and an electric fuel pump and then the injection pump. It sounds like the electric pump is failing. I have seen that symptom on kubota powered equipment a few times and it was always the electric pump. Be careful if it is the electric pump. Running the injection pump with no fuel can damage it.

Apr 1, 2020#6

C

cambre

StarTech said:
It will have an injection pump for the fuel injectors.

Will need all the equipment numbers including the engine make and model numbers.

Will get them posted

Apr 1, 2020#7

C

cambre

Rivets said:
Most Kubota’s have two fuel filters, in-line very close to each other. Don’t know if your Grasshopper has two?

All I see is one filter. When filter is changed does air get into fuel injection system? I have changed the filter before and did not have to bleed air out of fuel system. I will bleed system, easy enough to do to see if it helps. Thanks for answer, you have helped me before.

Apr 1, 2020#8

C

cambre

cpurvis said:
Usually when a diesel dies from fuel exhaustion, there is no restarting it until you re-prime the system. Did you re-prime after changing the fuel filter?

No but I will, thanks.

Apr 1, 2020#9

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
Most kubota's have 2 fuel filters and an electric fuel pump and then the injection pump. It sounds like the electric pump is failing. I have seen that symptom on kubota powered equipment a few times and it was always the electric pump. Be careful if it is the electric pump. Running the injection pump with no fuel can damage it.

Apr 1, 2020#10

C

cambre

Has no electric fuel pump. It's a diesel, has fuel injection. Thanks for answer.

Apr 1, 2020#11

Hammermechanicman

cambre said:
Has no electric fuel pump. It's a diesel, has fuel injection. Thanks for answer.

Kubota Electric Diesel Fuel Pump 12V

www.tractorlandparts.com

Apr 2, 2020#12

C

cambre

I know I can put an electric fuel pump on it. I have done it before. I bought the Grasshopper new and it came without an electric fuel pump.

Apr 2, 2020#13

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
Kubota Electric Diesel Fuel Pump 12V

www.tractorlandparts.com

Apr 2, 2020#14

C

cambre

Rivets said:
Most Kubota’s have two fuel filters, in-line very close to each other. Don’t know if your Grasshopper has two?

Apr 2, 2020#15

C

cambre

cambre said:
All I see is one filter. When filter is changed does air get into fuel injection system? I have changed the filter before and did not have to bleed air out of fuel system. I will bleed system, easy enough to do to see if it helps. Thanks for answer, you have helped me before.

Apr 2, 2020#16

C

cambre

My mistake, it does have 2 filters, one inline and one with a bowl. I cleaned bowl and replaced filter then bled system. It ran a little over 5 minutes then died. The clear line that connects to the top of fuel tank ( fuel return to fuel tank I think) is full of air bubbles, I don't know where other end of line goes. I will have to take some panels off to trace it. I am having a hard time figuring out how air is getting into fuel system. Thanks for helping.

Apr 4, 2020#17

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
Most kubota's have 2 fuel filters and an electric fuel pump and then the injection pump. It sounds like the electric pump is failing. I have seen that symptom on kubota powered equipment a few times and it was always the electric pump. Be careful if it is the electric pump. Running the injection pump with no fuel can damage it.

Mine has two filters and no electric fuel pump. It has a mechanical fuel pump.

Apr 4, 2020#18

R

Rivets

The return line may contain air, because it only returns fuel and fuel vapors to the tank from the carb.

Apr 4, 2020#19

Hammermechanicman

Almost all diesel motors have some sort of lift pump to supply fuel to the injector pump. The pump can be mechanical or electric. If the injection pump is sucking air and there are no leaks in the fuel line fuel is not being pushed to the injection pump.

Apr 6, 2020#20

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
Almost all diesel motors have some sort of lift pump to supply fuel to the injector pump. The pump can be mechanical or electric. If the injection pump is sucking air and there are no leaks in the fuel line fuel is not being pushed to the injection pump.

Has a mechanical fuel pump. I don't under stand why it will run find for 10 minutes then die. Thanks for answer.

Apr 6, 2020#21

Hammermechanicman

Do you mean a mechanical pump that feeds fuel to the injector pump? If so disconnect the line coming out and crank engine and see if fuel pulses out. If you can test fuel pressure check for around 5 to 7 psi out of the lift pump. Do you have any fuel in the crankcase oil? If so bad diaphragm in the lift pump.

Apr 6, 2020#22

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
Do you mean a mechanical pump that feeds fuel to the injector pump? If so disconnect the line coming out and crank engine and see if fuel pulses out. If you can test fuel pressure check for around 5 to 7 psi out of the lift pump. Do you have any fuel in the crankcase oil? If so bad diaphragm in the lift pump.

Yes, the fuel pump feeds the injector pump. I don't have anything to test fuel pressure. No fuel in crankcase oil. Thanks, I have a new filter bowl coming. Gonna try that. I'll let you know if it fixes problem.

Apr 12, 2020#23

C

cambre

I have made mistakes (this is nothing new) while trying to explain my problem. The engine has 2 filters. I put on a new fuel filter assembly (the large one) thinking the old one may have a pin hole in the plastic bowl. It has a mechanical fuel pump witch is pumping fuel. Changed small filter also. Still runs and dies. Next I changed all flexible fuel lines. Bled the system and it runs and dies. At my wits end. I did pull fuel line from fuel pump, it seems to pump plenty of fuel, at lease 5psi.

Apr 12, 2020#24

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
Almost all diesel motors have some sort of lift pump to supply fuel to the injector pump. The pump can be mechanical or electric. If the injection pump is sucking air and there are no leaks in the fuel line fuel is not being pushed to the injection pump.

The only thing I haven't done is pull the fuel line from the tank to see if any trash in it. Also the bleed bolt on the injector pump sprays plenty fuel,

Apr 12, 2020#25

Hammermechanicman

One of the things you can try is to check the fuel pickup in the tank then get a cheap 12v electric fuel pump and connect it directly from the tank to the injection pump. If it still won't run you may have an injector pump problem. If it runs good you know you have a problem between tank and injection pump.

Apr 12, 2020#26

cpurvis

Don't connect a line from the tank to the injection pump without a filter between the two. Injection pumps do not tolerate any dirt in the fuel.

Apr 13, 2020#27

C

cambre

Thanks, I will try that.

Apr 13, 2020#28

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
One of the things you can try is to check the fuel pickup in the tank then get a cheap 12v electric fuel pump and connect it directly from the tank to the injection pump. If it still won't run you may have an injector pump problem. If it runs good you know you have a problem between tank and injection pump.

I will try that.

Apr 13, 2020#29

C

cambre

cpurvis said:
Don't connect a line from the tank to the injection pump without a filter between the two. Injection pumps do not tolerate any dirt in the fuel.

So you mean to bypass the two original fuel filters and run a fuel line from the tank to injector pump with an electric fuel pump in the fuel line between tank and and injector pump. This reply is for Hammermechanicman also. I have a neighbor that told me he had same problem with a 25HP Kobota engine, He said he kept running it until it got rid of the air. He said it ran bad and gradually ran better and better. I started it today and started mowing thick grass. Putting a load on the engine, it has a little more than half the power before all this started. It ran for over 10 minutes and died. I let it sit for an hour and it started so I put it back in the shop. I will do the same thing in the morning. I am so glad I have you guys staying with me on this. Thanks.

Apr 13, 2020#30

cpurvis

cambre said:
So you mean to bypass the two original fuel filters and run a fuel line from the tank to injector pump with an electric fuel pump in the fuel line between tank and and injector pump. This reply is for Hammermechanicman also. I have a neighbor that told me he had same problem with a 25HP Kobota engine, He said he kept running it until it got rid of the air. He said it ran bad and gradually ran better and better. I started it today and started mowing thick grass. Putting a load on the engine, it has a little more than half the power before all this started. It ran for over 10 minutes and died. I let it sit for an hour and it started so I put it back in the shop. I will do the same thing in the morning. I am so glad I have you guys staying with me on this. Thanks.

If it has half the power that it used to have, that means it's getting half the fuel it used to get. Fuel flow restriction--or air--in the system will cause this.

I would start it and just let it run at about 1500 rpm and see if it shuts off again.

Apr 13, 2020#31

C

cambre

I believe it is getting enough fuel, I will try electric fuel pump with in line filter. This should give it more fuel if it needs it. Worth a try. I will let it run at 1500 rpm. Let you know what happens. Thanks

Apr 13, 2020#32

Hammermechanicman

Once you hook up an electric pump with a filter turn it on to pressurize the system and bleed the injector pump with the electric pump on. Within a few seconds of starting up the engine it should be running running normal with full power. If possible putting a T in the line and a fuel pressure gauge would be helpful.

Apr 14, 2020#33

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
Once you hook up an electric pump with a filter turn it on to pressurize the system and bleed the injector pump with the electric pump on. Within a few seconds of starting up the engine it should be running running normal with full power. If possible putting a T in the line and a fuel pressure gauge would be helpful.

Thanks for answer. Putting a T in the line sounds good. I will have to get a fuel pressure gauge. Will let you know what happens.

Apr 14, 2020#34

C

cambre

I ordered an electric fuel pump and a new mechanical fuel pump. Think I'll put put mechanical pump on first just to see if that's the problem. If that doesn't work I will put electric pump also. Wish me luck. Be a few days before I get them. If that doesn't work I will put a stick of dynamite on it and lite the fuse. Have a good nite. PS: I ran it today and first time it ran 13min., second time 8min, third time 10min.

Apr 25, 2020#35

C

cambre

I put on the new mechanical fuel pump, their was no change. I ordered fuel line T fittings two weeks ago and they are not in yet, tracking says May 7th. Electric fuel pump will go on when they come in. What I have been doing is when I start it I open ejectors one at a time and it seems I see fine small bubbles on top of the injector nut. I let it run about a minute and go to the next one. All three has thees has fine air bubbles. No air comes out of the ejector pump when I loosen the bleed bolt. I'm almost convinced its air in system. Maybe the electric pump will help remove air. What do you think Hammermechanic and cpurvis, or any one else who knows my problem. Thanks

Apr 25, 2020#36

Hammermechanicman

When you crack the nut on the top of the injectors do you loosen them enough to pull up on the ingector line to unseat the injector line? Just cracking the nut may not let it bleed properly. If your engine has a decompression valve open it and crank the engine and bleed the injectors. You should bleed the injector till no bubbles are coming out. You want a good bit of fuel coming out of the top of the injectors when bleeding them.

Apr 26, 2020#37

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
When you crack the nut on the top of the injectors do you loosen them enough to pull up on the ingector line to unseat the injector line? Just cracking the nut may not let it bleed properly. If your engine has a decompression valve open it and crank the engine and bleed the injectors. You should bleed the injector till no bubbles are coming out. You want a good bit of fuel coming out of the top of the injectors when bleeding them.

yes I do pull up on ejector lines. Thanks for answer.

Apr 26, 2020#38

C

cambre

I'm wondering that after Kubota engine dies and it sits for an hour and starts again, what was happening during that hour to allow it to start?

Apr 26, 2020#39

Hammermechanicman

I am going to assume the tank vent is working.

Apr 27, 2020#40

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
I am going to assume the tank vent is working.

The fuel cap vent is ok. Thanks for answering.

Apr 27, 2020#41

cpurvis

When it dies, does it slowly wind down or does it stop abruptly, as it does when you shut it down?

Apr 27, 2020#42

cpurvis

The reason I ask is, if the engine runs--then dies--and can be restarted, something is restricting the flow of fuel prior to it getting to the injection pump. It would not restart if it had gotten air in the system. If it starts, the injection system is primed.

Since replacing the fuel pump didn't fix anything, something else is restricting fuel flow to the engine. That 'something else' could be, but not limited to:

Fuel pickup in the tank
Fuel line from pickup to fuel pump
~~Fuel pump~~ replaced
Fuel filter
Fuel line from filter to injection pump

Apr 28, 2020#43

C

cambre

cpurvis said:
When it dies, does it slowly wind down or does it stop abruptly, as it does when you shut it down?

It slowly winds down. I have never heard of a diesel so hard to bleed. Must still be getting air in system. Thanks for staying with me on this. I had to brush hog my yard last week. No joke.

Apr 28, 2020#44

C

cambre

cpurvis said:
The reason I ask is, if the engine runs--then dies--and can be restarted, something is restricting the flow of fuel prior to it getting to the injection pump. It would not restart if it had gotten air in the system. If it starts, the injection system is primed.

Since replacing the fuel pump didn't fix anything, something else is restricting fuel flow to the engine. That 'something else' could be, but not limited to:

Fuel pickup in the tank

Fuel line from pickup to fuel pump

~~Fuel pump~~ replaced

Fuel filter

Fuel line from filter to injection pump

I can start engine and it will run awhile and dies. It will not restart until it sits a while, although it some times tries to start. The line inside the tank looks good, and cannot see any trash in the tank. I replaced all fuel lines. Fuel filters and mechanical fuel pump has been replaced. I know I told you this. I don't know how many people you post to, that's why I repeat.

Apr 28, 2020#45

M

mikebarber

I am livin in the old school of Kubotas and don't have a huge library on information to quickly look up configuration numbers and parts I own many Kubota diesel engines and I seem to remember most of them having a "lift pump" located on the side of the block with fuel lines going to and from it and usually there is a priming lever that is part of the pump to prime the system it makes the pump displace fuel when the lever is moved There is usually a small plug or bleeder screw on the injection pump located at least in the top 1/4 of the pump body because air rises If you get lucky and have the old school lever and bleeder on the pump crack open the bleeder and begin pumping Another issue Kubota has is a 3 wire run solenoid 1 wire is ground the other connecte to the starter to actuate the PULL IN COIL and the other wire goes to ignition for the HOLD IN COIL pull in coil is not strong enough to pull the plumger back into the coil so there is a pull in coil to do that the reason for this complexity is to limit the heat generated in the solenoid PULL IN COIL only operates while cranking

1 could be that hold in coil is bad allowing it to start then die when starter is released

2 could be a broken or loose wire in the harness to the solenoid

3 could be a bad keyswitch

4 I have a diesel 450d reelmaster that has a switch that cuts power to injection pump if the hydraulic tank is low

Bought that mower for $100
it has a gang of 5 powered reels that cuts 11 feet wide The guy didn't have a clue and it took a bit for me to figure it out and before people jump on me for taking advantage of someone he picked the price Gary

Apr 28, 2020#46

cpurvis

cambre said:
It slowly winds down. I have never heard of a diesel so hard to bleed. Must still be getting air in system. Thanks for staying with me on this. I had to brush hog my yard last week. No joke.

I DON'T think it's getting air in the system. If it was, you'd have to go through the whole bleeding process every time it dies. Let me get this straight--When it dies, you don't have to do anything other than let it sit for awhile before you can start it again?

If that's the case, something is cutting off the supply of fuel, not air getting in the fuel.

Can you remove the fuel tube from the tank?

Apr 28, 2020#47

C

cambre

cpurvis said:
I DON'T think it's getting air in the system. If it was, you'd have to go through the whole bleeding process every time it dies. Let me get this straight--When it dies, you don't have to do anything other than let it sit for awhile before you can start it again?

If that's the case, something is cutting off the supply of fuel, not air getting in the fuel.

Can you remove the fuel tube from the tank?

That is correct, it will run 10 or 15 minutes then dies. If it sits for an hour or so it will start and do the same, run and die. I have removed fuel tube from the tank and it looks ok. Looking in fuel tank with a flashlight I see no trash, all very clean. I also ran it with fuel cap off , no difference. When I do loosen the line on the injectors I see real fine air bubbles, or what I think is air bubbles, smaller than a pin head. It does that every time I loosen the lines. Did you understand what mikebarber was trying to say? I guess I will have to load it up on a trailer and take it to the grasshopper dealership where I bought it, I guess I hate to give up on trying to fix it myself. Thanks for help. Also, it puts out black smoke when trying to start it. Clears up after it starts.

Apr 28, 2020#48

cpurvis

If it starts on its own, the injection system does not need bleeding.

What is happening is the fuel flow to the injection pump is slightly less that what the engine needs to run. You can test this with a small container of diesel to replace the tank. A gallon or two will be plenty. Run the hose from the lift pump to this can and see if it continues running longer than it would with the fuel being drawn from the tank. ~~If it dies, the problem is in the tank. If it doesn't die, the tank is not the problem.~~ Correction: If it does NOT die, the problem IS in the tank.

If it dies again, the problem is somewhere between the tank and the fuel filter. Get an electric fuel pump and bypass the lift pump. If it still dies, check the fuel filter. Is it the right filter? Will it flow fuel?

No, I didn't follow mikebarbers thinking. Your lift pump is mechanical, isn't it? If so, there's no electricity to it to be cut off.

Apr 28, 2020#49

M

mikebarber

startup black smoke is normal Have you looked at the run solenoid on the injection pump?? Does it have the 3 wires I spoke of ? I should have gone back and looked I didn't think it ran that long so the solenoid issue is mute in that case Have you put a test light on the power to the solenoid to see if power goes away just before engine dies ??? It could be a delayed safety shutdown Too long of a delay for oil or temp in my opinion Corroded safety interlock that gets weak in that length of time ?? Hook test light to power inlet and watch it you will eliminate electric or fuel issue and only half as many things to check You have a fuel pressure gauge to put in the feed to the injector pump ??? If pressure stays up then u are looking ar injector pump problem if pressure goes to zero (or lower if u have combination pressure / vacuum gauge) then you have a restriction before the injector pump

Apr 28, 2020#50

M

mikebarber

"No, I didn't follow mikebarbers thinking. Your lift pump is mechanical, isn't it? If so, there's no electricity to it to be cut off. "

pump might be mechanical but think about how engine runs n stops usually a key switch operation to a solenoid

Apr 28, 2020#51

cpurvis

mikebarber said:
"No, I didn't follow mikebarbers thinking. Your lift pump is mechanical, isn't it? If so, there's no electricity to it to be cut off. "

pump might be mechanical but think about how engine runs n stops usually a key switch operation to a solenoid

I have thought about it. If the fuel cutoff is electric, the engine will die abruptly when that electricity is cut off, not wind down as the OP describes.

Apr 28, 2020#52

M

mikebarber

seems like there is often an exception if solenoid was sticky in the bore BUT AS I SAID I DIDN"T KNOW IT RAN THAT LONG YEP MY FAULT FOR SKIMMING OVER TOO QUICK

Apr 28, 2020#53

cpurvis

cambre, read this. This is from another post that has a 'similar' problem. It's a Kubota gas mower, but the problem is similar to yours:

Sharing this public service announcement for what it's worth as my local dealer says they've seen it on a number of the Kommander ZT's.

I have a 2013 ZG124E with a 48" deck. Last fall for no apparent reason I could think of, it started stalling & running rough. Like it couldn't get enough fuel. It would run okay for 5-10 under PTO load after I started and would stall. After that, I couldn't keep it going for more than several seconds. When I came back to it the next weekend, same thing.

I tried:

Cleaning the carb
Adding Dry Gas
Replacing the fuel filter
Replacing the air filter
Checking the plugs

All with no luck. After a conversation with the service guy at my Kubota dealer, he said it was likely tube mechanism going into the gas tank. There is a 90 degree bend which apparently allows debris (grass) to get stuck, limiting fuel flow. After it sits for 10 minutes or an hour or a day, gravity pulls the debris back into the tank where the cycle can start all over. How debris is getting in there is a mystery.

The fix is a new tube to insert into the gas tank which has a mesh screen on it. Cost me $18.

Took literally 2 minutes to install and the first time I started it, it ran as strong as ever.

Hope this saves some of you some time, money and headache!

Apr 29, 2020#54

C

cambre

cpurvis said:
cambre, read this. This is from another post that has a 'similar' problem. It's a Kubota gas mower, but the problem is similar to yours:

Sharing this public service announcement for what it's worth as my local dealer says they've seen it on a number of the Kommander ZT's.

I have a 2013 ZG124E with a 48" deck. Last fall for no apparent reason I could think of, it started stalling & running rough. Like it couldn't get enough fuel. It would run okay for 5-10 under PTO load after I started and would stall. After that, I couldn't keep it going for more than several seconds. When I came back to it the next weekend, same thing.

I tried:

Cleaning the carb

Adding Dry Gas

Replacing the fuel filter

Replacing the air filter

Checking the plugs

All with no luck. After a conversation with the service guy at my Kubota dealer, he said it was likely tube mechanism going into the gas tank. There is a 90 degree bend which apparently allows debris (grass) to get stuck, limiting fuel flow. After it sits for 10 minutes or an hour or a day, gravity pulls the debris back into the tank where the cycle can start all over. How debris is getting in there is a mystery.

The fix is a new tube to insert into the gas tank which has a mesh screen on it. Cost me $18.

Took literally 2 minutes to install and the first time I started it, it ran as strong as ever.

Hope this saves some of you some time, money and headache!

II will clean out the tube.

cpurvis said:
cambre, read this. This is from another post that has a 'similar' problem. It's a Kubota gas mower, but the problem is similar to yours:

Sharing this public service announcement for what it's worth as my local dealer says they've seen it on a number of the Kommander ZT's.

I have a 2013 ZG124E with a 48" deck. Last fall for no apparent reason I could think of, it started stalling & running rough. Like it couldn't get enough fuel. It would run okay for 5-10 under PTO load after I started and would stall. After that, I couldn't keep it going for more than several seconds. When I came back to it the next weekend, same thing.

I tried:

Cleaning the carb

Adding Dry Gas

Replacing the fuel filter

Replacing the air filter

Checking the plugs

All with no luck. After a conversation with the service guy at my Kubota dealer, he said it was likely tube mechanism going into the gas tank. There is a 90 degree bend which apparently allows debris (grass) to get stuck, limiting fuel flow. After it sits for 10 minutes or an hour or a day, gravity pulls the debris back into the tank where the cycle can start all over. How debris is getting in there is a mystery.

The fix is a new tube to insert into the gas tank which has a mesh screen on it. Cost me $18.

Took literally 2 minutes to install and the first time I started it, it ran as strong as ever.

Hope this saves some of you some time, money and headache!

This makes sense, I will pull out tube, blow air through tube.

Apr 29, 2020#55

cpurvis

Here's the thread: https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/thre...ms-sputtering-stalling-etc.47223/#post-359422

Look at the debris in that tube. Yours may have a similar fuel pickup.

I won't be around until late afternoon if you have questions but there are plenty of other people a lot smarter than me on here.

Apr 29, 2020#56

C

cambre

cpurvis said:
Here's the thread: https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/thre...ms-sputtering-stalling-etc.47223/#post-359422

Look at the debris in that tube. Yours may have a similar fuel pickup.

I won't be around until late afternoon if you have questions but there are plenty of other people a lot smarter than me on here.

cpurvis said:
cambre, read this. This is from another post that has a 'similar' problem. It's a Kubota gas mower, but the problem is similar to yours:

Sharing this public service announcement for what it's worth as my local dealer says they've seen it on a number of the Kommander ZT's.

I have a 2013 ZG124E with a 48" deck. Last fall for no apparent reason I could think of, it started stalling & running rough. Like it couldn't get enough fuel. It would run okay for 5-10 under PTO load after I started and would stall. After that, I couldn't keep it going for more than several seconds. When I came back to it the next weekend, same thing.

I tried:

Cleaning the carb

Adding Dry Gas

Replacing the fuel filter

Replacing the air filter

Checking the plugs

All with no luck. After a conversation with the service guy at my Kubota dealer, he said it was likely tube mechanism going into the gas tank. There is a 90 degree bend which apparently allows debris (grass) to get stuck, limiting fuel flow. After it sits for 10 minutes or an hour or a day, gravity pulls the debris back into the tank where the cycle can start all over. How debris is getting in there is a mystery.

The fix is a new tube to insert into the gas tank which has a mesh screen on it. Cost me $18.

Took literally 2 minutes to install and the first time I started it, it ran as strong as ever.

Hope this saves some of you some time, money and headache!
[/QUOTE

cpurvis said:

Here's the thread: https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/thre...ms-sputtering-stalling-etc.47223/#post-359422

Look at the debris in that tube. Yours may have a similar fuel pickup.

I won't be around until late afternoon if you have questions but there are plenty of other people a lot smarter than me on here.

Click to expand...

I pulled tube from the tank, blew it out with compressed air, nothing came out. I blew out the hose going to first filter, all clear. That was good post you sent. Thanks very much.

Apr 29, 2020#57

cpurvis

Did that tube have any kind of a screen on it?

Apr 30, 2020#58

C

cambre

cpurvis said:
Did that tube have any kind of a screen on it?

No it did not and there was not a bit of anything in it. I blew it out with compressed air. Thanks for answer.

Apr 30, 2020#59

cpurvis

Can you see in the tank to tell if there is any contamination in there?

After reading about the problems that person had with the gas powered Kubota Zero Turn, I would make sure the tank doesn't have any debris in it. All the symptoms point to fuel starvation. I don't know how much trouble it would be to remove the tank and give it a good cleaning but I think that's where I'd look now and also to replacing that fuel pickup tube with the Kubota replacement tube that has the screen over the end.

If I think of anything else, I'll post it but right now I'm out of ideas other than cleaning every component in the fuel supply system and making sure they have adequate flow through them.

Apr 30, 2020#60

C

cambre

cpurvis said:
Can you see in the tank to tell if there is any contamination in there?

After reading about the problems that person had with the gas powered Kubota Zero Turn, I would make sure the tank doesn't have any debris in it. All the symptoms point to fuel starvation. I don't know how much trouble it would be to remove the tank and give it a good cleaning but I think that's where I'd look now and also to replacing that fuel pickup tube with the Kubota replacement tube that has the screen over the end.

If I think of anything else, I'll post it but right now I'm out of ideas other than cleaning every component in the fuel supply system and making sure they have adequate flow through them.

I will look inside the tank with a brighter flash lite. That was good reading about Kubota Zero Turn. Enough grass stuck in the tube to feed a cow. Don't know how that could have gotten in the tank. I haven't put the electric fuel pump on yet, my T fittings finally came in yesterday. Do you think it may help? I am going to make a video of it starting and when it dies. I don't know how to do this but I have a good friend who does, then I will post it. Thanks again for all your help.

Apr 30, 2020#61

Hammermechanicman

If you use a fuel can with new fuel line and a filter and the electric pump with a T fitting after the pump and the fuel pressure guage at the T. Turn on the electric pump, bleed the injector pump and the injectors. See what the fuel pressure is. Start the engine and run it till it dies and keep track of the fuel pressure. If it never dies and runs fine. Probably clogged fuel pickup or lines. If it dies with good pressure on the guage issue with injector pump. Probably with the fuel solenoid. If fuel pressure drops off and it dies you need a priest for an exorcism.

Apr 30, 2020#62

B

bertsmobile1

FWIW
Any grass clippings that fall into the tank will not rot and remain them for ever till you remove them.
The fuel washes out the colour so they become translucient and thus very hard to see but have the same effect as tiny strips of plastic.
Even worse the grass clippings are the same density as the fuel so they float at all different levels then as the fuel is drawn out get sucked into the outlet by the flow of the fuel.
As soon as you stop the mower, they float away.
When I started out I spent hundreds of hours running down mystery "electrical" problems that were all fuel blockages in the tank outlet.

Apr 30, 2020#63

C

cambre

Hammermechanicman said:
If you use a fuel can with new fuel line and a filter and the electric pump with a T fitting after the pump and the fuel pressure guage at the T. Turn on the electric pump, bleed the injector pump and the injectors. See what the fuel pressure is. Start the engine and run it till it dies and keep track of the fuel pressure. If it never dies and runs fine. Probably clogged fuel pickup or lines. If it dies with good pressure on the guage issue with injector pump. Probably with the fuel solenoid. If fuel pressure drops off and it dies you need a priest for an exorcism.

I will have to get a fuel pressure gauge. You told me about gauge, I forgot to get one, but I will. I can unhook fuel solenoid. I sure hope its not the ejector pump.

Apr 30, 2020#64

C

cambre

bertsmobile1 said:
FWIW
Any grass clippings that fall into the tank will not rot and remain them for ever till you remove them.
The fuel washes out the colour so they become translucient and thus very hard to see but have the same effect as tiny strips of plastic.
Even worse the grass clippings are the same density as the fuel so they float at all different levels then as the fuel is drawn out get sucked into the outlet by the flow of the fuel.
As soon as you stop the mower, they float away.
When I started out I spent hundreds of hours running down mystery "electrical" problems that were all fuel blockages in the tank outlet.

Now that was an interesting post. I still don't understand how grass would get into my fuel tank. Thanks

Apr 30, 2020#65

Hammermechanicman

Not sure if you have top draw or bottom draw tank but if you can easily pull the fuel pickup when the engine dies you can check for someting like this.

Apr 30, 2020#66

C

cambre

cambre said:
Now that was an interesting post. I still don't understand how grass would get into my fuel tank. Thanks

I think I will pull the suction tube from the fuel tank and place it in a jug of clean fresh diesel. I will blow out the tube to make sure its clear. Does this sound like a good idea? Thanks for any response.

Apr 30, 2020#67

B

bertsmobile1

Unless you thoroughly clean the tank and everything around it before you open the cap. clippings fall in off you , off the top of the fuel can off the back of the seat etc.
The thing is they stay in there and build up over time.
Then there is silly stuff like hairs off the back of your hands, dead skin dandruf, head hair , dirt from your gloves etc etc etc.

May 1, 2020#68

C

cambre

bertsmobile1 said:
Unless you thoroughly clean the tank and everything around it before you open the cap. clippings fall in off you , off the top of the fuel can off the back of the seat etc.
The thing is they stay in there and build up over time.
Then there is silly stuff like hairs off the back of your hands, dead skin dandruf, head hair , dirt from your gloves etc etc etc.

Thanks for info bertsmobile1, In 9 years a lot of things could fall in fuel tank. You opened my eyes about what can happen inside a fuel tank. Thanks

May 1, 2020#69

C

cambre

My grasshopper is running like new. I cut grass for 4 hrs after I drained the tank and blew it dry I could see some grit in the bottom of the tank. You guys kept telling me to clean the tank. I was looking for particles I could see. bertsmobile1 posted about how grass and other things that fall into the tank gets translucent and they are very hard to see. So I siphoned the fuel out of the tank, dried the tank with compressed air. After the tank was dried I got my shop vac. I figured the vac would suck particles out I couldn't see while blowing air into tank to keep the particles flying around. Then I got a tube about the size of my finger and put it inside the shop vac hose and sealed it off. I taped the tube to a wooden dow and with a small flash lite I could suck out the bottom of the tank. I put fresh fuel in the tank and it was really easy to bleed the air out of the lines, I only bled the injector pump. Started right up and started cutting grass. I want to thank cpurvis, Hammermechanicman, bertsmobile1, and everyone who helped on this. Thanks to all.

May 2, 2020#70

B

bertsmobile1

Thanks for the follow up .
Funny how things go in clusters .
You would be the 10th or so person this month with a cloged up fuel tank.
Lets hope the celebrations were not too early.

May 2, 2020#71

C

cambre

bertsmobile1 said:
Thanks for the follow up .
Funny how things go in clusters .
You would be the 10th or so person this month with a cloged up fuel tank.
Lets hope the celebrations were not too early.

Thanks for your help. Two others on the forum kept telling me to clean the tank but I could not see anything in the tank. The picture I saw of the tank tube with grass clippings pluging it up and sticking out of it was something I could see and what I was looking for. The way you explained what falls into a fuel tank and what happens to it after it is in the tank convinced me to drain the tank and clean it out. This fixed the problem. Thank you very very much.

May 15, 2020#72

G

gsim

Have you tried running it briefly without air filter in place? Part of fuel is air, after all. I've seen this exact thing once before. But it was accompanied by a sooty looking exhaust the time I saw it. Had smilar issue with a small gasoline powered edger, and was dirty air filter. No sooty discharge that time, but air filter was culprit anyway.

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