proper oil type & amount for 721D?

[Jinzo Ningen]

Last thing on my "to-do" list for this mower is to change the engine oil & filter. The PO is still digging for the GH manuals (buried in a storage unit), so I need the proper amount & type/wt. for the Kubota diesel engine. I plan to put some Seafoam in the crankcase, do 1 mowing, then change the oil & filter. Thanks!

 

[KennyV]

Rotella T6 is perfect for that engine...
I would NOT add anything to your engine oil,
If you 'feel' you must add something... add something that increases the ZDDP, like GM Break In Oil, GM EOS, GM part #12345501 or something like Rislone Engine Oil Supplement...
But don't add anything that will dilute the extreme pressure additives in your diesel oil...

That Kubota should be 6 Quarts... :smile:KennyV

 

[KennyV]

I plan to put some Seafoam in the crankcase, do 1 mowing, then change the oil & filter. Thanks!

Kubota builds an incredible engine... it has a large capacity crankcase for extra oil...
I get the idea that you think you are needing to 'clean' the crankcase??

Don't use cleaners in diesel engines... Use a good quality DIESEL rated oil... it will have all the cleaning additives plus the Extreme Pressure additives your engine crankcase will ever need. Change the oil & filter every 100 hours...

if there is some reason you think you need to do a short cycle oil & filter change, go 50 hours on the first... If you know there is some chemical or mechanical contaminate present, you may be better off opening the engine up, especially the fuel injector pump and rack... but don't run the engine with 'cleaners' in the engine oil...
Rotella T6 is a great 5W-40 perfect for any 4 cycle engine, but especially for a Diesel engine... :smile:KennyV

 

[Black Bart]

Kubota builds an incredible engine... it has a large capacity crankcase for extra oil...
I get the idea that you think you are needing to 'clean' the crankcase??

Don't use cleaners in diesel engines... Use a good quality DIESEL rated oil... it will have all the cleaning additives plus the Extreme Pressure additives your engine crankcase will ever need. Change the oil & filter every 100 hours...

if there is some reason you think you need to do a short cycle oil & filter change, go 50 hours on the first... If you know there is some chemical or mechanical contaminate present, you may be better off opening the engine up, especially the fuel injector pump and rack... but don't run the engine with 'cleaners' in the engine oil...
Rotella T6 is a great 5W-40 perfect for any 4 cycle engine, but especially for a Diesel engine... :smile:KennyV

BRAVO This is some of the best advice I have ever seen on this Forum.

Kudo's to Kenny :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Jinzo Ningen]

I've used Seafoam for years and never had any problems - only excellent results. This includes using it to regularly treat both the fuel & oil of my 1984 F-250HD 6.9diesel 4wd truck for the entire 14 years that I owned it without issue. My father before me used it for many, many years in just about everything, including the crankcase of his race car ('65 Dodge Coronet w/426 Hemi). For those worried about its use in diesel engines and/or fuel, here's the straight poop from a tech rep at Seafoam's website:

Sea Foam is an OIL PRODUCT, not a chemical, so do not worry about any secondary affects.

Have you used Sea Foam in your fuel? Read the attachments for more information.

If your engine began to create enough residue to "STICK" part of your valve train, IT IS TIME TO GET THAT OLD OIL OUT OF THERE!

Yes, the Sea Foam cleans the old deteriorated oil and turns it back into a flushable liquid form, but your crankcase oil will quickly make more residue; your oil has reached the end of its SERVICEABLE LIFE!

Change your oil, read the attachment I have given on CRANKCASE OIL, treat the NEW oil with Sea Foam at 1.5 ounces per quart of oil capacity, then MONITOR YOUR OIL and change it when it gets dirty.

Oil is still cheaper than an engine!

Thanks for using Sea Foam!

Attachments with the reply:

Attachment 1:

Sea Foam Motor Treatment used in Crankcase Oil
All Gasoline and Diesel, Rotary style engines

Sea Foam Motor Treatment is a Blended Petroleum Product, NOT A CHEMICAL and is widely used as an old oil residue cleaner and moisture drier in any oil crankcase.

Sea Foam Motor Treatment is most commonly used as a pre service, old oil residue re-liquefier / cleaner and moisture drier, and is also used as an after service additive. Sea Foam Motor Treatment does NOT add significantly to oil volume, so removing oil is NOT required for use, when used according to printed directions on the product container.

1. As a PRE SERVICE CLEANER for old oil residue, (sticky rings or valve train noise), pour 1 ｽ ounces of Sea Foam Motor Treatment into the engine oil crankcase for EACH quart of crankcase oil capacity including filter. (Diesels use 1 pint Sea Foam to 4 gallons of oil, please.) Drive a MINIMUM of 30 minutes/miles, MAXIMUM 100 miles, and then do your oil change service (LOF). This is the process of safely/slowly re liquefying the old oil residue so contaminants may flow and be filtered. This also makes your old oil dirtier, quickly, so a LOF service is necessary when the oil gets dirty. Great for Turbocharged & Supercharged applications where hot oils deteriorate so quickly due to heat, and leaves those residues that NEED CLEANING. (LOF = Lube oil & Filter service = OIL CHANGE).

2. As an AFTER SERVICE ADDITIVE into fresh oil, nearly fresh oil, or oil (used condition) that is NOT ready to be changed (by mileage), put 1 ｽ ounces Sea Foam Motor Treatment into the crankcase per quart of capacity as described above, then SELF SET a program to MONITOR your oil for level, color and clarity on a mileage, timed, or event basis (like every time you add fuel, etc.) to determine when an oil service is necessary. (LOF) When the oil gets dirty, CHANGE IT!

Sea Foam Motor Treatment will safely and slowly re liquefy old oil residue, This will make your oil need changing BEFORE your normal scheduled LOF service. Only your monitoring of the oil for color and clarity can tell when it is time to do LOF - oil change service, or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Synthetic oils, both blends and 100%, were engineered and are manufactured to be 100% compatible with petroleum based oils, all brands, and vice/versa. Without compatibility, oil manufacturers and engineers would be liable for the results of mixing non-compatible lubricants.

Check your oil; monitor its level, color & clarity to determine need for LOF service!
Change your oil when it gets dirty!

Technical Services Department May 2008 DD
Sea Foam Sales Company

Attachment 2:

Sea Foam Uses in Fuels

Sea Foam Motor Treatment #痴 SF-16 (16 ounce), SF-128 (gallon container) and
SF-55 (a 55 gallon drum) is used as a fuel additive in Gasoline, Ethanol Blends, Gas/oil mixes & ALL Diesel fuels. This includes all brands and qualities of available fuels.

When added to these fuels, Sea Foam Motor Treatment was specifically designed to Safely do five (5) simple tasks for you. They are:

1. Sea Foam Motor Treatment is a 100% blended petroleum product. That means Sea Foam is OIL, so adding Sea Foam to ANY fuel, adds lubricity to Fuel systems, Induction systems (Including Drawn through Supercharged applications), upper cylinders, fuel pumps, and related fuel system & Exhaust (Turbocharged) components.
All fuels lack 撤rotecting lubrication, Advantage: 鉄ea Foam?

2. Sea Foam Motor Treatment contains an oil component that dries fuel system moisture. Moisture breaks down into its basic components of hydrogen and oxygen when Sea Foam Motor Treatment is added to any of the above listed fuels, allowing Sea Foam Motor Treatment to help eliminate problems caused by moisture, like diesel fuel gelling and poor run .Advantage: 鉄ea Foam?

3. Sea Foam Motor Treatment contains an oil based high detergent fuel residue cleaner. Using Sea Foam Motor Treatment in your fuel system makes that old fuel residue safely back into liquid. Moisture becomes a 渡on issue and allows contaminants to be filtered, as engineered by the manufacturer.
Advantage: 鉄ea Foam?

4. Sea Foam Motor Treatments exclusive formula is blended specifically to clean carbon out of the engine as the engine is run. This is accomplished by our cleaning oil formula eliminating old sticky oil residue that holds carbon and allowing that carbon to flow out of the engine dust particle by dust particle. Advantage: 鉄ea Foam?

5. Sea Foam Motor Treatment adds volatility to fuel and slows down the rate at which that fuel looses its ability to properly burn. When added to fuel and the fuel is in properly sealed containers or fuel systems, per printed container instructions, Sea Foam Motor Treatment is a fuel stabilizer for up to 2 years. Always run the engine for a long enough period of time to assure the entire system is protected.
Advantage: 鉄ea Foam?

Technical Services Department
Sea Foam Sales Company

Updated May, 2008 DD

Last Attachment:

Sea Foam Amounts in Fuel

4 Cycle Type Engines
Diesel
Rotary (Wankel)
2 Cycle type Engines


Sea Foam Products recommends an average of 1 ounce Sea Foam Motor Treatment to each gallon of Gasoline (including 10% & 15% ethanol) and Diesel fuel (including low sulfur & Ultra Low Sulfur blends). With any vehicle or system FACTORY DESIGNED for E-85 fuel, use 2 ounces Sea foam per gallon of the fuel.

Parameters are: 1 16 ounce can of Sea Foam Motor Treatment to a MINIMUM of 8 gallons of fuel, Maximum 25 gallons fuel to a 16 ounce can for maintenance. Follow the instructions above for OIL INJECTED engines also. (NO Sea Foam Motor Treatment ever goes into the oil reserve tank for oil injection).

***For all gas/oil mixed fuels (2 cycle) and E-85 Ethanol to be used in systems NOT specifically factory designed for E-85 fuels, DOUBLE the amount of Sea Foam Motor Treatment used per gallon.

Sea Foam Motor Treatment is blended OIL, and will not run a gasoline, Gas/oil mix or Ethanol engine without introducing HYDROCARBONS (gasoline / ethanol) to the mixture at a minimum 50%.

Fuel injector cleaning machines in a controlled environment use Sea Foam Motor Treatment as their safe Cleaning agent mixed with gasoline or ethanol blend at a ratio of 50% Gasoline/Ethanol blend & 50% Sea Foam Motor Treatment.


Technical Services Department
Sea Foam Sales Company
Minneapolis, Minnesota

 

[Black Bart]

This comes down to who you choose to believe the oil manufacture or a company making additives

The fact that you used a aftermarket additive and had no problem proves very little because I have 2 vehicles that are 25 years old that have never had anything but oil in them and I had NO problems.

The oil companies hire Tribologist and engineers to make the best oil possible and they say do not add anything to their oil.
Why because it requires the correct balance of additives and the right combination of them.
Adding to the add-pack can keep what is already in the oil from working making things worse
NOT BETTER.

Since different Brands of oil use different additives how can One additive like Seafoam be right for all oils like the additive companies tell you.

If you believe that a small company can make something that improves ALL OILS on the market then so be it but if you spend a little time reading about oil you just may change your mind.

Will Sea foam damage your engine Probably not but does it help or is it necessary NO it is not.

One thing it will do is make a profit for the additive company and that my friend is why they will tell you how great their product is it is all about $$$$$$$.

What did you really expect the rep from sea foam to tell you????????
Did you think he would tell you it was not necessary:confused2:

Last week you ask about fuel additives I think from reading your post you have your mind made up that additives for fuel and oil are necessary and nothing that I say will change that so add the sea foam and you will feel better about it .

Bottom line is just what Kenny told you put in T-6 and save your money and skip the foam

 

[Jinzo Ningen]

Perhaps we're misunderstanding each other. My question regarding additives in fuel was do to the fact that I've never had a small diesel and so was unsure if those who run the hell out of these machines as fleet vehicles found than any brand or type of fuel additive helped the engines run better (performance/fuel economy) and/or last longer over time, as well as requiring less maintenence, especially in cold weather, since I hope to put the 'Hopper to use either throwing or pushing snow.

As far as putting SF in the crankcase, that's purely a measure to clean out the old, sludgy oil deposits that have potentially been building up inside the motor for the last 14 years. Not as a "put it in everyday" miracle cure-all. Same principal behind stuff like Gunk or Lucas oil deposit removers. I've used Gunk in old engines and seen crap come out that looked like a combo of burned coffee & old, moldy chocolate syrup. And all this out of engines that in prior oil changes without additive/cleaner what came out looked just like "normal" dirty oil. So something is coming out when these cleaners are used. Maybe not all add-in chemicals are the same, and doubtless there are scam brands, but know for a fact that SeaFoam does work as claimed.

Point-in-fact: I had a lot of problems at one point in the life of my old F-250 with hard starting, rough idle & low-speed running and overall loss in mileage. I was almost to the point of taking it the local diesel mechanic for a look-through when I decided to try adding SeaFoam into the tank. Within a couple of days the starting problem was gone idel smoothed out and the mileage improved noticably. Coincidence? No. It does work. It can't fix everything, but it most certainly is not snake oil. And no, I don't work for SeaFoam or any of it's affiliates. Just a satisfied customer for over 30 years. Perhaps this is just an area where we can agree to disagree.

 

[Black Bart]

Perhaps we're misunderstanding each other. My question regarding additives in fuel was do to the fact that I've never had a small diesel and so was unsure if those who run the hell out of these machines as fleet vehicles found than any brand or type of fuel additive helped the engines run better (performance/fuel economy) and/or last longer over time, as well as requiring less maintenence, especially in cold weather, since I hope to put the 'Hopper to use either throwing or pushing snow.

As far as putting SF in the crankcase, that's purely a measure to clean out the old, sludgy oil deposits that have potentially been building up inside the motor for the last 14 years. Not as a "put it in everyday" miracle cure-all. Same principal behind stuff like Gunk or Lucas oil deposit removers. I've used Gunk in old engines and seen crap come out that looked like a combo of burned coffee & old, moldy chocolate syrup. And all this out of engines that in prior oil changes without additive/cleaner what came out looked just like "normal" dirty oil. So something is coming out when these cleaners are used. Maybe not all add-in chemicals are the same, and doubtless there are scam brands, but know for a fact that SeaFoam does work as claimed.

Point-in-fact: I had a lot of problems at one point in the life of my old F-250 with hard starting, rough idle & low-speed running and overall loss in mileage. I was almost to the point of taking it the local diesel mechanic for a look-through when I decided to try adding SeaFoam into the tank. Within a couple of days the starting problem was gone idel smoothed out and the mileage improved noticably. Coincidence? No. It does work. It can't fix everything, but it most certainly is not snake oil. And no, I don't work for SeaFoam or any of it's affiliates. Just a satisfied customer for over 30 years. Perhaps this is just an area where we can agree to disagree.

It is your engine and your money do with it what you want, But you did ask for other peoples opinion and when Kenny and I did not tell you to use the SF it was not what you wanted to hear.
Yes you are right we do disagree about it but you may spend some time on Bob is the oil guy forum and do some reading on the white papers on oil and you will change your point of view about using additives in your oil. :thumbsup:

 

[KennyV]

One small, or perhaps not so small difference in what you are purposing to do ... The things that you experienced with your ford could well have been injector fouling... putting a cleaner in the fuel 'may' have helped that... putting a cleaner in the crankcase oil only diluted the additive pack in the diesel rated oil, if you were in fact using a diesel rated oil...
If there is sludge in your GH Kubota engine a good diesel rated engine oil will clean it.
It is a WELL built small engine, subjecting it to a cleaner may not destroy it but my point is ... it is not going to do the 'good' that you think it will, it is not going to do anything 'helpful' for that engine.

The notion that cleaners placed in crankcases is not completely unfounded nor a new idea... Long ago Caterpillar construction and mining equipment all recommended filling and running the engines with kerosene or diesel fuel every 4th oil change... never under a load and only for a few minutes... That was during the time that oils did NOT have detergents or anything remotely comparable to modern diesel additives...
Cat engines had Huge bearings made with much different alloys then, no one would ever dream of doing that in a modern engine...
I realize that there is almost a religious cult following for most advertised products, but there are a few of the claims & testimonials that could stand a closer evaluation ....

For your winter time use... With working glow plugs & a good synthetic diesel rated engine oil, you will have no problem down to zero degrees f... a little longer glow plug cycle will get you going below zero....
Don't run 'summer' blend diesel in the winter, and don't use more than 2 percent bio-diesel below freezing... :smile:KennyV

 

[Jinzo Ningen]

For your winter time use... With working glow plugs & a good synthetic diesel rated engine oil, you will have no problem down to zero degrees f... a little longer glow plug cycle will get you going below zero....
Don't run 'summer' blend diesel in the winter, and don't use more than 2 percent bio-diesel below freezing... :smile:KennyV

I haven't bought diesel fuel in quite a few years, Kenny. There used to be a bio-diesel production facitility right next door to where I work, but within 6 months of start up they closed their doors. Not sure what the story was on that. So is bio-diesel a normal part of pump diesel or is it something one must seek out? I have a local farm bureau site that has a tiny service pumping station. I will have to check and see what types of fuel they sell. Never bought from them before. i usually by all my fuel at the close-by BP gas station.