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Problem growing grass around water oaks.
#1
M
Mr. Shamrock
M
Mr. Shamrock
Like the title states I cannot get the grass to grow around my 2 huge water oaks in the front yard. I have tried everything I know of. I got it looking decent last spring and then as soon as summer hit BAM back to bear dirt. I even spent $3000 installing an irrigation system on the entire property - all I got was a huge water bill. I have brought in soil and layed seed down and the closest I got to wooping it was last spring, but like I said it was very short lived. I had the same issue in the back and removed all 5 water oaks and the grass has grown in, but my wife refuses to let me have the front ones removed. They are beautiful tree's, but I am afraid that with them I will never have grass there and will be haunted with the chore of acorn removal for the rest of my life!!! Help!!!
#4
J
jenkinsph
J
jenkinsph
Couple of things to do would be to get a soil analysis and add any necessary amendments preferably with the time needed for these to react. When planting fescue seed I cover the seed with about a 1/4" of dirt and roll it in. Then water it about four times a day for about 10 to 15 minutes or just enough to keep the ground damp. After about 15 days of this and for the next 30 days I gradually reduce the frequency of the watering and increase the amount for each watering period to once a day. After I have mowed the lawn the first time I add a small amount of fertilizer and water it in.
I don't get much rain for most of the year so you may be able to water less frequently than I do but most seeds need damp soil to grow well in the beginning stages. After the roots are better established you can get by with watering once a week or just when needed between long periods of no rain.
I find I get the best results with tall fescue in my locale but your area may be different. I also find that rototilling about four to six inches deep really helps and also allows me to do a better job of smoothing the initial seedbed. Around the base of trees I have resorted to using a four prong cultivator hoe to looses the soil up prior to seeding. Fescue will grow well with time all around the base of trees and fill in.
For most of the year I allow it to grow to a height of six inches and then mow it down to four inches. This has made a big difference in the grass especially in the summer time as over cutting hampers root growth and doesn't allow enough leaf for the plant. In the hottest summer months I have found that the shady areas under trees is where the grass looks the best, so I think you must have other issues that need to be resolved. You should be able to grow a nice patch of grass under your trees.
I don't get much rain for most of the year so you may be able to water less frequently than I do but most seeds need damp soil to grow well in the beginning stages. After the roots are better established you can get by with watering once a week or just when needed between long periods of no rain.
I find I get the best results with tall fescue in my locale but your area may be different. I also find that rototilling about four to six inches deep really helps and also allows me to do a better job of smoothing the initial seedbed. Around the base of trees I have resorted to using a four prong cultivator hoe to looses the soil up prior to seeding. Fescue will grow well with time all around the base of trees and fill in.
For most of the year I allow it to grow to a height of six inches and then mow it down to four inches. This has made a big difference in the grass especially in the summer time as over cutting hampers root growth and doesn't allow enough leaf for the plant. In the hottest summer months I have found that the shady areas under trees is where the grass looks the best, so I think you must have other issues that need to be resolved. You should be able to grow a nice patch of grass under your trees.
#5
M
Mr. Shamrock
M
Mr. Shamrock
Thanks for all the information. I had the fescue growing in nicely before the summer hit and then it slowly disappeared. I now have huge patches of bare soil. I pretty much did what you said with the exception of the soil sample. I tilled up the entire area, brought in a few loads of soil, seeded, used a big rake flipped upside down and drug the entire area (this seemed to embed the seed in the new soil), and then watered it a couple times a day until it grew in. It came in nicely and like I said as soon as the temps increased with summer I lost it all. You can just about see in the morning when the sun is on that side of the house the shade outline of the tree's canopy and the grass is gone along that entire outline and up to the tree. These tree's are HUGE so that makes for a very large, ugly, bare spot right in the front yard. I know the previous owner had an issue to - this is an old neighborhood and many of the people here have been here since the 70's. I just bought the house in 2006 and immediately started tackling the bare grass issue. I had many of the neighbors tell me how the previous owner tried and tried to get grass growing and never could. According to them- I had it looking the best it ever had, but then it died. I hate losing this battle, but my wallet and patience are worn thin!!!!
#6
J
jenkinsph
J
jenkinsph
What kind of temperatures did you have when the grass was dying off? How old was the grass at this point? When did the grass germinate to start with?
You might be better served to plant in the late summer months, atleast that has worked the best for me. In the mountains here we can get cold at night and sometime in December mine will brown out and stay that way till Febuary. In your area assuming the temperature swings are more moderate you should be able to get a better sraret with the roots over the winter so that the grass can survive the next summer. I do use winterizer fertilizer and Ironite with good results, the roots will still grow during the winter even if the grass appears dormant.
Not sure about the rake you are using but if you had a good stand of grass to start with the more likely issue is the roots weren't developed enough. I should also add that those tree can soak up alot of the water too, so you may need to water frequently untill you have good grass roots.
If you can provide more details I will try to help you with it.
You might be better served to plant in the late summer months, atleast that has worked the best for me. In the mountains here we can get cold at night and sometime in December mine will brown out and stay that way till Febuary. In your area assuming the temperature swings are more moderate you should be able to get a better sraret with the roots over the winter so that the grass can survive the next summer. I do use winterizer fertilizer and Ironite with good results, the roots will still grow during the winter even if the grass appears dormant.
Not sure about the rake you are using but if you had a good stand of grass to start with the more likely issue is the roots weren't developed enough. I should also add that those tree can soak up alot of the water too, so you may need to water frequently untill you have good grass roots.
If you can provide more details I will try to help you with it.
#7
M
Mr. Shamrock
M
Mr. Shamrock
We have some pretty drastic temp changes here. Summers are upper 90's, but it can be 60 at night. Winters get down in the twenties sometimes and we usually get at least one good snow each year although this past winter we got a few and one that lasted a few days. When the grass started dying off it was in the upper 90's and we were in a drought condition, but I was running the irrigation system twice a day. I did this until the grass was nice and thick and then I cut back to once a day and then 3 times a week and then twice a week (which is where I have run it since). That is what gets me - the grass grew in nice and thick and I was so happy. I actually had neighbors that I never met before stop in front of the house asking me for my secret...and then it died! One of the kicker's was I don't have a well so my irrigation system runs off my meter and my water bill was freaking astronomical. ALL FOR NOTHING!
A little more information - My oaks have quite a few roots that run at the surface, the turf under the soil I brought in is a hard packed clay - which somehow since the grass died the good soil has washed away and now my top layer is clay again. I am not sure where it has gone since my lawn is fairly flat with just a slight slope to one side - very slight slope. I also notice under one of the oaks there is a lot of moss (or what I believe to be moss) since the grass has died. I called in a Turf Management Company and they even couldn't guarantee grass to grow unless I sodded the entire yard for thousands of dollars and signed up for their monthly service plan = more $$$. I declined that plan. I am tempted to let mother nature do her thing and just put a huge island of landscaping in the front yard and forget the whole grass thing.
A little more information - My oaks have quite a few roots that run at the surface, the turf under the soil I brought in is a hard packed clay - which somehow since the grass died the good soil has washed away and now my top layer is clay again. I am not sure where it has gone since my lawn is fairly flat with just a slight slope to one side - very slight slope. I also notice under one of the oaks there is a lot of moss (or what I believe to be moss) since the grass has died. I called in a Turf Management Company and they even couldn't guarantee grass to grow unless I sodded the entire yard for thousands of dollars and signed up for their monthly service plan = more $$$. I declined that plan. I am tempted to let mother nature do her thing and just put a huge island of landscaping in the front yard and forget the whole grass thing.
#8
M
Mower manic
M
Mower manic
Do you have a camera?
Post some pics of the tree and the soil and the weeds the your having problems with.
would you mind telling me what county you live in?
Post some pics of the tree and the soil and the weeds the your having problems with.
would you mind telling me what county you live in?
#9
J
jenkinsph
It would really help if you could furnish the timeline for this scenario. I would again recommend a soil analysis at your local county agents office. Pictures I agree would also help.
J
jenkinsph
We have some pretty drastic temp changes here. Summers are upper 90's, but it can be 60 at night. Winters get down in the twenties sometimes and we usually get at least one good snow each year although this past winter we got a few and one that lasted a few days. When the grass started dying off it was in the upper 90's and we were in a drought condition, but I was running the irrigation system twice a day. I did this until the grass was nice and thick and then I cut back to once a day and then 3 times a week and then twice a week (which is where I have run it since). That is what gets me - the grass grew in nice and thick and I was so happy. I actually had neighbors that I never met before stop in front of the house asking me for my secret...and then it died! One of the kicker's was I don't have a well so my irrigation system runs off my meter and my water bill was freaking astronomical. ALL FOR NOTHING!
A little more information - My oaks have quite a few roots that run at the surface, the turf under the soil I brought in is a hard packed clay - which somehow since the grass died the good soil has washed away and now my top layer is clay again. I am not sure where it has gone since my lawn is fairly flat with just a slight slope to one side - very slight slope. I also notice under one of the oaks there is a lot of moss (or what I believe to be moss) since the grass has died. I called in a Turf Management Company and they even couldn't guarantee grass to grow unless I sodded the entire yard for thousands of dollars and signed up for their monthly service plan = more $$$. I declined that plan. I am tempted to let mother nature do her thing and just put a huge island of landscaping in the front yard and forget the whole grass thing.
It would really help if you could furnish the timeline for this scenario. I would again recommend a soil analysis at your local county agents office. Pictures I agree would also help.
#10
M
Mr. Shamrock
Yeah I have a camera and I will get some pictures posted. I live in Greenville county on the north end about 20 minutes from the NC border.
M
Mr. Shamrock
Do you have a camera?
Post some pics of the tree and the soil and the weeds the your having problems with.
would you mind telling me what county you live in?
Yeah I have a camera and I will get some pictures posted. I live in Greenville county on the north end about 20 minutes from the NC border.
#11
M
Mr. Shamrock
I was just looking through some pictures that had dates on them and in April is when it looked about it's best. I seeded in February and by April it was looking good. By June it was starting to get bare and by August it was almost as bad as before I started. I gave up on it at that point and have just let it do what it wants. Needless to say it looks like crap right now. For the record this wasn't this past year this was a few years ago and I just lost my interest when all my efforts went down the drain. So I will be starting back from scratch or like I said above just bringing in a bunch of mulch and flowering plants and make a bike landscape island out of the entire area.
M
Mr. Shamrock
It would really help if you could furnish the timeline for this scenario. I would again recommend a soil analysis at your local county agents office. Pictures I agree would also help.
I was just looking through some pictures that had dates on them and in April is when it looked about it's best. I seeded in February and by April it was looking good. By June it was starting to get bare and by August it was almost as bad as before I started. I gave up on it at that point and have just let it do what it wants. Needless to say it looks like crap right now. For the record this wasn't this past year this was a few years ago and I just lost my interest when all my efforts went down the drain. So I will be starting back from scratch or like I said above just bringing in a bunch of mulch and flowering plants and make a bike landscape island out of the entire area.
#12
M
Mower manic
Understand that problems like this are area specific. There are dozens of cultivars of fescue and an infinite amount of soil combinations, particularly when you have stratification like you are describing. Here is a link to someone who will help you on your way to pinpointing the problem and resolving same.
About Cory Tanner : Extension : Clemson University : South Carolina
You will need to send soil samples for testing and the collection process is important, so since you have a few months to get this under control (winter) you have time to educate yourself. This is really going to come in handy with your future landscaping endeavors so it's time well spent.
The alternative is to throw money at the problem and hope for a positive result.
Please post your pics, but send them to Cory as well. He is most qualified to solve your problem.
M
Mower manic
I was just looking through some pictures that had dates on them and in April is when it looked about it's best. I seeded in February and by April it was looking good. By June it was starting to get bare and by August it was almost as bad as before I started. I gave up on it at that point and have just let it do what it wants. Needless to say it looks like crap right now. For the record this wasn't this past year this was a few years ago and I just lost my interest when all my efforts went down the drain. So I will be starting back from scratch or like I said above just bringing in a bunch of mulch and flowering plants and make a bike landscape island out of the entire area.
Understand that problems like this are area specific. There are dozens of cultivars of fescue and an infinite amount of soil combinations, particularly when you have stratification like you are describing. Here is a link to someone who will help you on your way to pinpointing the problem and resolving same.
About Cory Tanner : Extension : Clemson University : South Carolina
You will need to send soil samples for testing and the collection process is important, so since you have a few months to get this under control (winter) you have time to educate yourself. This is really going to come in handy with your future landscaping endeavors so it's time well spent.
The alternative is to throw money at the problem and hope for a positive result.
Please post your pics, but send them to Cory as well. He is most qualified to solve your problem.
#13
J
jenkinsph
J
jenkinsph
I think I would focus on getting the soil amendments needed now and plan on planting in the fall next year when the day temperatures are closer to 75 degrees. This will allow the grass to grow and strengthen through the winter months (particularly the roots) and have a much better chance the following summer.
#14
Chev
Your main problem is mentioned in this post. If you plan in the spring the root system will not have developed enough by the time the temps go up and the rain quantities go down.
Plant in the fall, if you want results.
Chev
I think I would focus on getting the soil amendments needed now and plan on planting in the fall next year when the day temperatures are closer to 75 degrees. This will allow the grass to grow and strengthen through the winter months (particularly the roots) and have a much better chance the following summer.
Your main problem is mentioned in this post. If you plan in the spring the root system will not have developed enough by the time the temps go up and the rain quantities go down.
Plant in the fall, if you want results.
#15
Carscw
Carscw
Plant your fescue now it likes the cold cover the seed with some straw. When summer comes the roots with be strong enough to handle the heat In the the spring you can cut it low but in summer you want to keep it around 3 inch. Fescue is a shade grass does not like the heat or sun
Sent from my iPhone using LMF
Sent from my iPhone using LMF
#16
J
jenkinsph
Curious about your grass in Georgia, is it still growing enough to cut? While mine is still green it has slowed down in growth.
I would consider planting in the next day or two and take a chance on it since you would be looking at bare dirt for another year.
Looking at the weather charts for your area I think once you get the Fescue established the approximate 1 inch per week seems to be ideal. Looks to be mild weather for the most part.
I would bet the ideal time to plant would be about Oct 1 st imo.
J
jenkinsph
Plant your fescue now it likes the cold cover the seed with some straw. When summer comes the roots with be strong enough to handle the heat In the the spring you can cut it low but in summer you want to keep it around 3 inch. Fescue is a shade grass does not like the heat or sun
Sent from my iPhone using LMF
Curious about your grass in Georgia, is it still growing enough to cut? While mine is still green it has slowed down in growth.
I would consider planting in the next day or two and take a chance on it since you would be looking at bare dirt for another year.
Looking at the weather charts for your area I think once you get the Fescue established the approximate 1 inch per week seems to be ideal. Looks to be mild weather for the most part.
I would bet the ideal time to plant would be about Oct 1 st imo.
#17
Carscw
Carscw
Yes the best time to plant or over seed fescue is late sept early oct
Sent from my iPhone using LMF
Sent from my iPhone using LMF
#18
Chev
Chev
I am sure it varies by region, but this year I had good success planting in early Sept. I did have to water religiously, but the grass had started when the fall rains started.
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
#19
J
jenkinsph
J
jenkinsph
In my locale with the higher elevation (7500 ft) I can plant in mid August after weeds will stop germinating with good results. This give me more time to establish the roots before winter and gives me a good 9 or 10 months before the higher summer temperatures hit.
Planting in the spring means the new grass has to contend with the weeds. Although the grass can eventually choke out the weeds the areas that I have planted in August or early fall are almost weed free.
Planting in the spring means the new grass has to contend with the weeds. Although the grass can eventually choke out the weeds the areas that I have planted in August or early fall are almost weed free.
#21
M
Mr. Shamrock
M
Mr. Shamrock
No I haven't had a chance I have been crazy with work which is a good thing. From talking with a friend October and February are the good planting months. So I guess I will see how it does in Feb.
#22
K
KennyV
WOW, your February's Must be a LOT milder than ours.... :smile:KennyV
K
KennyV
...October and February are the good planting months. So I guess I will see how it does in Feb.
WOW, your February's Must be a LOT milder than ours.... :smile:KennyV
#23
J
jenkinsph
J
jenkinsph
KennyV,
For sure a seaboard state will have less of a temperature swing night and day than you will have in the middle of the continent.
For sure a seaboard state will have less of a temperature swing night and day than you will have in the middle of the continent.