Problem growing grass around water oaks.

[Mr. Shamrock]

Like the title states I cannot get the grass to grow around my 2 huge water oaks in the front yard. I have tried everything I know of. I got it looking decent last spring and then as soon as summer hit BAM back to bear dirt. I even spent $3000 installing an irrigation system on the entire property - all I got was a huge water bill. I have brought in soil and layed seed down and the closest I got to wooping it was last spring, but like I said it was very short lived. I had the same issue in the back and removed all 5 water oaks and the grass has grown in, but my wife refuses to let me have the front ones removed. They are beautiful tree's, but I am afraid that with them I will never have grass there and will be haunted with the chore of acorn removal for the rest of my life!!! Help!!!

 

[jenkinsph]

What types of grass have you tried? A little more information would help.

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

It was fescue, which seems to be the most popular around here for some reason.

 

[jenkinsph]

Couple of things to do would be to get a soil analysis and add any necessary amendments preferably with the time needed for these to react. When planting fescue seed I cover the seed with about a 1/4" of dirt and roll it in. Then water it about four times a day for about 10 to 15 minutes or just enough to keep the ground damp. After about 15 days of this and for the next 30 days I gradually reduce the frequency of the watering and increase the amount for each watering period to once a day. After I have mowed the lawn the first time I add a small amount of fertilizer and water it in.


I don't get much rain for most of the year so you may be able to water less frequently than I do but most seeds need damp soil to grow well in the beginning stages. After the roots are better established you can get by with watering once a week or just when needed between long periods of no rain.

I find I get the best results with tall fescue in my locale but your area may be different. I also find that rototilling about four to six inches deep really helps and also allows me to do a better job of smoothing the initial seedbed. Around the base of trees I have resorted to using a four prong cultivator hoe to looses the soil up prior to seeding. Fescue will grow well with time all around the base of trees and fill in.

For most of the year I allow it to grow to a height of six inches and then mow it down to four inches. This has made a big difference in the grass especially in the summer time as over cutting hampers root growth and doesn't allow enough leaf for the plant. In the hottest summer months I have found that the shady areas under trees is where the grass looks the best, so I think you must have other issues that need to be resolved. You should be able to grow a nice patch of grass under your trees.

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

Thanks for all the information. I had the fescue growing in nicely before the summer hit and then it slowly disappeared. I now have huge patches of bare soil. I pretty much did what you said with the exception of the soil sample. I tilled up the entire area, brought in a few loads of soil, seeded, used a big rake flipped upside down and drug the entire area (this seemed to embed the seed in the new soil), and then watered it a couple times a day until it grew in. It came in nicely and like I said as soon as the temps increased with summer I lost it all. You can just about see in the morning when the sun is on that side of the house the shade outline of the tree's canopy and the grass is gone along that entire outline and up to the tree. These tree's are HUGE so that makes for a very large, ugly, bare spot right in the front yard. I know the previous owner had an issue to - this is an old neighborhood and many of the people here have been here since the 70's. I just bought the house in 2006 and immediately started tackling the bare grass issue. I had many of the neighbors tell me how the previous owner tried and tried to get grass growing and never could. According to them- I had it looking the best it ever had, but then it died. I hate losing this battle, but my wallet and patience are worn thin!!!!

 

[jenkinsph]

What kind of temperatures did you have when the grass was dying off? How old was the grass at this point? When did the grass germinate to start with?

You might be better served to plant in the late summer months, atleast that has worked the best for me. In the mountains here we can get cold at night and sometime in December mine will brown out and stay that way till Febuary. In your area assuming the temperature swings are more moderate you should be able to get a better sraret with the roots over the winter so that the grass can survive the next summer. I do use winterizer fertilizer and Ironite with good results, the roots will still grow during the winter even if the grass appears dormant.

Not sure about the rake you are using but if you had a good stand of grass to start with the more likely issue is the roots weren't developed enough. I should also add that those tree can soak up alot of the water too, so you may need to water frequently untill you have good grass roots.

If you can provide more details I will try to help you with it.

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

We have some pretty drastic temp changes here. Summers are upper 90's, but it can be 60 at night. Winters get down in the twenties sometimes and we usually get at least one good snow each year although this past winter we got a few and one that lasted a few days. When the grass started dying off it was in the upper 90's and we were in a drought condition, but I was running the irrigation system twice a day. I did this until the grass was nice and thick and then I cut back to once a day and then 3 times a week and then twice a week (which is where I have run it since). That is what gets me - the grass grew in nice and thick and I was so happy. I actually had neighbors that I never met before stop in front of the house asking me for my secret...and then it died! One of the kicker's was I don't have a well so my irrigation system runs off my meter and my water bill was freaking astronomical. ALL FOR NOTHING!
A little more information - My oaks have quite a few roots that run at the surface, the turf under the soil I brought in is a hard packed clay - which somehow since the grass died the good soil has washed away and now my top layer is clay again. I am not sure where it has gone since my lawn is fairly flat with just a slight slope to one side - very slight slope. I also notice under one of the oaks there is a lot of moss (or what I believe to be moss) since the grass has died. I called in a Turf Management Company and they even couldn't guarantee grass to grow unless I sodded the entire yard for thousands of dollars and signed up for their monthly service plan = more $$$. I declined that plan. I am tempted to let mother nature do her thing and just put a huge island of landscaping in the front yard and forget the whole grass thing.

 

[Mower manic]

Do you have a camera?
Post some pics of the tree and the soil and the weeds the your having problems with.
would you mind telling me what county you live in?

 

[jenkinsph]

We have some pretty drastic temp changes here. Summers are upper 90's, but it can be 60 at night. Winters get down in the twenties sometimes and we usually get at least one good snow each year although this past winter we got a few and one that lasted a few days. When the grass started dying off it was in the upper 90's and we were in a drought condition, but I was running the irrigation system twice a day. I did this until the grass was nice and thick and then I cut back to once a day and then 3 times a week and then twice a week (which is where I have run it since). That is what gets me - the grass grew in nice and thick and I was so happy. I actually had neighbors that I never met before stop in front of the house asking me for my secret...and then it died! One of the kicker's was I don't have a well so my irrigation system runs off my meter and my water bill was freaking astronomical. ALL FOR NOTHING!
A little more information - My oaks have quite a few roots that run at the surface, the turf under the soil I brought in is a hard packed clay - which somehow since the grass died the good soil has washed away and now my top layer is clay again. I am not sure where it has gone since my lawn is fairly flat with just a slight slope to one side - very slight slope. I also notice under one of the oaks there is a lot of moss (or what I believe to be moss) since the grass has died. I called in a Turf Management Company and they even couldn't guarantee grass to grow unless I sodded the entire yard for thousands of dollars and signed up for their monthly service plan = more $$$. I declined that plan. I am tempted to let mother nature do her thing and just put a huge island of landscaping in the front yard and forget the whole grass thing.

It would really help if you could furnish the timeline for this scenario. I would again recommend a soil analysis at your local county agents office. Pictures I agree would also help.

 

[Mr. Shamrock]

Do you have a camera?
Post some pics of the tree and the soil and the weeds the your having problems with.
would you mind telling me what county you live in?

Yeah I have a camera and I will get some pictures posted. I live in Greenville county on the north end about 20 minutes from the NC border.