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My search for a ZTR has expanded. Also now looking at a Kubota Z726X 60" deck with a Kawi KX 801. Will be testing one with a mulch kit.

Anybody have any firsthand knowledge at how these decks perform in northern grasses? (KBG/fescue/rye mix)

Also in the mix are:

Deere 930M
Scag Tiger Cat (but hear the cockpit is tight)
Gravely (not sure which model yet)

Bad Boy and Toro are out because the dealer won't install a mulch kit for me to try. Oh well.

Thanks in advance for your help!

I doubt you will have any problems, unless you try to cut when the grass is too long or too wet. We have sold a few units with the mulch kit. No one has had any complaints. Don't bad mouth the dealer just because he won't install a mulch kit so you can try it. Takes about an hour to install and then if you don't buy it must come off, another hour. At $80/hr that gets expensive for no sale. That would be for each unit if the dealer carried both lines. I would have told you the same, sorry.

Then you wouldn't have got my business...pretty simple. You want me to buy a $9000 anything without trying it the way I want it? I'm not a sheep like you want your customers to be.
Must be nice to sell on your word. I took somebody's word last summer and it cost me lots of $$$$.
Never again.
Edit - an hour to install and another hour to remove? What a bunch of BS. I do it myself in 20 min.
edit 2 - you aren't even a dealer...you're a grease monkey
Edit 3 - forget it.....

1striper1 said:

My search for a ZTR has expanded. Also now looking at a Kubota Z726X 60" deck with a Kawi KX 801. Will be testing one with a mulch kit.

Anybody have any firsthand knowledge at how these decks perform in northern grasses? (KBG/fescue/rye mix)

Also in the mix are:

Deere 930M
Scag Tiger Cat (but hear the cockpit is tight)
Gravely (not sure which model yet)

Bad Boy and Toro are out because the dealer won't install a mulch kit for me to try. Oh well.

Thanks in advance for your help!

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The only type lawns I have seen them mow around here are generally Bermuda with different clover and weeds in some lawns. Maybe a few patches of fescue. The ones I have used and seen mow leave a nice cut. Can't say about one with a mulch kit. I really like them. They are my favorite of the kubota line.

With your attitude I'm glad you won't be coming to my dealership, no one will please you. You came to this forum asking for info and then when you are given an honest answer, which you don't like or understand, you blast me. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question. I may be a "grease monkey", but have worked in this business for 40+ years, so I think I have a little better background than you. Finally, if you can install a mulch kit on a Kubota Z in 20 minutes, you should have no trouble paying $10,000 for your unit, because you are better than 99% of the certified mechanics out there. Good luck to the dealer you buy from, they will need it.

Rivets said:

With your attitude I'm glad you won't be coming to my dealership, no one will please you. You came to this forum asking for info and then when you are given an honest answer, which you don't like or understand, you blast me. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question. I may be a "grease monkey", but have worked in this business for 40+ years, so I think I have a little better background than you. Finally, if you can install a mulch kit on a Kubota Z in 20 minutes, you should have no trouble paying $10,000 for your unit, because you are better than 99% of the certified mechanics out there. Good luck to the dealer you buy from, they will need it.

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Oh boo hoo Mr. Toro sticking up for "your" dealer who won't try to satisfy a customer after telling me how they will "blow away" a Deere and "the Big Block" B&S sounds like a Harley engine. I knew more about their mowers than they did. ICGARA about how the engine sounds.

All he wants to do in the end is sell me a mower that he has in stock. At least the Scag and Gravely dealers will get one in and install a mulch kit and let me try it. The JD dealer 1.5 miles from me is letting me mow my lawn. The Kubota, Scag and Gravely dealers are not close but at least I can mow with a mulch kit.

I tried to buy from them (Toro/Bad Boy dealer) as they are 5 miles from me. I'm not naming them out of respect.

And your profile says " After 34 yrs of teaching I now work part time for a dealer who has supported our program". Lord knows I'd stand up for your dealership as well.

I lost my *** $$ wise on a ZTR that I bought because the dealer in essence "said it would". Guess what....it didn't and they wouldn't stand behind the sale.

So yeah.....I'm pissed at myself (because it cost my family $$) and don't trust the ZTR dealers.

So you don't want my business? No problem....go sell to the other 90% of the people who are sheep.

Read about mooch91 in the Hustler forum. Dealer didn't sell him the right mower. Happened to me last year and I won't let it happen again.

EDIT - assuming the holes are already in the deck for the plates, the only reason it takes an hour is because the certified techs are GIVEN an hour. Just like auto dealer wrenches. Just because the book says 3 hours to do a job, it doesn't mean it takes 3 hours to do the job.

Shughes717 said:

The only type lawns I have seen them mow around here are generally Bermuda with different clover and weeds in some lawns. Maybe a few patches of fescue. The ones I have used and seen mow leave a nice cut. Can't say about one with a mulch kit. I really like them. They are my favorite of the kubota line.

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Thanks shughes. Looking for any feedback ON THE MOWER....good or bad.

It sure is nice to be back in the classroom listening to the student that knows it all and wants to bully his way to the front of the class, brings back memories. For someone who knows so much about the small engine business, why are you asking questions? You just said you knew more than the dealers. The dealership I work for has been in business for over fifty years and has a reputation of being the top dealership in the area. There are over sixty dealerships within a fifty mile radius You don't get a rep like that trying to fleece customers. Yes, I am standing up for all dealerships who won't cuddle to your wishes. There might be a reason you have lost a lot of money on bad choices, and it might not be a salesman?? Good luck in your search and the dealer you buy from, you'll both need it. If someone else posts on this thread, make sure you are very positive, or you will receive a rant similar to the one I got.

Sounds like a true city boy. GFY CB.

Forgot to add: Keep posting where you really have no.business posting. You just keep running up your post count and the amount of the PayPal credit you get.
Ha ha ha

And this all started with me saying "oh well". Wonder what he would have said if I ripped the Toro dealer?

Sorry, grew up milking 35 head and tilling 435 acres. Taught school where FFA was the biggest organization for students. I'm assuming that you know what that means. I never said what equipment dealer I work for, I am just standing up for every (doesn't matter the line) dealer who will not be bullied by a customer who thinks the dealer should bow down to any customer demands. You found a dealer who will and I hope that he is able to stay in business for a long time, but I do know how this business works and every time he does what you want, but doesn't make a sale, he loses money big time. To the next customer, that piece of equipment must be listed as a demo unit and will then be sold at a lower price if he is honest. That is one rule dealer are supposed to live by. Do you want to pay full price for a unit that someone has used, but decided not to buy? Oh, I forgot you knew that.

I have been reading these posts, and they are getting a little personal. Rivets and 1striper1, I was a member of the FFA as well. Grew up working on a cotton farm. My parents have owned horses all my life. My father also raises the meat we eat (Piedmontese cows) and we canned our own vegetables. I try to stay positive as best I can when posting, but sometimes we as members don't see eye to eye. I have had my epic battles with Ric. In the end we respect each other and realize that this site is here to help each other out by posting our experiences with certain equipment.

I see both points here. One of my best friends is a certified Harley Davidson mechanic and has explained to me how he got paid when he was working at the dealership. He did get a certain time allotted to do a job. If the job was allotted for 3 hours and he finished in two he got paid for 3 hours labor and got to start another job. He liked servicing the motorcycles because he could crank several out and make a lot of money. The difficult jobs (such as engine rebuilds) weren't as profitable for him, so he didn't like doing them. I agree with 1striper1 that it shouldn't take an hour to put a mulching attachment on a mower. However, I also agree with rivets because even if it doesn't take an hour that's what the time is allotted for, so the mechanic has to be paid for an hour's labor for putting it on and another hour for taking it off.

I don't think that asking a dealer if you can try their mower with a mulching attachment is bullying, because any consumer should be sure he/she is getting what they want before they purchase. It is reasonable to ask a dealer if you can try their product using the attachments you plan on using once you make the purchase. I can also understand why a dealer may not be willing to put the attachment on, because they don't want to eat the mechanics salary if they don't make a sale. Every business' main goal is to stay in the black and make money. Minimize cost and maximize profit (basic economics). If I owned a dealership I would probably put the attachment on the mower and let the consumer try it. If I didn't make the sale I would simply leave the attachment on for the time being in case someone else wanted to demo a mower with the mulching attachment. If the mower was purchased by someone who didn't want the attachment I would take it off before the sale.
Just my 2 cents and probably isn't worth a penny.:biggrin:

Shrugs, you do make some good points, but a few are not accurate. I don't know of one small engine dealer who uses a time allotment for any job. Don't even think there is one, except for warranty jobs, which the manufacturer sets. Most use reasonable time and parts to charge out the job. Comparing this industry with the transportation industry is not reasonable. Only thing they really have in common is, they both have employees with the same titles. Putting on an accessory so a customer can try it, is normally not cost effective. I the hour I posted includes, getting the unit off the lot, getting the accessory out of storage, unboxing and making sure all parts are there, removing unneeded parts on the unit, installing accessory, (taking ultra care that fasteners do not scratch because it may come back off), box up removed parts and put in storage, test unit with accessory, and return unit to lot. Now if the tester driver doesn't buy I have to repeat the process, plus clean and prep the unit to go back up for sale. Remember the customer is not asking to give it a test drive on our concrete parting lot. I now have two pieces of demo equipment and a two hour labor bill that the dealer must now eat.

Most people on this forum have little or no idea how this business runs. They think we get whole goods and parts for price XXX, mark it up 50-75%, charge $75-100/hr. and have money rolling in from the sheep. Look back over the last 25 years and see how many dealers and repair shops in your area are no longer there. I will continue to battle anyone who try's to put down the good dealers and shops, because we will not do as they wish. They can take their ball and play on a different lot. We will not miss them.

Rivets said:

Shrugs, you do make some good points, but a few are not accurate. I don't know of one small engine dealer who uses a time allotment for any job. Don't even think there is one, except for warranty jobs, which the manufacturer sets. Most use reasonable time and parts to charge out the job. Comparing this industry with the transportation industry is not reasonable. Only thing they really have in common is, they both have employees with the same titles. Putting on an accessory so a customer can try it, is normally not cost effective. I the hour I posted includes, getting the unit off the lot, getting the accessory out of storage, unboxing and making sure all parts are there, removing unneeded parts on the unit, installing accessory, (taking ultra care that fasteners do not scratch because it may come back off), box up removed parts and put in storage, test unit with accessory, and return unit to lot. Now if the tester driver doesn't buy I have to repeat the process, plus clean and prep the unit to go back up for sale. Remember the customer is not asking to give it a test drive on our concrete parting lot. I now have two pieces of demo equipment and a two hour labor bill that the dealer must now eat.

Most people on this forum have little or no idea how this business runs. They think we get whole goods and parts for price XXX, mark it up 50-75%, charge $75-100/hr. and have money rolling in from the sheep. Look back over the last 25 years and see how many dealers and repair shops in your area are no longer there. I will continue to battle anyone who try's to put down the good dealers and shops, because we will not do as they wish. They can take their ball and play on a different lot. We will not miss them.

Click to expand...

I do business with a small dealer in my area. They have been in business as long as I can remember. They stand by their equipment and treat you like a neighbor. They do charge about $80 an hour for labor. If the job doesn't take an hour I still get charged $80. It is the norm around here. We also have dealers in my area that will bring a mower to your house to demo. I have learned by reading posts on this site that dealers follow different guidelines across the U.S.. There are apparently a lot of dealers who will only let their customer test their mowers on their parking lot. I for one want to test a mower before I purchase. I always suggest that to those looking to purchase. Consumers should be sure they like the product before making a significant purchase such as a commercial mower. Would you purchase a car without test driving it down the road? We have always done the same with farm equipment. The dealers would let us demo a tractor on the farm before purchase.

Rivets said:

Most people on this forum have little or no idea how this business runs. Look back over the last 25 years and see how many dealers and repair shops in your area are no longer there. I will continue to battle anyone who try's to put down the good dealers and shops, because we will not do as they wish. They can take their ball and play on a different lot. We will not miss them.

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All I said was "oh well". I did not put them down in any way, shape or form. My original post didn't say word 1 about his stupid comments about the BB Briggs sounding like a Harley....and other dumb *** stuff he said. You took it personally and gave it to me....and I gave it back and will keep giving it back. Don't get into a war of words with me because you will not win.

Every other dealer I have talked to is willing to install a mulch kit. EVERY OTHER DEALER. Read what I said? EVERY OTHER DEALER! If 4 of 5 dealers said NO, then it's up to me to decide. But they are trying to help me and I am grateful.

Please, let's bury the hatchet and move on. I am looking for help to make the most informed decision I can.

In my first post I answer your question. Then I stood up for the dealer who told you NO, which I am still doing. You walked out on that customer, so I tried to explain why he said NO. That's when you decided to blast me. I will continue to try to explain how this business works to those who don't understand it. If you have read my other posts, you will see that I have blasted bad dealers also. You can call me any thing you like, it does not matter to me. My rep on this forum stands for itself and you are not the first or will be the last to try to take me down. Bury the hatchet, I didn't even take mine out of the sheath. Never got that far, if it would have, you would have seen red.

Don't go away mad, just go away ok?

Shughes717 said:

I do business with a small dealer in my area. They have been in business as long as I can remember. They stand by their equipment and treat you like a neighbor. They do charge about $80 an hour for labor. If the job doesn't take an hour I still get charged $80. It is the norm around here. We also have dealers in my area that will bring a mower to your house to demo. I have learned by reading posts on this site that dealers follow different guidelines across the U.S.. There are apparently a lot of dealers who will only let their customer test their mowers on their parking lot. I for one want to test a mower before I purchase. I always suggest that to those looking to purchase. Consumers should be sure they like the product before making a significant purchase such as a commercial mower. Would you purchase a car without test driving it down the road? We have always done the same with farm equipment. The dealers would let us demo a tractor on the farm before purchase.

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LOL wow I didn't know we had battles of epic proportion :laughing: As far as the demo thing goes, I don't think I've ever known of a dealer here in this area that would ever let anyone demo a mower. They don't even let you drive one in the parking lot. Someone mentioned something about buying a car without driving it first, well I can tell you I've done that more than once, in fact I never test drove the new F 150 before I purchased it and I've never demo a lawn mower of any type and for the most part there are not many dealers that even offer a demo because it's not cost effective at least that's the story I got from the dealership where I purchase my stuff and they sell Toro, Hustler, Scag and Cub Cadet.

All of the dealers in my area except one WILL let me demo a mower and even with a mulch kit. One dealer, a JD dealer will let me demo it at home.

Different policies in different areas I guess.

But demo's are not the topic of this thread.

Ric said:

LOL wow I didn't know we had battles of epic proportion :laughing: As far as the demo thing goes, I don't think I've ever known of a dealer here in this area that would ever let anyone demo a mower. They don't even let you drive one in the parking lot. Someone mentioned something about buying a car without driving it first, well I can tell you I've done that more than once, in fact I never test drove the new F 150 before I purchased it and I've never demo a lawn mower of any type and for the most part there are not many dealers that even offer a demo because it's not cost effective at least that's the story I got from the dealership where I purchase my stuff and they sell Toro, Hustler, Scag and Cub Cadet.

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It's just how it's done here. We demo everything before we purchase. I also always test drive cars and trucks before making a purchase. I want to get a feel for the ride, and listen for any annoying cabin noises. The mower dealers who allow potential customers to demo their mowers will usually have one demo unit they will use throughout the year and sell it at a discounted price at the end of the season. It must be pretty common in other places as well. I see on here all the time where members are looking at purchasing a "demo mower". It may be a southern thing.

As for not being aware of the epic battles, you must have missed out on the ones Ric and I had last year. Some other members even tried to referee. Lol

Don't see why I should go away, does the truth hurt? Ric, you and I have had a better battles than this, but we are professionals in our trades. How dealers in different areas of the country deal with customers is going to vary, which I understand. What I will never agree to, is that a dealer should always bow down to the wishes of the customer or they are a bad dealer. Striper has his opinion, which based on my experience is totally misguided, based on my knowledge of the industry. His statements indicate his knowledge of this business are more accurate and that he knows more than the techs and dealers. He personally attack me (read post #6 & #9) even though he has no idea of my background or knowledge. If you read his posts you cannot tell if he is more upset with me or a Toro dealer. Anyone who has been on this forum know that I always try to answer honestly and with bare facts to questions asked. I am not afraid of what people think of me, but will always be confident that I have provided the best answer I am capable of. When proven wrong, I am the first to admit to my error, and have had to do so more than once. No, I will not go away either happy or mad and Ric let's show him what a real battle is, how about non-ethanol gas??? Finally, the Kubota Z726 with a mulch kit will do a good job and make a homeowners lawn look great, depending on the experience and knowledge of the operator.

Rivets said:

Don't see why I should go away, does the truth hurt? Ric, you and I have had a better battles than this, but we are professionals in our trades. How dealers in different areas of the country deal with customers is going to vary, which I understand. What I will never agree to, is that a dealer should always bow down to the wishes of the customer or they are a bad dealer. Striper has his opinion, which based on my experience is totally misguided, based on my knowledge of the industry. His statements indicate his knowledge of this business are more accurate and that he knows more than the techs and dealers. He personally attack me (read post #6 & #9) even though he has no idea of my background or knowledge. If you read his posts you cannot tell if he is more upset with me or a Toro dealer. Anyone who has been on this forum know that I always try to answer honestly and with bare facts to questions asked. I am not afraid of what people think of me, but will always be confident that I have provided the best answer I am capable of. When proven wrong, I am the first to admit to my error, and have had to do so more than once. No, I will not go away either happy or mad and Ric let's show him what a real battle is, how about non-ethanol gas??? Finally, the Kubota Z726 with a mulch kit will do a good job and make a homeowners lawn look great, depending on the experience and knowledge of the operator.

Click to expand...

Haha, ding ding ding ding ding! Here we go, non ethanol gas. Thoughts?

Yep...TRUST ME says the dealer. It's a great mower! Just hand me a check for 9 grand and TRUST ME.

TRUST ME....just like King Obama said during his first campaign. How's his hope and change worked out for our country?

TRUST ME. ......even though all those other dealer's say it's ok to demo, they're idiots who don't know how to run a business. TRUST ME.

TRUST ME....BELIEVE IN ME.....I have 5400 posts that I've got paid for. I KNOW WHAT'S RIGHT AND WHAT'S WRONG.

MY WORD IS THE WORD OF A TIRED BORED OLD MAN WHO FEELS SELF IMPORTANT BY POSTING (and getting paid for it) HIS BULLSEYE KNOWING THAT BECAUSE I HAVE 5400 POSTS YOU WILL BELIEVE ME.

Boy this is fun. I think I'll start cutting and pasting stuff here from the www. Maybe even stuff about Kubotas.

Kubota decks are 6". Wow.

So many engine and deck choices!

I think I'll cut and paste this whole thread onto the JD, Ferris, Scag, Gravely and Hustler forums. I need info about those brands too!

See ya over there!

Shughes717 said:

It's just how it's done here. We demo everything before we purchase. I also always test drive cars and trucks before making a purchase. I want to get a feel for the ride, and listen for any annoying cabin noises. The mower dealers who allow potential customers to demo their mowers will usually have one demo unit they will use throughout the year and sell it at a discounted price at the end of the season. It must be pretty common in other places as well. I see on here all the time where members are looking at purchasing a "demo mower". It may be a southern thing.

As for not being aware of the epic battles, you must have missed out on the ones Ric and I had last year. Some other members even tried to referee. Lol

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I haven't test drove any new truck or car I've every purchased from Ford, don't have too because I trust Ford and the people at the dealership. I can tell you this and you probably wont believe it but the wife and I have been married for 42 years and in those years we've owned 52 different cars and trucks :laughing: of coarse it didn't help matters that the wife would go through one or two cars some years because she was a postal employee and drove 80 miles a day on a rural route 6 days a week.

It's basically the same with my mowers. In the last 10 years of business I've purchased 9 mowers from the same dealership and never done a demo on 1 mower. I asked a couple of times but the guy said nope we don't do that. I do have too admit though the only mower I had doubts about was the Grandstand because I'd never used one of those before and driving the thing on and off the trailer was kinda of freaky at first.

I think Rivets mentioned the ethanol battle personally if I wanted to open a can of worms I think the synthetic oil battle would be a better choice :laughing:

Ric said:

I haven't test drove any new truck or car I've every purchased from Ford, don't have too because I trust Ford and the people at the dealership. I can tell you this and you probably wont believe it but the wife and I have been married for 42 years and in those years we've owned 52 different cars and trucks :laughing: of coarse it didn't help matters that the wife would go through one or two cars some years because she was a postal employee and drove 80 miles a day on a rural route 6 days a week.

It's basically the same with my mowers. In the last 10 years of business I've purchased 9 mowers from the same dealership and never done a demo on 1 mower. I asked a couple of times but the guy said nope we don't do that. I do have too admit though the only mower I had doubts about was the Grandstand because I'd never used one of those before and driving the thing on and off the trailer was kinda of freaky at first.

I think Rivets mentioned the ethanol battle personally if I wanted to open a can of worms I think the synthetic oil battle would be a better choice :laughing:

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Ok, ding ding ding ding ding! Synthetic oil, thoughts rivets? :laughing:

Where I live my whole family lives on rough country roads. I do live very close to a 4 lane to get to work, but my wife puts a lot of miles on a car as well. We too have been through several vehicles. We have been together for only 17 years but have gone through 9 vehicles between that time. Another good can of worms to open would be truck brand preference. :laughing: ding ding ding ding ding! Thoughts?

Shughes717 said:

Ok, ding ding ding ding ding! Synthetic oil, thoughts rivets? :laughing:

Where I live my whole family lives on rough country roads. I do live very close to a 4 lane to get to work, but my wife puts a lot of miles on a car as well. We too have been through several vehicles. We have been together for only 17 years but have gone through 9 vehicles between that time. Another good can of worms to open would be truck brand preference. :laughing: ding ding ding ding ding! Thoughts?

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OK..... truck brand preference.... now you are really trying to start trouble :laughing:

I think we've made our point, time to let this one die and go the way of the Fish.