No start - Chicago Electric Gen 13 HP

[mi79]

Today my Dad went to start his 13 hp Chicago Electric generator (Honda clone I believe), and it wouldn't start. The last time it was started/run was probably a month ago, he does start it every so often as a maintenance measure. It has an electric start with a large battery (with maintainer), so it turns over fast/easily. Also tried to pull-start, no luck.

Plenty of fuel, used the choke, fuel valve is on. It doesn't even try to start, only turns over (via. starter). I opened the bolt on the side of the carb bowl, has fuel. With a shot of starting fluid it will fire/buck for a second, but quickly dies.

The unit is less than two years old, and has no more than an hour on it. Thankfully we haven't had any power outages since it was purchased, but that may be part of the problem.

I won't be able to check it until this coming week, but I plan to check the plug, valves and fuel solenoid (anti dieseling solenoid).

Would greatly appreciate any input. Also, I noticed the drain cap on the bottom of the fuel shut-off is an elongated plastic piece with a square molded into the end... Is there any reason they didn't just use a standard metal cap? Is the plastic cap threaded?

Thanks again!

 

[Rivets]

I would start by carefully removing the float bowl and inspect the inside. My guess is that you will find a jelly like substance inside. If this is the case, clean everything you can, reassemble and give it another try. Post back what you find and what happens.

 

[mi79]

I would start by carefully removing the float bowl and inspect the inside. My guess is that you will find a jelly like substance inside. If this is the case, clean everything you can, reassemble and give it another try. Post back what you find and what happens.

Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to remember how much clearance there is between the float bowl and the solenoid, didn't seem like enough for an open-end wrench.. Have tried to find examples on youtube, but none of them show how to remove the solenoid.

 

[Rivets]

Yes, there is not much clearance there. I use an automotive tappet wrench, which is thinner than a standard wrench. Many mechanics will just take an older standard wrench and grind the sides flat until they get the right thickness to get in there.

 

[mi79]

So far I've only been able to drain the carb using the bolt on the side of the bowl. The fuel was really green. The brass colored fasteners (philips head) on the bottom won't move, feels like the heads will snap off before they come loose. If I were able to remove them, would the solenoid drop out allowing access to the nut between it and the bowl? Would the bowl simply fall out after removing the nut?

Thanks again.

 

[ILENGINE]

If you remove the two phillips head screws holding on the solenoid, you can then remove the bowl nut, to remove the bowl. Helps to use locking pliers to loosen the screws for the first time, otherwise you may strip the heads. Also check the float valve for corrosion. those ruixing( pronounced rooksing) carbs have a tendency to have float valve corrosion problems on some carbs. either will stick open and leak or stick shut and then will either run until the bowl is empty or not start at all.

 

[mi79]

If you remove the two phillips head screws holding on the solenoid, you can then remove the bowl nut, to remove the bowl. Helps to use locking pliers to loosen the screws for the first time, otherwise you may strip the heads. Also check the float valve for corrosion. those ruixing( pronounced rooksing) carbs have a tendency to have float valve corrosion problems on some carbs. either will stick open and leak or stick shut and then will either run until the bowl is empty or not start at all.

Thanks for the tip on removing the screws, there's no way they would've come out without locking pliers...ended up using them and the screwdriver simultaneously.

The bowl was a mess inside. I didn't find any gel, but it had a bunch of green grit/paste inside. The solenoid felt like it was stuck, but seems to work freely after cleaning it. The bigger issue was the float valve. I had to slowly turn it back and forth with pliers before it would even come out. Covered with corrosion and pits. After cleaning the metal portion with towels and a bit of steel wool (probably not the best option), it slides pretty freely inside the tube. The tube was cleaned out with a cotton swab, found more green paste in there. It may still be a problem, but at least it moves now.

I've seen carbs rebuilt at least a dozen times on youtube, but didn't even think to check the jet/emulsion tube before putting things back together. Was also running short on time. Needless to say, it still doesn't start. It will run for a few seconds on starting fluid, however, so I'm guessing the valves and ignition are operating as they should. I also noticed some fuel leaking from either the top of the bowl or the gasket on the engine side of the carb. If the float valve isn't fully closing, will it leak from that area? Could be I just need to re-seat the bowl (will be doing that either way).

I apologize for the long post, but greatly appreciate all of the responses. Feels like I might be getting somewhere on this. I'm very thankful I came across this forum, hopefully I'll be able to contribute in the future.

 

[ILENGINE]

If the needle valve isn't sealing you will get some fuel leaks from some odd places, especially if the emulsion tube is plugged. Just for a heads up, the needle valve will probably be corroded and restuck in about 2 weeks.

 

[HarryHarley]

Just out of curiosity, are you using ethanol based gas?

 

[mi79]

Have been wanting to post an update, but haven't had time until now. After pulling the carb apart again, and cleaning the jet and emulsion tube, it is now running. I know it isn't recommended, but I used a strand from a wire brush (very carefully). The opening in the jet and tube is far larger than the wire, so it's unlikely it harmed anything.

As for the fuel, every station in the area (and most of MI) sells only E10 these days. Many also sell E85, but that wasn't used in this case. I was able to drain most of the old gas from the tank and carb, and replace it with fuel treated with Sta-Bil (marine ethanol treatment). I would've used their regular ethanol treatment, but the place I stopped at didn't have any.

I didn't expect it to run, as I tested the fuel solenoid before re installing it by cranking the engine while it was removed from the carb. The solenoid didn't move at all. It has two wires connected to it, so I assume it doesn't need to be grounded to activate. Is that correct? I suppose I'm more curious about that than anything, being that it does run.

The last issue probably has to do with the needle valve. If the fuel is left on while the engine is off, gas slowly leaks out of the carb into the filter box. The generator is on a slight incline, with the filter being lower than the engine. I told him to run the engine once a week, and only have the fuel valve open while it's running. Is there any chance a Honda rebuild kit would work, or am I out of line for even asking such a question?

Thanks again for the help!