I’m in the market for a new push mower. I’m soured on Briggs and Stratton after owning one for ten years that was a real piece. I’d like to find a Kawasaki on something (I work for Kawasaki) but they only seem to be on commercial mowers which are a little outside my budget. My Toro snowblower has a Toro engine and it starts. Every. Time. I’d love a Toro but they only use B&S. The budget is $500-$800. Any thoughts?
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Need a Mower Recommendation
- Thread starter Bigpappa1
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Export threadThe Toro mowers only have a couple of models which use Briggs engines. The majority use a Loncin engine which I have found to be very reliable. I would recommend the Super Recycler model, cast deck, which is well within your price range. My old one lasted for 2+ years and I bought a new one five years ago and haven’t had a problem with it.
Thanks for the reply! When I look on Toro’s site, it seems pretty much all of their push mowers are using B&S. I wouldn’t indiscriminately hate on B&S, but I’ve even talked to some of their employees who say their stuff has gone downhill. With them closing their WI facility, I can only imagine what’s next…
bertsmobile1
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The push mower market is very price sensitive so it is a case of cheapness outsells quality 5000 to 1
Quality costs money and if the mower is making you money then quality , longevity & ease of maintenance are a lot more important than the price tag.
So commercial mowers have better engines than domestic mowers .
B & S has been in take out profits mode for decades & done next to nothing in the way of upgrading their engines .
So as they get squeezed on price the quality goes down.
They have also been designed to use the cheapest available parts, thus the smallest number of the screws that will do the job .
They have not realized that times have changed, slave labour is no longer available so reduced number of different fasteners & making engines easier to assemble is the route to profits.
Loncin engines are made in a new factory designed off the GCV Honda engine , slightly reworked so it can be 100% machine assembled thus it will be a lot cheaper than a B &S to start with and that is before the artifically low exchange rate makes them almost a give away price .
As a long time mower mechanic friend used to say
There was nothing wrong with a 1950 B & S engine so there is nothing wrong with the current one as the only change is plastic has replaced the steel & plastic does not rust .
I for one have stopped using B & S engines and only fit Kawakasi , Loncin or Ducar engines now days
Kawakasi if the customer has a good quality mower that has a lot of life left in it , Chinese engine is the mower is not far from the scrap metal bin.
The only reason to fit B & S in the past was parts availability and now that B & S Aust can not be bothered to bring in parts I am not going to import them to keep my customers mowers running .
Quality costs money and if the mower is making you money then quality , longevity & ease of maintenance are a lot more important than the price tag.
So commercial mowers have better engines than domestic mowers .
B & S has been in take out profits mode for decades & done next to nothing in the way of upgrading their engines .
So as they get squeezed on price the quality goes down.
They have also been designed to use the cheapest available parts, thus the smallest number of the screws that will do the job .
They have not realized that times have changed, slave labour is no longer available so reduced number of different fasteners & making engines easier to assemble is the route to profits.
Loncin engines are made in a new factory designed off the GCV Honda engine , slightly reworked so it can be 100% machine assembled thus it will be a lot cheaper than a B &S to start with and that is before the artifically low exchange rate makes them almost a give away price .
As a long time mower mechanic friend used to say
There was nothing wrong with a 1950 B & S engine so there is nothing wrong with the current one as the only change is plastic has replaced the steel & plastic does not rust .
I for one have stopped using B & S engines and only fit Kawakasi , Loncin or Ducar engines now days
Kawakasi if the customer has a good quality mower that has a lot of life left in it , Chinese engine is the mower is not far from the scrap metal bin.
The only reason to fit B & S in the past was parts availability and now that B & S Aust can not be bothered to bring in parts I am not going to import them to keep my customers mowers running .
Forgive me for sounding a little dumb, but are you saying I could fit a Kawasaki on my existing mower? The Husqvarna mower itself seems very solid, but that engine…not a fan…The push mower market is very price sensitive so it is a case of cheapness outsells quality 5000 to 1
Quality costs money and if the mower is making you money then quality , longevity & ease of maintenance are a lot more important than the price tag.
So commercial mowers have better engines than domestic mowers .
B & S has been in take out profits mode for decades & done next to nothing in the way of upgrading their engines .
So as they get squeezed on price the quality goes down.
They have also been designed to use the cheapest available parts, thus the smallest number of the screws that will do the job .
They have not realized that times have changed, slave labour is no longer available so reduced number of different fasteners & making engines easier to assemble is the route to profits.
Loncin engines are made in a new factory designed off the GCV Honda engine , slightly reworked so it can be 100% machine assembled thus it will be a lot cheaper than a B &S to start with and that is before the artifically low exchange rate makes them almost a give away price .
As a long time mower mechanic friend used to say
There was nothing wrong with a 1950 B & S engine so there is nothing wrong with the current one as the only change is plastic has replaced the steel & plastic does not rust .
I for one have stopped using B & S engines and only fit Kawakasi , Loncin or Ducar engines now days
Kawakasi if the customer has a good quality mower that has a lot of life left in it , Chinese engine is the mower is not far from the scrap metal bin.
The only reason to fit B & S in the past was parts availability and now that B & S Aust can not be bothered to bring in parts I am not going to import them to keep my customers mowers running .
bertsmobile1
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Usually yes
AFAIK all push mower engines now days have the same mounting centres, the B & S one .
However there are a lot of different PTO lengths because of the blade brakes / clutches & other stupidity
Honda used to have different centres but they changed a while back
PTO shafts can be 7/8" or 20 mm depending if it is a USA or rest of the planet mower.
After that you may have to get a universal throttle cable & cut it down to fit .
A while back there was a mile of Honda engines at the Surplus Center
Go to one of the "repower" sites . most have lists of engine mountings .
Then measure your mower
Most push mower engines are self contained & have their own muffler & fuel tank.
Some times some engines need to be mounted east west so that the cylinder casting or muffler will clear the discharge chute on rear discharge models .
Usually you can get the drawing full size as PDF, so you can print it , put it out then see if it lines up with your engine.
AFAIK all push mower engines now days have the same mounting centres, the B & S one .
However there are a lot of different PTO lengths because of the blade brakes / clutches & other stupidity
Honda used to have different centres but they changed a while back
PTO shafts can be 7/8" or 20 mm depending if it is a USA or rest of the planet mower.
After that you may have to get a universal throttle cable & cut it down to fit .
A while back there was a mile of Honda engines at the Surplus Center
Go to one of the "repower" sites . most have lists of engine mountings .
Then measure your mower
Most push mower engines are self contained & have their own muffler & fuel tank.
Some times some engines need to be mounted east west so that the cylinder casting or muffler will clear the discharge chute on rear discharge models .
Usually you can get the drawing full size as PDF, so you can print it , put it out then see if it lines up with your engine.
Big papa, I just went to the shop and called my contact at Toro about the engines used on the new Super Recyclers. You are correct Toro has changed over to B & S engines on most of all their units. Because of the shipping delays they were not able to get a steady supply of Loncin engines last year and made the switch. Asked if they would be making a change back in the future and His comment was “your guess is as good as mine “. He did say that the only problem they’ve encountered is a bad valve cover gasket on the cheapest model. I’m a Toro guy, but based on this info I am going to have to rethink my recommendations on their push mowers, because of the engine change. I’ve been through many changes in their units in the last 40 years, so I guess for me it’s still a recommendation, with a caveat that changes come with learning curves. I hope Toro hasn’t shut themselves in the foot. Hope this helps.
Hey Rivets. Yeah, I wondered if it might be something like that. The engine on my Toro snowblower is unstoppable. I’d get that engine all day long. Again, being that I work for Kawasaki (I will actually be at the engine plant next week) I’d love one of those, but just too much juice/price for my needs. Tough to justify a $1,500 mower on an average yard. I’m kind of leaning Honda right now, though Cub Cadet has caught my attention. Bummer. I would snatch up a Toro first choice if not for that engine…
Big Papa, might want to check out this thread, as it has the Briggs engine. https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/thre...ace-smartstow-super-recycler-21”-mower.66796/