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So heres the story, Got this saw as a no start saw is in like new condition so thought it would be worth getting it back to running condition. For sure it did not start so this is what I have done.

Changed all fuel, fuel lines, filter, new plug replaced all carb internal gaskets and diaphragms,flushed carb more than once. Did get it to start once but didn't get the carb set so let it set till the next day but than again would not start. Saw has good spark and also found that with a bit of starting fluid it will run but just can't get the thing to run on its own. After reading thru this site maybe the PrimeLine Gasket set may not be up to par to be using?
It is a Zama C1 1702A carb and they don't seem to be available anymore so can't get a new one. Just has me confused as to what I may be missing or not doing right. It also has good compression. Best I can figure is it is still fuel related but can't get it to run. Did a vaccum test on carb and it does hold vaccum if that means anything.
Hoping that someone has an idea as to what I am missing. Thanks

First, the Prme Line kit will be fine, provided that it is the right one for your saw.
Second did you test the crankcase seals ?
Buggered seals manifest themselves as starting problems .
Third , did you pull the muffler & check for bore damage ?

The most common reason for an almost new looking saw not starting is destroyed bore from running an strait fuel
Runs for about 10 to 30 minutes on the assembly lube then stops, forever.

I can pull the muffler and see what the bore looks like. Don't know how to check the crankcase seals. Still in the dark as to why I did get it running for a while but than the next morning it would not run again. If I can I will look into the exhaust check today. I did look into the intake side of the piston and cylinder and that looked good but will look at the other as suggested and will get back to you.

Well it can be ordered gaskets and saw flooded out out overnight. Also it could be a failed kit too. I had one those rare cases recently with an OEM Walbro kit cause by the customers fuel mix. It destroyed the metering diaphragm. So I put in another diaphragm and as sent the saw back; I also included two packs of the Pro multi mix oil that I sale along. Got a report back a couple weeks later that everything was fine. I still do not know the customer used for fuel mix.

About the only thing vac testing can test for on this carburetor is if he fuel pump side is sealed. Doesn't test for a leaky valve as that is done using pressure and it should pressure for several minutes without leakage.

Crankcase test require block off plates (or rubber pieces of inner tube) to seal the intake and exhaust ports. If impulse port is used, it too need blocking. Then using a modified spark plug pressurize the engine to 7 psi and check for down should this pressure for several minutes without leakage. And there is the vacuum test of about 15 inches of vacuum using the method of testing and leakage rates. Seals can leak under pressure or vacuum. Leakage under pressure can found using soapy water spray on the seals and any mating gaskets and it bubble up where there is a leakage.

Note OEM block plates have nipple installed so you don't need a modified spark plug or if the engine has separate impulse port then it is used.

Also after kit installs and tuning there are times the unit will need re-tuning a few days later as things get settled in with fuel mix used. Most times it is only a slight re-tune but does happens.

And yes the Zama C1 17-02A is no longer available nor none it supersedes. It appears to be one of the first carburetors that Zama made since the repair kit is RB-1

OldDiyer said:

So heres the story, Got this saw as a no start saw is in like new condition so thought it would be worth getting it back to running condition. For sure it did not start so this is what I have done.

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I got a McCul 510. the motor is similar to yours. First, loosen the gas cap and try it- your carb should only have 1 hose from the tank. Maybe the cap is plugged and not venting.

Mine would run but i couldn't restart it. I found the plug was wet - running rich. I then experimented closing the high mix screw a hair at a time until It would run\restart fine.

Mine for the life of me, won't start without a spray of starter choke or not- but it restarts fine. Being i only use it occasionally cutting some wood and not for a job, I live with it.

With all of this, I bought a carb rebuild kit. It helped alot. Maybe you should consider the same. I read mine was made 1980+/- Yours is not much younger.

OK so I pulled the muffler and piston, cylinder walls all look like new. Before doing this I could start it with starting fluid but still would not run on its own fuel supply. I check the fuel cap and it is venting.
So now I am thinking of just ordering the rebuild kit instead of just the gasket diaphragm set and going thru the carb another time with the other replacement parts.
Could it be that spraying with carb cleaner that something in one of the ports got wrecked? When I watched a a Zama rebuild video they say not to spray directly in to any of the holes but others I saw this wasn't a problem?
Is there some way of checking the pulse on the pulse line? It is mounted directly to to block. I also pulled the carb again and both chambers have fuel in them. Thanks

OldDiyer said:

OK so I pulled the muffler and piston, cylinder walls all look like new. Before doing this I could start it with starting fluid but still would not run on its own fuel supply. I check the fuel cap and it is venting.
So now I am thinking of just ordering the rebuild kit instead of just the gasket diaphragm set and going thru the carb another time with the other replacement parts.
Could it be that spraying with carb cleaner that something in one of the ports got wrecked? When I watched a a Zama rebuild video they say not to spray directly in to any of the holes but others I saw this wasn't a problem?
Is there some way of checking the pulse on the pulse line? It is mounted directly to to block. I also pulled the carb again and both chambers have fuel in them. Thanks

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While people say carb cleaner\starting fluid will ruin motors, only if u run it for 10 min straight maybe. I use it all the time when i fiddle with stuff and have never ruined any. If I DO spray it numerous times, i just add some motor oil to the cyl itself JIC before going back and trying to start it. I especially did that when I first got my original FS80 and trying to make out exactly how the Japanese TK carb worked.

On mine.... the carb doesn't have a tube that air draws fuel from. It has a small "pad" where the gas evaporates off of like the carb in my 70'ish snapper briggs. Well, on mine, it is clogged or something but i drilled a 1/32" hole through mine and it works. Soaking the carb did nothing for me. Just saying....

Saws sit for untold days/years. Fuel will varnish up inside the carb. Carb needs heat and a good solvent soaking to unclog. Wife's dishwasher on hot pot scrubber mode works great.

Just saying most likely it was never drained prior to putting away. Carb is all gunked up.

slomo

OldDiyer said:

OK so I pulled the muffler and piston, cylinder walls all look like new. Before doing this I could start it with starting fluid but still would not run on its own fuel supply. I check the fuel cap and it is venting.
So now I am thinking of just ordering the rebuild kit instead of just the gasket diaphragm set and going thru the carb another time with the other replacement parts.
Could it be that spraying with carb cleaner that something in one of the ports got wrecked? When I watched a a Zama rebuild video they say not to spray directly in to any of the holes but others I saw this wasn't a problem?
Is there some way of checking the pulse on the pulse line? It is mounted directly to to block. I also pulled the carb again and both chambers have fuel in them. Thanks

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Simple check is to slip the carb off leaving the fuel lines inplace , turn it sideways and blow air through the carb.
If fuel sprays out the engine end then the carb is working
If no fuel the carb is clogged.
Now for the crunch
some of the carbs have check valves and if left with fuel in them will gum up .
Once this happens the carb is scrap metal as the check valves are not a replacement part .

Back again just to let everyone know whats up. I removed the carb again and am going to order the rebuild OEM rebuild kit and redo the rebuild again. I will for sure do the clean up again just in case I missed something. Well keep you posted as to how this comes out and again Thanks for all the advice. I haven't given up yet on this saw. Ha Ha

Might take a heat gun. Say remove a main jet. Blow some heat where the jet was. Get the area nice and toasty. Swab out with a swab stick of choice. Spray it down with some fire eye carb cleaner. Blow out with compressed air both ways.

slomo

OldDiyer said:

Back again just to let everyone know whats up. I removed the carb again and am going to order the rebuild OEM rebuild kit and redo the rebuild again. I will for sure do the clean up again just in case I missed something. Well keep you posted as to how this comes out and again Thanks for all the advice. I haven't given up yet on this saw. Ha Ha

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You might want to see if u can get another genuine carb and or a suitable substitute for a C1. By run do you mean it fired twice and died? You didn't mention what settings you had on your L and H jets. After seating, Zama recommends you start both on 2 and go from there.

A year ago I bought a Zama knockoff on ZomAcomb for $20 as a backup since I could not find the Zama rebuild kit reference chart at the time. The Jets were not robust like the original and it was probably a Zama reject, but I now have a rebuild kit and more for the original which is working. I crushed the H jet on it.

As a DIYer, I have found via my shoulder that getting a saw to run and tuning it are sometimes the same thing! It can be a SOB to do unless you have done 10,000 times like the pros online here. In my small sample set of Walbro and Zama carbs across Poulan, Husqvarna and Homelite sometimes you start at 1 1/4 turns and sometimes at 2. You can pull that cord all day and unless you are willing for patience and slowly adjusting it aint gonna fire. Where as a pro will know where to start and finishes in like in 10 min with 5 of those min letting the saw warm up while drinking coffee.

First off there is no new carbs in this part number to replace the one I have but if they were I would have got one. And I agree oldlawnguy I am also not good at pulling the ropes anymore as I suffer from COPD so it doesn't take much to put me on hold till I can get my air going again. By running I did get it going for maybe 5 min. or so but it stalled so I left it for the next day thinking it would start but of course it didn't and I seemed to back where I was in the first place with a no start. So at this point I am waiting on the OEM carb kit and will go thru that again and hope that it does the trick. Wish that Zama would give you a starting point for the HL adjustment but I could not find that on there site and even with their Vid on rebuilding the carb.

OldDiyer said:

First off there is no new carbs in this part number to replace the one I have but if they were I would have got one. And I agree oldlawnguy I am also not good at pulling the ropes anymore as I suffer from COPD so it doesn't take much to put me on hold till I can get my air going again. By running I did get it going for maybe 5 min. or so but it stalled so I left it for the next day thinking it would start but of course it didn't and I seemed to back where I was in the first place with a no start. So at this point I am waiting on the OEM carb kit and will go thru that again and hope that it does the trick. Wish that Zama would give you a starting point for the HL adjustment but I could not find that on there site and even with their Vid on rebuilding the carb.

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I did see that some C1 17-02A carbs were sold on EmptyBay where you always roll the dice, however you are correct none are available.

My previous reply did mention the recommend Zama starting point. Seat both jets gently, then turn out counter-clockwise 2 turns each. So L jet on 2 and H jet on 2 also. Also turn T screw all they way in and try with full choke so that throttle valve gets opened a crack.

It would be helpful if you can be outdoors in a garage or shed and can mount saw in a vice at workbench height. Take the chain off, but leave bar on as mount point. 1st step is to see if you can just keep running longer than 5 min. If saw has priming bulb, prime it 6 or 7 times. Give like 5 or 6 good pulls then if it looks like it's trying to fire push in choke 1/2 way and try again. If no go push choke in all the way and try again. Then if still no go turn out L jet 1/4 turn and repeat.

The magic which this forum helps you is to know when to turn out a jet or turn in a jet 1/4 at a time If eventually found even and 1/8 or 1/16 or a turn on jets and or Throttle screw have a noticable impact on engine.

Just for reference I have a saw with a Zama cab with L jet at 2 1/4 and T screw turned almost all they way out and it will just sit there and idle all day.

I will give that a try when I get everything back together. On this saw it has t throttle hold that keeps the throttle open for starting but does not have a primer bulb wish it did as it would be a lot better to get fuel to the carb when it is empty. Am suppose to get the kit on tuesday so well be back to the saw. In a way I wish this saw was just a piece of crap but it is a like new ( almost ) so thats why I am putting all this time in on it. I have a Mac 35 and a Mac 110 both are really good saws. Had the 110 since new and the Mac 35 for over 25 years was another gift no run when I got it.

Update and New Question, I was looking on E Bay and found a untested carb that is the one my saw uses so I purchased it for an offer price of $12.00 figured I couldn't go wrong. Now What would you guys do 1 rebuild again the one I have 2 rebuild the untested one I just bought or 3 just install untested and see what happens !!!! The card I am getting looks in good shape but who knows.

oldlawnguy said:

I did see that some C1 17-02A carbs were sold on EmptyBay where you always roll the dice,

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As oldlawnguy said, carbs from ebay and amazon are not recommended. They are Chi'sneeze clones, some work some don't. Lots of reworking it to make it fit and run. Been there done that. Not worth it to save a couple bucks. Chi'sneeze carbs are never 100% clones and drop-ins. Least the ones I've bought in the past. Clean or rebuild the OEM carb.

slomo

I get it for sure but this is not a new clone it is not a new carb but an OEM but was just removed from a saw and is being sold it is the same number as mine. I just asked the question in my last post what would be the best way to go with my carb problem. I also still have a OEM rebuild kit also coming. The kit is coming from another person.

If and when you spray carb cleaner, put safety glasses on. Or a stinking SCUBA mask LOL. No joke, that fire juice will burn the snot out of your eyes. I'm a professional at getting it in my eyes LOL.

slomo

Cube carbs have very fine passageways that can get blocked by evaporated fuel deposits & corrosion
Some have rubber tipped check valves that perish & stick closed
As such buying an old used one is just as big a gamble as buying an unbranded carb from a scrap metal merchant on the web.
Some carbs I have rebuilt have taken better than 5 hours in the ultrasound to get them clean and others were just not repairable.
Now 5 hours of my time is $ 300 ( Aus) and if charged out is substantially more than the whole machine is worth.
I buy carbs either from a dedicated after market mower parts company or direct from the factory / factories retail agent .

And the more times you pull one apart the more damage you do
Also the common car carb cleaners will damage rubber check valves which is why Walbro formulated their own cube carb safe brew but again a can of it cost almost what a new carb does.
Some times the only alternative is to buy the wrong carb and swap over the butterflys because the original is no longer made .

Would have been happy to buy a new carb but this carb is no longer available from Zama direct. This saw is just in such good shape I hate to thru it in the dump.

I agree with slomo and bertsmobile1. You are rolling the dice with that BeeBay carb and adding another variable. What the seller tells you and what is reality are usually 2 different things. Maybe you got lucky for $12.99, but a genuine Walbro C1 carb tested and ready to go is worth more than that given they don't make anymore and there is not drop in sub.

I'd stick to your original plan on trying to get the original carb working with a Zama carb kit. That $12.99 carb could be your backup or just return it for a refund. A lot of sellers are daring you to go through the hassle of returning, just like rebates (most never fill out the form).

Troubleshooting is the the process of eliminating variables one at a time to get to root cause. In reading the thread and advice the carb appears to be the right focus for now IMO. As a DYIer myself I know it can be frustrating, but the pro and advanced DYIer advice you get on this forum is worthy to heed. Statistics doesn't lie. As I said previously I think that tuning a saw and getting it to fire are sometimes the same thing especially for a DYIer stiff such as myself. You said you had running for 5 minutes so I think that's promising.

Hang in there you are savvy enough to get the puppy going and having fun and satisfaction doing so.

Cube carbs are basically all the same internally
Only 3 types
The big difference is the size of the venturi ( hole ) .
after that is is nothing more than how it hooks up
The good thing is most of the control shafts are the same diameter & only held in with an E clip.
Most of the butterflys are held to the shaft by a single screw so it is not a big job to swap them between carbs and I do this fairly often.
The only "trick" to it is to stake the threaded ends of the screw to stop them undoing in use and be gentle as the shafts bend easily and you can oval the hole they pass through .
And yes you can fit a carb that has a purge valve on it but you will probably find you need to use a remote purge valve and then cut a new hole in the fuel tank for the purge line .
Just remember that all the carb does is mix fuel droplets into an air stream and that ratio is the same regardless of what the fuel is going into ( around 13:1 )
All of the cube carbs have the same mounting centers so will bolt onto the engine.
The size of the venturii controls the maximum amount of fuel tat can be drawn into the engine.
A smaller venturi will make the engine easier to start , have a much sharper throttle response and may reduce the top speed
A bigger venturi will make the engine sluggish and tend to flood at low throttle openings .
Tuners have been swapping carbs on petrol engines from the very first day a petrol engine was sold.
See if you can dig up an IPL for your saw and even better from a couple of different countries
Most saws used more than one carb over their production run.
Unfortunately I have never found a Walbro-Zama-Tilotsen interchange chart but it would be a massive advantage for repairers.

Still waiting for parts but was looking on the Zama site and found a replacement carb number for the one I have C1-M2B but also listed as obsolete. So I searched that number and found one new in the UK for $59.00 plus $27.00 shipping guess that isn't going to happen as I'm not that flush with money. As soon as parts arrive I'll get back to what I have.

Give Randys a ring
HE is good at finding obsolete parts or knowing what other bits will fit .

OldDiyer said:

Still waiting for parts but was looking on the Zama site and found a replacement carb number for the one I have C1-M2B but also listed as obsolete. So I searched that number and found one new in the UK for $59.00 plus $27.00 shipping guess that isn't going to happen as I'm not that flush with money. As soon as parts arrive I'll get back to what I have.

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I fiddle my stuff and swap\modify parts here and there. As I mentioned before I have the McCul 510. While i got mine to work by rebuilding the carb(i think i got my kit from Randy...) I still have 1 quark with it that it won't idle(yes, i replaced all seals among other things).

-SO- being a hacker as i am, I am tempted to get one of these to replace the original carb... Carb It looks like the only catch is I would need to run a return fuel hose as it originally has only one fuel line. Being i believe your motor is very similar to mine, I'll post if i take the plunge and it solves my quark.

The one from the UK is identical to mine but I am not going to spend that kind of money for it.
bertsmoble1 you are correct Randy has helped we with the parts for my Mac 35 oiler system and I did get the new full carb kit from him.

Just checking in to let everyone know that all the parts showed up and I got both of the carbs cleaned and installed rebuild kits in both. I did get the original carb reinstalled on the saw but didn't have time to try running it today. Will see what happens tomorrow. Will keep you posted. If the original doesn't work I have the second one to try.

OK So here I am again, this time I would like to say ThankYou to everyone that replyed to my question. I read all the replys and just used all the information to make a judgement as to how to go about my repairs but again Thank You all. Seems like this will be my go to site for questions about my lawn stuff if needed.

So this is how and what I ended up doing. As I had posted before I did replace the gasket diaphragm kit and sprayed with carb cleaner still didn't run kind of tried but never got it to really be a runner. I ordered the full kit from Randy and also did get a whole used carb from Ebay. After getting all the parts together I went ahead and completely rebuildt my original carb. This time I also used my ultrasonic cleaner to be sure things really got cleaned out. Got time this morning to see how things worked out and with a little messing around the thing started and I got the carb adjusted somewhat in that it would run on is own, wouid accelerate to HI speed with out any falling out so let it cool down and tried it again. Started right up but did have to tweek the adjustments just a bit as I believe someone said that may happen. At this point things are good to go.

One thing I would like to say to lit others know when I set up my cleaner I used Super Clean to do the carb I did mix it with water and used a plastic bag but this stuff stained the carb instead of nice and polished looking its kind of a very dull black/brown color. Guess this isn't going to matter because its working great and is under all the covers so no one sees it.

THANK YOU !!!!!

OldDiyer said:

OK So here I am again, this time I would like to say ThankYou to everyone that replyed to my question. I read all the replys and just used all the information to make a judgement as to how to go about my repairs but again Thank You all. Seems like this will be my go to site for questions about my lawn stuff if needed.

So this is how and what I ended up doing. As I had posted before I did replace the gasket diaphragm kit and sprayed with carb cleaner still didn't run kind of tried but never got it to really be a runner. I ordered the full kit from Randy and also did get a whole used carb from Ebay. After getting all the parts together I went ahead and completely rebuildt my original carb. This time I also used my ultrasonic cleaner to be sure things really got cleaned out. Got time this morning to see how things worked out and with a little messing around the thing started and I got the carb adjusted somewhat in that it would run on is own, wouid accelerate to HI speed with out any falling out so let it cool down and tried it again. Started right up but did have to tweek the adjustments just a bit as I believe someone said that may happen. At this point things are good to go.

One thing I would like to say to lit others know when I set up my cleaner I used Super Clean to do the carb I did mix it with water and used a plastic bag but this stuff stained the carb instead of nice and polished looking its kind of a very dull black/brown color. Guess this isn't going to matter because its working great and is under all the covers so no one sees it.

THANK YOU !!!!!

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Nice job!!!