Is the Kohler Courage really that bad?

[chance123]

Re: Yes, Kholer Courage Really Is That Bad

I have a Husqvarna with a Kholer Courage. After just 77 hours of use, the motor ate it's valve.

I too have had more than one break a valve with less than 100 hours. That engine is a jinx. I can understand 1 or 2 bad ones, but what I am seeing is unacceptable!

 

[motoman]

In my vast experience of owning a total of 1 (one) ride around and contributing to this forum my ideas on overheat I will say I believe that owners of air cooled lawnmowers and tractors are always
"close to the edge." By that I mean in summer especially, and with certain of the options in place
(baggers) the air cooled heads are always close to destructive levels of heat. You are probably tired of my rants, but someone tell me why manufacturers won't put dash or bracket mounted overheat warning lights on board. Their total cost could not be more than $5-$10. However once outfitted they must talk about it in the owners manual. So the wording might be "Caution if dash light is on pull over and stop work or extreme engine damage may occur."

The typical owner might say to himself "why can't brand x build a decent motor?" The answer is brand x is just as good as brand y, but brand y decides it has a marketing advantage by not outfitting their units with a warning light, and to shift the inherent overheat characteristic to the owner. (Ref the case in this thread). If you believe consumer reports little bar charts of reliability then the brands are rather reliable. Perhaps manufacturers play the satistical game that most owners will underuse their mowers and never stress them. These units last longer on average.

What seems to creep through (as with cars) is the buffering which repair shops give the manufacturers. No criticism is intended here, however it seems that the fact that some owners may indeed allow the fan intake to become clogged with debris can be used to cover the thin margin of saftety AC units have and to blame the owner. If no manufacturers address the warning light issue then all can skate along. How many similar issues do you professionals have with properly maintained liquid cooled units? rolleyes:

 

[Ric]

In the last couple of months there has been any number of recalls on probably a dozen different mower brands from things like bad gas filters, bad seals in gas tanks and so on.
The question of this thread, Is the Kohler Courage really that bad? Now wouldn't you think that if the Kohler Courage was that bad or had the major problem that people say, that Kohler being a major player in the industry would have had a recall on the Courage to fix the problem?

 

[chance123]

The problems with this engine is not overheating. We service air cooled machines that run 10 hours a day in 100+ degrees temp working hard and under heavy loads with not even a hint of overheating. The flywheel air vanes constantly blow air around the cyl fins and the fins on the head. The Courage engine obviously is a poor design. In the past 6 months I have had 2 valves broken, 1 flywheel magnet separate from the flywheel, 6 cracked blocks, many with loose head and crankcase bolts, and 4 with broken (plastic) cam gears. Something is wrong with this picture.

 

[motoman]

In the last couple of months there has been any number of recalls on probably a dozen different mower brands from things like bad gas filters, bad seals in gas tanks and so on.
The question of this thread, Is the Kohler Courage really that bad? Now wouldn't you think that if the Kohler Courage was that bad or had the major problem that people say, that Kohler being a major player in the industry would have had a recall on the Courage to fix the problem?

But aren't recalls usually made to preserve life and limb? I could see a recall if e.g., spindle defective and blade will fly off...or bad gas lines can cause lawnmower to catch fire. Do manufacturers of lawn mowers care if they are at the bottom of the consumer reports reliability list if sales are good?

 

[Ric]

But aren't recalls usually made to preserve life and limb? I could see a recall if e.g., spindle defective and blade will fly off...or bad gas lines can cause lawnmower to catch fire. Do manufacturers of lawn mowers care if they are at the bottom of the consumer reports reliability list if sales are good?

CPSC is charged with protecting the public from unreasonable risks of injury or death associated with the use of the thousands of consumer products under the agency's jurisdiction. It is not up to the cpsc to make the call on the problems that people say they are having with the Kohler Courage engine. It's up to Kohler to make the call.

That's why I ask wouldn't you think that if the Kohler Courage was that bad or had the major problems that people say, that Kohler being a major player in the industry would have had a recall on the Courage to fix the problem? Or is this just a case of operator error or people just getting a bad engine (a lemon) now and then out of the thousands and thousands that are out there running on machines today.

 

[motoman]

The problems with this engine is not overheating. We service air cooled machines that run 10 hours a day in 100+ degrees temp working hard and under heavy loads with not even a hint of overheating. The flywheel air vanes constantly blow air around the cyl fins and the fins on the head. The Courage engine obviously is a poor design. In the past 6 months I have had 2 valves broken, 1 flywheel magnet separate from the flywheel, 6 cracked blocks, many with loose head and crankcase bolts, and 4 with broken (plastic) cam gears. Something is wrong with this picture.

You experts who see all the designs must chime in here. When you say "design" ...these things are not Porsche engines, and aren't the cylinders and heads , and sumps about the same "design?" If not please tell us how they differ. If the Chinese really copy then aren't their "designs" the same ? Perhaps it is "material" such as metal alloy that differ. Mr Chance, each time we chat you emphasize that there are no heat problems in hot So Cal, but you mention failures that could be heat failures. For the benefit of the forum please tell us the brands you have and work on , and what kinds of failures you have, so there are some facts we can digest.

A word about plastic. Yes , I am leery of the stuff in many applications. But we now have 6 lb automobile wheels in carbon fiber (?about?) to be approved by DOT. There have been water pump impellers in plastic etc etc. Bullet proof lexan windows and vests , lawn mower cooling fans etc.

There is a huge amount of knowledge in this forum. Let's start sharing the good and the bad. :smile: :thumbsup:

 

[possum]

There is no real good information as to why the Courage SV single engines have their short life. It cannot be all of them or the tractors they are installed on would be in a very large number of giant piles. There would also be a great deal more used parts for them available. So many tractors have them they must be made by now in the many hundred thousands if not millions. Just on this site there should be far more complaints one would think as well as the rest of the internet. I hear just as many complaints about the cheaper Briggs single cylinder engines on tractors but there must be alot of them that are doing all right as well or there would be more blown ones of those around as well. Not that it makes a person feel any better when he throttles up on a hot day and shoves his way through ten days worth of growth on a foxtail crabgrass patch or the same of common bermuda while the engine makes that tinny growell under load nor does it when done and the throttle goes all the way down and that ticking comes from under the hood like they do when hot. They are a great engine in so many ways. They start pretty good, love to rap out and work, have plenty of power, are easy on oil and gas, have easy to service filters, and cooling system. My dealer had perfect confidence in them until just one failed at only a few hours. Now he is worried about perhaps a bad run of them. He is concerned about getting any more tractors in with that engine. Just that one bad apple is shaking his confidence in them. It reminds me a bit of the little Tecumseh verticals that sometimes self destructed with heavy multi viscosity oils , many theories about what was going wrong but no real proof positive why some had trouble and some did not. The most interesting theory I have heard that makes sense for the cracked blocks is to much power from the single cylinder flexing the crank and putting stress on the block. The simplest one is the blocks are to thin and brittle to take the expansion and contraction of heating and cooling.

 

[maximus]

Interesting that this conversation is taking place. I am currently dealing with a 18hp Courage motor failure. I have been doing extensive research on this as well.
The engine has 130 hours on it and I take care of this tractor like it was my child. It was diagnosed with a cracked block earlier today. The case cover bolts were all loose and it is suggested by the dealer that this weakens the integrity of the block and therefore allows the block to flex and crack.
They have had several of these come in and they are just stunned that Kohler refuses to initiate a recall.
The Kohler rep they work with said they know the issue exists but feel that it would cost millions to recall and would rather fix on an as needed basis.
To say that I am angry doesn't cover it. My mower is out of warranty even though it only has 130hrs and Kohler is pulling me through the rose bushes. My 4 year old mower is now essentially a total loss as the cost of repair places me in a bad spot, probably more than the value of the unit.
I'm not letting this one go as this company is simply not dealing with any sense of ethics here.

I hope this information helps someone on this forum.

 

[motoman]

Interesting that this conversation is taking place. I am currently dealing with a 18hp Courage motor failure. I have been doing extensive research on this as well.
The engine has 130 hours on it and I take care of this tractor like it was my child. It was diagnosed with a cracked block earlier today. The case cover bolts were all loose and it is suggested by the dealer that this weakens the integrity of the block and therefore allows the block to flex and crack.
They have had several of these come in and they are just stunned that Kohler refuses to initiate a recall.
The Kohler rep they work with said they know the issue exists but feel that it would cost millions to recall and would rather fix on an as needed basis.
To say that I am angry doesn't cover it. My mower is out of warranty even though it only has 130hrs and Kohler is pulling me through the rose bushes. My 4 year old mower is now essentially a total loss as the cost of repair places me in a bad spot, probably more than the value of the unit.
I'm not letting this one go as this company is simply not dealing with any sense of ethics here.

I hope this information helps someone on this forum.

As I said before ... to be a fly on the wall of corporate damage control headquarters. Every thing is calculated as minimum loss to the company. A lot like your Kohler experience I baby equipment, always exceeding maintenance schedules. So when my shiny new Craftsman Intek 24 died with low operating hours I could not believe it. Yet voices on this forum nodded when I told them of the symptoms, and BS cheerfully sent two new heads complete to me. Their way out ( I guess ) is to abandon the Intek and let natural attrition "cure" the problem. I believe my mistake was to use the machine for its advertised purpose: mow 1-1/2 acres of grass and catch it in a 3 bag system.

There are numerous ways a formerly good product goes bad such as new sub suppliers, inadequate quality control and facility changes. Look at the ups and downs of the auto companies. Maybe the perceived satisfaction the professionals on this forum have for Japanese products is once again due to the diligence and tight QC that country still maintains. They do cost more, right?