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Is electric the way to go now?
#1
smhardesty
smhardesty
I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#2
B
Bertrrr
B
Bertrrr
Just more green agenda being shoved down our throat in my opinion ,
Doubtful any battery powered mower or other lawn equipment will hold up for very long , then they've got you over a barrel for parts etc.
Doubtful any battery powered mower or other lawn equipment will hold up for very long , then they've got you over a barrel for parts etc.
#3
StarTech
StarTech
Just moving our destruction of the Earth to other places. Looks great on the surface until you dig in and see all the extra pollution created in the mining and disposal after the batteries fail. Currently recycling the batteries costs more than the new batteries so everybody just piling them up.
If anybody even remembers the Space 1999 series. It supposedly happen that the discard waste exploded and sent out Moon out its orbit. But of right now the Russians are destroying a beautiful county called Ukraine just to make more room in their country. It now looks several nuclear bombs have gone off. Even they succeed what is left is waste dump.
And yes these battery powered equipment will hold us up on new parts or we have to just dump the machines and buy new. Sorta like our ink printers where the replacement ink cartridges cost as much as a new printer.
If anybody even remembers the Space 1999 series. It supposedly happen that the discard waste exploded and sent out Moon out its orbit. But of right now the Russians are destroying a beautiful county called Ukraine just to make more room in their country. It now looks several nuclear bombs have gone off. Even they succeed what is left is waste dump.
And yes these battery powered equipment will hold us up on new parts or we have to just dump the machines and buy new. Sorta like our ink printers where the replacement ink cartridges cost as much as a new printer.
#4
R
RayMcD
R
RayMcD
Sure, go electric (battery) just don't park it anywhere you don't want it burnt down.. Cheers, RayI've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#5
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
I will not be working on any battery powered outdoor power equipment. I am an internal combustion engine person. The gas/diesel engine built this world as we know it today. The battery powered equipment owners can get their stuff serviced and repaired at the shops that sold it.
The government and media are shoving battery power down our throats. Many people have already accepted the change, good for them. I won’t get into all the several reasons battery power will take years to really catch on. Remember, there are literally millions of pieces of gas equipment out there that will last many more years. Look forward to hearing what Bertsmobile says about this topic.
The government and media are shoving battery power down our throats. Many people have already accepted the change, good for them. I won’t get into all the several reasons battery power will take years to really catch on. Remember, there are literally millions of pieces of gas equipment out there that will last many more years. Look forward to hearing what Bertsmobile says about this topic.
#6
bkeller500
bkeller500
The challenge with a lot of the battery powered equipment is not with the equipment but more often with the batteries. I have had several battery powered tools become useless as their batteries and/or chargers died. Monitoring a couple of other forums, I have noticed this is a complaint of owners of newer snow throwers and walk behind mower models. Replacement batteries are expensive. You get a better deal when you first purchase new equipment bundled with a battery and charger. Separately purchased is another story. There is a push to comply with new government and environmental restrictions that encourage transition away from fuel powered equipment but I am not so sure they want us to know of all the new challenges they are creating. Meanwhile the consumer is going to pay more either way.
#7
R
RayMcD
R
RayMcD
What you want to bet one regimen change in the White House and much of this electric stupidity will also go away. rThe challenge with a lot of the battery powered equipment is not with the equipment but more often with the batteries. I have had several battery powered tools become useless as their batteries and/or chargers died. Monitoring a couple of other forums, I have noticed this is a complaint of owners of newer snow throwers and walk behind mower models. Replacement batteries are expensive. You get a better deal when you first purchase new equipment bundled with a battery and charger. Separately purchased is another story. There is a push to comply with new government and environmental restrictions that encourage transition away from fuel powered equipment but I am not so sure they want us to know of all the new challenges they are creating. Meanwhile the consumer is going to pay more either way.
#8
smhardesty
smhardesty
Well, it appears obvious that you guys all think the switch to EV stuff is as bad an idea as I do. I happen to be involved in an all out, full scale argument with a couple of EV lovers on Facebook. I should stay away from this type of crap on Facebook, but I see a post that just lights me up and I can't refrain from posting a comment.
All my personal OPE is of the "supposedly" antiquated, world destroying, ICE type. I will never own or even rent a battery operated car. That sounds so ridiculous when you say or think it. A battery operated car? I immediately think of a kid's toy when I say that.
Anyway, you all think that battery powered equipment is still a ways down the road from being the predominate type of OPE. That's good. I won't need to worry about stocking any and won't need to worry about learning to fix them. That is the biggest thing to me. I am scared to death of electricity. Yes, I spent 30+ years working on computers, but that is electronic and not electrical. Big difference there.
StarTech mentioned that we'll be dumping the actual battery powered pieces of OPE instead of repairing the stuff, just like printers. That couldn't be a truer statement. I advised many customers to throw away the printer I was called on to try and repair. At that time, Lexmark and HP were in a mini battle for printer superiority. You could go to your local Walmart and buy a brand new printer, with ink included, for $39 to $49. Replacement cartridges would cost a bit more than that. For me to repair what they had that went belly up would cost twice, or more what a new printer cost. Unfortunately, shortly after that time they started flooding the market with throw away computers like the eMachine. I was no longer able to compete with big computer manufacturers. Up to that point I could build a better computer for less money, but when the industry went full blown disposable, I was just out of luck.
So, we really have reached the beginning of the throw away OPE era. So damned sad. I think back to when I was growing up. Every device imaginable was repaired until it was just basically impossible to repair it anymore. That included OPE, appliances, cars, trucks tractors, etc, etc, etc. I've had a few of the cheap, Chinese lawn mowers in the shop and those things sure can't be repaired. Now, the "powers that be" want to force disposable, battery powered OPE on us. Just freaking great.
All my personal OPE is of the "supposedly" antiquated, world destroying, ICE type. I will never own or even rent a battery operated car. That sounds so ridiculous when you say or think it. A battery operated car? I immediately think of a kid's toy when I say that.
Anyway, you all think that battery powered equipment is still a ways down the road from being the predominate type of OPE. That's good. I won't need to worry about stocking any and won't need to worry about learning to fix them. That is the biggest thing to me. I am scared to death of electricity. Yes, I spent 30+ years working on computers, but that is electronic and not electrical. Big difference there.
StarTech mentioned that we'll be dumping the actual battery powered pieces of OPE instead of repairing the stuff, just like printers. That couldn't be a truer statement. I advised many customers to throw away the printer I was called on to try and repair. At that time, Lexmark and HP were in a mini battle for printer superiority. You could go to your local Walmart and buy a brand new printer, with ink included, for $39 to $49. Replacement cartridges would cost a bit more than that. For me to repair what they had that went belly up would cost twice, or more what a new printer cost. Unfortunately, shortly after that time they started flooding the market with throw away computers like the eMachine. I was no longer able to compete with big computer manufacturers. Up to that point I could build a better computer for less money, but when the industry went full blown disposable, I was just out of luck.
So, we really have reached the beginning of the throw away OPE era. So damned sad. I think back to when I was growing up. Every device imaginable was repaired until it was just basically impossible to repair it anymore. That included OPE, appliances, cars, trucks tractors, etc, etc, etc. I've had a few of the cheap, Chinese lawn mowers in the shop and those things sure can't be repaired. Now, the "powers that be" want to force disposable, battery powered OPE on us. Just freaking great.
#9
smhardesty
smhardesty
I'm betting you are 100% correct. I'll not start any political debate here, but I will simply say that our current leadership in the White House doesn't seem to have a grasp on reality. The only thing I'll use as evidence of that is the fact that they have stopped oil and natural gas exploration and new drilling in the US of A to "save the environment", but then turned right around and increased our import of crude from other countries. So, I'm guessing they think that the environment can only be destroyed by citizens of the US of A, or they think that the environment can be destroyed on one half of the planet while not affecting the other half. Brilliant thinking. LOL!What you want to bet one regimen change in the White House and much of this electric stupidity will also go away. r
#10
StarTech
StarTech
My opinion is that Washington DC is just completely filled idiot politicians of all parties. As long as they are fighting a cookie like a bunch of spoil brats we are never going get anything done by them. So I have just been ignoring them and take care business around here without them.
#11
1
1 Lucky Texan
1
1 Lucky Texan
At present, I think if most of your 'dollar-volume' is from commercial and large 'estate' machinery, I wouldn't worry too much.
As a homeowner with 9 years experience with batt-powered stuff, I can't see ever going back to gas. Doesn't mean I wouldn't switch back to ice in a heartbeat if I began having to maintain 'acreage' though.
As a homeowner with 9 years experience with batt-powered stuff, I can't see ever going back to gas. Doesn't mean I wouldn't switch back to ice in a heartbeat if I began having to maintain 'acreage' though.
#12
smhardesty
smhardesty
Oh, you are dead right. There is no way to pin all the idiotic crap on just one party. They are ALL to blame. Politicians have ZERO understanding of how the average Joe lives from day to day. None of them can relate to you and me. They just go merrily along, taking bribes, I mean lobbying money, and totally disregarding serious issues in this country. It's sad.My opinion is that Washington DC is just completely filled idiot politicians of all parties. As long as they are fighting a cookie like a bunch of spoil brats we are never going get anything done by them. So I have just been ignoring them and take care business around here without them.
#13
B
bertsmobile1
But don't go battery if you think it will do anything to abate any form of pollution other than noise pollution which really only annoys people & dogs .
Every battery device powered by a Li battery creates far more pollution than it adverts and that is before all of the "accidential" warehouse fires where the stockpiles of spent Li batteries that are uneconomic to recycle without TAXPAYERS subsidizing it spontaneously combusst , problem over + insurance profits .
B
bertsmobile1
IF you find it convienant then use battery powerOh, you are dead right. There is no way to pin all the idiotic crap on just one party. They are ALL to blame. Politicians have ZERO understanding of how the average Joe lives from day to day. None of them can relate to you and me. They just go merrily along, taking bribes, I mean lobbying money, and totally disregarding serious issues in this country. It's sad.
But don't go battery if you think it will do anything to abate any form of pollution other than noise pollution which really only annoys people & dogs .
Every battery device powered by a Li battery creates far more pollution than it adverts and that is before all of the "accidential" warehouse fires where the stockpiles of spent Li batteries that are uneconomic to recycle without TAXPAYERS subsidizing it spontaneously combusst , problem over + insurance profits .
#14
smhardesty
smhardesty
Oh, I have no intention of changing any of my OPE. I was mostly trying to get an idea of other guys are getting training in repairing the things and if anybody is going out of their way to stock battery powered stuff. Nope, I'll be using ICE equipment until I either drop dead or get to a point I can't do my own lawn work.IF you find it convienant then use battery power
But don't go battery if you think it will do anything to abate any form of pollution other than noise pollution which really only annoys people & dogs .
Every battery device powered by a Li battery creates far more pollution than it adverts and that is before all of the "accidential" warehouse fires where the stockpiles of spent Li batteries that are uneconomic to recycle without TAXPAYERS subsidizing it spontaneously combusst , problem over + insurance profits .
#15
B
Bertrrr
B
Bertrrr
Oh you can bet this Green Agenda is making lots of politicians lots of money otherwise there would be no push in that direction, There is only concern about our environment when it's profitable for them.
#16
Tiger Small Engine
When they say battery will last 5 years, in reality it is often more like 3. Then when you go to buy batteries they are expensive! Then after a period of time, the manufacturer sometimes change the battery pack so it won’t fit the older equipment.
Sidebar: Look up lithium battery mining/disposal on the internet and do some reading.
Tiger Small Engine
As a private repair shop owner, you have the option to repair or not repair any piece of equipment, period. Therefore, just like after learning about certain gas equipment that you will no longer repair (for various reasons), battery equanimity fall into this category if you do choose. When a customer buys a Kobalt, Rigid, Ryobi, Poulan, etc. battery leaf blower for example, and it takes a crap, good luck finding a shop because these are big box store brands. Kind of like your own personal protest to battery power.Oh, I have no intention of changing any of my OPE. I was mostly trying to get an idea of other guys are getting training in repairing the things and if anybody is going out of their way to stock battery powered stuff. Nope, I'll be using ICE equipment until I either drop dead or get to a point I can't do my own lawn work.
When they say battery will last 5 years, in reality it is often more like 3. Then when you go to buy batteries they are expensive! Then after a period of time, the manufacturer sometimes change the battery pack so it won’t fit the older equipment.
Sidebar: Look up lithium battery mining/disposal on the internet and do some reading.
#17
smhardesty
I'm not sure why, but I had in my mind that the new battery powered stuff wouldn't be that way. From what a few guys have told me now, it appears things are the same. Batteries don't last as long as they should. New battery prices will set you on your ear. And if the tool breaks, you toss it away and buy a new one. Nope. That's all I need to know. I'll stick to my gas powered OPE and my corded power tools.
I do have a Worx string trimmer and leaf blower I got a few years ago as a gift. The trimmer isn't too terribly bad, except that no matter what I try or do, the thing won't feed line automatically like it is supposed to do. The leaf blower is a joke. I had never used it and one day I was getting ready to mulch the leaves in the fall. My wife was outside tinkering around and she asked if I needed her to do anything. I went into the garage and grabbed the leaf blower and stuck a battery in it. I told her to just get the leaves blown out from around the house so I could mulch them. I got her started and jumped on the mower. She had only made it across the front of the house and halfway down one side and stopped. She was standing there making some hand motions that I didn't understand. I stopped the tractor and asked her what the problem was. She said the battery was dead. I thought maybe that battery wasn't fully charged so just grabbed it to put on the charger and grabbed the one that was in the charger to get the wife started again. She made it the rest of that one side and a little over halfway across the back and stopped to make those hand signals again. Sure enough, the battery was dead. I made the mistake of assuming she had been doing something wrong. We had a little tiff and she took off for the house. It wasn't until 3 weeks or so later I found out she had done nothing wrong. I ran the blower to get the leaves away from the house and I ran out of batteries quicker than she had. LOL!
I have actually read a few articles about the whole lithium mining fiasco. Every time I hear The Idiot in The White House rambling on about cleaning up the environment and doing away with ICEs and even gas cook stoves, my mind immediately goes to the problems with lithium batteries. It's not just him. It seems the world is filled with imbeciles that can't seem to understand that we are accomplishing NOTHING as far as saving the environment. I read one little article where some real genius has suggested just hauling all the defective and retired lithium batteries out to sea and dumping them. I couldn't believe what the mental midget was proposing. I guess if the crap is buried underground in some remote, obscure location like Montana, or dumped deep into our oceans, then we are somehow improving the environment. What a freaking joke. LOL!
smhardesty
Yep. I have sure noticed that. It's just like a lot of other serious matters. The politicians will only get onboard if it will make them money, or help get them re-elected. I guess being re-elected is kind of the same thing as making money. LOL!Oh you can bet this Green Agenda is making lots of politicians lots of money otherwise there would be no push in that direction, There is only concern about our environment when it's profitable for them.
I have run onto that expensive battery thing firsthand. A few years back, I bought a combination set of Porter Cable battery powered tools. It included a drill, reciprocating saw, flashlight, charger, and two batteries. Shortly after that I went ahead and purchased a circular saw to go with the rest of the stuff. Things went well for a little over 2 years and one of the batteries went down on me. I plodded along for a couple of months, then decided to go buy 2 or 3 replacement batteries. I had purchased everything from the local Lowe's so went there to buy the batteries. When I found the batteries, I just stood there for several LONG seconds. They wanted $199 for two batteries. I only paid $149 for the origianl kit and I think either $49 or $59 for the circular saw. So, they were asking as much for two batteries as I had paid for everything! I left and went home and jumped on the old computer. I searched and searched and even on eBay, two new batteries were priced at $199. I think I might have found a couple of listing for maybe $179 or $189, but it was still way too much. On a hunch, I searched for Porter Cable combination kits and found the same thing I originally bought and the kit was only $129. They aren't in the tool business. They are in the battery business. I just tossed the whole mess into the trash and went and bought new, corded tools. I had a few tools, but they were older and I wanted to be sure I had good equipment to work with if I needed to do some project. Yep, that's a ripoff businessWhen they say battery will last 5 years, in reality it is often more like 3. Then when you go to buy batteries they are expensive! Then after a period of time, the manufacturer sometimes change the battery pack so it won’t fit the older equipment.
Sidebar: Look up lithium battery mining/disposal on the internet and do some reading.
I'm not sure why, but I had in my mind that the new battery powered stuff wouldn't be that way. From what a few guys have told me now, it appears things are the same. Batteries don't last as long as they should. New battery prices will set you on your ear. And if the tool breaks, you toss it away and buy a new one. Nope. That's all I need to know. I'll stick to my gas powered OPE and my corded power tools.
I do have a Worx string trimmer and leaf blower I got a few years ago as a gift. The trimmer isn't too terribly bad, except that no matter what I try or do, the thing won't feed line automatically like it is supposed to do. The leaf blower is a joke. I had never used it and one day I was getting ready to mulch the leaves in the fall. My wife was outside tinkering around and she asked if I needed her to do anything. I went into the garage and grabbed the leaf blower and stuck a battery in it. I told her to just get the leaves blown out from around the house so I could mulch them. I got her started and jumped on the mower. She had only made it across the front of the house and halfway down one side and stopped. She was standing there making some hand motions that I didn't understand. I stopped the tractor and asked her what the problem was. She said the battery was dead. I thought maybe that battery wasn't fully charged so just grabbed it to put on the charger and grabbed the one that was in the charger to get the wife started again. She made it the rest of that one side and a little over halfway across the back and stopped to make those hand signals again. Sure enough, the battery was dead. I made the mistake of assuming she had been doing something wrong. We had a little tiff and she took off for the house. It wasn't until 3 weeks or so later I found out she had done nothing wrong. I ran the blower to get the leaves away from the house and I ran out of batteries quicker than she had. LOL!
I have actually read a few articles about the whole lithium mining fiasco. Every time I hear The Idiot in The White House rambling on about cleaning up the environment and doing away with ICEs and even gas cook stoves, my mind immediately goes to the problems with lithium batteries. It's not just him. It seems the world is filled with imbeciles that can't seem to understand that we are accomplishing NOTHING as far as saving the environment. I read one little article where some real genius has suggested just hauling all the defective and retired lithium batteries out to sea and dumping them. I couldn't believe what the mental midget was proposing. I guess if the crap is buried underground in some remote, obscure location like Montana, or dumped deep into our oceans, then we are somehow improving the environment. What a freaking joke. LOL!
#18
R
RayMcD
R
RayMcD
Hard to believe that much of this lame brain crap is not padding the pockets of our lame brain president...Oh, you are dead right. There is no way to pin all the idiotic crap on just one party. They are ALL to blame. Politicians have ZERO understanding of how the average Joe lives from day to day. None of them can relate to you and me. They just go merrily along, taking bribes, I mean lobbying money, and totally disregarding serious issues in this country. It's sad.
#19
smhardesty
smhardesty
There is just no way he isn't taking buckets full of money for some of the crap he has done. I'm not sure exactly who got to him and a lot of the Congressmen over the ceasing of oil and gas exploration and future drilling. His nonsensical actions were to stop all such things here in the US of A, but then turn right around and increase the importation of foreign crude. I guess drilling for oil in Saudi Arabia doesn't affect the environment. Kinda strange, don't you think?Hard to believe that much of this lame brain crap is not padding the pockets of our lame brain president...
#20
S
slomo
S
slomo
Haven't seen any pro yard crews running anything battery yet. That will tell you something. Those guys can tear up new anvils.
#21
Craftsman Garage
Craftsman Garage
nothing better than the old stuff
#22
Craftsman Garage
Craftsman Garage
electric tools suck, i got an electric weewhacker. cooked in 10 minutes under some thin blackberries whereas my stihl weedwhacker cuts through em like butter. and who doesn't like the sound of the engines? yeah, your neighbors, but WHO ACTUALLY CARES? california politicians, that's who.
#23
M
Muhammad
My parents have a battery powered ryobi lawn mower that I picked up for them for $99 including battery on clearance at home depot and it's perfect for their corner lot with about 8,000sq ft and maybe 2,500sq ft of grass.
The town next to mine already banned gas powered equipment so the pro crews are wearing the stihl battery backpacks for regular maintenance. I actually don't know what they do about chainsaws, maybe that's an exemption, I should look it up.
I think the battery stuff has come a long way and is quieter, no exhaust smells, etc. Definitely is sufficient for the suburban user. The downside is the cost and longevity. You're basically buying a throw away that will have at most a 10 year life. That may be fine if you pay $99 like I did, but not if you are paying $4k for a battery ztr. That doesn't fly with me.
M
Muhammad
This is where I'm at as well. Living in the suburbs, I don't want to deal with gas powered equipment although I do make an exception for my Stihl 194t chainsaw. I don't really need that much power for occasional limbing and would be totally fine with a Milwaukee fuel chainsaw 9/10 times but it's nice to have the power if I ever need it.At present, I think if most of your 'dollar-volume' is from commercial and large 'estate' machinery, I wouldn't worry too much.
As a homeowner with 9 years experience with batt-powered stuff, I can't see ever going back to gas. Doesn't mean I wouldn't switch back to ice in a heartbeat if I began having to maintain 'acreage' though.
My parents have a battery powered ryobi lawn mower that I picked up for them for $99 including battery on clearance at home depot and it's perfect for their corner lot with about 8,000sq ft and maybe 2,500sq ft of grass.
The town next to mine already banned gas powered equipment so the pro crews are wearing the stihl battery backpacks for regular maintenance. I actually don't know what they do about chainsaws, maybe that's an exemption, I should look it up.
I think the battery stuff has come a long way and is quieter, no exhaust smells, etc. Definitely is sufficient for the suburban user. The downside is the cost and longevity. You're basically buying a throw away that will have at most a 10 year life. That may be fine if you pay $99 like I did, but not if you are paying $4k for a battery ztr. That doesn't fly with me.
#24
smhardesty
smhardesty
Good point. I hadn't even thought of that, but you are 100% correct for crews in my area. I've not even a battery powered blower or trimmer. Imagine how many batteries a lawn service would have to own. LOL! They'd have to have a guy doing nothing but running batteries to the crews all day long. Also, imagine just how hard a lot of the guys on mowing crews would treat batteries. Those things would be bounced along like ping pong balls. Yep, excellent point, slomo.Haven't seen any pro yard crews running anything battery yet. That will tell you something. Those guys can tear up new anvils.
#25
smhardesty
smhardesty
You brought up California. I know they banned gas powered OPE a couple of years back. Is that ban still in effect? If so, what the hell are they doing out there for mowing crews and lawn service? Are they actually using battery powered mowers for everything? How many batteries does a crew that mows large areas of grass use? There are countless places in California that have monstrous grassed areas around their huge office buildings and factories. Are they still only using battery powered mowers on those areas? If so, just how many batteries does it take?electric tools suck, i got an electric weewhacker. cooked in 10 minutes under some thin blackberries whereas my stihl weedwhacker cuts through em like butter. and who doesn't like the sound of the engines? yeah, your neighbors, but WHO ACTUALLY CARES? california politicians, that's who.
#26
smhardesty
I have read articles and posts on other forums where guys are arguing until they're blue in the face that battery powered OPE is actually cheaper than ICE OPE because of the cost of gas and oil. They then compare the life expectancies of the two and that's when I get irritated. I have seen, time and again, statements that a gas powered lawn mower or zero turn only has a life expectancy of 7 years or, at most, 10 years. I suppose if you never did the first spec of maintenance on your mower it might not last over 7 years. I've got stuff sitting in storage, waiting on me to refurbish them, that are over 20 years old. Had these same pieces of equipment received just basic care they would still be running and serving their owner well. I did a refurb on one mower recently that was given to me at no cost because the owner said it was junk and wouldn't run. I dumped the old gas, pulled the carb, stuck it in some paint thinner, blew it out, put it back together, then finished the servicing, and it fired and purred like a kitten. The other thing I found was that the blade on the thing hadn't been removed and sharpened for a LOT of years, if ever. All that was left was a slab of metal, half the width as when it was new, with the front edge rolled and blunt. THESE are what those articles are using as evidence that ICE OPE won't last over 7 years. Irritates the crap out of me.
No, I don't think we are at the point where battery powered ANYTHING is better than the old ICE stuff, and that includes cars and trucks. Whether we like it or not, it seems U.S. government agencies are dead set on outlawing anything powered by gas, diesel, kerosene, LP, or natural gas, including cook stoves. I still can't believe they are attempting to outlaw a danged gas cook stove. WOW!
smhardesty
Bingo! These forced bans on gas powered equipment have at least two negative affects on the general public. Homeowners are forced to buy equipment with a very short life expectancy, at least when compared to gas OPE. On top of the short lifespan of the equipment, batteries have even shorter life expectancies. So, homeowners are bearing the burden of much higher costs to mow and trim their lawns. Then, it gets even worse for mowing services. Decent battery powered zero turns run AT LEAST $4,000 and most are more. Their batteries aren't lasting as long as they were advertised to last. Add in a little rough treatment by the guys employed by the mowing service and the things aren't lasting anywhere near their advertised life expectancies. That added cost HAS to be passed on to the property owner.That may be fine if you pay $99 like I did, but not if you are paying $4k for a battery ztr. That doesn't fly with me.
I have read articles and posts on other forums where guys are arguing until they're blue in the face that battery powered OPE is actually cheaper than ICE OPE because of the cost of gas and oil. They then compare the life expectancies of the two and that's when I get irritated. I have seen, time and again, statements that a gas powered lawn mower or zero turn only has a life expectancy of 7 years or, at most, 10 years. I suppose if you never did the first spec of maintenance on your mower it might not last over 7 years. I've got stuff sitting in storage, waiting on me to refurbish them, that are over 20 years old. Had these same pieces of equipment received just basic care they would still be running and serving their owner well. I did a refurb on one mower recently that was given to me at no cost because the owner said it was junk and wouldn't run. I dumped the old gas, pulled the carb, stuck it in some paint thinner, blew it out, put it back together, then finished the servicing, and it fired and purred like a kitten. The other thing I found was that the blade on the thing hadn't been removed and sharpened for a LOT of years, if ever. All that was left was a slab of metal, half the width as when it was new, with the front edge rolled and blunt. THESE are what those articles are using as evidence that ICE OPE won't last over 7 years. Irritates the crap out of me.
No, I don't think we are at the point where battery powered ANYTHING is better than the old ICE stuff, and that includes cars and trucks. Whether we like it or not, it seems U.S. government agencies are dead set on outlawing anything powered by gas, diesel, kerosene, LP, or natural gas, including cook stoves. I still can't believe they are attempting to outlaw a danged gas cook stove. WOW!
#27
Craftsman Garage
Craftsman Garage
Yup it’s still in effect until republicans finally take control, then you can use your gas mowers again.You brought up California. I know they banned gas powered OPE a couple of years back. Is that ban still in effect? If so, what the hell are they doing out there for mowing crews and lawn service? Are they actually using battery powered mowers for everything? How many batteries does a crew that mows large areas of grass use? There are countless places in California that have monstrous grassed areas around their huge office buildings and factories. Are they still only using battery powered mowers on those areas? If so, just how many batteries does it take?
#28
M
Muhammad
M
Muhammad
@smhardesty Yeah. The cost increase is going to be significant and nobody is going to pay for it other than homeowners.
I was looking at the stats and the electric mower market is already $5 billion a year, mostly walk behinds. I personally don't mind the electric walk behinds but the bigger the equipment gets or the more you use it the more expensive it will become.
The State Air Resources Board of California has until 2024 to eliminate gas-powered lawn care equipment.
If they want to buy back my Stihl 194t for full price, I'm okay with that. Anything less would be unacceptable.
I was looking at the stats and the electric mower market is already $5 billion a year, mostly walk behinds. I personally don't mind the electric walk behinds but the bigger the equipment gets or the more you use it the more expensive it will become.
You brought up California. I know they banned gas powered OPE a couple of years back. Is that ban still in effect? If so, what the hell are they doing out there for mowing crews and lawn service? Are they actually using battery powered mowers for everything? How many batteries does a crew that mows large areas of grass use? There are countless places in California that have monstrous grassed areas around their huge office buildings and factories. Are they still only using battery powered mowers on those areas? If so, just how many batteries does it take?
The State Air Resources Board of California has until 2024 to eliminate gas-powered lawn care equipment.
If they want to buy back my Stihl 194t for full price, I'm okay with that. Anything less would be unacceptable.
#29
T
Thalweg
T
Thalweg
On the bright side, all this ridiculousness seems like an opportunity for handy guys. I've been collecting old OPE that people are throwing out or selling for very little and rebuilding it. I suspect that in a few years when all that is available to the general public is the battery powered crap, the demand for this old stuff will grow precipitously. Just need to fix it while parts are still available.
#30
B
bertsmobile1
Exteriour is immaculate but he was complining it had no power
The plugs had so much soot in them you could not see the electrodes
The float had been pushed so hard againstthe carb body that the body had dents worn it it and so did the float till eventually the float wore through where it was rubbing on the body.
So a nre neelde & float, some new tyres and 15 replaced bolts and it is off for another 15 years .
What the pro battery crowd are using for the life of the mower is the length of time the engine is EPA compliant which is very short because they are jetted too lean so wear the bore faster .
B
bertsmobile1
Just finished a 15 y/o cub cadet 1000 seriesBingo! These forced bans on gas powered equipment have at least two negative affects on the general public. Homeowners are forced to buy equipment with a very short life expectancy, at least when compared to gas OPE. On top of the short lifespan of the equipment, batteries have even shorter life expectancies. So, homeowners are bearing the burden of much higher costs to mow and trim their lawns. Then, it gets even worse for mowing services. Decent battery powered zero turns run AT LEAST $4,000 and most are more. Their batteries aren't lasting as long as they were advertised to last. Add in a little rough treatment by the guys employed by the mowing service and the things aren't lasting anywhere near their advertised life expectancies. That added cost HAS to be passed on to the property owner.
I have read articles and posts on other forums where guys are arguing until they're blue in the face that battery powered OPE is actually cheaper than ICE OPE because of the cost of gas and oil. They then compare the life expectancies of the two and that's when I get irritated. I have seen, time and again, statements that a gas powered lawn mower or zero turn only has a life expectancy of 7 years or, at most, 10 years. I suppose if you never did the first spec of maintenance on your mower it might not last over 7 years. I've got stuff sitting in storage, waiting on me to refurbish them, that are over 20 years old. Had these same pieces of equipment received just basic care they would still be running and serving their owner well. I did a refurb on one mower recently that was given to me at no cost because the owner said it was junk and wouldn't run. I dumped the old gas, pulled the carb, stuck it in some paint thinner, blew it out, put it back together, then finished the servicing, and it fired and purred like a kitten. The other thing I found was that the blade on the thing hadn't been removed and sharpened for a LOT of years, if ever. All that was left was a slab of metal, half the width as when it was new, with the front edge rolled and blunt. THESE are what those articles are using as evidence that ICE OPE won't last over 7 years. Irritates the crap out of me.
No, I don't think we are at the point where battery powered ANYTHING is better than the old ICE stuff, and that includes cars and trucks. Whether we like it or not, it seems U.S. government agencies are dead set on outlawing anything powered by gas, diesel, kerosene, LP, or natural gas, including cook stoves. I still can't believe they are attempting to outlaw a danged gas cook stove. WOW!
Exteriour is immaculate but he was complining it had no power
The plugs had so much soot in them you could not see the electrodes
The float had been pushed so hard againstthe carb body that the body had dents worn it it and so did the float till eventually the float wore through where it was rubbing on the body.
So a nre neelde & float, some new tyres and 15 replaced bolts and it is off for another 15 years .
What the pro battery crowd are using for the life of the mower is the length of time the engine is EPA compliant which is very short because they are jetted too lean so wear the bore faster .
#31
A
AutoMechanic
A
AutoMechanic
My parents bought a Milwaukee weed eater. That thing was total crap and I hate to say that as I’m a Milwaukee guy at heart. It got hot very quickly too. Returned next day and I bought them a Stihl. I advised them not to buy it but they still did then they regretted it. So no electric is not the way to go. At least not yet not till they improve them to last long term. Also one big problem was the string kept getting in a bind too.
#32
smhardesty
smhardesty
That Worx trimmer I have also has a problem with the line. It refuses to feed line like it's supposed to. It is supposedly an auto advancing head, but it won't feed. I'll run it for a short bit, then have to stop and turn it upside down to get new line to feed out. It has been this way since the day it was new. I kind of like it because it's so light, which SHOULD make it a pleasure to use, but by the time I get done fliiping it upside down about a dozen times to advance line, it's like I have been wrestling a bear all afternoon. I'd have done less work if I had used a gas powered trimmer.My parents bought a Milwaukee weed eater. That thing was total crap and I hate to say that as I’m a Milwaukee guy at heart. It got hot very quickly too. Returned next day and I bought them a Stihl. I advised them not to buy it but they still did then they regretted it. So no electric is not the way to go. At least not yet not till they improve them to last long term. Also one big problem was the string kept getting in a bind too.
#33
A
AutoMechanic
A
AutoMechanic
Yeah that’s exactly what we had to do with the Milwaukee. It was definitely light but too much of a hassle and no fun maintenance lol. The Stihl I bought is a bit heavier.That Worx trimmer I have also has a problem with the line. It refuses to feed line like it's supposed to. It is supposedly an auto advancing head, but it won't feed. I'll run it for a short bit, then have to stop and turn it upside down to get new line to feed out. It has been this way since the day it was new. I kind of like it because it's so light, which SHOULD make it a pleasure to use, but by the time I get done fliiping it upside down about a dozen times to advance line, it's like I have been wrestling a bear all afternoon. I'd have done less work if I had used a gas powered trimmer.
#34
smhardesty
smhardesty
I'm thinking really hard about keeping one of these McCulloch trimmers I got hold of for myself. I bought a few from a business being liquidated. The owner's cousin is selling it all off after the owner passed away. They are all factory refurbished units, but had been setting in that guy's shop so long that all the primer bulbs and fuel lines had turned brittle as glass. The first two I have worked on just needed a little TLC and they now run perfectly. I'm still trying to get the clutch shoes cleaned up on one of them so they release like they should. I'll get it sooner or later, even if I have to tear it down and remove the clutch to clean everything up. I'm hoping the next couple don't have any problems like this, but even if they do, I got them cheaply enough to make it well worthwhile to fix them for resell. I'm thinking one of these trimmers would last me for quite a few years.Yeah that’s exactly what we had to do with the Milwaukee. It was definitely light but too much of a hassle and no fun maintenance lol. The Stihl I bought is a bit heavier.
#35
G
Gord Baker
G
Gord Baker
My Battery powered Makita Drills are always good for 0-1/2 Holes.
No thanks. Batteries cost more than a Drill! NFG.
No thanks. Batteries cost more than a Drill! NFG.
#36
smhardesty
I do have the cordless drill that came with the Worx tool kit I got. I might grab it if I've only got one or two holes to drill or maybe a half a handful of screws to drive. If it's a bigger project, I pull out one of my corded drills and get to work.
I'm waiting for somebody to bring in a gas powered blower that they don't want to spend much money on. I'll then refurb it for my own use. This Worx blower eats batteries like I eat candy. If I have allowed the leaves to get even a little stacked up around the house, I can't make it completely around the house on two batteries. I contacted them about it and we went back and forth a few times. I know there were several suggestions, but the one that REALLY got me was when they told me to be sure and turn the blower off as I come to empty spots with no leaves. No kidding. I guess they think a guy is supposed to keep flipping the thing on and off, and on and off as he walks around. They must not truly understand how a guy blows leaves away from the house. I don't know about other guys, but when I start in I'm never without leaves in front of me as I work my way around the house. Maybe I'm supposed to run out there and blow leaves every morning and every night so there are places without leaves where I can turn the thing off. Seems a little ridiculous to me. It makes more sense to get my hands on a gas powered blower so I can head out and do all the blowing of leaves I want. But, I'm just a dumb farm boy from Southern Illinois. I guess city folks do things differently than I do. LOL!
smhardesty
Yes they do! That's why I quit screwing with any and all battery powered power tools. I now have corded tools that I use in the garage. They are a one time expense that last me for years and years. I use the stuff so little it takes a whole lot of years for them to wear out. The only thing I really use with any regularity are a really old drill from Harbor Freight that I use a wire wheel on to clean blades before sharpening and balancing and also to buff all the grass and dirt from the underside of the deck if I'm going to paint and seal it, an el cheapo Hyper Tough side arm grinder to sharpen blades, and then I'll now add in the Work Shop Tool Sharpener if I work on a blade that is in pretty god shape.Batteries cost more than a Drill!
I do have the cordless drill that came with the Worx tool kit I got. I might grab it if I've only got one or two holes to drill or maybe a half a handful of screws to drive. If it's a bigger project, I pull out one of my corded drills and get to work.
I'm waiting for somebody to bring in a gas powered blower that they don't want to spend much money on. I'll then refurb it for my own use. This Worx blower eats batteries like I eat candy. If I have allowed the leaves to get even a little stacked up around the house, I can't make it completely around the house on two batteries. I contacted them about it and we went back and forth a few times. I know there were several suggestions, but the one that REALLY got me was when they told me to be sure and turn the blower off as I come to empty spots with no leaves. No kidding. I guess they think a guy is supposed to keep flipping the thing on and off, and on and off as he walks around. They must not truly understand how a guy blows leaves away from the house. I don't know about other guys, but when I start in I'm never without leaves in front of me as I work my way around the house. Maybe I'm supposed to run out there and blow leaves every morning and every night so there are places without leaves where I can turn the thing off. Seems a little ridiculous to me. It makes more sense to get my hands on a gas powered blower so I can head out and do all the blowing of leaves I want. But, I'm just a dumb farm boy from Southern Illinois. I guess city folks do things differently than I do. LOL!
#37
StarTech
StarTech
When comes to drills the battery powered Dewalt I had in the past was very good. But the charger finally gave up the ghost. And cheaper B&D drill fail rather quickly but it wasn't the batteries but was the motor brushes that failed. Not even sure I go with another Dewalt now as things are a lot cheaply made.
#38
smhardesty
On July 9th, 2022, my wife and I purchased a new freezer, cook stove, and freezer from Lowe's. The freezer was placed in the garage and was never a problem. The delivery company that Lowe's uses sent two delivery guys that refused to remove the foam and plastic protection from the stove. They literally left our home and the stove was sitting in the middle of the kitchen floor, still wrapped in the plastic and foam. They told us that only a licensed plumber could connect a gas line. Hey, I can't make stuff like this up. That was a bare faced lie. They also refused to push the refrigerator into the cubby hole where it was supposed to sit. They did plug the electric cord in, but refused to connect the water supply line for the ice maker. When I got the water connected I pushed it back into it's proper place and proceeded to level it. This was a brand new, Frigidaire fridge. There were NO leveling devices of any kind on this thing. NOTHING. And this is where we began a horrible journey.
We ended up having two different Frigidaire refrigerators delivered and neither one had any type of leveling devices on them at all. We finally agreed to pay additional money to get a Whirlpool that SUPPOSEDLY had leveling legs. The first Whirlpool showed up and it did NOT have leveling legs. What it had were two very small and very weak "anti-tip legs". We found out later that pretty much all manufacturers of refrigerators have decide to remove the leveling legs or leveling wheels from standard sized refrigerators. I wonder what idiot thought that crap up.
That wasn't the real problem. The day after the first Whirlpool showed up, we noticed ice forming in the top of the freezer compartment. The seal on the freezer door had been wrinkled somehow. I called Lowe's and they refused to deal with the problem saying that this problem was to be referred to Whirlpool. It took about a dozen calls to Whilrpool to finally get a "certified" repairman to come take a look. It took three different visits by this clod before I finally called Whirlpool and raised the devil over the clod not being able to fix the problem. They sent a different repairman and what happened next blew my mind.
This guy was a top notch repairman., He really did know his stuff, and I'm not being sarcastic. He was good. It took him less than 5 minutes to tell me we needed a whole new refrigerator. I told him that was fine. Whatever it took to get a fridge in my kitchen that could be kind of leveled and didn't leak was great. He went out to his truck to call Whirlpool and I sat down in my recliner. He wasn't gone 2 minutes and came right back in. He had a tape measure in his hand and said, "I might as well get these measurements because they are going to want to know." I was a little confused. He measured the depth of the box, not including the doors, on the top and on the bottom for both sides. I asked what he was doing and he told me what the measurements were. The fridge was 3/4" deeper on the top right than on the top left. It was 1 1/4" deeper on the bottom right than on the bottom left. No kidding! Since he said he knew they would want those measurements, I asked him just how often this kind of crap happened. He told me that he spends about half his time doing nothing more than measuring these refrigerators and ordering new ones.
Now, THINK about that for just a minute. This wasn't a fluke. This repairman and Whirlpool BOTH were aware that a whole mess of Whirlpool refrigerators were that far out of whack. It happened so often that it took one phone call and within 5 or 6 minutes of this guy calling the company they had a whole new fridge scheduled for delivery. Now, recall I said we bought the new appliances on July 9th of last year. The new fridge, with the weak little "anti-tip legs", that actually worked as it should, was delivered on January 12th. Yep, it took just over 6 months to get a refrigerator that worked in my house.
And the icing on the cake? The dip stick delivery guys that delivered the second fridge really screwed up. They parked the truck out on the street instead of backing into my drive. I'm guessing the driver had problems backing up. Then, in their infinite wisdom, they decided to roll the fridge onto the lift gate, lower it to the street, roll it out on the street, jockey it around, and THEN put it on a dolly. I didn't see them doing that or I would have stopped them. The street we live on is more like a country road. It's more of an oil and chip or cheapseal road. It was August. It was hot. The tar was bubbling up. Yep, they rolled that fridge around in the tar, then brought it into our kitchen, took it off the dolly, and began scooting and twisting it to get it over near where it could be plugged in. Just about the time they were getting close to having it where they could plug it in, I heard one of them say, "Oh, shit!" I went in the kitchen and they had covered my floor with tar. When they got done plugging the fridge in, they just left. I tried getting the tar up using Dawn, but it wasn't working. I switched to Goof Off and it worked. It took me an hour and 45 minutes to get it all up. When I was done, I sat down on the couch in the living room. The way our house is laid out, from the living room you look directly into the kitchen through a wide opening between the two rooms. When I looked across the kitchen floor, I could see every place I had used the Goof Off. I had taken photos of the tar all over the floor and I then took photos of what happened when I used the Goof Off. I ended up having to file a claim with the company that delivers for Lowe's. We ended up having to have a whole new kitchen floor put down.
So, the whole fridge thing was one, huge nightmare. 6 months, 4 refrigerators, and one kitchen floor later, everything is finally the way it SHOULD have been the first week of July, last year. Whirlpool's quality control? Completely nonexistent.
smhardesty
I think you have mentioned a common problem with products in general. Quality was once first and foremost for any product manufactured in the US of A and a few overseas countries. I can't speak for products made overseas that aren't imported to the US of A, but quality of products in the US of A has really taken a hit. Here is such an example.When comes to drills the battery powered Dewalt I had in the past was very good. But the charger finally gave up the ghost. And cheaper B&D drill fail rather quickly but it wasn't the batteries but was the motor brushes that failed. Not even sure I go with another Dewalt now as things are a lot cheaply made.
On July 9th, 2022, my wife and I purchased a new freezer, cook stove, and freezer from Lowe's. The freezer was placed in the garage and was never a problem. The delivery company that Lowe's uses sent two delivery guys that refused to remove the foam and plastic protection from the stove. They literally left our home and the stove was sitting in the middle of the kitchen floor, still wrapped in the plastic and foam. They told us that only a licensed plumber could connect a gas line. Hey, I can't make stuff like this up. That was a bare faced lie. They also refused to push the refrigerator into the cubby hole where it was supposed to sit. They did plug the electric cord in, but refused to connect the water supply line for the ice maker. When I got the water connected I pushed it back into it's proper place and proceeded to level it. This was a brand new, Frigidaire fridge. There were NO leveling devices of any kind on this thing. NOTHING. And this is where we began a horrible journey.
We ended up having two different Frigidaire refrigerators delivered and neither one had any type of leveling devices on them at all. We finally agreed to pay additional money to get a Whirlpool that SUPPOSEDLY had leveling legs. The first Whirlpool showed up and it did NOT have leveling legs. What it had were two very small and very weak "anti-tip legs". We found out later that pretty much all manufacturers of refrigerators have decide to remove the leveling legs or leveling wheels from standard sized refrigerators. I wonder what idiot thought that crap up.
That wasn't the real problem. The day after the first Whirlpool showed up, we noticed ice forming in the top of the freezer compartment. The seal on the freezer door had been wrinkled somehow. I called Lowe's and they refused to deal with the problem saying that this problem was to be referred to Whirlpool. It took about a dozen calls to Whilrpool to finally get a "certified" repairman to come take a look. It took three different visits by this clod before I finally called Whirlpool and raised the devil over the clod not being able to fix the problem. They sent a different repairman and what happened next blew my mind.
This guy was a top notch repairman., He really did know his stuff, and I'm not being sarcastic. He was good. It took him less than 5 minutes to tell me we needed a whole new refrigerator. I told him that was fine. Whatever it took to get a fridge in my kitchen that could be kind of leveled and didn't leak was great. He went out to his truck to call Whirlpool and I sat down in my recliner. He wasn't gone 2 minutes and came right back in. He had a tape measure in his hand and said, "I might as well get these measurements because they are going to want to know." I was a little confused. He measured the depth of the box, not including the doors, on the top and on the bottom for both sides. I asked what he was doing and he told me what the measurements were. The fridge was 3/4" deeper on the top right than on the top left. It was 1 1/4" deeper on the bottom right than on the bottom left. No kidding! Since he said he knew they would want those measurements, I asked him just how often this kind of crap happened. He told me that he spends about half his time doing nothing more than measuring these refrigerators and ordering new ones.
Now, THINK about that for just a minute. This wasn't a fluke. This repairman and Whirlpool BOTH were aware that a whole mess of Whirlpool refrigerators were that far out of whack. It happened so often that it took one phone call and within 5 or 6 minutes of this guy calling the company they had a whole new fridge scheduled for delivery. Now, recall I said we bought the new appliances on July 9th of last year. The new fridge, with the weak little "anti-tip legs", that actually worked as it should, was delivered on January 12th. Yep, it took just over 6 months to get a refrigerator that worked in my house.
And the icing on the cake? The dip stick delivery guys that delivered the second fridge really screwed up. They parked the truck out on the street instead of backing into my drive. I'm guessing the driver had problems backing up. Then, in their infinite wisdom, they decided to roll the fridge onto the lift gate, lower it to the street, roll it out on the street, jockey it around, and THEN put it on a dolly. I didn't see them doing that or I would have stopped them. The street we live on is more like a country road. It's more of an oil and chip or cheapseal road. It was August. It was hot. The tar was bubbling up. Yep, they rolled that fridge around in the tar, then brought it into our kitchen, took it off the dolly, and began scooting and twisting it to get it over near where it could be plugged in. Just about the time they were getting close to having it where they could plug it in, I heard one of them say, "Oh, shit!" I went in the kitchen and they had covered my floor with tar. When they got done plugging the fridge in, they just left. I tried getting the tar up using Dawn, but it wasn't working. I switched to Goof Off and it worked. It took me an hour and 45 minutes to get it all up. When I was done, I sat down on the couch in the living room. The way our house is laid out, from the living room you look directly into the kitchen through a wide opening between the two rooms. When I looked across the kitchen floor, I could see every place I had used the Goof Off. I had taken photos of the tar all over the floor and I then took photos of what happened when I used the Goof Off. I ended up having to file a claim with the company that delivers for Lowe's. We ended up having to have a whole new kitchen floor put down.
So, the whole fridge thing was one, huge nightmare. 6 months, 4 refrigerators, and one kitchen floor later, everything is finally the way it SHOULD have been the first week of July, last year. Whirlpool's quality control? Completely nonexistent.
#39
smhardesty
smhardesty
I just ran across this video a little while ago. This is the kind of thing we have all been talking about. How in the world can Lowe's, or any other big box store, continue to sell cheap, Chinese crap to the public with absolutely no way to repair the stuff? I'd hate to think just how totally ticked off I'd be if I paid $600 for a mower and two years later it's a boat anchor. This is exactly what happened with that Pulsar mower I was trying to refurbish. Cheap junk. Period.
#40
T
Thalweg
T
Thalweg
I watched this last night. I couldn't believe that all that holds the blade is a cheap plastic fan, and that a couple little plastic "nubbins" are all that keep the blade from spinning on the fan. It's the most toy-like design I've ever seen. If you read through the comments, the part number is identified through the original manufacturer (Greenworks), but, of coarse, it's out of stock.I just ran across this video a little while ago. This is the kind of thing we have all been talking about. How in the world can Lowe's, or any other big box store, continue to sell cheap, Chinese crap to the public with absolutely no way to repair the stuff? I'd hate to think just how totally ticked off I'd be if I paid $600 for a mower and two years later it's a boat anchor. This is exactly what happened with that Pulsar mower I was trying to refurbish. Cheap junk. Period.
#41
smhardesty
smhardesty
Yep, that cheap plastic fan kind of blew my mind too. I have to wonder just how easily those nubbins and tabs break off. I'm not even thinking about hitting a rock or big piece of metal. What would those plastic pieces do if you were to push it into some tall, thick, tough grass and/or weeds? Or are these mowers supposed to only be used on nice, manicured lawns with grass no tall than 3" or 4"? If that's the case, shouldn't they be required to make that info readily available to prospective customers?
#42
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
YEP
It goes back to those accountants with MBA's who run every business off spreadsheets , because they are trained that all businesses are the same and can be run identically
So some one did a survey and found out that x% of fridges are installed on a concrete slab floor which are all close enough to being level that leveling feet are no longer required.
The marketing dept worked out that "Free delivery" was a strong selling point so every one gave free delivery but no one wanted to pay for it and of course the $ Y that was charged is never more than 1/3 of the actual cost of delivery .
Because delivery drivers do not need a university degree then they are expendable and the cost of them needs to be lowered to a minimum then because their productivity is easy to measure they are being forced to do way more than they can do properly and training consists of a 2 minute run down on using the technology .
In Australia the actual take home of delivery drivers is 30% lower than it was in 1978 when you take inflation & CPI rises into consideration
Your first mistake was buying from Lowes who do the same thing with white goods manufacturers that they did to mower manufacturers and you can not keep supplying goods at a lower price every year while maintaining the same quality .
Buying white goods is like buying mowers and best done via a small shop that keeps a limited range of goods that work well because they have to fix them when they don' t work
My fridge & freezer are over 30 years old and every 10 years or so they go in for a refurb & regas .
No automatic ice maker or any fancy dancy gimmicks just a cyclic defrost fridge (NO FAN ) and a fan forced freezer
both are in the pantry & there is a bar fridge in the kitchen for the stuff we use several times a day, cold water, milk, butter, sauces , jam
This knocks a massive amount off the running cost of both and allows both the freezer & fridge to work properly
So I actually do have a continious temperature variation in the fridge thus the shelf position makes a difference .
I can keep fresh veggies including lettuce for up to a month nice & crisp because of the moist cold conditions.
The only thing that does not keep well is spinach
It goes back to those accountants with MBA's who run every business off spreadsheets , because they are trained that all businesses are the same and can be run identically
So some one did a survey and found out that x% of fridges are installed on a concrete slab floor which are all close enough to being level that leveling feet are no longer required.
The marketing dept worked out that "Free delivery" was a strong selling point so every one gave free delivery but no one wanted to pay for it and of course the $ Y that was charged is never more than 1/3 of the actual cost of delivery .
Because delivery drivers do not need a university degree then they are expendable and the cost of them needs to be lowered to a minimum then because their productivity is easy to measure they are being forced to do way more than they can do properly and training consists of a 2 minute run down on using the technology .
In Australia the actual take home of delivery drivers is 30% lower than it was in 1978 when you take inflation & CPI rises into consideration
Your first mistake was buying from Lowes who do the same thing with white goods manufacturers that they did to mower manufacturers and you can not keep supplying goods at a lower price every year while maintaining the same quality .
Buying white goods is like buying mowers and best done via a small shop that keeps a limited range of goods that work well because they have to fix them when they don' t work
My fridge & freezer are over 30 years old and every 10 years or so they go in for a refurb & regas .
No automatic ice maker or any fancy dancy gimmicks just a cyclic defrost fridge (NO FAN ) and a fan forced freezer
both are in the pantry & there is a bar fridge in the kitchen for the stuff we use several times a day, cold water, milk, butter, sauces , jam
This knocks a massive amount off the running cost of both and allows both the freezer & fridge to work properly
So I actually do have a continious temperature variation in the fridge thus the shelf position makes a difference .
I can keep fresh veggies including lettuce for up to a month nice & crisp because of the moist cold conditions.
The only thing that does not keep well is spinach
#43
B
bertsmobile1
There is a bolt that holds the blade on
The plastic pips are there as a shear pin and are necessary because if you have the motor under full power and the armature stops working then you will burn out the coils in a few seconds if the thermal cut out fails
Then the batteries can overheat & self ignite as they require a cooling air flow to dissipate the heat generated when they are discharging a high current load
So they go to great efforts at the lowest cost to avoid that happening .
Judging from the accent of the customer service operator I would speculate she was in the Phillipines in a call centre that handles "customer service " for dozens if not hundreds of different brands & types of items .
She obviously dd not have an IPL of the mower in front of her or she would have known what the proper name of the fan was.
In the 45 second gaps she probably answered 2 more calls while the computer was doing an inventory search of what parts they had in stock for that mower .
Call centre staff have to answer X calls per hour or they get fined for taking too long on calls >
"please hang on while I consult my supervisor "
is call centre speak for
"I just have to take a couple more calls or I will be under quota for this time period "
If they are only doing a small number of brands they will have a set of cards that they read from
If they are doing massive number of brands then they will have multiple screens.
What you do in these cases is write a big sign that says "this $ 600 mower is trash because you can not buy this $ 5 part
And early Saturday morning you and the mower set up near the front door.
Within minutes if you are white you will be loading the new mower into your vehicle
If you are black then you will be beaten & dragged off to jail for more beatings .
B
bertsmobile1
Err did you watch it properly ?I watched this last night. I couldn't believe that all that holds the blade is a cheap plastic fan, and that a couple little plastic "nubbins" are all that keep the blade from spinning on the fan. It's the most toy-like design I've ever seen. If you read through the comments, the part number is identified through the original manufacturer (Greenworks), but, of coarse, it's out of stock.
There is a bolt that holds the blade on
The plastic pips are there as a shear pin and are necessary because if you have the motor under full power and the armature stops working then you will burn out the coils in a few seconds if the thermal cut out fails
Then the batteries can overheat & self ignite as they require a cooling air flow to dissipate the heat generated when they are discharging a high current load
So they go to great efforts at the lowest cost to avoid that happening .
Judging from the accent of the customer service operator I would speculate she was in the Phillipines in a call centre that handles "customer service " for dozens if not hundreds of different brands & types of items .
She obviously dd not have an IPL of the mower in front of her or she would have known what the proper name of the fan was.
In the 45 second gaps she probably answered 2 more calls while the computer was doing an inventory search of what parts they had in stock for that mower .
Call centre staff have to answer X calls per hour or they get fined for taking too long on calls >
"please hang on while I consult my supervisor "
is call centre speak for
"I just have to take a couple more calls or I will be under quota for this time period "
If they are only doing a small number of brands they will have a set of cards that they read from
If they are doing massive number of brands then they will have multiple screens.
What you do in these cases is write a big sign that says "this $ 600 mower is trash because you can not buy this $ 5 part
And early Saturday morning you and the mower set up near the front door.
Within minutes if you are white you will be loading the new mower into your vehicle
If you are black then you will be beaten & dragged off to jail for more beatings .
#44
smhardesty
As for the call center, I'm betting your dead right. When I was still in the computer biz, when I'd call one of the big computer manufacturers, I ran into that a lot. I finally learned to just start telling whoever answered the phone that I wanted to speak to their supervisor. Sometimes I'd have to just completely ignore what that person was saying and insist on speaking with a supervisor. Then, when I got the supervisor on the phone, I'd have to tell them I wanted to speak to a real tech. The supervisors were nothing more than "customer service representatives" that had stayed on the job long enough to be promoted to supervisors. They weren't computer techs, for sure.
smhardesty
That's a fact. I have to shoulder that stupid mistake myself. My wife and I had been talking about getting all new appliances. We happened to be in that city for another reason and I popped up and said that we should at least run by Lowe's to see what they had. Up until that point I had been telling my wife that we should probably go to the appliance store here in the town we live in. So, nobody's fault but mine.Your first mistake was buying from Lowes
As for the call center, I'm betting your dead right. When I was still in the computer biz, when I'd call one of the big computer manufacturers, I ran into that a lot. I finally learned to just start telling whoever answered the phone that I wanted to speak to their supervisor. Sometimes I'd have to just completely ignore what that person was saying and insist on speaking with a supervisor. Then, when I got the supervisor on the phone, I'd have to tell them I wanted to speak to a real tech. The supervisors were nothing more than "customer service representatives" that had stayed on the job long enough to be promoted to supervisors. They weren't computer techs, for sure.
#45
sgkent
sgkent
all of the above is true. And sometimes you have to start the call with "do not hang up on me again or I will call your boss's boss." I used to look up staff in staff directories and have names of people to drop when they got testy with me. One time on a Fedex package that was being mishandled I offered the guy the phone number of his regional manager's boss if he didn't have it. That got his attention fast.
#46
smhardesty
smhardesty
Now, that's funny. I'll have to remember that trick. Never thought of doing preliminary work before a conversation with a trained script reader. Excellent!I offered the guy the phone number of his regional manager's boss if he didn't have it. That got his attention fast.
#47
S
stevon
S
stevon
Why have you been seeing More? Because it's happening. I'm an older guy who resisted Electric until a guy gave me an electric hedge trimmer with a long last battery. Now, I will never go back to ICE. My hearing is stuffed due to ICE and this thing is way quieter,plus it has the duration, and it's lighter. No fumes coming out of that hedge to give me a headache.I'm impressed!. I read the Forum, guys are reluctant to change. You know what happened to the dinosaurs!I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#48
S
Swarf
S
Swarf
Wait a bit is my advice. I think the battery phase we are seeing will be short-lived, especially cars. Rather like the fluorescent light bulb. Governments have woken up to the fact that it is not a sustainable or practical alternative. Small battery tools are excellent, but not for larger machinery when real power is needed.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#49
Charlie8d
Charlie8d
I am on my 3rd year with a Greenworks 60V mower. I LOVE IT ! I love it so much that I also bought a string trimmer, blower, hedge trimmer , & chainsaw, that all use the same battery. The mower is self propelled, has a steel deck, ball bearing wheels, & dual battery .I use it to cut a 1/2 acre yard. I didn't pay any more for it than I would have for a good quality gas mower. I have not done anything to it other than sharpen the blade. I will not go back to gas.
#50
J
johnboy647
J
johnboy647
I have a small electric chainsaw that I received as a Christmas present from my daughter a couple of years ago. It has held up well thus far and it is great - but for small jobs -such as trimming small limbs and cutting down small trees. I also have a battery powered blower that I got last year that has done well thus far. There are a couple of things to note. These two items do not have the power of the gas powered ones I have. The batteries also have to be recharged if you use them very much. The electric powered items are much more convenient to use. You charge the battery and simply attach it to the item and you are ready to go. No mix of oil and gas, not adjusting needed on the carb, no spark plug, no pulling rope to crank, etc. I have had battery powered screw drivers for home use for many years. They are also very handy, but as stated by other people here, if they are not used fairly regularly the batteries and/or charges die. I have a Stihl chain saw and blower that I have had many years that are still going strong-you just have to maintain them. I also have a JD X350 lawn mower that I have had for quite a while, and again you simply have to properly maintain them. I just don't see battery powered tools and implements taking over the lawn and garden industry for quite some time-unless forced to by the government.
#51
J
Jim Conley
J
Jim Conley
You are 100% correct. We have a bunch of America haters in DC. They are destroying this country one day at a time. Remember how good this country was doing under Trump? If we don't stop Biden & his clown show all of us will be living under the CCP if we already aren't. Remember when gasoline was $1.86 a gallon? The country was booming like never before under Trump. I don't care if you hate the man the numbers don't lie. The 2020 election was rigged and the Green Deal is being shoved down our throats. Sorry if this was too political.I'm betting you are 100% correct. I'll not start any political debate here, but I will simply say that our current leadership in the White House doesn't seem to have a grasp on reality. The only thing I'll use as evidence of that is the fact that they have stopped oil and natural gas exploration and new drilling in the US of A to "save the environment", but then turned right around and increased our import of crude from other countries. So, I'm guessing they think that the environment can only be destroyed by citizens of the US of A, or they think that the environment can be destroyed on one half of the planet while not affecting the other half. Brilliant thinking. LOL!
#52
R
RevB
R
RevB
Make sure you can get parts, l blade carriers, wear items. Kobalt been really bad about this.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#53
K
Keith N
K
Keith N
I bought a 58 volt AEG chainsaw last winter ... it's my primary device for getting firewood on the small semi rural acreage I live on in Australia and I haven't picked up my Stihl since. I think the technology will get there eventually and maybe they can produce a brush cutter with enough power for me ... I know they can't at the moment but I'm not asuming they can't in the near future. This progression to electric power is happening whether we approve of it or not and those who think it's a flash in the pan that will go away are mistaken in my opinion.
#54
K
k_damore
That said, I bought an Ego 18" electric chainsaw and that thing is a monster, nothing stops it, really surprised and happy with that compared to the standard 18" gas one's I've owned in the past.
The John Deere Z370R ET (electric tractor) will certainly be a topic once it's officially available, they are taking pre-orders now but they claim it can run for 2 hours on a charge. At $6,400, it should make me breakfast and make my bed but I'm eager to see one in person. You can feel good that the batteries also come with a 5 year warranty, but I can't find out how much the replacements will cost, but by then they'll be a lot cheaper.
K
k_damore
It's true that they are more harmful to the environment in their initial build due to the mining and manufacturing processes. But just like the Tesla and other EVs, they will overcome that pollution index # over time, they say a Tesla will cross that border around 50-60,000 miles. Battery technology is still too expensive for most and they hate the heat.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the i
That said, I bought an Ego 18" electric chainsaw and that thing is a monster, nothing stops it, really surprised and happy with that compared to the standard 18" gas one's I've owned in the past.
The John Deere Z370R ET (electric tractor) will certainly be a topic once it's officially available, they are taking pre-orders now but they claim it can run for 2 hours on a charge. At $6,400, it should make me breakfast and make my bed but I'm eager to see one in person. You can feel good that the batteries also come with a 5 year warranty, but I can't find out how much the replacements will cost, but by then they'll be a lot cheaper.
#55
G
Gentleman Farmer
If you’re interested in servicing, batteries and battery changing might be an opportunity.
G
Gentleman Farmer
In 2020 I bought a Ryobi 42” 100ah zero-turn electric riding lawnmower. The first year it was a beast — very fast and powerful and would go for at least 90 minutes. The second year it still cut well, but the power lasted about an hour. The third year the power would last only about 30 minutes. It has four batteries, each retailing for $250. I sold it for peanuts (it originally cost just over $4000) and bought a gas-powered model. I live in upstate New York. Only used it in the Summer. Kept it plugged-in all Winter in an unheated garage, which might have made a difference. Doesn’t matter - I won’t buy another electric mower.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
If you’re interested in servicing, batteries and battery changing might be an opportunity.
#56
K
k_damore
K
k_damore
I guess anyone looking to go electric should read the warranty's fine print. The Deere warranty for 5 years may be a game changer and maybe their Li-On batteries are bigger. Hopefully by the time you need new one's the technology will be more advanced and the auto industry keeps upgrading to newer battery technology due to size, weight and longevity.In 2020 I bought a Ryobi 42” 100ah zero-turn electric riding lawnmower. The first year it was a beast — very fast and powerful and would go for at least 90 minutes. The second year it still cut well, but the power lasted about an hour. The third year the power would last only about 30 minutes. It has four batteries, each retailing for $250. I sold it for peanuts (it originally cost just over $4000) and bought a gas-powered model. I live in upstate New York. Only used it in the Summer. Kept it plugged-in all Winter in an unheated garage, which might have made a difference. Doesn’t matter - I won’t buy another electric mower.
If you’re interested in servicing, batteries and battery changing might be an opportunity.
#57
T
tcpuccio1
T
tcpuccio1
I've been kicking around getting a new machine for the past year but have not pulled the plug i really want a durable rugged gas 21" machine to replace my nearly 20 year old that is long in the tootth.. looking around if it were to go battery powered it would more than likely be the snapper machine. really not a fan of any EV I'm a domestic car dealer technician and I can tell you first hand EV vehicles are a BAD idea and not tested long enough to be shoved down your throat! The battery technology in a small power equipment has been around longer and far more simple. I would feel a bit safer with them then an 800V vehicle battery!
#58
N
nc10
90% of the time, I use the self propelled gas mower in sloped part of the yard, the electric in the flat part w/ trees, bushes, flower beds. The EGO mower is easier to push around trees, flower beds, though I could get by with onein either area. The EGO is quieter, lighter, easier to maneuver, the only one my wife will use. If I've waited too long to mow, or I'm not patient enough to let the grass dry completely, the batteries discharge relatively quickly, and I'm better off using the gas mower, but not to the point its a significant issue. If I am hauling my mower, its the lighter, easier to pick up EGO mower every time. The EGO mower can fold up the handle and stand upright in my garage. Easy blade sharpen/replacement. If my gas can is low, I just use the electric. Don't have to worry about draining gas in winter, changing oil.
Small combustion engines lack emission controls, NOx, CO, etc a relatively more important health risk, not immediately hazardous, so easy to ignore. Drive towards GHG reductions will continue to be a global trend. Both will drive customer perception and regulations. Little doubt, market share of electric lawn equipment will keep growing.
To me, the selection of gas mowers is still greater, there are many more inexpensive gas models, they are more widely available, will be that way for a couple more years, but not much more. The market for electric mowers has also become well served by Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart, Amazon, etc over the last 5 years or so. But, I'd think any seller would want to cover the growth area of the market, ie electric.
Batteries don't seem to be coming down much, I hope that changes as the supply chain gets built out, seems a few years away. Given the share of the overall mower cost, I expect if you need to replace a battery every 5-10 years, shoppers will be comparing that option to buying a new mower with new batteries each time.
N
nc10
I purchased a 56V 20" Ego brand push mower an trimmer with 2 batteries in 2014 (at Home Depot then, now sold at Lowes), and a EGO chainsaw 2-3 years later, so I have 3 56V batteries. All still running fine. Despite good reviews, I think the trimmer is terrible, the line feed just doesn't work for me. The mower and chainsaw are quite good. Full disclosure, also have a gas powered self propelled push mower also. I had two houses for about 1.5 years in 2015/16, had a self propelled gas mower at a house with a sloped yard and the ego mower at the house with the flat yard, both ~ 3/4 acre. Was finally able to sell one house after I moved, but kept both mowers.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
90% of the time, I use the self propelled gas mower in sloped part of the yard, the electric in the flat part w/ trees, bushes, flower beds. The EGO mower is easier to push around trees, flower beds, though I could get by with onein either area. The EGO is quieter, lighter, easier to maneuver, the only one my wife will use. If I've waited too long to mow, or I'm not patient enough to let the grass dry completely, the batteries discharge relatively quickly, and I'm better off using the gas mower, but not to the point its a significant issue. If I am hauling my mower, its the lighter, easier to pick up EGO mower every time. The EGO mower can fold up the handle and stand upright in my garage. Easy blade sharpen/replacement. If my gas can is low, I just use the electric. Don't have to worry about draining gas in winter, changing oil.
Small combustion engines lack emission controls, NOx, CO, etc a relatively more important health risk, not immediately hazardous, so easy to ignore. Drive towards GHG reductions will continue to be a global trend. Both will drive customer perception and regulations. Little doubt, market share of electric lawn equipment will keep growing.
To me, the selection of gas mowers is still greater, there are many more inexpensive gas models, they are more widely available, will be that way for a couple more years, but not much more. The market for electric mowers has also become well served by Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart, Amazon, etc over the last 5 years or so. But, I'd think any seller would want to cover the growth area of the market, ie electric.
Batteries don't seem to be coming down much, I hope that changes as the supply chain gets built out, seems a few years away. Given the share of the overall mower cost, I expect if you need to replace a battery every 5-10 years, shoppers will be comparing that option to buying a new mower with new batteries each time.
#59
J
jbugj
J
jbugj
Look at it this way...you see mowers many decades old still being used that are gas. With electric, we all know manufacturers will 'obsolete' the batteries after the machines are just a few years old. Its happening with power tools. And those cheap 'replacement' batteries you get on the internet aren't worth crap. They use the lowest quality cells in those.
Bottom line, your battery powered equipment really is throw-away after not so many years.
Bottom line, your battery powered equipment really is throw-away after not so many years.
#60
N
nbpt100
All of the tool manufacturers have jumped into the ODPE battery powered arena. Just look at your battery powered tools. How much does a replacement battery cost vs. the tool itself. That is why they jumped in. The better battery powered mowers seems to be made by Toro. They know how to cut grass, mulch and bag. Not sure if Makita, etc. does.
There are no easy answers. Climate needed to be addressed earlier. We now have droughts and people are mowing less. People are putting in smaller lawns becasue of the cost to water. Gas or Battery, mowers are going to be used less and less over time and in less demand over time.
The whole waste stream issue is a totally different issue, but a real one that will need to be addressed.
It is coming, like it or not. The world is changing all the time. Weather you are paying attention to it or not.
N
nbpt100
My opinion is that Washington DC is just completely filled idiot politicians of all parties. As long as they are fighting a cookie like a bunch of spoil brats we are never going get anything done by them. So I have just been ignoring them and take care business around here without them
I believe HD has said they want to eliminate the sale of ICE mowers by a certain date. The fact is most People with smaller yards like battery powered over gas. The people on here tend to fix gas equipment and have their bias.I purchased a 56V 20" Ego brand push mower an trimmer with 2 batteries in 2014 (at Home Depot then, now sold at Lowes), and a EGO chainsaw 2-3 years later, so I have 3 56V batteries. All still running fine. Despite good reviews, I think the trimmer is terrible, the line feed just doesn't work for me. The mower and chainsaw are quite good. Full disclosure, also have a gas powered self propelled push mower also. I had two houses for about 1.5 years in 2015/16, had a self propelled gas mower at a house with a sloped yard and the ego mower at the house with the flat yard, both ~ 3/4 acre. Was finally able to sell one house after I moved, but kept both mowers.
90% of the time, I use the self propelled gas mower in sloped part of the yard, the electric in the flat part w/ trees, bushes, flower beds. The EGO mower is easier to push around trees, flower beds, though I could get by with onein either area. The EGO is quieter, lighter, easier to maneuver, the only one my wife will use. If I've waited too long to mow, or I'm not patient enough to let the grass dry completely, the batteries discharge relatively quickly, and I'm better off using the gas mower, but not to the point its a significant issue. If I am hauling my mower, its the lighter, easier to pick up EGO mower every time. The EGO mower can fold up the handle and stand upright in my garage. Easy blade sharpen/replacement. If my gas can is low, I just use the electric. Don't have to worry about draining gas in winter, changing oil.
Small combustion engines lack emission controls, NOx, CO, etc a relatively more important health risk, not immediately hazardous, so easy to ignore. Drive towards GHG reductions will continue to be a global trend. Both will drive customer perception and regulations. Little doubt, market share of electric lawn equipment will keep growing.
To me, the selection of gas mowers is still greater, there are many more inexpensive gas models, they are more widely available, will be that way for a couple more years, but not much more. The market for electric mowers has also become well served by Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart, Amazon, etc over the last 5 years or so. But, I'd think any seller would want to cover the growth area of the market, ie electric.
Batteries don't seem to be coming down much, I hope that changes as the supply chain gets built out, seems a few years away. Given the share of the overall mower cost, I expect if you need to replace a battery every 5-10 years, shoppers will be comparing that option to buying a new mower with new batteries each time.
All of the tool manufacturers have jumped into the ODPE battery powered arena. Just look at your battery powered tools. How much does a replacement battery cost vs. the tool itself. That is why they jumped in. The better battery powered mowers seems to be made by Toro. They know how to cut grass, mulch and bag. Not sure if Makita, etc. does.
There are no easy answers. Climate needed to be addressed earlier. We now have droughts and people are mowing less. People are putting in smaller lawns becasue of the cost to water. Gas or Battery, mowers are going to be used less and less over time and in less demand over time.
The whole waste stream issue is a totally different issue, but a real one that will need to be addressed.
It is coming, like it or not. The world is changing all the time. Weather you are paying attention to it or not.
#61
M
mgmine
M
mgmine
On any given day I can find an electric trimmer in the garbage or at the Good Will. Not a battery one but a plug in type. If they can't make a good plug in type why would anyone buy the less powerful battery option? I can't imagine using a snowblower that runs off a battery. Unfortunately there may not be a choice,states such as California are making small gas engines illegal.
#62
B
barny57
B
barny57
I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd The batteries the solar power the wind turbines all comes from China when you got a White House that’s in cahoots with China that’s what you get
be grateful for the info.My opinion is that Washington DC is just completely filled idiot politicians of all parties. As long as they are fighting a cookie like a bunch of spoil brats we are never going get anything done by them. So I have just been ignoring them and take care business around here without
The batteries are solar panels the wind turbines all come from China when you got a White House and his family that’s in cahoots with China that’s what you getMy opinion is that Washington DC is just completely filled idiot politicians of all parties. As long as they are fighting a cookie like a bunch of spoil brats we are never going get anything done by them. So I have just been ignoring them and take care business around here without them.
#63
N
nbpt100
There are battery factories and wind turbine factories in the USA.
N
nbpt100
Stuff being outsourced to china started to happen decades ago. The seed was planted when Nixon visited them in the 70's. All that cheap labor.The batteries are solar panels the wind turbines all come from China when you got a White House and his family that’s in cahoots with China that’s what you get
There are battery factories and wind turbine factories in the USA.
#64
S
SF_LawnWorld
S
SF_LawnWorld
We had the Hustler Fastrak to mow several acres of lawn for the last several years. We down-sized to 1 acre and bought a Ryobi Electric mower. It works very well for us, is very quiet, and is much less effort since we don't worry about gas, oil, tuneups, belts, spillages, etc. IMHO if you have a very large area to mow, and you already have other implements that require the gas, oil, etc, then gas is the better choice. If you are tending to a smaller area, particularly in a residential area, then electric is a good choice.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#65
The Maintenance Guy
The other issue is cost. Often, the cost of a new battery is nearly as much as, or more than, the cost of an entire new tool. This makes no sense to me. It's not economically efficient for the customer, and certainly not a good deal overall for environmental concerns.
The Maintenance Guy
Batteries seem to be the wave of the future, at least for now. I've been considering slowly changing my equipment over but I'm waiting for two things, first, the old equipment to wear out to the point I no longer want to, or can, repair it. Second, I would like to see some improvement in battery technology to make them last longer, both between charges and their entire life cycle. Also, I'll let "the dust settle" to weed out which manufacturers will still be around to support their products in the future. I've had a few small battery operated tools for which I was unable to find replacement batteries once the originals ran out.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
The other issue is cost. Often, the cost of a new battery is nearly as much as, or more than, the cost of an entire new tool. This makes no sense to me. It's not economically efficient for the customer, and certainly not a good deal overall for environmental concerns.
#66
L
Landngroove
L
Landngroove
Try cutting trees for firewood, limbing them, and cutting to stove length with an electric chainsaw. You will be tossing that chainsaw in the trash bin after wasting your valuable time.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#67
T
Thalweg
T
Thalweg
I'll admit that I did buy a Makita string trimmer and chain saw last year. I also have a corded Makita chainsaw that I use for cutting up logs that I drag off the mountain. I've also got two Stihl string trimmers, two Shindaiwa string trimmers, and a Stihl chain saw. But the electrics are just so darn convenient, No two-stroke mix, no wrestling with them to get them to start and I find that they have plenty of power. Just stick in a fresh battery, and I've got a shop full of Makita batteries. That's really the only reason I got them. I wouldn't have gotten the string trimmer or chain saw if I hadn't already been invested in the battery platform. For me, that's the key. Having a battery platform. I've got a bunch of old junk cordless tools with oddball batteries. They're trash as soon as the battery won't take a charge...so wasteful. I'm okay with this stuff as long as it all runs off the same batteries. I seriously doubt that I'll ever get any kind of electric mower. I've got multiple, really good ICE mowers, and I can buy them cheap and rebuild them. Besides, if the government tries to pressure us into electric, I'm going to dig in my heels and stick with ICE just because they have no business being involved with my lawn.
#68
B
biffula
B
biffula
Maybe electric is the answer for the weekend warrior ( I still have my doubts as the batteries just don't last long enough yet), but I don't see them being viable for the professional any time in the distant future. Unless we get some revolutionary new battery that will hold a charge for hours and hours under use. People are living in a pipe dream regarding electric. I'm just a weekend power equipment warrior and I can't even use electric equipment. I tried a blower and it was all but useless for my property. Just doesn't last long enough. i'm not going to shell out tons for extra batteries. I'll stick with my dino powered equipment thank you. Same goes for vehicles. I just travel too far for electric to be viable. Hybrid is about as close as I can get.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#69
M
mmoffitt
M
mmoffitt
NO!I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#70
M
mmoffitt
M
mmoffitt
Resounding NO!...I love the smell of petroleum products in the morning....actually ANY time!
Be well all!
Be well all!
#71
E
elmrfudd
E
elmrfudd
The current administration has a goal of the total destruction of the USA from within. They will push what is bad, and extinguish what is good. And that includes replacing whatever is gas powered with electric. If it was my shop, concerning electric equipment, I would tell the customer to take it back to where you bought it, or try fixing it yourself. There’s a limit to the nonsense. It is an accurate description of the evil that exists in high places. Agree or not, it’s the truth. There is only one electric vehicle I would EVER consider buying, and that vehicle has a place on the back for two sets of golf clubs! And that’s it!I'm betting you are 100% correct. I'll not start any political debate here, but I will simply say that our current leadership in the White House doesn't seem to have a grasp on reality. The only thing I'll use as evidence of that is the fact that they have stopped oil and natural gas exploration and new drilling in the US of A to "save the environment", but then turned right around and increased our import of crude from other countries. So, I'm guessing they think that the environment can only be destroyed by citizens of the US of A, or they think that the environment can be destroyed on one half of the planet while not affecting the other half. Brilliant thinking. LOL!
#72
P
patme
P
patme
Two things, I have gotten rid of all my small gas engine equipment because so many of them get so aggravating to try and start them. You talk about throw away, I have never been able to repair a string trimmer. And at 80 yrs old I just don't want to deal with gas operated trimmer, drills, leaf blowers and such. So I have gone all battery. I still use a gas lawn mower. Second, crude oil. It would seem that the US crude would help lower our gas prices but no matter where the crude oil comes from, the price seems to be controlled by opec. So, if we,
the US citizens have to pay for gas controlled by opec then why not use foreign oil instead of ours? I thought that we were self sufficient at one time but it didn't help with the prices at the pumps. Just my thinking.
the US citizens have to pay for gas controlled by opec then why not use foreign oil instead of ours? I thought that we were self sufficient at one time but it didn't help with the prices at the pumps. Just my thinking.
#73
B
biffula
No, because the brainwashing of the consumer is pushing for more electric. And the side that wants electric stupidity to go away has to win over and over. The electric side basically only has to win once. Which is pretty much why you see what you see today. The true key is to keep ridiculous and onerous climate legislation from happening for about 20 years. And this is a monumental battle. But if we can keep it from happening, the world will see that all their chicken little climate change fears were nonsense foisted on them to enact redistribution of wealth.
B
biffula
What you want to bet one regimen change in the White House and much of this electric stupidity will also go away. r
No, because the brainwashing of the consumer is pushing for more electric. And the side that wants electric stupidity to go away has to win over and over. The electric side basically only has to win once. Which is pretty much why you see what you see today. The true key is to keep ridiculous and onerous climate legislation from happening for about 20 years. And this is a monumental battle. But if we can keep it from happening, the world will see that all their chicken little climate change fears were nonsense foisted on them to enact redistribution of wealth.
#74
B
biffula
And finished off by Clinton when he normalized trade with them in the 90s
B
biffula
Stuff being outsourced to china started to happen decades ago. The seed was planted when Nixon visited them in the 70's. All that cheap labor.
There are battery factories and wind turbine factories in the USA.
And finished off by Clinton when he normalized trade with them in the 90s
#75
F
Freddie21
F
Freddie21
You guys did a fantastic job of side stepping his questions and airing your thoughts on politics. I will answer as best I can from a consumer's side as I do repairs, but not as a repair facility. The electrics offer a lot to the consumer. No gas, no oil, very quiet and light weight and virtually no maintenance other than keeping it charged and clean. I have repaired a couple and it's normal things like tires, safety switches, blades, etc. The down side is the batteries will wear out, or you'll desire a second one to allow more cutting time. As said, they are costly to purchase afterwards, but I would imagine most will purchase off line unless it's needed quickly.
One other thought, for users that are used to washing the deck underside, you can't do that with the wlk behinds, it burns out the motors. If I were a shop, I would stock everyday things like blades and a few batteries. You would have to research which machines are the most common.
One other thought, for users that are used to washing the deck underside, you can't do that with the wlk behinds, it burns out the motors. If I were a shop, I would stock everyday things like blades and a few batteries. You would have to research which machines are the most common.
#77
B
Beesnweeds
B
Beesnweeds
The latest environmental buzzword is "microplastics" thats now in are bloodstreams and all these electric power tools will only make it worse. You can be happy with electric tools but we all know the reality of where they're going to end up with their batteries in a couple years. Landfills of course, along with the billions and billions of tons of plastics from the pandemic. Most of which sadly wasn't necessary. As long as politicians keep funding universities to produce faux research papers we will be stuck with stupid environmental laws that make them rich. What ever happened to the fire retardants that are in all of us? Oh yeah, politicians cant get rich from that little problem. I have noticed that my local ford dealers are starting to get in lightnings with about 4,000 to 5,000 miles on them. Hmm.., Maybe its time for more made up stories about how the local hero saved elderly couples by plugging in his truck to their house during an outage for days.
#78
M
mmoffitt
M
mmoffitt
disagree sir...All things have a place and a time, plusses and minuses but to outright want to "ban" internal combustion engines in certain areas/ jurisdictions is ridiculous...How about a hydrogen powered mower... that would be pretty cool at about who knows how much per unit nothing political here from me ..fact and reality Fossil fuel has a lot of life in her still and Yes electric does have it's place too..Be well!You guys did a fantastic job of side stepping his questions and airing your thoughts on politics. I will answer as best I can from a consumer's side as I do repairs, but not as a repair facility. The electrics offer a lot to the consumer. No gas, no oil, very quiet and light weight and virtually no maintenance other than keeping it charged and clean. I have repaired a couple and it's normal things like tires, safety switches, blades, etc. The down side is the batteries will wear out, or you'll desire a second one to allow more cutting time. As said, they are costly to purchase afterwards, but I would imagine most will purchase off line unless it's needed quickly.
One other thought, for users that are used to washing the deck underside, you can't do that with the wlk behinds, it burns out the motors. If I were a shop, I would stock everyday things like blades and a few batteries. You would have to research which machines are the most common.
#79
C
CLStout
C
CLStout
From what I've seen, I wouldn't park one of those in my garage, let alone in a repair shop. If it catches fire, the intensity of the burn creates such a problem to extinguish. It would more than likely burn everything inside before it could be put out. I've seen both the mowers and the vehicles go up, and they are very difficult to extinguish. And as stated earlier, don't forget about the large scale damage from the mining.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#80
G
g-man57
Repair - other than battery power the mower was just a rotary blade running on a shaft and bearing. My guess is that a phone AP will be available to trouble shoot any electrical issues.
G
g-man57
My neighbor had a DeWalt battery mower - for about a month. We had to do some 'creative' engineering to the handle - to keep from pinching fingers. He kept the batteries and gave the mower away - wasn't worth much sans batteries.Just more green agenda being shoved down our throat in my opinion ,
Doubtful any battery powered mower or other lawn equipment will hold up for very long , then they've got you over a barrel for parts etc.
Repair - other than battery power the mower was just a rotary blade running on a shaft and bearing. My guess is that a phone AP will be available to trouble shoot any electrical issues.
#81
T
Tommy Mckeown
T
Tommy Mckeown
A whole forum of small engines not running correct and still wondering if people will switch? I'm going to bet most people who simply want to get yardwork done will switch. Most of these bare tools are cheap to buy. I doubt you could run a profitable business repairing them. If your cordless drill broke would you search for someone to repair it or just buy another one? Battery operated tools are here to stay. That's exactly what a saw, a blower or a mower is. A tool.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#82
B
Beesnweeds
B
Beesnweeds
Yes, love my cordless drill but they're not power tools. Nobody is going to mow 10 acres, snow blow a 200 foot driveway or cut 6 cords of wood with electric.Battery operated tools are here to stay. That's exactly what a saw, a blower or a mower is. A tool.
#83
T
Thalweg
T
Thalweg
That is an interesting point. Over the years Makita periodically has times when they promote services to send in tools that need repair and they will fix them for the cost of the parts. They've fixed the tools and never even charged me for the parts. They even covered the shipping. I wonder if that would apply to the outdoor power equipment?A whole forum of small engines not running correct and still wondering if people will switch? I'm going to bet most people who simply want to get yardwork done will switch. Most of these bare tools are cheap to buy. I doubt you could run a profitable business repairing them. If your cordless drill broke would you search for someone to repair it or just buy another one? Battery operated tools are here to stay. That's exactly what a saw, a blower or a mower is. A tool.
#84
E
echelonphoto
E
echelonphoto
I went all electric 4 years ago and NEVER looked back...really dont know why so many want to deal with smelly , finicky gas equipment. I have a 3rd acre corner property with 600 feet of curb exposure. I have been running an ego selfpropelled for 4 years without a hitch. Easier to push, no problem starting, no fumes, so strong it actually pulls me along. Battery has been fine...actually if it gave up after 4 years, I already got my moneys worth, but its stilling going strong. I use a ryobi 40 volt string trimmer to edge my 600 ft of frontage in about 10 minutes...thats 3 separate edges to total 1800 ft. I then clean up with my ryobi 40 volt hurricane blower. If I had a larger property, I would probably go with an electric rider next.
#85
E
echelonphoto
E
echelonphoto
Yeah...that Trump guy...all he does is complain about his woes.Hard to believe that much of this lame brain crap is not padding the pockets of our lame brain president...
#86
J
jshireley
J
jshireley
I have many, many, many rechargeable drills, drivers, circular saws etc I use on job sites that would beg to differ. I bet you might too if you stopped to think about it. Very durable. And... they start right up first time, every time!Just more green agenda being shoved down our throat in my opinion ,
Doubtful any battery powered mower or other lawn equipment will hold up for very long , then they've got you over a barrel for parts etc.
#87
S
sharnett
S
sharnett
There is nothing inherently wrong with electric. I personally won't miss the incessant while of weed whackers and especially leaf blowers. The sweet sound of suburbia. The problem is that the manufacturers are making the cheapest product possible in order to be able to compete with big box store IC equipment. So when the batteries die after a year, you've got a piece of junk. It doesn't have to be that way. A well made lithium battery that is properly managed (charged and discharged) can last for many years.
#88
J
jshireley
J
jshireley
Please Google "Willow Project" and then get back to us on this topic. Or don't. Learning new things is up to all of us individually.I'm betting you are 100% correct. I'll not start any political debate here, but I will simply say that our current leadership in the White House doesn't seem to have a grasp on reality. The only thing I'll use as evidence of that is the fact that they have stopped oil and natural gas exploration and new drilling in the US of A to "save the environment", but then turned right around and increased our import of crude from other countries. So, I'm guessing they think that the environment can only be destroyed by citizens of the US of A, or they think that the environment can be destroyed on one half of the planet while not affecting the other half. Brilliant thinking. LOL!
#89
J
jshireley
I have to admit, I originally signed on to this forum looking up information on a carb I was rebuilding/cleaning, but now I'm going to have to stay for the informative and entertaining posts. This is just the greatest!
J
jshireley
Just to be clear about this: you think that Space 1999 was a documentary of some kind, and that Russia invaded Ukraine because they don't have enough room in their own country. And they've already nuked Ukraine several times.Just moving our destruction of the Earth to other places. Looks great on the surface until you dig in and see all the extra pollution created in the mining and disposal after the batteries fail. Currently recycling the batteries costs more than the new batteries so everybody just piling them up.
If anybody even remembers the Space 1999 series. It supposedly happen that the discard waste exploded and sent out Moon out its orbit. But of right now the Russians are destroying a beautiful county called Ukraine just to make more room in their country. It now looks several nuclear bombs have gone off. Even they succeed what is left is waste dump.
And yes these battery powered equipment will hold us up on new parts or we have to just dump the machines and buy new. Sorta like our ink printers where the replacement ink cartridges cost as much as a new printer.
I have to admit, I originally signed on to this forum looking up information on a carb I was rebuilding/cleaning, but now I'm going to have to stay for the informative and entertaining posts. This is just the greatest!
#90
J
jshireley
J
jshireley
You should have stayed with this line. I was reading these posts out loud to my wife and started with your premise of trying to learn new things. She said "good for that guy, he wants to learn and look to the future". But then after some of the negative (and kind of ignorant if we're being honest) comments, you seem to have caved to the idiocy of anti-technology people who think that ICE tech has been around for a thousand years, and also don't seem to grasp the idea that shoving our planet full of carbon discharge might not be a growth option for our species. Bravo to the first version of you, boo to the second. Come back to the light side!I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#91
N
nc10
N
nc10
Rhetorical question, but will answer anyways....The worst offenders that tended to bioaccumulate and had tox issues are no longer produced. Most new halognated flame retardants are polymeric or compounds too large to bioaccumulate, or are reactive compounds that bond with the base polymers, and again, won't bioaccumulate. Companies are finding ways to formulate mineral based FR's in some of the more stringent applications, as they are perceived safer than some of the organic and phosphorus based flame retardants. But it takes more of the mineral FR's, which hurts the other desired properties of plastics (moisture resistance, electrical properties in electrical applications, mechanical strength, etc). Companies use more naturally flame resistant materials in some applications (notably Apple) than less expensive but flammable polymers.What ever happened to the fire retardants that are in all of us?
#92
vap0rtranz
I run a 1967 Cub Cabet 12HP gas garden tractor. I also run a 2019 Dewalt 60V LiOn push power. Both have their uses on my land.
Electric lawn stuff isn't rocket science or crap. The motors are still rotor+strator wound and that's been around since the 1900s or before. Basically bearings are the only moving parts to replace. Most don't even need their brushes replaced anymore, aka. brushless. Bearings will go bad -- that ain't hard. It took me a couple hours to dissaemble, inspect, and repair a 1956 Kirby vacuum motor. I still vacuum with it. Suction is great. The difference in lawn gear is the motors absolutely must be sealed. But who hasn't needed to repair seals and gaskets in transmission or gear boxes? Again, it ain't rocket science.
Batteries are what are giving folks grief. LiOn is the weakest link. Sure. But everyone poo-pooing on this, like on this forum, already uses LiOn. In your freakin hands man -- smartphone and laptop batteries are all LiOn. LiOn fails when people try to force them to charge fast and they overheat. There's the short life problem.
And all batteries take mining minerals. Even lead acid. Are we gonna go back to recoil start on lawn mowers?? No.
So buy good batteries. Miwaulkee? Ryobi? "E-Rider" ... WTH even makes batteries for "E-Rider". Hah. I just bought Battery Born. Made in USA. 10yr warranty. 10 years man! We never got that out of lead/AGM. I've also not had a Dewalt battery die on me. Oldest Dewalt LiOn battery I have is 8 years old now.
Finally, what repair shop actually worked on old batteries for ICE? When I have gone to a shop, the answer was always "dead battery; get a new one". (And then I go home, top off the cells with water, put it on a high voltage solar panel, it de-sulfurs, and I get another couple years out of it
So it shouldn't matter. If the repair shop really wants to repair batteries, there's shop classes that train techs on HV (high voltage) cell repair. Maybe there's money in it.
vap0rtranz
Yea that's how I read the beginning of this thread.She said "good for that guy, he wants to learn and look to the future".
Mmhmm. Herr Otto was from the late 1800s if I remember right. Plenty of folks back then thought the Black Belching Beasts of ICE were a terrible idea. Like farmers with draft ox/horse. So to hate on electric just because it's new is silly.But then after some of the negative (and kind of ignorant if we're being honest) comments, you seem to have caved to the idiocy of anti-technology people who think that ICE tech has been around for a thousand years
I run a 1967 Cub Cabet 12HP gas garden tractor. I also run a 2019 Dewalt 60V LiOn push power. Both have their uses on my land.
Electric lawn stuff isn't rocket science or crap. The motors are still rotor+strator wound and that's been around since the 1900s or before. Basically bearings are the only moving parts to replace. Most don't even need their brushes replaced anymore, aka. brushless. Bearings will go bad -- that ain't hard. It took me a couple hours to dissaemble, inspect, and repair a 1956 Kirby vacuum motor. I still vacuum with it. Suction is great. The difference in lawn gear is the motors absolutely must be sealed. But who hasn't needed to repair seals and gaskets in transmission or gear boxes? Again, it ain't rocket science.
Batteries are what are giving folks grief. LiOn is the weakest link. Sure. But everyone poo-pooing on this, like on this forum, already uses LiOn. In your freakin hands man -- smartphone and laptop batteries are all LiOn. LiOn fails when people try to force them to charge fast and they overheat. There's the short life problem.
And all batteries take mining minerals. Even lead acid. Are we gonna go back to recoil start on lawn mowers?? No.
So buy good batteries. Miwaulkee? Ryobi? "E-Rider" ... WTH even makes batteries for "E-Rider". Hah. I just bought Battery Born. Made in USA. 10yr warranty. 10 years man! We never got that out of lead/AGM. I've also not had a Dewalt battery die on me. Oldest Dewalt LiOn battery I have is 8 years old now.
Finally, what repair shop actually worked on old batteries for ICE? When I have gone to a shop, the answer was always "dead battery; get a new one". (And then I go home, top off the cells with water, put it on a high voltage solar panel, it de-sulfurs, and I get another couple years out of it
So it shouldn't matter. If the repair shop really wants to repair batteries, there's shop classes that train techs on HV (high voltage) cell repair. Maybe there's money in it.
#93
A
adam1991
That being said, Toro does a great job with battery mower. I wouldn't do the tool guys--Ryobi, etc. Or Ego. But Toro made a mower first, and made it battery electric second. They know mowers. Same with snowblowers. You wouldn't believe how well their single stage battery snowblower did for me this past winter, during that year-end stuff that dumped on us in the bitter cold. I was stunned.
A
adam1991
But the cheap Chinese internal combustion crap has been doing the same thing for many many years. No repair parts available. Disposable. Buy new.Just more green agenda being shoved down our throat in my opinion ,
Doubtful any battery powered mower or other lawn equipment will hold up for very long , then they've got you over a barrel for parts etc.
That being said, Toro does a great job with battery mower. I wouldn't do the tool guys--Ryobi, etc. Or Ego. But Toro made a mower first, and made it battery electric second. They know mowers. Same with snowblowers. You wouldn't believe how well their single stage battery snowblower did for me this past winter, during that year-end stuff that dumped on us in the bitter cold. I was stunned.
#95
A
adam1991
A
adam1991
But the homeowner who runs a mower 30 times in a season for 40 minutes each--he's the target for battery.Haven't seen any pro yard crews running anything battery yet. That will tell you something. Those guys can tear up new anvils.
#96
S
SJS
And most of it is single-use or fails after a few months and getting service, whether under guarantee or not, is time consuming/frustrating....it invariably involves a waiting period of at least a month whilst "they investigate"...only to issue a credit note and they bin the defective battery tool. (Yet more pollution.)
A lot of my criticism stems from the fact that the mining of Lithium, particularly in Africa is akin to slavery....Yet the BLM and the wokists are very quiet on the subject.
Good short video on YT regarding this disgusting state of affairs.
Then, as others have mentioned: There is the disposal problem. There is already a plague of wind turbine blades that cannot (at least, if profit is the key factor) be recycled.
Then there is the safety aspect: Electric cars are much heavier as a result of their batteries, but the cars themselves are lighter in order to extend range, the net result being the car is a death trap in a shunt.....and that's before you take into consideration the increased fire hazard: A Lithium battery fire cannot be extinguished by current car-carried extinguishers.
Even the responding firefighters will struggle bring the fire under control.
I have seen demonstrations where such burning vehicles were submerged in a tank of water: When removed days later: The fire reignited itself!
If all this seems to be the attitude of a Luddite.... I will conclude with the following:
This Headless Chicken Dash into "Clean Electric" will take decades to safely achieve and at massive cost, not just to the consumer, but also to the planet.
Also: Remember this: Every month, of every year, at least one new Coal Fired Electricity Station is opened in either China or India. Yet we are urged to "Save The Planet".
It's a crock of.......................
S
SJS
Well Sir, in the country I live in EVERTHING of this nature is made in China. ...By American Companies! (Time that was addressed, I feel)Well, it appears obvious that you guys all think the switch to EV stuff is as bad an idea as I do. I happen to be involved in an all out, full scale argument with a couple of EV lovers on Facebook. I should stay away from this type of crap on Facebook, but I see a post that just lights me up and I can't refrain from posting a comment.
All my personal OPE is of the "supposedly" antiquated, world destroying, ICE type. I will never own or even rent a battery operated car. That sounds so ridiculous when you say or think it. A battery operated car? I immediately think of a kid's toy when I say that.
Anyway, you all think that battery powered equipment is still a ways down the road from being the predominate type of OPE. That's good. I won't need to worry about stocking any and won't need to worry about learning to fix them. That is the biggest thing to me. I am scared to death of electricity. Yes, I spent 30+ years working on computers, but that is electronic and not electrical. Big difference there.
StarTech mentioned that we'll be dumping the actual battery powered pieces of OPE instead of repairing the stuff, just like printers. That couldn't be a truer statement. I advised many customers to throw away the printer I was called on to try and repair. At that time, Lexmark and HP were in a mini battle for printer superiority. You could go to your local Walmart and buy a brand new printer, with ink included, for $39 to $49. Replacement cartridges would cost a bit more than that. For me to repair what they had that went belly up would cost twice, or more what a new printer cost. Unfortunately, shortly after that time they started flooding the market with throw away computers like the eMachine. I was no longer able to compete with big computer manufacturers. Up to that point I could build a better computer for less money, but when the industry went full blown disposable, I was just out of luck.
So, we really have reached the beginning of the throw away OPE era. So damned sad. I think back to when I was growing up. Every device imaginable was repaired until it was just basically impossible to repair it anymore. That included OPE, appliances, cars, trucks tractors, etc, etc, etc. I've had a few of the cheap, Chinese lawn mowers in the shop and those things sure can't be repaired. Now, the "powers that be" want to force disposable, battery powered OPE on us. Just freaking great.
And most of it is single-use or fails after a few months and getting service, whether under guarantee or not, is time consuming/frustrating....it invariably involves a waiting period of at least a month whilst "they investigate"...only to issue a credit note and they bin the defective battery tool. (Yet more pollution.)
A lot of my criticism stems from the fact that the mining of Lithium, particularly in Africa is akin to slavery....Yet the BLM and the wokists are very quiet on the subject.
Good short video on YT regarding this disgusting state of affairs.
Then, as others have mentioned: There is the disposal problem. There is already a plague of wind turbine blades that cannot (at least, if profit is the key factor) be recycled.
Then there is the safety aspect: Electric cars are much heavier as a result of their batteries, but the cars themselves are lighter in order to extend range, the net result being the car is a death trap in a shunt.....and that's before you take into consideration the increased fire hazard: A Lithium battery fire cannot be extinguished by current car-carried extinguishers.
Even the responding firefighters will struggle bring the fire under control.
I have seen demonstrations where such burning vehicles were submerged in a tank of water: When removed days later: The fire reignited itself!
If all this seems to be the attitude of a Luddite.... I will conclude with the following:
This Headless Chicken Dash into "Clean Electric" will take decades to safely achieve and at massive cost, not just to the consumer, but also to the planet.
Also: Remember this: Every month, of every year, at least one new Coal Fired Electricity Station is opened in either China or India. Yet we are urged to "Save The Planet".
It's a crock of.......................
#97
mechanizm
mechanizm
why would anyone buy one of these overpriced piles of shiny JUNK? Oh, they'e going to save Planet Earth, I forgot... well guess what?.... the batteries require a lot of rare earth minerals that are so polluting to mine that it's not allowed in the USA. Then when the batteries get weak these mowers will be sitting in a junk yard somewhere leaching these toxic metals into the ground-water because you can't recycle these batteries nor can you separate the elements to reuse. IT'S AN ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER IN THE MAKING fueled by left-wing morons who never picked up a wrench in their lives and have no clue about anything mechanical. They're politicians who literally hire people to change their light bulbs.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#98
S
SJS
Sadly, the manufacturers you mention all sell their products here in my country: They are all made in the PRC. (& "Not Available in the USA" I'd guess.)
I suppose because USA made products would be too expensive for us! But surely.... these manufacturers could step up their game and turn that around?
S
SJS
I agree with you 100%....It is a massive con.As a private repair shop owner, you have the option to repair or not repair any piece of equipment, period. Therefore, just like after learning about certain gas equipment that you will no longer repair (for various reasons), battery equanimity fall into this category if you do choose. When a customer buys a Kobalt, Rigid, Ryobi, Poulan, etc. battery leaf blower for example, and it takes a crap, good luck finding a shop because these are big box store brands. Kind of like your own personal protest to battery power.
When they say battery will last 5 years, in reality it is often more like 3. Then when you go to buy batteries they are expensive! Then after a period of time, the manufacturer sometimes change the battery pack so it won’t fit the older equipment.
Sidebar: Look up lithium battery mining/disposal on the internet and do some reading.
Sadly, the manufacturers you mention all sell their products here in my country: They are all made in the PRC. (& "Not Available in the USA" I'd guess.)
I suppose because USA made products would be too expensive for us! But surely.... these manufacturers could step up their game and turn that around?
#99
S
SJS
Sadly, the manufacturers you mention all sell their products here in my country: They are all made in the PRC. (& "Not Available in the USA" I'd guess.)
I suppose because USA made products would be too expensive for us! But surely.... these manufacturers could step up their game and turn that around?
S
SJS
I agree with you 100%....It is a massive con.As a private repair shop owner, you have the option to repair or not repair any piece of equipment, period. Therefore, just like after learning about certain gas equipment that you will no longer repair (for various reasons), battery equanimity fall into this category if you do choose. When a customer buys a Kobalt, Rigid, Ryobi, Poulan, etc. battery leaf blower for example, and it takes a crap, good luck finding a shop because these are big box store brands. Kind of like your own personal protest to battery power.
When they say battery will last 5 years, in reality it is often more like 3. Then when you go to buy batteries they are expensive! Then after a period of time, the manufacturer sometimes change the battery pack so it won’t fit the older equipment.
Sidebar: Look up lithium battery mining/disposal on the internet and do some reading.
Sadly, the manufacturers you mention all sell their products here in my country: They are all made in the PRC. (& "Not Available in the USA" I'd guess.)
I suppose because USA made products would be too expensive for us! But surely.... these manufacturers could step up their game and turn that around?
#100
M
mmoffitt
M
mmoffitt
I think the consumer will be in for a shock when he see's how much good electric stuff costs...and how much to repair... oh It needs a battery pack ? something simple and when they see the price...they go back to gas ...they get another electric and try again....call somebody to cut the lawn...let it grow or get a couple of goats, no goats? how bout a flock of sheep noe you are probably thinking Astro turf? or just catus and rocks..It's kind of like color TV's when was the last time you saw one of those fixed....they just get a bigger BETTER more expensive one....and charge it!....oh that's for Electric mowers...they chrage them x two!...
#101
mechanizm
mechanizm
If electric mowers are a good idea, you'd see the commercial lawn services folks buying them up. I can guarantee that this won't happen.
#102
A
adam1991
Toro is a mower first, foremost, and primarily. Those guys built the mower they know how to build. Then they replaced the fuming spinny thing with a non-fuming spinny thing.
The big advantage is, they're using all the same parts and technologies they've used for decades. You want a part? Toro's got it. And the manual that comes with it, spells them all out. And you can buy the parts anywhere.
I was so impressed with my Toro battery mower, I then went and got a battery snowblower to replace my 20 year old 2 cycle unit that was getting long in the tooth.
A
adam1991
This right here. It's 100% a correct statement.The better battery powered mowers seems to be made by Toro. They know how to cut grass, mulch and bag. Not sure if Makita, etc. does.
Toro is a mower first, foremost, and primarily. Those guys built the mower they know how to build. Then they replaced the fuming spinny thing with a non-fuming spinny thing.
The big advantage is, they're using all the same parts and technologies they've used for decades. You want a part? Toro's got it. And the manual that comes with it, spells them all out. And you can buy the parts anywhere.
I was so impressed with my Toro battery mower, I then went and got a battery snowblower to replace my 20 year old 2 cycle unit that was getting long in the tooth.
#103
A
adam1991
Toro is a mower first, foremost, and primarily. Those guys built the mower they know how to build. Then they replaced the fuming spinny thing with a non-fuming spinny thing.
The big advantage is, they're using all the same parts and technologies they've used for decades. You want a part? Toro's got it. And the manual that comes with it, spells them all out. And you can buy the parts anywhere.
I was so impressed with my Toro battery mower, I then went and got a battery snowblower to replace my 20 year old 2 cycle one. Worked fantastic in heavy snow, very pleasantly surprised.
A
adam1991
This right here. It's 100% a correct statement.The better battery powered mowers seems to be made by Toro. They know how to cut grass, mulch and bag. Not sure if Makita, etc. does.
Toro is a mower first, foremost, and primarily. Those guys built the mower they know how to build. Then they replaced the fuming spinny thing with a non-fuming spinny thing.
The big advantage is, they're using all the same parts and technologies they've used for decades. You want a part? Toro's got it. And the manual that comes with it, spells them all out. And you can buy the parts anywhere.
I was so impressed with my Toro battery mower, I then went and got a battery snowblower to replace my 20 year old 2 cycle one. Worked fantastic in heavy snow, very pleasantly surprised.
#104
A
adam1991
The guy that has a small lawn but wants to keep it neat--does he have to have all the same equipment that your mythical "guy who has to mow 10 acres/snow blow a 200 foot driveway/cut 6 cords of wood" has? Or is he allowed to have entirely different equipment that meets HIS needs?
A
adam1991
Is that the only definition of who needs equipment?Yes, love my cordless drill but they're not power tools. Nobody is going to mow 10 acres, snow blow a 200 foot driveway or cut 6 cords of wood with electric.
The guy that has a small lawn but wants to keep it neat--does he have to have all the same equipment that your mythical "guy who has to mow 10 acres/snow blow a 200 foot driveway/cut 6 cords of wood" has? Or is he allowed to have entirely different equipment that meets HIS needs?
#105
W
Wheels
W
Wheels
I will bring this back to the original post.
I have a shop for 9 years now. Fixing lawn and snow along with some new sales.
I do sell a battery machine (no reason at this time as to what brand)
One major thing to think about is profit. I am lucky to get 10-15% profit on new sales. Once the machine goes out the door I usually don't see the customer too much. Unlike with fueled machines were they do need tune up and repairs.
I do repair the electric that I sell. I have heard that others that fix them only fix the machines they sell and not from big box or amazon. The moneys I get, go towards the cost of other machine I bought.
Like so many other parts of business, Amazon and big box is not good for us. Although I do fix and repair. And I do have good customer contact and support.
One other good thing to think about is that customers will trade in there machines for battery. I have done well on selling used machines.
Many people are switching to battery. It is not for everyone by any means. I will sell to what the customer needs and will always push gas on those that have that need. There are many limits to battery just know how to sell it.
Do research and find the right battery machines to sell. There are a lot of videos comparing one brand to the other.
There are many good brands, I needed to have machines for all seasons and a variety of products.
My brand may have the best lawnmowers but not the best chainsaws. You need to take the good with the bad.
Check warranties on machines and how much support there is for you. For me I found the resources to be able to learn how to fix my machines was well done.
If I had to run my business with just battery as my product line. I would not be in business. They may be different if you lived in California were that's there only choice.
I have a shop for 9 years now. Fixing lawn and snow along with some new sales.
I do sell a battery machine (no reason at this time as to what brand)
One major thing to think about is profit. I am lucky to get 10-15% profit on new sales. Once the machine goes out the door I usually don't see the customer too much. Unlike with fueled machines were they do need tune up and repairs.
I do repair the electric that I sell. I have heard that others that fix them only fix the machines they sell and not from big box or amazon. The moneys I get, go towards the cost of other machine I bought.
Like so many other parts of business, Amazon and big box is not good for us. Although I do fix and repair. And I do have good customer contact and support.
One other good thing to think about is that customers will trade in there machines for battery. I have done well on selling used machines.
Many people are switching to battery. It is not for everyone by any means. I will sell to what the customer needs and will always push gas on those that have that need. There are many limits to battery just know how to sell it.
Do research and find the right battery machines to sell. There are a lot of videos comparing one brand to the other.
There are many good brands, I needed to have machines for all seasons and a variety of products.
My brand may have the best lawnmowers but not the best chainsaws. You need to take the good with the bad.
Check warranties on machines and how much support there is for you. For me I found the resources to be able to learn how to fix my machines was well done.
If I had to run my business with just battery as my product line. I would not be in business. They may be different if you lived in California were that's there only choice.
#106
A
adam1991
Me, I'm too poor to buy cheap. Some stuff costs big money for a reason. Find it, buy once, cry once, and move on.
A
adam1991
See, that's the problem. Joe Sixpack has champagne tastes but wants to pay for a can of Bud. He's ripe for the fooling.I think the consumer will be in for a shock when he see's how much good electric stuff costs
Me, I'm too poor to buy cheap. Some stuff costs big money for a reason. Find it, buy once, cry once, and move on.
#107
T
Texas1step
T
Texas1step
Have you ever considered that the gas and oil companies are just energy companies and they are investing in. What is most profitable Electric Power?Just more green agenda being shoved down our throat in my opinion ,
Doubtful any battery powered mower or other lawn equipment will hold up for very long , then they've got you over a barrel for parts etc.
#108
T
Texas1step
T
Texas1step
Have you ever considered that the gas and oil companies are just energy companies and they are investing in. What is most profitable Electric Power?Just more green agenda being shoved down our throat in my opinion ,
Doubtful any battery powered mower or other lawn equipment will hold up for very long , then they've got you over a barrel for parts etc.
#109
T
Texas1step
T
Texas1step
Electric motors or more powerful last longer they're lighter. They cost less to produce and a battery technology is moving away from lithium into graphene Which is less polluting last longer and holds more energy.Just moving our destruction of the Earth to other places. Looks great on the surface until you dig in and see all the extra pollution created in the mining and disposal after the batteries fail. Currently recycling the batteries costs more than the new batteries so everybody just piling them up.
If anybody even remembers the Space 1999 series. It supposedly happen that the discard waste exploded and sent out Moon out its orbit. But of right now the Russians are destroying a beautiful county called Ukraine just to make more room in their country. It now looks several nuclear bombs have gone off. Even they succeed what is left is waste dump.
And yes these battery powered equipment will hold us up on new parts or we have to just dump the machines and buy new. Sorta like our ink printers where the replacement ink cartridges cost as much as a new printer.
#110
M
Muhammad
M
Muhammad
Yes, probably too political for a lawn mower forum.You are 100% correct. We have a bunch of America haters in DC. They are destroying this country one day at a time. Remember how good this country was doing under Trump? If we don't stop Biden & his clown show all of us will be living under the CCP if we already aren't. Remember when gasoline was $1.86 a gallon? The country was booming like never before under Trump. I don't care if you hate the man the numbers don't lie. The 2020 election was rigged and the Green Deal is being shoved down our throats. Sorry if this was too political.
You make a good point.A whole forum of small engines not running correct and still wondering if people will switch?
#111
V
Vntg-Gearhead
V
Vntg-Gearhead
I have a stash of old B&D 18v NiCad power tools. Sawsall, Small chain saw, small circular saw, blower, weed eater, drill, impact drill, & hand vac. NiCad sucks, weak, & drains fast. Not wanting to replace all the tools & having to deal with several different (not interchangable) battries, I looked around for LiFePo adaptors. They're out there. Chose the brand battery you want, then the adaptor for your tool.
However, I went down a different road after stumbling across LiFePo 18v that directly replaces the B&D NiCad. Same price as NiCad too. I bought 2 at first (2019). Made my tools feel turbo charged. After 1 year, 1 batt went bad. I bought 2 more (2021). Now I have 3 good batteries that will weed eat my whole yard using 2 batteries. Blower uses all 3 batteries when I do the spring blow out to mulch afterwards.
Moral of this story is you'll need to go with one brand of equipment to avoid several different style batteries. Not uncommon for some to go bad early. A lot of the electric tools are junk, some are good. So, do your research. Read negative reviews, look for similar complaints (most positive reviews are fake). Since big box hardware stores will do nothing if you get a bad one (of anything), online purchases have no more disadvantages & usually cheaper.
LiFePo issues:
For longer life, allow to cool before charging.
Fire potential has been greatly reduced w/BMS (Battery Management System). That's the electronics board you see (if you take one apart) that turns battey off to prevent over discharge and over charge. BMS has been improved over the years to avoid these issues.
Vehicles & oil:
For me, the range of electric vehicles (about 250 miles or more) is fine. In 2024 I hope to get a VW ID Buzz (as in bus) cargo w/solar panels on roof. Gas & diesel vehicles & equipment will always be available but there's a problem. Unlike normal supply & demand, reduced demand for fuel will not make it cheaper. Big oil must retain the position of the most profitable industry in the world. Opec will cut production, lowering the supply, raising prices. It's happened many times in my life & mostly when a particular political party controls the WH, making it look as if it's their fault. NO political party or President has control over gas prices. Currently the US is one of the largest producers of oil. We had to be due to Opec cutting production. Now, think of your grand & great grand or even great great grand children. They will need oil for war. Oil was a big reason we won WWII. Oil is a finite not infinite resource. Oil has been politicized heavly since 1974. Much earlier than that, titans of industry had battles with it at consumers expence since the conversion from whale oil to kerosen. Always a divisive topic (big oil wants it that way for profit). Divide & concur.
Recycling:
This issue is in it's infancy & we need honest people to work on this. China is the worlds largest recycler of batteries (possible more than all the other world combined). I'm sure it's government subsidized. Think of this, in the US, farmers get subsidized. I asked a big farmer about this. He said it's complicated but we have the cheapest food than most if not all of the world. So here is the problem of politicizing oil verses electric. Many don't want the government involved. Yet those same people will use the Eisenhower interstate system. Lots of money being made by keeping us divided. Problem = find a solution. Politicize a problem = never gets solved & many make big $ from division of the people.
However, I went down a different road after stumbling across LiFePo 18v that directly replaces the B&D NiCad. Same price as NiCad too. I bought 2 at first (2019). Made my tools feel turbo charged. After 1 year, 1 batt went bad. I bought 2 more (2021). Now I have 3 good batteries that will weed eat my whole yard using 2 batteries. Blower uses all 3 batteries when I do the spring blow out to mulch afterwards.
Moral of this story is you'll need to go with one brand of equipment to avoid several different style batteries. Not uncommon for some to go bad early. A lot of the electric tools are junk, some are good. So, do your research. Read negative reviews, look for similar complaints (most positive reviews are fake). Since big box hardware stores will do nothing if you get a bad one (of anything), online purchases have no more disadvantages & usually cheaper.
LiFePo issues:
For longer life, allow to cool before charging.
Fire potential has been greatly reduced w/BMS (Battery Management System). That's the electronics board you see (if you take one apart) that turns battey off to prevent over discharge and over charge. BMS has been improved over the years to avoid these issues.
Vehicles & oil:
For me, the range of electric vehicles (about 250 miles or more) is fine. In 2024 I hope to get a VW ID Buzz (as in bus) cargo w/solar panels on roof. Gas & diesel vehicles & equipment will always be available but there's a problem. Unlike normal supply & demand, reduced demand for fuel will not make it cheaper. Big oil must retain the position of the most profitable industry in the world. Opec will cut production, lowering the supply, raising prices. It's happened many times in my life & mostly when a particular political party controls the WH, making it look as if it's their fault. NO political party or President has control over gas prices. Currently the US is one of the largest producers of oil. We had to be due to Opec cutting production. Now, think of your grand & great grand or even great great grand children. They will need oil for war. Oil was a big reason we won WWII. Oil is a finite not infinite resource. Oil has been politicized heavly since 1974. Much earlier than that, titans of industry had battles with it at consumers expence since the conversion from whale oil to kerosen. Always a divisive topic (big oil wants it that way for profit). Divide & concur.
Recycling:
This issue is in it's infancy & we need honest people to work on this. China is the worlds largest recycler of batteries (possible more than all the other world combined). I'm sure it's government subsidized. Think of this, in the US, farmers get subsidized. I asked a big farmer about this. He said it's complicated but we have the cheapest food than most if not all of the world. So here is the problem of politicizing oil verses electric. Many don't want the government involved. Yet those same people will use the Eisenhower interstate system. Lots of money being made by keeping us divided. Problem = find a solution. Politicize a problem = never gets solved & many make big $ from division of the people.
#112
L
laurin800
L
laurin800
Not that my opinion means much, but I’m a gas guy too. Although I’ve boughten 25 small engine carbs in the last year. Ty for the additives that eat rubber… as for Ukraine, it’s long been known that they were extremely corrupt, and our #1 and his son dealt directly with them earlier. I don’t think I’ll go along with the medias portrayal of Putin. I mean the media has always been 100% spot on honest with us I know. I have heard Putin say that he would never let his country turn into a California though, so there’s that. Our leaders drive to tear up our country for lithium is almost comical and buying fuel from lesser green countries is a joke too. Oh, btw, I don’t like battery equipment because of the environmental impact. Sorry, got sidetracked.My opinion is that Washington DC is just completely filled idiot politicians of all parties. As long as they are fighting a cookie like a bunch of spoil brats we are never going get anything done by them. So I have just been ignoring them and take care business around here without them.
#113
mechanizm
www.instituteforenergyresearch.org
mechanizm
too little too late... anyone who buys an EV of any type is ignoring THIS:Electric motors or more powerful last longer they're lighter. They cost less to produce and a battery technology is moving away from lithium into graphene Which is less polluting last longer and holds more energy.
The Environmental Impact of Lithium Batteries
During the Obama-Biden administration, hydraulic fracturing was accused of causing a number of environmental problems—faucets on fire, contamination of drinking…
www.instituteforenergyresearch.org
#114
mechanizm
mechanizm
Tommy Mckeown said:
A whole forum of small engines not running correct and still wondering if people will switch?
the vast majority of the problems are minor fuel deliver issues. I can guarantee that my old JD L120 will outlive all of these overpriced electric mowers. when that ELT catches fire in your garage charging overnight don't blame me, blame yourself for falling for this Global Warming BS.
A whole forum of small engines not running correct and still wondering if people will switch?
the vast majority of the problems are minor fuel deliver issues. I can guarantee that my old JD L120 will outlive all of these overpriced electric mowers. when that ELT catches fire in your garage charging overnight don't blame me, blame yourself for falling for this Global Warming BS.
#115
D
dad7432
D
dad7432
Like it or not, a running ICE is both powerful and powerfully polluting. Like it or not, mining for batteries wrecks the physical environment and creates tons of other pollution. Both have huge issues.
I expect that electric is better for hand tools and mowers used by small urban or suburban landowners. ICE is and will remain, for quite a while, the choice for commercial operators and managers and owners of large plots.
I own a pole saw and a small chain saw that are plug in electric. I own some 12 volt electric Milwaukee hand power tools. All of my other outdoor power equipment is gas. A 20 year old large chain saw, a 25 year old rider mower, and a brand new Craftsman self propelled 22 inch mower are all gas. I can't see replacing either of the mowers with battery power. The battery powered electric units are expensive, but built cheap. I suspect that manufacturers are chasing a price point, but are faced with an expensive battery, so are cheapening out on everything that goes into the equipment itself.... hence the plastic blade/clutch bracket shown in one of the videos on this thread. No thanks.
I expect that electric is better for hand tools and mowers used by small urban or suburban landowners. ICE is and will remain, for quite a while, the choice for commercial operators and managers and owners of large plots.
I own a pole saw and a small chain saw that are plug in electric. I own some 12 volt electric Milwaukee hand power tools. All of my other outdoor power equipment is gas. A 20 year old large chain saw, a 25 year old rider mower, and a brand new Craftsman self propelled 22 inch mower are all gas. I can't see replacing either of the mowers with battery power. The battery powered electric units are expensive, but built cheap. I suspect that manufacturers are chasing a price point, but are faced with an expensive battery, so are cheapening out on everything that goes into the equipment itself.... hence the plastic blade/clutch bracket shown in one of the videos on this thread. No thanks.
#116
smhardesty
smhardesty
You have stated facts, for certain. I'm neither Republican nor Democrat, but I can see a huge difference in this country now versus when Trump was in office. My retirement dollars don't go anywhere near as far now as when he was in office. You're right. Hate the man or love him, this country was better then than now. And there isn't anyone anywhere that can dispute that. The one thing I have really noticed is that there just aren't any posts on Facebook or any forum I visit about what a great job Biden is doing. None. So, where are all those Democrats that were telling the whole world how great the man was and what a great job he would do if elected? There seems to be a definite shortage of those folks out there. Don't get me wrong. I'm no Trump fan. He never delivered on his promises regarding gun laws in this country. He campaigned on that, but fell WAY short of his supposed commitments. But, yeah, this country is hurting a LOT right now.You are 100% correct. We have a bunch of America haters in DC. They are destroying this country one day at a time. Remember how good this country was doing under Trump? If we don't stop Biden & his clown show all of us will be living under the CCP if we already aren't. Remember when gasoline was $1.86 a gallon? The country was booming like never before under Trump. I don't care if you hate the man the numbers don't lie. The 2020 election was rigged and the Green Deal is being shoved down our throats. Sorry if this was too political.
#117
smhardesty
smhardesty
I've seen similar statements about how deadly the fumes produced by an ICE are. Other than someone intentionally committing suicide, and other than idiots that don't work in a well ventilated area, I have never seen any reports of consumers or small engine repair guys dying from the fumes. Have I just missed all those reports of death? I have worked on ICEs of some sorts all my life. I have zero health issues as a result. Was I just lucky?Small combustion engines lack emission controls, NOx, CO, etc a relatively more important health risk, not immediately hazardous, so easy to ignore.
#118
T
TobyU
T
TobyU
As of now, it's not the best idea or most convenient for most people to go with battery powered equipment.
There are several reasons for this but most of it boils down to the battery technology, capacity, and lifespan just isn't there and it's not where it should be especially for 2023.
To be honest with you there's not a whole lot of difference in the battery technology for this type of equipment and for things like cordless drills etc then there was in the late 80s and early nineties.
Some people may disagree but...they are wrong. Lol
You could take a high quality Milwaukee or Makita drill from back then and compare it to your new latest and greatest lithium ion drill and about the only difference will be size and weight which for most people is not really a concern.
Some of the new ones are built and designed so weirdly that they won't even stand up on the their base upright like the old ones have done for decades.
The high qualities would drive hundreds of screws into deck wood or two before is ETC and had plenty of power and many of those are still being used today even though they're on there multiple sets of replacement batteries whereas the new ones end up having stripped out clutches and gears inside etc.
So they really haven't improved much and especially not where battery technology needs to be for 2023.
Hey, that's a rhyme.
The problem with battery is most people can't actually cut their lawn on One battery or one charge.
I guess it depends on where most of these people live because with smaller lots then sure you can pull it off but in a lot of areas around this country where lots are well over 1/3 acre and even at a half an acre you just can't do it unless you're simply walking the mower around the land and not really cutting grass.
The marketing is very deceptive and so is the specifications for these mowers. When they say cuts up to 1.2 acres or whatever it says or it says 20 minutes run time or 45 minutes run time, the problem is this is sometimes with the self-propelled feature off on a walk behind mower and it is always under ideal conditions of flat ground and barely trimming like under an inch off of the grass and certainly with grass that barely looks like it needs to be cut.
If you use one of these mowers for an overgrown lawn like many people have done with gasoline mowers where they only cut it every 10 to 20 days then you won't get over 15 minutes or so from one of these mowers and it will also look terrible because they bog down so much and don't even have much inertia from there wimpy light blades.
Now, some of the traditional gasoline more manufacturers are starting to build a more that looks just like their standard mowers and has a very similar if not the same blade and all they have done is put an electric motor in place of the gasoline engine and that's an improvement versus these narrower plastic battery powered mowers with a very thin light duty and lightweight blade.
Now the big problem previously was that the battery riders were extremely overpriced! But now they're solving that problem because they're just raising the prices on the gasoline ones to exorbitant crazy levels!
I predicted this last year and I'm seeing it come true. The Cub cadet 42 inch mower at Home Depot I believe was 4,400 but it was some crazy amount whereas the gasoline one earlier that season and the end of the season before was 1588 or 1799 depending on engines and stuff like that.
So now these gasoline mowers which are the exact same mower for all intents and purposes they were the year before with some of them being the exact same mowers that were just rolled in in September and then rolled back out in March are now $3,000 or something like that and it's ridiculous.
Early on you were paying a premium to be a pioneer for a battery mower as they were five and six hundred dollars when the gasoline option was 249 to 349.
Then all of a sudden a season or two ago I saw them flip those prices and they had lowered the price of the battery mowers and raise the prices of the gasoline so all these manufacturers are going to do is messing around different ways and use one to subsidize the other and eventually the prices will meet probably in the middle or the industry will be so against gasoline that they will charge an actual premium on those which is obviously just a penalty premium to deter sales of them and just steer people in the direction of battery mowers.
It just blows back to the problem now that whether you love them or hate them because there are some pluses and minuses of each, the problem is for most people a battery powered mower and battery battery powered equipment is too much of a sacrifice.
You sacrifice too much use time and too much power.
Then top it off with the battery life span is not very good and the replacement battery prices are quite amazingly High currently
But the air conditioning us to expect to put big money into everything or a large percentage of the price because it's not like you can buy a lawn mower today and that engine is going to last 20 plus years like the old ones. You're lucky to get 8 or 10 years out of these new ones with their stupid plastic camshaft and stuff like that and they want you to have to buy a new one or put $250 into repair on a $450 lawn mower which is absurd.
So it doesn't make it sound so bad to spend $149 for One battery and 199 for the more capacity one. I was literally at Menards last week and they had three batteries available for their line of outdoor power equipment . They all three were overpriced but the highest amp hour capacity was 199.
$200 for a battery for anything is a rip-off but especially something that's probably only going to get you two to three years at best and the capacity won't be very good the last third of that lifespan.
As we go further into the future and they continue to contaminate and use up lithium and stuff like that I'm sure they'll be price premiums and penalties involved in these prices and batteries could be even more expensive..
It's simply a solution for a non problem!
It's fine to have little cheap ones like blowers and string trimmers for people who like the events of just sticking the battery on and going out and doing a quick trim or blow but if you need something for over 12 to 15 minutes you're pretty much out of luck and then you're switching batteries and all of that.
But it's nice not to have to pull the rope and start one because they never got smart enough to make them easier to start despite three different attempts I can think of none of which panned out very well.
Unfortunately those of us who like the one and done theory of buying something good quality and never having to buy another one is probably a thing of the past but the problem is they haven't lowered the price to make up for it so at the end of 30 or 40 years you still spent the same amount per year of ownership.
Most people in this world and most entities actually want us to spend more money and they want it to be more expensive to live even if you are lucky enough to get more money, have more money, earn more money etc. They don't care even if they give it to you, they just want you to spend more because more is always better in their eyes.
There are several reasons for this but most of it boils down to the battery technology, capacity, and lifespan just isn't there and it's not where it should be especially for 2023.
To be honest with you there's not a whole lot of difference in the battery technology for this type of equipment and for things like cordless drills etc then there was in the late 80s and early nineties.
Some people may disagree but...they are wrong. Lol
You could take a high quality Milwaukee or Makita drill from back then and compare it to your new latest and greatest lithium ion drill and about the only difference will be size and weight which for most people is not really a concern.
Some of the new ones are built and designed so weirdly that they won't even stand up on the their base upright like the old ones have done for decades.
The high qualities would drive hundreds of screws into deck wood or two before is ETC and had plenty of power and many of those are still being used today even though they're on there multiple sets of replacement batteries whereas the new ones end up having stripped out clutches and gears inside etc.
So they really haven't improved much and especially not where battery technology needs to be for 2023.
Hey, that's a rhyme.
The problem with battery is most people can't actually cut their lawn on One battery or one charge.
I guess it depends on where most of these people live because with smaller lots then sure you can pull it off but in a lot of areas around this country where lots are well over 1/3 acre and even at a half an acre you just can't do it unless you're simply walking the mower around the land and not really cutting grass.
The marketing is very deceptive and so is the specifications for these mowers. When they say cuts up to 1.2 acres or whatever it says or it says 20 minutes run time or 45 minutes run time, the problem is this is sometimes with the self-propelled feature off on a walk behind mower and it is always under ideal conditions of flat ground and barely trimming like under an inch off of the grass and certainly with grass that barely looks like it needs to be cut.
If you use one of these mowers for an overgrown lawn like many people have done with gasoline mowers where they only cut it every 10 to 20 days then you won't get over 15 minutes or so from one of these mowers and it will also look terrible because they bog down so much and don't even have much inertia from there wimpy light blades.
Now, some of the traditional gasoline more manufacturers are starting to build a more that looks just like their standard mowers and has a very similar if not the same blade and all they have done is put an electric motor in place of the gasoline engine and that's an improvement versus these narrower plastic battery powered mowers with a very thin light duty and lightweight blade.
Now the big problem previously was that the battery riders were extremely overpriced! But now they're solving that problem because they're just raising the prices on the gasoline ones to exorbitant crazy levels!
I predicted this last year and I'm seeing it come true. The Cub cadet 42 inch mower at Home Depot I believe was 4,400 but it was some crazy amount whereas the gasoline one earlier that season and the end of the season before was 1588 or 1799 depending on engines and stuff like that.
So now these gasoline mowers which are the exact same mower for all intents and purposes they were the year before with some of them being the exact same mowers that were just rolled in in September and then rolled back out in March are now $3,000 or something like that and it's ridiculous.
Early on you were paying a premium to be a pioneer for a battery mower as they were five and six hundred dollars when the gasoline option was 249 to 349.
Then all of a sudden a season or two ago I saw them flip those prices and they had lowered the price of the battery mowers and raise the prices of the gasoline so all these manufacturers are going to do is messing around different ways and use one to subsidize the other and eventually the prices will meet probably in the middle or the industry will be so against gasoline that they will charge an actual premium on those which is obviously just a penalty premium to deter sales of them and just steer people in the direction of battery mowers.
It just blows back to the problem now that whether you love them or hate them because there are some pluses and minuses of each, the problem is for most people a battery powered mower and battery battery powered equipment is too much of a sacrifice.
You sacrifice too much use time and too much power.
Then top it off with the battery life span is not very good and the replacement battery prices are quite amazingly High currently
But the air conditioning us to expect to put big money into everything or a large percentage of the price because it's not like you can buy a lawn mower today and that engine is going to last 20 plus years like the old ones. You're lucky to get 8 or 10 years out of these new ones with their stupid plastic camshaft and stuff like that and they want you to have to buy a new one or put $250 into repair on a $450 lawn mower which is absurd.
So it doesn't make it sound so bad to spend $149 for One battery and 199 for the more capacity one. I was literally at Menards last week and they had three batteries available for their line of outdoor power equipment . They all three were overpriced but the highest amp hour capacity was 199.
$200 for a battery for anything is a rip-off but especially something that's probably only going to get you two to three years at best and the capacity won't be very good the last third of that lifespan.
As we go further into the future and they continue to contaminate and use up lithium and stuff like that I'm sure they'll be price premiums and penalties involved in these prices and batteries could be even more expensive..
It's simply a solution for a non problem!
It's fine to have little cheap ones like blowers and string trimmers for people who like the events of just sticking the battery on and going out and doing a quick trim or blow but if you need something for over 12 to 15 minutes you're pretty much out of luck and then you're switching batteries and all of that.
But it's nice not to have to pull the rope and start one because they never got smart enough to make them easier to start despite three different attempts I can think of none of which panned out very well.
Unfortunately those of us who like the one and done theory of buying something good quality and never having to buy another one is probably a thing of the past but the problem is they haven't lowered the price to make up for it so at the end of 30 or 40 years you still spent the same amount per year of ownership.
Most people in this world and most entities actually want us to spend more money and they want it to be more expensive to live even if you are lucky enough to get more money, have more money, earn more money etc. They don't care even if they give it to you, they just want you to spend more because more is always better in their eyes.
#119
T
TobyU
One big problem is they're actually driving the nails into their own coffin by making poor quality equipment like you mentioned.
They make these things not very durable and they don't do their best to make them easy to start and keep doing it so it certainly leads people towards battery powered equipment because all you have to do is stick the battery in it and pull the trigger the problem though is still a sacrifice in other areas..
What you gain in one area, you lose in another. It's super quick convenient and easy to blow the grass off your sidewalk but if you're not done in 12 to 15 minutes it becomes quite a hassle whereas once you start that gasoline one you can pretty much go all day without ever turning it off.
Yes, you can put gas in them with them running as many people have done over the years but if you have a good one that's designed properly and everything else like many from the past, you just turn them off fill them up and one little quick pull they're back up and idling to speed again.
You can use a blower like that or a string trimmer for hours which is something you just can't do with battery.
The same goes for mowers too.
So, basically, the cheapness of the industry and the penny pinches from The Bean counters has just helped to further destroy the industry and even help the evolution to battery..
I tell my customers all the time that mowers and outdoor power equipment is on a downward spiral to junk.
T
TobyU
For a long time the gasoline equipment manufacturers stayed far far away from battery but then they eventually saw the demand so most of them have gotten into them too.Yes, probably too political for a lawn mower forum.
You make a good point.
One big problem is they're actually driving the nails into their own coffin by making poor quality equipment like you mentioned.
They make these things not very durable and they don't do their best to make them easy to start and keep doing it so it certainly leads people towards battery powered equipment because all you have to do is stick the battery in it and pull the trigger the problem though is still a sacrifice in other areas..
What you gain in one area, you lose in another. It's super quick convenient and easy to blow the grass off your sidewalk but if you're not done in 12 to 15 minutes it becomes quite a hassle whereas once you start that gasoline one you can pretty much go all day without ever turning it off.
Yes, you can put gas in them with them running as many people have done over the years but if you have a good one that's designed properly and everything else like many from the past, you just turn them off fill them up and one little quick pull they're back up and idling to speed again.
You can use a blower like that or a string trimmer for hours which is something you just can't do with battery.
The same goes for mowers too.
So, basically, the cheapness of the industry and the penny pinches from The Bean counters has just helped to further destroy the industry and even help the evolution to battery..
I tell my customers all the time that mowers and outdoor power equipment is on a downward spiral to junk.
#120
K
KBeitz
K
KBeitz
Ok... Let me stirr the pot.... Most of the people here that's against the electric stuff has no idea....
You are not doing your research.... Electric going to win....
I'll start by saying that I have over 50 gas tractors and I love them.
But I also have electric. I love them even more.
Lets talk about batteries. Do your research... Look up Solid state batteries . No joke....
These batteries are made from sodium and sand. No hurting the environment here.
Battery was tested in a car and went from the east coast of USA to the west coast 3 times on one charge. I could tell you a lot about this battery but I'll just let you all do your own research.
Some here say when the electric stuff gets old it will be junk. My 1972 Wheelhorse electric tractor is still working great. I have family that just bought a Tesla car. They drove from Florida to Pa on one charge.
I just bought a Fucare Ebike and I got 160 miles on it so far and it's working great. Costing me
8 cents to ride 40 miles with me not helping pedal. I have bothe an electric chainsaw and a weed eater.
Both working great. Let me say I do hate all lithium batteries. Time bombs I call them. But when this
Solid state battery hits the market watch out. Just look how far electric fork lift trucks have come.
You are not doing your research.... Electric going to win....
I'll start by saying that I have over 50 gas tractors and I love them.
But I also have electric. I love them even more.
Lets talk about batteries. Do your research... Look up Solid state batteries . No joke....
These batteries are made from sodium and sand. No hurting the environment here.
Battery was tested in a car and went from the east coast of USA to the west coast 3 times on one charge. I could tell you a lot about this battery but I'll just let you all do your own research.
Some here say when the electric stuff gets old it will be junk. My 1972 Wheelhorse electric tractor is still working great. I have family that just bought a Tesla car. They drove from Florida to Pa on one charge.
I just bought a Fucare Ebike and I got 160 miles on it so far and it's working great. Costing me
8 cents to ride 40 miles with me not helping pedal. I have bothe an electric chainsaw and a weed eater.
Both working great. Let me say I do hate all lithium batteries. Time bombs I call them. But when this
Solid state battery hits the market watch out. Just look how far electric fork lift trucks have come.
#121
C
choocoo johnson
C
choocoo johnson
BOTH have advantages. Locomotives are powered by electric traction motors because electric motors can generate more torque. Locomotives get the electrical power generation to the electric traction motor from 4500 hp diesel engines. In essence, these are hybrids, and have been for over SEVENTY years and counting. Both types of power are needed for pulling the amount tonnage the railroads needed. The latest locos carry 5300 gallons of diesel fuel to generate the electricity to drive these monstrous electrical motors which move and astronomical number and amount of supplies across the country, from consumer goods to raw materials, to large artillery, and even large air and space elements. The railroad still is a very efficient means of bulk transportation.
Today's electric motors are much improved - my model trains are running digital compared to my old ones in the 1960's, 70's and can run much smoother due to nanotechnology and improved windings. Again, the engines still need a source of electrification to drive the motors. The issue today is finding a good, effective, reliable energy sources to produce electrification. We take for granted the number of capacitors (over 700 in your cell phone), which is commonly used to store short bursts of electricity. Your car radio clock and radio settings store all information and time using capacitors when the engine is off, as do many electrical and electronic devices we use everyday. Same for your pc to store data in memory while your pc is not in use or asleep when not plugged up and the battery runs down (or more importantly). Capacitors have improved, and these are always in high demand worldwide to the point where even before the pandemic supply was very tight, and everyone wants more fancy appliances everywhere in the home for washing, sweeping, lighting, doorbells, and trickling down to lawn care products, using bluetooth. Commercially, I don't see contractors using electrical tethered tools as much as I used to, opting for the battery versions for which brushless motors have added battery life, improved torque, and even reduced weight significantly. The Saturn EV1 in the 1990's, while with its mere range of 75 miles with conventional batteries, was still a beast to drive with its high torque motors. These dedicated electric vehicles with electric motors and tranny's need fewer parts compared to conventional gas/diesels. I have been driving electric golf carts for at least 50 years with no issues.
Bottom line - I love both electric motors and diesel engines, but I want quick, simpler sources to drive the electrics. At the same time, I want the benefit of fewer, simpler things to work on (not a Tier 4 EPA gasper with a multitude of electronics and valves manipulating fuel/air/exhaust input/output). I am not even discussing the political side of it - not going there - only comparing the benefits and downsides of each energy/drive based on where we are at today. Life is tough.
Today's electric motors are much improved - my model trains are running digital compared to my old ones in the 1960's, 70's and can run much smoother due to nanotechnology and improved windings. Again, the engines still need a source of electrification to drive the motors. The issue today is finding a good, effective, reliable energy sources to produce electrification. We take for granted the number of capacitors (over 700 in your cell phone), which is commonly used to store short bursts of electricity. Your car radio clock and radio settings store all information and time using capacitors when the engine is off, as do many electrical and electronic devices we use everyday. Same for your pc to store data in memory while your pc is not in use or asleep when not plugged up and the battery runs down (or more importantly). Capacitors have improved, and these are always in high demand worldwide to the point where even before the pandemic supply was very tight, and everyone wants more fancy appliances everywhere in the home for washing, sweeping, lighting, doorbells, and trickling down to lawn care products, using bluetooth. Commercially, I don't see contractors using electrical tethered tools as much as I used to, opting for the battery versions for which brushless motors have added battery life, improved torque, and even reduced weight significantly. The Saturn EV1 in the 1990's, while with its mere range of 75 miles with conventional batteries, was still a beast to drive with its high torque motors. These dedicated electric vehicles with electric motors and tranny's need fewer parts compared to conventional gas/diesels. I have been driving electric golf carts for at least 50 years with no issues.
Bottom line - I love both electric motors and diesel engines, but I want quick, simpler sources to drive the electrics. At the same time, I want the benefit of fewer, simpler things to work on (not a Tier 4 EPA gasper with a multitude of electronics and valves manipulating fuel/air/exhaust input/output). I am not even discussing the political side of it - not going there - only comparing the benefits and downsides of each energy/drive based on where we are at today. Life is tough.
#122
smhardesty
smhardesty
You have stated facts, for certain. I'm neither Republican nor Democrat, but I can see a huge difference in this country now versus when Trump was in office. My retirement dollars don't go anywhere near as far now as when he was in office. You're right. Hate the man or love him, this country was better then than now. And there isn't anyone anywhere that can dispute that. The one thing I have really noticed is that there just aren't any posts on Facebook or any forum I visit about what a great job Biden is doing. None. So, where are all those Democrats that were telling the whole world how great the man was and what a great job he would do if elected? There seems to be a definite shortage of those folks out there. Don't get me wrong. I'm no Trump fan. He never delivered on his promises regarding gun laws in this country. He campoaigned on that, but feel WAY short of hisYou are 100% correct. We have a bunch of America haters in DC. They are destroying this country one day at a time. Remember how good this country was doing under Trump? If we don't stop Biden & his clown show all of us will be living under the CCP if we already aren't. Remember when gasoline was $1.86 a gallon? The country was booming like never before under Trump. I don't care if you hate the man the numbers don't lie. The 2020 election was rigged and the Green Deal is being shoved down our throats. Sorry if this was too political.
#123
G
Gregyver
G
Gregyver
I've been working on EGO equipment for a couple years now along with some Toro battery powered stuff. My forte is gas engines but I knew I had to learn battery powered equipment because no matter what my personal feelings are about battery powered equipment, they are here to stay and you will have to contend with them to remain profitable. However, there is no way in the world that battery powered equipment can replace all gas powered equipment so there will always be a need for old school mechanics. That being said, my personal feelings will prevent me from ever buying a battery powered lawnmower or snow blower. I have discovered something about battery powered lawn mowers and snow blowers that will blow your mind. They have an inherent problem that cannot be overcome. If you stop the blade of a mower or the auger of a snow blower while they are in motion, an over current event will happen that will blow right past the fuses and fry a circuit board and there is nothing that can be done to prevent it from happening. Nonetheless, training for the future is a must. You could contact companies such as MEDART or Power Distributors and see if they are currently hosting any workshops on battery powered equipment. STIHL provides training for people that are already employed by a STIHL distributor. Maybe they could provide you with some insight regarding training. There are other resources available. I will make another post a little later today with some additional information.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
#124
smhardesty
smhardesty
You also have to consider the fact that the batteries aren't guaranteed to last 5 years and will be rpelaced for free during that 5 year period. They will be prorated, just like any other battery sold for ICE equipment. There is no way any company is going to do a full, free replacement of batteries for the entire 5 year period. So, if your batteries die at the start of the 4th year, you're going to pay a sizable chunk of change to get new batteries installed. If there is any evidence that a company is going to do a full, free replacement for a given period of time like 5 years, I haven't seen it.It's true that they are more harmful to the environment in their initial build due to the mining and manufacturing processes. But just like the Tesla and other EVs, they will overcome that pollution index # over time, they say a Tesla will cross that border around 50-60,000 miles. Battery technology is still too expensive for most and they hate the heat.
That said, I bought an Ego 18" electric chainsaw and that thing is a monster, nothing stops it, really surprised and happy with that compared to the standard 18" gas one's I've owned in the past.
The John Deere Z370R ET (electric tractor) will certainly be a topic once it's officially available, they are taking pre-orders now but they claim it can run for 2 hours on a charge. At $6,400, it should make me breakfast and make my bed but I'm eager to see one in person. You can feel good that the batteries also come with a 5 year warranty, but I can't find out how much the replacements will cost, but by then they'll be a lot cheaper.
#125
H
hallm
H
hallm
Here’s my problem, as a residential home owner. I have a B&D corded mower that is easily 30 plus years old. I have dragged the outer covering off of two 50” extension cords while I have owned it. The front wheels are void of any tread and the rears only have a little remaining. The protective toe guard fell off 15 years ago. It’s on its second motor fan assembly and cutting blade with a spare blade still hanging in my shop.
All my neighbours around me have switched over to battery powered mowers ranging from Stihls down to the cheap chinese mowers. All of them like their battery mowers, even the cheap ones. I am amazed at how well they all cut, even in the tall, not-mowed-offten grass.
My problem is not ditching the ICE issue so much as I would love to cut the extension cord. Every time my mower needs a repair, I fix it. I have my eye on a Stihl battery mower but I can’t bring myself to toss my corded B&D because I can fix it and it keeps on cutting so why toss something that still works???
This mower just might outlast me!
All my neighbours around me have switched over to battery powered mowers ranging from Stihls down to the cheap chinese mowers. All of them like their battery mowers, even the cheap ones. I am amazed at how well they all cut, even in the tall, not-mowed-offten grass.
My problem is not ditching the ICE issue so much as I would love to cut the extension cord. Every time my mower needs a repair, I fix it. I have my eye on a Stihl battery mower but I can’t bring myself to toss my corded B&D because I can fix it and it keeps on cutting so why toss something that still works???
This mower just might outlast me!
#126
smhardesty
smhardesty
There you go. That's very true. None of the battery powered OPE is going to last 10 to 20 years like the ICE OPE does. It just won't happen. I read on another forum a heated debate between a couple of guys arguing about EVs becoming obsolete after a period of 10 to 12 years. The guy stating that they would had some very convincing evidence that it may be true. I'd sure hate to pay $60,000 to $100,000 for an EV and find out that after 10 or 12 years it's obsolete. I can't afford to go through that kind of money every 10 years.Look at it this way...you see mowers many decades old still being used that are gas. With electric, we all know manufacturers will 'obsolete' the batteries after the machines are just a few years old. Its happening with power tools. And those cheap 'replacement' batteries you get on the internet aren't worth crap. They use the lowest quality cells in those.
Bottom line, your battery powered equipment really is throw-away after not so many years.
#127
smhardesty
As for the ridiculous cost of the batteries, you're dead right. In nearly all cases, the replacement battery or batteries will be considerably more than the cost of a whole new device with new batteries. They don't expect or want you to keep any battery powered OPE for more than a few years. They know the equipment won't hold up for years and years so they intentionally price batteries so you'll just buy a new device. It's exactly the same thing as printers for computers. You can buy a new printer for what the ink cartridges cost. They don't want you to keep the same printer for 20, or even 10 years. They want to sell more printers. I'd hate to think of how many different make and model of printers that have been tossed in the garbage only because the new cartridges cost more than a new printer, or that the cartridges are just no longer available. I'll bet I have tossed as many as 12 to 15 away.
smhardesty
I'm of the same mindset. I bought a new Craftsman lawn tractor 3 years ago. Every winter I pull the hood off, pull the deck out, do a complete service on the tractor, clean the underside of the deck so there isn't a single speck of dirt or grass, then apply two coats of primer and usually 2 or 3 coats of good, enamel paint, then apply a couple of coats of heavy duty metal protector to it. The rest of the tractor gets hand washed, then all metal parts waxed and all plastic or rubber parts get tow does of Armor ALL. If I see ANYTHING that looks like it is worn or bent, it gets replaced. I don't expect to buy another one in my lifetime.Batteries seem to be the wave of the future, at least for now. I've been considering slowly changing my equipment over but I'm waiting for two things, first, the old equipment to wear out to the point I no longer want to, or can, repair it. Second, I would like to see some improvement in battery technology to make them last longer, both between charges and their entire life cycle. Also, I'll let "the dust settle" to weed out which manufacturers will still be around to support their products in the future. I've had a few small battery operated tools for which I was unable to find replacement batteries once the originals ran out.
The other issue is cost. Often, the cost of a new battery is nearly as much as, or more than, the cost of an entire new tool. This makes no sense to me. It's not economically efficient for the customer, and certainly not a good deal overall for environmental concerns.
As for the ridiculous cost of the batteries, you're dead right. In nearly all cases, the replacement battery or batteries will be considerably more than the cost of a whole new device with new batteries. They don't expect or want you to keep any battery powered OPE for more than a few years. They know the equipment won't hold up for years and years so they intentionally price batteries so you'll just buy a new device. It's exactly the same thing as printers for computers. You can buy a new printer for what the ink cartridges cost. They don't want you to keep the same printer for 20, or even 10 years. They want to sell more printers. I'd hate to think of how many different make and model of printers that have been tossed in the garbage only because the new cartridges cost more than a new printer, or that the cartridges are just no longer available. I'll bet I have tossed as many as 12 to 15 away.
#128
T
TobyU
I've covered all this before and I cover it with facts not personal preferences.
Personal preference wise, I hate most battery-powered things but not all.
I switched over to battery powered drills in the mid 80s because I also kind of hate electric plug-in things. Maybe I just hate electric things. Lol that's probably it because I always liked RC cars but I hated the battery ones and always loved the gasoline ones but it's not like those were perfect either.
I have clearly pointed out many times that there are benefits and disadvantages to both and there's nothing more convenient than a leaf blower that you can simply grab the battery off the charger slide it on and go blow off your sidewalk!
It's far more convenient than a gasoline powered one that traditionally, you eventually had to mix up gas and oil for it and had to fill it up which was smelly and possibly messy and you had to pull start it.
While I've had a few over the years that were a breeze to start and easy to pull, most took at least six or seven pulls to get started.
So, it's just far more convenient to have a battery one UNTIL you need one for over 15 or 20 minutes.
That's when it's easier to have a gasoline because some of them will run for an hour or more on a tank of fuel and you don't have to have two or three batteries to continue to use them.
So personally, I hate the outdoor power equipment battery powered stuff but I'm still quite accurate and honest about the benefits and disadvantages..
Most people have a great sacrifice in power and operation time when they switch over to battery.
Only people who cut their grass when it really doesn't need to be cut will say they really can't notice a difference one way or the other unless they have a very large yard.
The other people will notice right away the mower doesn't have as much power and when the grass is tall and overgrown you can't get anywhere near the cut time you expect or what the package says and this is how a lot of people in this country cut their grass.
So it's a sacrifice. People don't have these Good batteries you speak of. They have these overpriced yet cheap quality, disposable ones.
I say disposable because in a year or so they're not working right so you have to replace them. Certainly you can stick them in that recycle box at Lowe's but that's still considered disposable to me.
The main drawback always comes down to batteries and battery capacity and longevity isn't where it needs to be for 2023.
It's just like with car batteries. The technology is basically the same as it was in 1960 or earlier.
In fact the new car batteries don't even last as long as the old ones!
The average lifespan of a car battery now is just under 4 years which is pathetic but we are continually being trained as consumers that that's okay, acceptable or to be expected.
In past times anytime you sold or junked a car you took your battery out and kept it and put some old lousy battery in because your battery was still great and could last for many more years.
Kind of like the engines on lawn mowers and push mowers but not so much anymore because the new Briggs with its plastic camshaft is pretty junky and has a short finite life span.
A car battery for 2023 should be the size of your fist and should be able to power your car with the key in the on position for at least an hour plus if not 2 to 3 hours and it should last 10 years minimum.
It also shouldn't cost over 40 bucks!
If battery technology had progressed anywhere near as quickly as things like medical technology, computer and storage capacity we would be at these levels or beyond but that simply hasn't happened.
Now, if and when they ever do get batteries up to where they need to be the next problem for the battery powered mowers will be the motors will fail and burn up.
Kind of like the old electric plug in lawn mowers.
I can't tell you how many of those I've seen that were burnt up because the people were cutting and overgrown field looking yard with one.
They had unlimited power from the cord pretty much and could draw quite High amps but they just weren't up to the task of 100% duty cycle like a gasoline lawn mower engine is or at least has been.
T
TobyU
But this is kind of like best case scenario and not what the average person is going to experience not right now in the very near future.Ok... Let me stirr the pot.... Most of the people here that's against the electric stuff has no idea....
You are not doing your research.... Electric going to win....
I'll start by saying that I have over 50 gas tractors and I love them.
But I also have electric. I love them even more.
Lets talk about batteries. Do your research... Look up Solid state batteries . No joke....
These batteries are made from sodium and sand. No hurting the environment here.
Battery was tested in a car and went from the east coast of USA to the west coast 3 times on one charge. I could tell you a lot about this battery but I'll just let you all do your own research.
Some here say when the electric stuff gets old it will be junk. My 1972 Wheelhorse electric tractor is still working great. I have family that just bought a Tesla car. They drove from Florida to Pa on one charge.
I just bought a Fucare Ebike and I got 160 miles on it so far and it's working great. Costing me
8 cents to ride 40 miles with me not helping pedal. I have bothe an electric chainsaw and a weed eater.
Both working great. Let me say I do hate all lithium batteries. Time bombs I call them. But when this
Solid state battery hits the market watch out. Just look how far electric fork lift trucks have come.
I've covered all this before and I cover it with facts not personal preferences.
Personal preference wise, I hate most battery-powered things but not all.
I switched over to battery powered drills in the mid 80s because I also kind of hate electric plug-in things. Maybe I just hate electric things. Lol that's probably it because I always liked RC cars but I hated the battery ones and always loved the gasoline ones but it's not like those were perfect either.
I have clearly pointed out many times that there are benefits and disadvantages to both and there's nothing more convenient than a leaf blower that you can simply grab the battery off the charger slide it on and go blow off your sidewalk!
It's far more convenient than a gasoline powered one that traditionally, you eventually had to mix up gas and oil for it and had to fill it up which was smelly and possibly messy and you had to pull start it.
While I've had a few over the years that were a breeze to start and easy to pull, most took at least six or seven pulls to get started.
So, it's just far more convenient to have a battery one UNTIL you need one for over 15 or 20 minutes.
That's when it's easier to have a gasoline because some of them will run for an hour or more on a tank of fuel and you don't have to have two or three batteries to continue to use them.
So personally, I hate the outdoor power equipment battery powered stuff but I'm still quite accurate and honest about the benefits and disadvantages..
Most people have a great sacrifice in power and operation time when they switch over to battery.
Only people who cut their grass when it really doesn't need to be cut will say they really can't notice a difference one way or the other unless they have a very large yard.
The other people will notice right away the mower doesn't have as much power and when the grass is tall and overgrown you can't get anywhere near the cut time you expect or what the package says and this is how a lot of people in this country cut their grass.
So it's a sacrifice. People don't have these Good batteries you speak of. They have these overpriced yet cheap quality, disposable ones.
I say disposable because in a year or so they're not working right so you have to replace them. Certainly you can stick them in that recycle box at Lowe's but that's still considered disposable to me.
The main drawback always comes down to batteries and battery capacity and longevity isn't where it needs to be for 2023.
It's just like with car batteries. The technology is basically the same as it was in 1960 or earlier.
In fact the new car batteries don't even last as long as the old ones!
The average lifespan of a car battery now is just under 4 years which is pathetic but we are continually being trained as consumers that that's okay, acceptable or to be expected.
In past times anytime you sold or junked a car you took your battery out and kept it and put some old lousy battery in because your battery was still great and could last for many more years.
Kind of like the engines on lawn mowers and push mowers but not so much anymore because the new Briggs with its plastic camshaft is pretty junky and has a short finite life span.
A car battery for 2023 should be the size of your fist and should be able to power your car with the key in the on position for at least an hour plus if not 2 to 3 hours and it should last 10 years minimum.
It also shouldn't cost over 40 bucks!
If battery technology had progressed anywhere near as quickly as things like medical technology, computer and storage capacity we would be at these levels or beyond but that simply hasn't happened.
Now, if and when they ever do get batteries up to where they need to be the next problem for the battery powered mowers will be the motors will fail and burn up.
Kind of like the old electric plug in lawn mowers.
I can't tell you how many of those I've seen that were burnt up because the people were cutting and overgrown field looking yard with one.
They had unlimited power from the cord pretty much and could draw quite High amps but they just weren't up to the task of 100% duty cycle like a gasoline lawn mower engine is or at least has been.
#129
smhardesty
smhardesty
I now live in town so I sold off a whole bunch of my equipment and tools when we moved to town from the farm. About 3 months after we moved in, there was some freakish severe weather that hit near the end of December or the first of January. I had a huge limb down out of one of my oak trees. I figured I would only need a chainsaw once or twice so I bought an electric corded saw. I have never been so disappointed in a piece of equipment as I was with that stupid saw. I didn't even get half the limb sawed up before the chain broke, and that was after having to stop 3 or 4 times to readjust the chain. I ended up borrowing a real saw from a guy I know. It was a Stihl. Don't ask me what model. I don't think I even bothered looking at that. All I know is that it took me about 25 to 30 minutes to buzz the rest of that limb up and then do one the same size for my next door neighbor.Try cutting trees for firewood, limbing them, and cutting to stove length with an electric chainsaw. You will be tossing that chainsaw in the trash bin after wasting your valuable time.
#130
smhardesty
smhardesty
I have the same, exact situation. I have a Worx trimmer, blower, hedge trimmer, and drill. If I'm only going to drive a few screws or drill just a few holes, the Worx drill is OK. The trimmer refuses to feed line so I'm constantly stopping, turning the thing upside down, and then pulling string out manually. As for the blower, what a joke! I can't make it all the way around my house, blowing leaves away so I can mulch them with two batteries. No kidding. Two batteries will NOT make it around my house. So, I'm a dinosaur too. I'll stick to ICE OPE for the remainder of my life.Maybe electric is the answer for the weekend warrior ( I still have my doubts as the batteries just don't last long enough yet), but I don't see them being viable for the professional any time in the distant future. Unless we get some revolutionary new battery that will hold a charge for hours and hours under use. People are living in a pipe dream regarding electric. I'm just a weekend power equipment warrior and I can't even use electric equipment. I tried a blower and it was all but useless for my property. Just doesn't last long enough. i'm not going to shell out tons for extra batteries. I'll stick with my dino powered equipment thank you. Same goes for vehicles. I just travel too far for electric to be viable. Hybrid is about as close as I can get.
#131
smhardesty
smhardesty
You mean you can't do that to battery powered walk behinds. And that is true. You also best not run the thing over a puddle of water while mowing. It will fry the motor sure enough. I flip the decks of ICE push mowers and turn the pressure washer on them. They are nearly as clean underneath as on top when I get done with them. I can't confirm it, but I read on another forum where a guy was using a Kobalt push mower to mow his grass shortly after a light rain shower. Supposedly the wet grass caused the motor to fry. Now, we all know we should NOT mow wet grass. Since I have moved into town I have been blown away by the number of neighbors and commercial mowers that will mow within 15 minutes of a rain shower. I sit and watch them do it, then look at the mess of clumpy, wet grass they leave behind. It doesn't seem to bother any of them. I can't tolerate my yard looking like that.You guys did a fantastic job of side stepping his questions and airing your thoughts on politics. I will answer as best I can from a consumer's side as I do repairs, but not as a repair facility. The electrics offer a lot to the consumer. No gas, no oil, very quiet and light weight and virtually no maintenance other than keeping it charged and clean. I have repaired a couple and it's normal things like tires, safety switches, blades, etc. The down side is the batteries will wear out, or you'll desire a second one to allow more cutting time. As said, they are costly to purchase afterwards, but I would imagine most will purchase off line unless it's needed quickly.
One other thought, for users that are used to washing the deck underside, you can't do that with the wlk behinds, it burns out the motors. If I were a shop, I would stock everyday things like blades and a few batteries. You would have to research which machines are the most common.
#132
smhardesty
smhardesty
I think that might be the most honest and correct statement in this whole thread so far. I don't do electrical. I was in computer work for 30+ years. Friends, neighbors, family can't understand why I won't work on anything electrical. I'll bet I have said this a few thousand times, electronic and electrical are NOT the same thing. We have a couple of local shops that rewind electric motors. I figured those shops are the ones that can make money repairing battery powered OPE. Maybe I'm all wet.Repair - other than battery power the mower was just a rotary blade running on a shaft and bearing. My guess is that a phone AP will be available to trouble shoot any electrical issues.
#133
A
adam1991
A
adam1991
Wrong.As of now, it's not the best idea or most convenient for most people to go with battery powered equipment.
There are several reasons for this but most of it boils down to the battery technology, capacity, and lifespan just isn't there and it's not where it should be especially for 2023.
To be honest with you there's not a whole lot of difference in the battery technology for this type of equipment and for things like cordless drills etc then there was in the late 80s and early nineties.
Some people may disagree but...they are wrong. Lol
You could take a high quality Milwaukee or Makita drill from back then and compare it to your new latest and greatest lithium ion drill and about the only difference will be size and weight which for most people is not really a concern.
Some of the new ones are built and designed so weirdly that they won't even stand up on the their base upright like the old ones have done for decades.
The high qualities would drive hundreds of screws into deck wood or two before is ETC and had plenty of power and many of those are still being used today even though they're on there multiple sets of replacement batteries whereas the new ones end up having stripped out clutches and gears inside etc.
So they really haven't improved much and especially not where battery technology needs to be for 2023.
Hey, that's a rhyme.
The problem with battery is most people can't actually cut their lawn on One battery or one charge.
I guess it depends on where most of these people live because with smaller lots then sure you can pull it off but in a lot of areas around this country where lots are well over 1/3 acre and even at a half an acre you just can't do it unless you're simply walking the mower around the land and not really cutting grass.
The marketing is very deceptive and so is the specifications for these mowers. When they say cuts up to 1.2 acres or whatever it says or it says 20 minutes run time or 45 minutes run time, the problem is this is sometimes with the self-propelled feature off on a walk behind mower and it is always under ideal conditions of flat ground and barely trimming like under an inch off of the grass and certainly with grass that barely looks like it needs to be cut.
If you use one of these mowers for an overgrown lawn like many people have done with gasoline mowers where they only cut it every 10 to 20 days then you won't get over 15 minutes or so from one of these mowers and it will also look terrible because they bog down so much and don't even have much inertia from there wimpy light blades.
Now, some of the traditional gasoline more manufacturers are starting to build a more that looks just like their standard mowers and has a very similar if not the same blade and all they have done is put an electric motor in place of the gasoline engine and that's an improvement versus these narrower plastic battery powered mowers with a very thin light duty and lightweight blade.
Now the big problem previously was that the battery riders were extremely overpriced! But now they're solving that problem because they're just raising the prices on the gasoline ones to exorbitant crazy levels!
I predicted this last year and I'm seeing it come true. The Cub cadet 42 inch mower at Home Depot I believe was 4,400 but it was some crazy amount whereas the gasoline one earlier that season and the end of the season before was 1588 or 1799 depending on engines and stuff like that.
So now these gasoline mowers which are the exact same mower for all intents and purposes they were the year before with some of them being the exact same mowers that were just rolled in in September and then rolled back out in March are now $3,000 or something like that and it's ridiculous.
Early on you were paying a premium to be a pioneer for a battery mower as they were five and six hundred dollars when the gasoline option was 249 to 349.
Then all of a sudden a season or two ago I saw them flip those prices and they had lowered the price of the battery mowers and raise the prices of the gasoline so all these manufacturers are going to do is messing around different ways and use one to subsidize the other and eventually the prices will meet probably in the middle or the industry will be so against gasoline that they will charge an actual premium on those which is obviously just a penalty premium to deter sales of them and just steer people in the direction of battery mowers.
It just blows back to the problem now that whether you love them or hate them because there are some pluses and minuses of each, the problem is for most people a battery powered mower and battery battery powered equipment is too much of a sacrifice.
You sacrifice too much use time and too much power.
Then top it off with the battery life span is not very good and the replacement battery prices are quite amazingly High currently
But the air conditioning us to expect to put big money into everything or a large percentage of the price because it's not like you can buy a lawn mower today and that engine is going to last 20 plus years like the old ones. You're lucky to get 8 or 10 years out of these new ones with their stupid plastic camshaft and stuff like that and they want you to have to buy a new one or put $250 into repair on a $450 lawn mower which is absurd.
So it doesn't make it sound so bad to spend $149 for One battery and 199 for the more capacity one. I was literally at Menards last week and they had three batteries available for their line of outdoor power equipment . They all three were overpriced but the highest amp hour capacity was 199.
$200 for a battery for anything is a rip-off but especially something that's probably only going to get you two to three years at best and the capacity won't be very good the last third of that lifespan.
As we go further into the future and they continue to contaminate and use up lithium and stuff like that I'm sure they'll be price premiums and penalties involved in these prices and batteries could be even more expensive..
It's simply a solution for a non problem!
It's fine to have little cheap ones like blowers and string trimmers for people who like the events of just sticking the battery on and going out and doing a quick trim or blow but if you need something for over 12 to 15 minutes you're pretty much out of luck and then you're switching batteries and all of that.
But it's nice not to have to pull the rope and start one because they never got smart enough to make them easier to start despite three different attempts I can think of none of which panned out very well.
Unfortunately those of us who like the one and done theory of buying something good quality and never having to buy another one is probably a thing of the past but the problem is they haven't lowered the price to make up for it so at the end of 30 or 40 years you still spent the same amount per year of ownership.
Most people in this world and most entities actually want us to spend more money and they want it to be more expensive to live even if you are lucky enough to get more money, have more money, earn more money etc. They don't care even if they give it to you, they just want you to spend more because more is always better in their eyes.
#134
smhardesty
smhardesty
I'm fully aware of what is going on in Alaska. My comments were specific to the 48 contiguous stares and off shore drilling. Where is the new exploration and the additional drilling and pumping of crude in those areas? You can NOT deny that Biden halted exploration and new drilling in the areas I'm referring to. Then, just take a look at the potential production from under the Dakotas, Iowa, and millions of acres of ocean areas. He stopped all of that. Then, turned around and increased the importation of FOREIGN crude. The bottom line is that we are now paying $4.00 a gallon for gasoline when we were only paying $1.90 a few years earlier. THAT is my point. How is it in the best interest of the United States to reduce production of oil in our own backyard, then pay higher prices for crude from foreign countries? I'm no economics major, but I see a pretty obvious problem with that line of thinking.Please Google "Willow Project" and then get back to us on this topic. Or don't. Learning new things is up to all of us individually.
#135
smhardesty
smhardesty
I will ignore your attempts to provoke me into an argument you are obviously not equipped to handle. My advice would be that if you managed to get the info you needed to fix your carb, you should probably just leave the forum. You are the only person to make any attack on any other member of this forum The rest of us were exchanging ideas and we were all learning from what the others said. Nothing positive can result from your attempt to provoke me, or any other member of this forum, into an argument. Yes, I see you are new. I also see an individual making a complete ass of himself. If you think you are capable of actually CONTRIBUTING to a discussion, feel free. Otherwise, why not just clam up and learn something from the rest of us?You should have stayed with this line. I was reading these posts out loud to my wife and started with your premise of trying to learn new things. She said "good for that guy, he wants to learn and look to the future". But then after some of the negative (and kind of ignorant if we're being honest) comments, you seem to have caved to the idiocy of anti-technology people who think that ICE tech has been around for a thousand years, and also don't seem to grasp the idea that shoving our planet full of carbon discharge might not be a growth option for our species. Bravo to the first version of you, boo to the second. Come back to the light side!
#136
smhardesty
smhardesty
Very well stated. The one thing that most guys refuse to include in the argument of EVs being just like the Model T is how they were presented to the public. What is left out of the argument is that no one, government or otherwise, FORCED any person to buy a Model T with an ICE. The EVs are going to be forced upon us by government agencies. That makes a whole lot of difference in how the two were introduced to the consumer. They threat of completely outlawing and banning ICEs of any kind is too strong armed for most to accept. Sure, EVs may very well be the way of the future. If so, develop them completely, offer them to the public at reasonable prices, and then see what the CONSUMER decides. Maybe in the time the consumer is deciding, an alternative may arise, like Hydrogen cell vehicles. Maybe some person or organization will develop an even better solution. Government strong arming is never a good thing.Well Sir, in the country I live in EVERTHING of this nature is made in China. ...By American Companies! (Time that was addressed, I feel)
And most of it is single-use or fails after a few months and getting service, whether under guarantee or not, is time consuming/frustrating....it invariably involves a waiting period of at least a month whilst "they investigate"...only to issue a credit note and they bin the defective battery tool. (Yet more pollution.)
A lot of my criticism stems from the fact that the mining of Lithium, particularly in Africa is akin to slavery....Yet the BLM and the wokists are very quiet on the subject.
Good short video on YT regarding this disgusting state of affairs.
Then, as others have mentioned: There is the disposal problem. There is already a plague of wind turbine blades that cannot (at least, if profit is the key factor) be recycled.
Then there is the safety aspect: Electric cars are much heavier as a result of their batteries, but the cars themselves are lighter in order to extend range, the net result being the car is a death trap in a shunt.....and that's before you take into consideration the increased fire hazard: A Lithium battery fire cannot be extinguished by current car-carried extinguishers.
Even the responding firefighters will struggle bring the fire under control.
I have seen demonstrations where such burning vehicles were submerged in a tank of water: When removed days later: The fire reignited itself!
If all this seems to be the attitude of a Luddite.... I will conclude with the following:
This Headless Chicken Dash into "Clean Electric" will take decades to safely achieve and at massive cost, not just to the consumer, but also to the planet.
Also: Remember this: Every month, of every year, at least one new Coal Fired Electricity Station is opened in either China or India. Yet we are urged to "Save The Planet".
It's a crock of.......................
#137
smhardesty
smhardesty
You got it right! As a person that spent 30+ years in the computing industry, I saw this "disposable item" crap first hand. When PCs were first offered to the public, I could build a better computer and for less money than one that one of the big manufacturers produced. Then, a few years later, I could no longer provide one that cost less. I could still build a better one, but because the big companies started controlling the prices of components, I could no longer compete price wise. At that point, I was just repairing PCs that the big companies produced. A VERY few years later it had reached the point that if the computer I was working on was more than a couple of years old, I would just tell the customer to throw it away and go buy whatever Walmart had on the shelf. We had reached the "disposable item" era of the personal computer Now, smart phones are the same way.I think the consumer will be in for a shock when he see's how much good electric stuff costs...and how much to repair... oh It needs a battery pack ? something simple and when they see the price...they go back to gas ...they get another electric and try again....call somebody to cut the lawn...let it grow or get a couple of goats, no goats? how bout a flock of sheep noe you are probably thinking Astro turf? or just catus and rocks..It's kind of like color TV's when was the last time you saw one of those fixed....they just get a bigger BETTER more expensive one....and charge it!....oh that's for Electric mowers...they chrage them x two!...
#138
smhardesty
smhardesty
Now, that is something I had a discussion with a guy here in town about. He went all battery powered with his stuff a couple of years ago. He openly admitted that he regularly lets his lawn get too high. He said if the grass is more than about 3.5" to 4" tall, his two batteries won't mow his whole lawn. He has a typical city lot just like me. It takes me 35 minutes to mow my lawn with my lawn tractor. He said when he was using a gas push mower it would take him between 45 minutes to an hour to mow, depending on just how tall the grass was. Now, he uses the two batteries, then waits a few hours while they charge up, then finishes the lawn. He admitted that if he mowed when he should, the two batteries do last long enough to finish the mowing. Maybe they will finally figure out how to manufacturer a battery with enough juice to cut 4" or 5" tall grass and also develop batteries that will last much longer so you only need one battery.If you use one of these mowers for an overgrown lawn like many people have done with gasoline mowers where they only cut it every 10 to 20 days then you won't get over 15 minutes or so from one of these mowers and it will also look terrible because they bog down so much and don't even have much inertia from there wimpy light blades.
#139
smhardesty
smhardesty
Now, that is something I had a discussion with a guy here in town about. He went all battery powered with his stuff a couple of years ago. He openly admitted that he regularly lets his lawn get too high. He said if the grass is more than about 3.5" to 4" tall, his two batteries won't mow his whole lawn. He has a typical city lot just like me. It takes me 35 minutes to mow my lawn with my lawn tractor. He said when he was using a gas push mower it would take him between 45 minutes to an hour to mow, depending on just how tall the grass was. Now, he uses the two batteries, then waits a few hours while they charge up, then finishes the lawn. He admitted that if he mowed when he should, the two batteries do last long enough to finish the mowing. Maybe they will finally figure out how to manufacturer a battery with enough juice to cut 4" or 5" tall grass and also develop batteries that will last much longer so you only need one battery.If you use one of these mowers for an overgrown lawn like many people have done with gasoline mowers where they only cut it every 10 to 20 days then you won't get over 15 minutes or so from one of these mowers and it will also look terrible because they bog down so much and don't even have much inertia from there wimpy light blades.
#140
smhardesty
smhardesty
I've been doing as much research into repairing battery powered equipment and I think I'm just going to stick with repairing ICE OPE. The biggest reason is that I'm not trying to open and run a shop that does LOTS of repairs and I don't have any intent of doing this type of thing for years and years to come. My original question was whether there were places to get the training to do the repairs and if it would be worth my time and money to learn. From everything that has been said, I think that might be something that just isn't right for me. I think the biggest reason I'd stay away from learning is that, for the most part, real repairs to these devices would amount to repairing the electric motor, which most electric repair shops can already do. The other reason is that, again for the most part, the OPE that is on the market today is disposable. Yes, there are a few companies producing battery powered OPE that will last 10 years, give or take, but the rest of the stuff, which is probably bought by the customers I'd get, is the cheap, throw away equipment. I think I'll just stick to the old fossil fuel, smoking and belching, dinosaurs.I've been working on EGO equipment for a couple years now along with some Toro battery powered stuff. My forte is gas engines but I knew I had to learn battery powered equipment because no matter what my personal feelings are about battery powered equipment, they are here to stay and you will have to contend with them to remain profitable. However, there is no way in the world that battery powered equipment can replace all gas powered equipment so there will always be a need for old school mechanics. That being said, my personal feelings will prevent me from ever buying a battery powered lawnmower or snow blower. I have discovered something about battery powered lawn mowers and snow blowers that will blow your mind. They have an inherent problem that cannot be overcome. If you stop the blade of a mower or the auger of a snow blower while they are in motion, an over current event will happen that will blow right past the fuses and fry a circuit board and there is nothing that can be done to prevent it from happening. Nonetheless, training for the future is a must. You could contact companies such as MEDART or Power Distributors and see if they are currently hosting any workshops on battery powered equipment. STIHL provides training for people that are already employed by a STIHL distributor. Maybe they could provide you with some insight regarding training. There are other resources available. I will make another post a little later today with some additional information.
#141
smhardesty
smhardesty
I think that pretty much sums up what my clientele would be. I'm not a big, well know repair shop. I'm just a guy trying to stay busy by refurbishing some equipment for resell and doing some minor servicing and repairs for a few customers. The people that I'd be dealing with are the ones that would be buying that cheap stuff sold at the big box stores. I really was just curious to know if there were any reasonably priced courses on how to repair this new, battery powered stuff. It seems that there is not anything like that and that the real repair to a battery powered mower would consist of replacing batteries and then taking the motor to an electric shop to have the motor repaired. I say that because I'm not an electrician by any means.not what the average person is going to experience not right now in the very near future.
#142
chuckpen
chuckpen
On a $600 dollar Kobalt Electric mower the blade adapter is made of plastic and the blade shearpins are plastic nubs. hit anything with the blade and that blade adapter is done. Oh, and Kobalt does not provide a replacement part. $600 mower on side of road... Lowes has an issue ....
#143
sgkent
sgkent
there is an inherent flaw in thinking EV mowers, cars, etc., have years of development left. The whole problem with any device is the power it needs to work. Whether you were a downed aviator in WWII who had a crank powered transmitter to call for help, or a modern smart phone user dialing 911, both calls required energy. The energy today is stored in batteries. Electric cars are well over 100 years old, older than aircraft. Battery technology is even older. You can make a car lighter and more aerodynamic to get more miles out of a charge. One can stuff more batteries into a pack and use computers to control charge and discharge to get more efficiency, but the technology is quite mature as to what minerals and chemicals will store energy. One cannot make their lawn grass require less energy to cut. Thinner sharper blades, wind tunnel testing of blade airflow have all been done. We are at diminishing returns on these devices. The low hanging fruit has been picked. And that is without discussing all the other things that go along with the mandated changes. There are things I won't post publicly but I will say that there are peer reviewed scientific papers out there showing ways the CO2 problem can be solved quite quickly, and with a lot less disruption to people. No one discusses it, why? Because it would interfere with investments and politics. I came here today to see what people think of the new Toro electric mower, or maybe the Makita. The ICE Toro I have is rear wheel drive, is a 2006 model and starts on the first pull each time. It has been flawless. If it gets replaced, what replaces it has to meet that. I have already replaced the Toro EV weedwacker once after about 10 hours use, and I've had to play with the head settings to get it to feed properly. Every electric yard device or tool I have every bought has either failed, or I've had to replace the battery many times over. It is also a pain to remember to charge them frequently when they are not being used. I have never had any battery last 7 - 10 years. That includes those in the hundreds of laptops I used to support for CalEPA & CalRecycle (which I have heard from friends there that neither has a plan yet what to do with all these batteries when they wear out). I do hope someone can tell me a little about their experience with the TORO EV mowers.
#144
smhardesty
smhardesty
Well said, sgkent. I'd say that is a common opinion of battery powered equipment.
#145
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Actually battery technology is advancing on a second by second basis.
It has too because Li & Co are in short supply to the point there is not enough Co known to exist ( we might find more ) to convert every currently registered vehicle in the USA alone to EV's and that excludes trucks & trains let alone grid batteries.
SO there is a frantic search for new combinations to make batteries out of.
Now true all batteries are reversable redox reactions and we know just about every redox reaction for every element on the periodic table.
Supply shortfall drives up the raw materials price.
So to date we have been using the very cheap plentiful elements & compounds to make batteries from, there are a lot lot more that we could have been using
Even Tesla is looking at converting to a Mn battery and I will guess that is because the price of Li is skyrocketing
Capitalism is very wasteful because it is always cheapest ( most profitable ) to use up all of resource that is plentiful & cheap , then when you have consumed all of it move on to the next cheapest resource & use up all of it .
Very rarely is what is being consumed is being used in the most efficient manner because that costs money & reduces profit .
Perfect example is radiant wall coal fired power stations.
If the powdered coal burners were replaced with syngas burners then they would use around 1/3 to 2/3 the tons of coal that they do now plus there would be a host of valuable by products that are otherwise just burned and become pollutants , most of which go up the chimney & into the air we breathe
In most coal deposits there are enough radioactive isotopes to power a necular power station for a few seconds and while that does not sound like much, when you multiply that out by the hundreds of millions of tons of coal that is burned it becomes significant
It has too because Li & Co are in short supply to the point there is not enough Co known to exist ( we might find more ) to convert every currently registered vehicle in the USA alone to EV's and that excludes trucks & trains let alone grid batteries.
SO there is a frantic search for new combinations to make batteries out of.
Now true all batteries are reversable redox reactions and we know just about every redox reaction for every element on the periodic table.
Supply shortfall drives up the raw materials price.
So to date we have been using the very cheap plentiful elements & compounds to make batteries from, there are a lot lot more that we could have been using
Even Tesla is looking at converting to a Mn battery and I will guess that is because the price of Li is skyrocketing
Capitalism is very wasteful because it is always cheapest ( most profitable ) to use up all of resource that is plentiful & cheap , then when you have consumed all of it move on to the next cheapest resource & use up all of it .
Very rarely is what is being consumed is being used in the most efficient manner because that costs money & reduces profit .
Perfect example is radiant wall coal fired power stations.
If the powdered coal burners were replaced with syngas burners then they would use around 1/3 to 2/3 the tons of coal that they do now plus there would be a host of valuable by products that are otherwise just burned and become pollutants , most of which go up the chimney & into the air we breathe
In most coal deposits there are enough radioactive isotopes to power a necular power station for a few seconds and while that does not sound like much, when you multiply that out by the hundreds of millions of tons of coal that is burned it becomes significant
#146
C
ctrlburn
The batteries are normal glasspack - and get recycled with regular car batteries.
For repairs - I swapped the 4 batteries in 2019. Replaced a motor bearing (but I think Cub Cadet would rather I swapped the motor) and replaced the front tires in 2022.
I probably swapped batteries prematurely - system has no Battery Management System for balancing and now I know that I should have jsut rebalanced them.
1,131 Miles, 317.4 Hr Runtime and 283.7 hours Deck time.
For charging I have 3 solar cells on the cargo trailer I park it in and it is ready to charge, just like the grass, in about a week.
Heavy grass takes two passes one high the over low in opposite direction. It is so much quieter I don't mind the longer mowing time, and neither do the neighbors.
Not for reclamation of anything that went wild - but certainly adequate for maintaining any well cropped yard.
Stihl electric for trimming, blowing.
C
ctrlburn
I've got Cub Cadet RZT-S Zero electric riding mower since 2015 and mow an acre (plus a neighbor's) with Wisconsin's regularity.I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.
So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?
Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.
The batteries are normal glasspack - and get recycled with regular car batteries.
For repairs - I swapped the 4 batteries in 2019. Replaced a motor bearing (but I think Cub Cadet would rather I swapped the motor) and replaced the front tires in 2022.
I probably swapped batteries prematurely - system has no Battery Management System for balancing and now I know that I should have jsut rebalanced them.
1,131 Miles, 317.4 Hr Runtime and 283.7 hours Deck time.
For charging I have 3 solar cells on the cargo trailer I park it in and it is ready to charge, just like the grass, in about a week.
Heavy grass takes two passes one high the over low in opposite direction. It is so much quieter I don't mind the longer mowing time, and neither do the neighbors.
Not for reclamation of anything that went wild - but certainly adequate for maintaining any well cropped yard.
Stihl electric for trimming, blowing.
#147
H
hertfordnc
H
hertfordnc
Interesting conversation. I think people are confusing the quality of certain products with the capability of the technology.
A properly built electric mower would be perfect for most home users. Walk-behind or riders, it's 40 minutes of use followed by a week of charge time.
Look at golf carts, they do their job and very few owners would opt for gas power.
Every spring millions of home owners can't get their mower started because they don't know about ethanol, and spark plugs and carbs.
THe industry is expecting electric mowers to be 65% of the market in 10 years.
A properly built electric mower would be perfect for most home users. Walk-behind or riders, it's 40 minutes of use followed by a week of charge time.
Look at golf carts, they do their job and very few owners would opt for gas power.
Every spring millions of home owners can't get their mower started because they don't know about ethanol, and spark plugs and carbs.
THe industry is expecting electric mowers to be 65% of the market in 10 years.
#148
A
adam1991
If all you know is the cheap Chinese stuff, that's a problem. If you don't want to acknowledge anything better because "that costs more!!!", that's a problem.
The whole world doesn't suck.
A
adam1991
100% this.I think people are confusing the quality of certain products with the capability of the technology.
If all you know is the cheap Chinese stuff, that's a problem. If you don't want to acknowledge anything better because "that costs more!!!", that's a problem.
The whole world doesn't suck.
#149
S
smears
Both worlds can (and DO) coexist. Businesses also can make the choice. There are plenty of markets to serve, we just have to be willing to pivot if it’s necessary. Blaming politicians is fruitless … none of them take care of their own property anyway. It’s just capitalism, that’s all.
S
smears
Agreed. Not a popular stance but politics has nothing to do with this subject. Nothing is getting shoved down our throats. EVERYONE has the option to choose. At home, I mow with gas and I prefer electric (Ego) for trimming and for leaf blowing (Stihl). However, on my farm property, totally ICE. Electric *might* do the job but it would take much more time which, as a grandfather, can be occupied by more important things.Interesting conversation. I think people are confusing the quality of certain products with the capability of the technology.
A properly built electric mower would be perfect for most home users. Walk-behind or riders, it's 40 minutes of use followed by a week of charge time.
Look at golf carts, they do their job and very few owners would opt for gas power.
Every spring millions of home owners can't get their mower started because they don't know about ethanol, and spark plugs and carbs.
THe industry is expecting electric mowers to be 65% of the market in 10 years.
Both worlds can (and DO) coexist. Businesses also can make the choice. There are plenty of markets to serve, we just have to be willing to pivot if it’s necessary. Blaming politicians is fruitless … none of them take care of their own property anyway. It’s just capitalism, that’s all.
#150
A
adam1991
The local mower repair place puts a huge sticker on every mower that goes out: don't use grocery store gas, use Shell.
A
adam1991
frankly, they don't know about cheap gas vs good gas (just run good gas, it won't kill you, around here it's Shell or Costco) and simply running it out at the end of the season.Every spring millions of home owners can't get their mower started because they don't know about ethanol, and spark plugs and carbs.
The local mower repair place puts a huge sticker on every mower that goes out: don't use grocery store gas, use Shell.
#151
B
bertsmobile1
TICKET PRICE
Down here golf courses lease carts on a 4 year term
Why ?
because that is the average life of the batteries and a new battery pack is about 2/3 of the the replacement price of the entire cart
So the golf courses then sell the old carts with the knowledge that if only used one day a week as opposed to 6 times a day they will last the owners another 3 to 6 years , a bit longer if they swap the batteries around and replace the end two .
As for market expectations, Cal is apparently 20% of the entire US market for just about everything ( if not higher ) and ICE will be illegal in mowers from Jan 1 2025.
Once that happens the very passionate and equally emotional as they are ignorant "greens" will force the same in all of the costal mostly metropolitan states.
Farmers tend to be a lot better informed & far more pragmatic so a lot less emotional .
And if E-mowers had a mandated life of 10+ years and the retailers / makers were liable for the collection & disposal of the spent batteries and if not supplying the batteries for 10 year minimum then they would be made properly.
But we all know that will not happen
The motors will be snap together so they can not be repaired without breaking them.
The controllers will all have custom chips only available from the factory and will become unavilable in a couple of years
And most will be sourced from China / India or any other third world country with a sufficient over supply to cover warranty repairs after which it will be tough luck for the owner
B
bertsmobile1
It is the same storyInteresting conversation. I think people are confusing the quality of certain products with the capability of the technology.
A properly built electric mower would be perfect for most home users. Walk-behind or riders, it's 40 minutes of use followed by a week of charge time.
Look at golf carts, they do their job and very few owners would opt for gas power.
Every spring millions of home owners can't get their mower started because they don't know about ethanol, and spark plugs and carbs.
THe industry is expecting electric mowers to be 65% of the market in 10 years.
TICKET PRICE
Down here golf courses lease carts on a 4 year term
Why ?
because that is the average life of the batteries and a new battery pack is about 2/3 of the the replacement price of the entire cart
So the golf courses then sell the old carts with the knowledge that if only used one day a week as opposed to 6 times a day they will last the owners another 3 to 6 years , a bit longer if they swap the batteries around and replace the end two .
As for market expectations, Cal is apparently 20% of the entire US market for just about everything ( if not higher ) and ICE will be illegal in mowers from Jan 1 2025.
Once that happens the very passionate and equally emotional as they are ignorant "greens" will force the same in all of the costal mostly metropolitan states.
Farmers tend to be a lot better informed & far more pragmatic so a lot less emotional .
And if E-mowers had a mandated life of 10+ years and the retailers / makers were liable for the collection & disposal of the spent batteries and if not supplying the batteries for 10 year minimum then they would be made properly.
But we all know that will not happen
The motors will be snap together so they can not be repaired without breaking them.
The controllers will all have custom chips only available from the factory and will become unavilable in a couple of years
And most will be sourced from China / India or any other third world country with a sufficient over supply to cover warranty repairs after which it will be tough luck for the owner
#152
smhardesty
But that's a different story. It is not at all uncommon to see lawns in this town that are in the 5" to 8" range before mowing. Those are the people I have coming in. There is no way any of them would be satisfied with having to mow twice at different height settings. Then, I have a few farmers that mow acres as well as old barn lots. They also are not good prospects for a battery powered mower, at least the ones on the market currently. I'm sure a lot of people with really small lawns that mow them so often you can't tell whether they have just mowed or are getting ready to mow are completely satisfied with a battery powered mower. There just aren't as lot of those people in this town.
Maybe the next generation of battery powered mowers will be different and the short battery life, reduced power, and long charging times will be a thing of the past. I just don't see that as existing in the current crop of candidates, with a very few exceptions.
smhardesty
I think that would be my own, personal objection to having a battery powered lawn tractor. I never have to make two passes to mow my lawn, even if it has been rainy and the grass has reached heights of 5" or more. My Craftsman lanw tractor will handle it, even if I hacve to slow down just a tad. I know that would be a hindrance to a whole lot of my customers and future customers. Most of these people aren't exactly excited about mowing their lawns. In fact, my next door neighbor only mows his lawn whenI call the ordinance control officer to report the lawn has reached 15" in height. Yes, 15". I've been arguing with a few members of the city council about this ridiculous ordinance. I finally found out that they intended this one ordinance to apply to residential lawns as well as commercial properties on the outskirts of town. I've been begging them to separate the two and write a new ordinance for residential lawns with a more appropriate height restriction.Heavy grass takes two passes one high the over low in opposite direction.
But that's a different story. It is not at all uncommon to see lawns in this town that are in the 5" to 8" range before mowing. Those are the people I have coming in. There is no way any of them would be satisfied with having to mow twice at different height settings. Then, I have a few farmers that mow acres as well as old barn lots. They also are not good prospects for a battery powered mower, at least the ones on the market currently. I'm sure a lot of people with really small lawns that mow them so often you can't tell whether they have just mowed or are getting ready to mow are completely satisfied with a battery powered mower. There just aren't as lot of those people in this town.
Maybe the next generation of battery powered mowers will be different and the short battery life, reduced power, and long charging times will be a thing of the past. I just don't see that as existing in the current crop of candidates, with a very few exceptions.
#153
smhardesty
smhardesty
Have you missed the mandated end of gas powered OPE and automobiles that multiple governments have imposed? That is the very definition of having something rammed down our throats. In just a few short years you will have NO option to choose. I think that's what a big part of the resistance is about. California already has bans on gas powered OPE. Where are their options to choose?Nothing is getting shoved down our throats. EVERYONE has the option to choose.
#154
smhardesty
smhardesty
OK, guys. I have had my questions more than answered. It was a good discussion. There are definite pros and cons to either type of OPE. The bottom line for me, and the answer to my question, is that I will not be attempting to learn to repair any battery powered equipment. I'll just continue to service and repair good old, gas powered OPE.
I thank one and all for your responses.
I thank one and all for your responses.
#155
sgkent
sgkent
" EVERYONE has the option to choose." The legislators in this state said otherwise, it is mandatory next year. And now in 10 bay area counties (1.8 million homes) you will have to rip out your natural gas heating and go to electric house heating by 2027 too. That was just greenlighted by the BAAQMD this week. Ironically the state imports 30% - 40% of its electric power already. In 2019 - 2020 it was the largest importer of electric power of any state.Agreed. Not a popular stance but politics has nothing to do with this subject. Nothing is getting shoved down our throats. EVERYONE has the option to choose. At home, I mow with gas and I prefer electric (Ego) for trimming and for leaf blowing (Stihl). However, on my farm property, totally ICE. Electric *might* do the job but it would take much more time which, as a grandfather, can be occupied by more important things.
#156
smhardesty
smhardesty
OK. I have to respond to that. BINGO, BINGO, BINGO. That's exactly what I said a few posts back. This idea that we have options to choose isn't entirely true. Yes, I suppose we do have options. We can buy the EVs and battery powered OPE that the government is going to force on us, or we can elect to no longer drive a car/truck and no longer mow our own lawns. Those technically ARE options, just not very damned good ones in my opinion." EVERYONE has the option to choose." The legislators in this state said otherwise, it is mandatory next year. And now in 10 bay area counties (1.8 million homes) you will have to rip out your natural gas heating and go to electric house heating by 2027 too. That was just greenlighted by the BAAQMD this week. Ironically the state imports 30% - 40% of its electric power already. In 2019 - 2020 it was the largest importer of electric power of any state.
#157
sgkent
sgkent
regardless, we know some political donors are getting rich from these changes being forced on everyone. Sometimes I think the mafia runs the western world.
Anyone try the new TORO EV's?
Anyone try the new TORO EV's?
#158
T
Texas1step
T
Texas1step
Just moving our destruction of the Earth to other places. Looks great on the surface until you dig in and see all the extra pollution created in the mining and disposal after the batteries fail. Currently recycling the batteries costs more than the new batteries so everybody just piling them up.
If anybody even remembers the Space 1999 series. It supposedly happen that the discard waste exploded and sent out Moon out its orbit. But of right now the Russians are destroying a beautiful county called Ukraine just to make more room in their country. It now looks several nuclear bombs have gone off. Even they succeed what is left is waste dump.
And yes these battery powered equipment will hold us up on new parts or we have to just dump the machines and buy new. Sorta like our ink printers where the replacement ink cartridges cost as much as a new printer.
Yes, probably too political for a lawn mower forum.
You make a good point.
#159
B
bertsmobile1
We have a government enforced 12 month warranty period on everything that is sold retail.
Walmart has been lobbying hard to have that overturned so they can open up down here as has Harbour Freight
Up until the US - Aust free trade deal of 2005 cars sold in Australia had to have a guaranteed parts back up for 10 years which is again why a lot of Japanese & EU vehicles were sold here but very few US made ones .This was dropped to 5 years and then 3 years so we are now flooded with junk US SUV's of which quite a few spend more time in the repair shops than they do on the roads but idiots Aussies want to drive what they see on US TV & movies .
So a government can mandate minimum quality & durability levels if they wanted to.
Most EU governments do this
THE USA & UK do not because their political parties ( and thus the governments ) are beholden to large companies for donations to fund election campaigns and the charatible off shoots of big companies to provide the social services that the governments don't do when they become a hot media topic .
It is not capitalism but rather the failure to properly regulate capitalism that is the problem which has become more & more of a problem since the Nixon administration in the USA .
The idea that any market can self regulate is a myth because they will always regulate to favour the most wealthy.
The very basis of a capatlist market economy is also a myth as the foundation principle is "the market is fully informed" and that only happens on the stock market and only because failure to disclose brings down heavy penalties .
As for all other markets it is lies & secrets base upon the economic consequences of being found out verses the profits made today from say selling a car that would split the fuel tank & dump the fuel all over the exhaust if it was hit even lightly from the rear .
Or to keep it in EV context the chances of the battery pack self igniting and your chances of getting out of the vehicle should this happen .
B
bertsmobile1
Actually politics has everything to do with itAgreed. Not a popular stance but politics has nothing to do with this subject. Nothing is getting shoved down our throats. EVERYONE has the option to choose. At home, I mow with gas and I prefer electric (Ego) for trimming and for leaf blowing (Stihl). However, on my farm property, totally ICE. Electric *might* do the job but it would take much more time which, as a grandfather, can be occupied by more important things.
We have a government enforced 12 month warranty period on everything that is sold retail.
Walmart has been lobbying hard to have that overturned so they can open up down here as has Harbour Freight
Up until the US - Aust free trade deal of 2005 cars sold in Australia had to have a guaranteed parts back up for 10 years which is again why a lot of Japanese & EU vehicles were sold here but very few US made ones .This was dropped to 5 years and then 3 years so we are now flooded with junk US SUV's of which quite a few spend more time in the repair shops than they do on the roads but idiots Aussies want to drive what they see on US TV & movies .
So a government can mandate minimum quality & durability levels if they wanted to.
Most EU governments do this
THE USA & UK do not because their political parties ( and thus the governments ) are beholden to large companies for donations to fund election campaigns and the charatible off shoots of big companies to provide the social services that the governments don't do when they become a hot media topic .
It is not capitalism but rather the failure to properly regulate capitalism that is the problem which has become more & more of a problem since the Nixon administration in the USA .
The idea that any market can self regulate is a myth because they will always regulate to favour the most wealthy.
The very basis of a capatlist market economy is also a myth as the foundation principle is "the market is fully informed" and that only happens on the stock market and only because failure to disclose brings down heavy penalties .
As for all other markets it is lies & secrets base upon the economic consequences of being found out verses the profits made today from say selling a car that would split the fuel tank & dump the fuel all over the exhaust if it was hit even lightly from the rear .
Or to keep it in EV context the chances of the battery pack self igniting and your chances of getting out of the vehicle should this happen .
#161
T
Texas1step
T
Texas1step
I have been personally researching and looking for an electric motor to replace my Honda gcv200 motor which is making a loud knocking sound , and not getting any support from the warranty department.
#162
M
Muhammad
As one of the resident Californians here, I can tell you that according to a recent bill passed in July of 2022, gas powered OPE is scheduled to be banned by 2024. The state is suppose to come up with a plan to eradicate all of it, which would mean trade-in programs, buybacks, whatever.
Knowing what I know about equipment, I don't know how this is even possible. No more gas powered concrete saws? Rototillers? Post hole diggers? Jumping Jacks?
I have no idea what they think the ban will look like in 2024, but that's less than a year from now and if you figure they'll get a "by the end of 2024" timeline I figure that's just about when the state will have their plan ready, not the actual implementation of the ban. Or maybe push the ban forward a few more years.
It's very easy for lawmakers to make an altruistic decision while sitting in a meeting, but sometimes those decisions are so unrealistic that the only thing they can do is reverse course. It would be like the FAA banning fossil fuel airplanes by 2030 or something... it's just a joke to anybody lives in the real world. The same real world that knows Stihl or Husqvarna do not yet make a battery chainsaw that can handle a 36" bar. What happens when a redwood falls on a roadway?
I see it as a disconnection between lawmakers and the real world. I assume they have good intentions but a realistic plan should be a minimum standard before stuff gets signed into law.
M
Muhammad
Agreed. Not a popular stance but politics has nothing to do with this subject. Nothing is getting shoved down our throats. EVERYONE has the option to choose.
As one of the resident Californians here, I can tell you that according to a recent bill passed in July of 2022, gas powered OPE is scheduled to be banned by 2024. The state is suppose to come up with a plan to eradicate all of it, which would mean trade-in programs, buybacks, whatever.
Knowing what I know about equipment, I don't know how this is even possible. No more gas powered concrete saws? Rototillers? Post hole diggers? Jumping Jacks?
I have no idea what they think the ban will look like in 2024, but that's less than a year from now and if you figure they'll get a "by the end of 2024" timeline I figure that's just about when the state will have their plan ready, not the actual implementation of the ban. Or maybe push the ban forward a few more years.
It's very easy for lawmakers to make an altruistic decision while sitting in a meeting, but sometimes those decisions are so unrealistic that the only thing they can do is reverse course. It would be like the FAA banning fossil fuel airplanes by 2030 or something... it's just a joke to anybody lives in the real world. The same real world that knows Stihl or Husqvarna do not yet make a battery chainsaw that can handle a 36" bar. What happens when a redwood falls on a roadway?
I see it as a disconnection between lawmakers and the real world. I assume they have good intentions but a realistic plan should be a minimum standard before stuff gets signed into law.
#163
mechanizm
mechanizm
assume again....I assume they have good intentions
#164
G
Gord Baker
G
Gord Baker
Sure, go electric (battery) just don't park it anywhere you don't want it burnt down.. Cheers, Ray
Like Battery powered Drills, electric mowers will be good for 3/4 of your lawn.I'm betting you are 100% correct. I'll not start any political debate here, but I will simply say that our current leadership in the White House doesn't seem to have a grasp on reality. The only thing I'll use as evidence of that is the fact that they have stopped oil and natural gas exploration and new drilling in the US of A to "save the environment", but then turned right around and increased our import of crude from other countries. So, I'm guessing they think that the environment can only be destroyed by citizens of the US of A, or they think that the environment can be destroyed on one half of the planet while not affecting the other half. Brilliant thinking. LOL!
#165
H
hertfordnc
right, but you didn't answer the question. If all this is wrong what part do you find unfair or inconsistent with our Constitution or a free market economy?
Who exactly is your complaint with?
H
hertfordnc
Actually California is broke. They had a budget surplus last year because of their share of the trillions spent that is driving inflation, but now we are looking at a 30 Billion dollar deficit this next budget year, maybe more. People are feeling so confident in the wealthiest part of the state, they are pulling their money from banks forcing them to collapse. Some big investors have black listed the state as to future investments. SF City, with its own deficit problems is planning to pay out roughly 1 million dollars to anyone descended of a slave. They don't have the money, they are just going to pay it. I guess that is the new math. And I am trying to find out about the new TORO EV mowers because my ICE TORO mower that works wonderfully is a 2006 model. I am a little concerned that California is importing 30% - 40% of its electric power already. Not really sure where that is headed cause I will need some of it if I get that new EV TORO. I guess no one has one.
right, but you didn't answer the question. If all this is wrong what part do you find unfair or inconsistent with our Constitution or a free market economy?
Who exactly is your complaint with?
#166
H
hertfordnc
No, but you still have not answered the question?
Which part of this evolution is unconstitutional or not consistent with a free market?
H
hertfordnc
In case you have missed it, residents of your great state are leaving in droves. Now, tell me what part of your great democratic system is causing that.
California exodus continues, with L.A., San Francisco leading the way: 'Why are we here?'
Changes in work-life balance, remote work and more people quitting their jobs are driving greater numbers of residents out of the Golden State, a new report shows.www.latimes.com
What is causing Californians to leave California?
There are many reasons people are leaving, here are some.www.sbsun.com
There are a whole lot of people in this country that choose to use only the facts and figures that support their own, personal beliefs. Before you try using SOME of the facts, educate yourself on ALL of the facts. You specifically stated, "The people of California voted for people who would make these decisions. They're not protesting." A mass exodus would certainly qualify as a form of protest. Don't you
No, but you still have not answered the question?
Which part of this evolution is unconstitutional or not consistent with a free market?
#167
M
Muhammad
M
Muhammad
Can we try to keep this on topic?
Discussing battery powered equipment vs discussing the politics behind mandates, etc. Why are people bringing vaccines into this thread? Funny comments but off topic.
Discussing battery powered equipment vs discussing the politics behind mandates, etc. Why are people bringing vaccines into this thread? Funny comments but off topic.
#168
sgkent
sgkent
that is the problem. when people tell you what is wrong you ask another question, trying to corner them in a debate. Either you accept that people don't like your solution and work to find a better one, or you try to force your will on others. If you were serious about climate change you would demand ethanol be removed from the fuel, and you would demand trees be planted everywhere they could be, I came here to find someone who could tell me about a TORO EV. Talk to me about that please and don't try to con me into thinking EV is a real solution. I didn't answer any questions because there is no need to. You already know the answers. If California already has to import 30% to 40% of its power, wait until everything is EV. My natural gas bill has gone up 5X what it was 15 years ago and 3X what it was in 2020, while my consumption has gone down. I know who is scamming me. I am considering a new mower and it will either be EV or ICE. I'd like to hear from someone who has a TORO EV. I already know how well their ICE mowers work. I am also considering moving to a state that won't be bankrupt in 5 years where I can just keep my current mower.right, but you didn't answer the question. If all this is wrong what part do you find unfair or inconsistent with our Constitution or a free market economy?
Who exactly is your complaint with?
#169
B
bertsmobile1
One of the public lectures I went to was an economist ho was doing comparisons between European countries where the bulk of the properties are rented and countries where the bulk of the property are privately owned.
To account for different currencies & wages he did it on an hours worked basis.
The home owners came of substanially worse having spent near 3 times as much as the renters .
When it came to capital gains, again they look fantastic as a number but when boiled down into hours of wages not so good.
And of course the capital gains were of no use unless you sold up and moved to some where with a substantially lower income level , either in your own country or a third world country .
In Austria almost all of the houses are owned by banks and families have been renting the same property for several generations.
And if you think of it we work 1/2 to 1/3 of our lives to "Own" a plot that we can not take with us or in most countries even be buried in.
The longest continual surviving culture on the planet that has survived for at least 60,000 years intact & some say more than 80,000 years , has no personal land ownership in their culture.
And to be frankly honest any one who buys land in the USA or Australia in the most part is recieving stolen goods in most cases stolen at gunpoint or worse.
B
bertsmobile1
The "American Dream" is also the "Australian Dream" and both of them exist because there is no long term stable rentals available.absolutely... the argument isn't "no socialism" but how much socialism is needed to keep Capitalism in-check. It's currently out-of-control which is why all the bank failures and inflation. Blackrock and Vanguard are buying-up tens of thousands of single family homes to destroy the american dream of home ownership and turn us all into renters. https://www.foxnews.com/media/blackrock-investment-firms-killing-dream-home-ownership
One of the public lectures I went to was an economist ho was doing comparisons between European countries where the bulk of the properties are rented and countries where the bulk of the property are privately owned.
To account for different currencies & wages he did it on an hours worked basis.
The home owners came of substanially worse having spent near 3 times as much as the renters .
When it came to capital gains, again they look fantastic as a number but when boiled down into hours of wages not so good.
And of course the capital gains were of no use unless you sold up and moved to some where with a substantially lower income level , either in your own country or a third world country .
In Austria almost all of the houses are owned by banks and families have been renting the same property for several generations.
And if you think of it we work 1/2 to 1/3 of our lives to "Own" a plot that we can not take with us or in most countries even be buried in.
The longest continual surviving culture on the planet that has survived for at least 60,000 years intact & some say more than 80,000 years , has no personal land ownership in their culture.
And to be frankly honest any one who buys land in the USA or Australia in the most part is recieving stolen goods in most cases stolen at gunpoint or worse.
#170
Charlie8d
Charlie8d
GEEZ !
This is a LAWN MOWERS forum , not POLITICS.
This is a LAWN MOWERS forum , not POLITICS.
#171
sgkent
sgkent
Bert, the financial system worked so well in Europe that they had two world wars start there in the last 100 years, and are working on a third. I remember working with statistics many years ago, we can make them say about anything we want. Do you remember when "it will be transitory," was the answer if someone said they did not approve of the financial path the west was on because it would generate inflation? It is impossible to discuss EV anything without it turning political, because the majority of people here do not want to go that path for many reasons. Those who do want to go that path are entitled to make that decision. A good friend just bought an EGO EV mower and he loves it. I remember the first time I saw a Makita battery powered drill / screwdriver. Had to have one. Love it but guess what, I am now on about my 20th battery. All a company has to do to force a change is stop making the batteries. I also have a nice EV drill that was from my dad's estate. Its batteries sometimes are dead by the time the manufacturer sends a new one. When I want to get rid of the old batteries I have to drive 30 miles roundtrip to hazardous waste. My neighbors just throw them in the trash. Still waiting for someone to tell me about the TORO EV mowers.
#172
H
hertfordnc
H
hertfordnc
Ok, let's stick to the machines. Electricity is a better power source for most tools. That's AC or DC- who would prefer a gas powered compressor if they could have an electric one?
It's only when the job needs higher energy density in a portable form, like, say, a farm tractror, is liquid fuel a better option. For everything else, if the job can get done in the length of a battery charge, then electric is better. In the case of cordless tools. to keep the weight and bulk down they had to make the rest of the tool lighter and cheaper than it's ac powered equivalant, But most pros I know use cordless for everything they can.
Now, back to lawn mowers- they won't take over gas because people care about the environment, They'll take over gas because most people will find them better.
Most homeowners have no interest in knowing how their mower works or why they should use non-ethanol gas. They just want the lawn cut.
A properly built lithium powered garden tractor could mow two acres every day for ten years and just need new blades every so often.
Government mandates will speed this process along but really, nobody told the golf cart industry to give up gas carts- they just did because it was better. And that's with 400 lb of flooded battery. Now that it's only 120 lb of lithium for twice the range, golf cart makers would never look back.
As for the environment and human rights issues related ot lithium mining -
1. We don't care. people are exploited and environments are destroyed all over the world for the stuff we want and we don't care. We should, but we don't.
2. at this point lithium mining is a small industry globally. Perhaps when we are really dependant on it those people will have more leverage and get better treatment,
3. it is possible to make batteries that can be recycled, the industry just has not put much effort into it.
This change will be driven by capitalism, not ideology.
It's only when the job needs higher energy density in a portable form, like, say, a farm tractror, is liquid fuel a better option. For everything else, if the job can get done in the length of a battery charge, then electric is better. In the case of cordless tools. to keep the weight and bulk down they had to make the rest of the tool lighter and cheaper than it's ac powered equivalant, But most pros I know use cordless for everything they can.
Now, back to lawn mowers- they won't take over gas because people care about the environment, They'll take over gas because most people will find them better.
Most homeowners have no interest in knowing how their mower works or why they should use non-ethanol gas. They just want the lawn cut.
A properly built lithium powered garden tractor could mow two acres every day for ten years and just need new blades every so often.
Government mandates will speed this process along but really, nobody told the golf cart industry to give up gas carts- they just did because it was better. And that's with 400 lb of flooded battery. Now that it's only 120 lb of lithium for twice the range, golf cart makers would never look back.
As for the environment and human rights issues related ot lithium mining -
1. We don't care. people are exploited and environments are destroyed all over the world for the stuff we want and we don't care. We should, but we don't.
2. at this point lithium mining is a small industry globally. Perhaps when we are really dependant on it those people will have more leverage and get better treatment,
3. it is possible to make batteries that can be recycled, the industry just has not put much effort into it.
This change will be driven by capitalism, not ideology.
#173
H
hertfordnc
H
hertfordnc
I think the move to electric riding mowers will go like the shift to Z mowers- remember? 25 year ago, or so, they were only for professionals who needed the speed but then Toro came out with the first consumer grade model. Really expensive, only the rich neighbor had one. then every manufacturer put one out and now everyone has them (unless they have a lot of hills and ditches)
The obstacle to consumer grade Z mowers was that expensive tricky gear box. Riding mowers just use pulleys and a simple electric clutch- doesn't get any cheaper to manufacture. But the transmission on zero-turn requires some precision machining and twice as many linkages, it took a while to get the cost down to close to a conventional mower.
That's what will happen with E-power, except it will happen faster and come cheaper. They'll all use the same chinese components- motor, charger, controller, battery monitor. The western manufacturers will just offer different colors and cup holders.
I love capitalism
The obstacle to consumer grade Z mowers was that expensive tricky gear box. Riding mowers just use pulleys and a simple electric clutch- doesn't get any cheaper to manufacture. But the transmission on zero-turn requires some precision machining and twice as many linkages, it took a while to get the cost down to close to a conventional mower.
That's what will happen with E-power, except it will happen faster and come cheaper. They'll all use the same chinese components- motor, charger, controller, battery monitor. The western manufacturers will just offer different colors and cup holders.
I love capitalism
#174
H
hertfordnc
That would be a fair point but it turns out this whole thread was intended to debate politics and promote ideology. I didn't realize that at first but the OP (smhardesty) asked if people thought electric was a good idea and where he could get some resources, then he proceeded to carpet bomb the thread with political opinions that would suggest he has no actual interest in electric mower.
H
hertfordnc
that is the problem. when people tell you what is wrong you ask another question, trying to corner them in a debate. Either you accept that people don't like your solution and work to find a better one, or you try to force your will on others.
That would be a fair point but it turns out this whole thread was intended to debate politics and promote ideology. I didn't realize that at first but the OP (smhardesty) asked if people thought electric was a good idea and where he could get some resources, then he proceeded to carpet bomb the thread with political opinions that would suggest he has no actual interest in electric mower.
#175
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well threads do wander and some times it is good to let them do that
It gives one a feel for the mindset of people we deal with daily.
And as long as it can stay civil then there is no real harm done.
Societies flourish when one is able to freely express ones thoughts .
As for electric mowers & small yard tools they will eventually over take IC for the average home owner who is an occasional user.
It is a convienance thing and particularly for things like chainsaws they can be very convienant .
They should not be bought for "green" reasons because they actually increase net pollution.
All that happens is it gets shifted from your yard to other countries .
The very structure & chemistry of a Li battery makes them impossible to recycle and very dangerous if you try to do it then on top of that, virgin materials will be cheaper
So write it in your diary that in 5 to 10 years time there will be a spate of "unfortunate" fires in warehouses full of Li batteries as is currently happening with plastics & old tyres because most 3rd world countries will no longer take first world trash for recycling
And then there is the waste
I have a perfectly good 12V hammer drill, well made with real bearings that could not be used because the Ni-Cd batteries became unavailable .
So I pulled the battery pack apart and put a plug in there to run off a car battery.
Not re best bu it was only used for on site work so it is fine .
Li power will be short lived because there is SFA recoverable lithium on the planet
So it will be like the LP / 8-track / cassette / CD / USB / on line music fiasco and a never ending cycle of tossing out perfectly good tools because you can not get batteries for them any more
And this is the worry
Mower makers were not in a position to prevent you buying petrol but they can prevent you buying batteries
Oh and just so you know I do have shares in all 5 Australian Li mines so I will profit from the use of Li but I still believe it is the worst power source for anything bigger than a drill or small chainsaw.
It gives one a feel for the mindset of people we deal with daily.
And as long as it can stay civil then there is no real harm done.
Societies flourish when one is able to freely express ones thoughts .
As for electric mowers & small yard tools they will eventually over take IC for the average home owner who is an occasional user.
It is a convienance thing and particularly for things like chainsaws they can be very convienant .
They should not be bought for "green" reasons because they actually increase net pollution.
All that happens is it gets shifted from your yard to other countries .
The very structure & chemistry of a Li battery makes them impossible to recycle and very dangerous if you try to do it then on top of that, virgin materials will be cheaper
So write it in your diary that in 5 to 10 years time there will be a spate of "unfortunate" fires in warehouses full of Li batteries as is currently happening with plastics & old tyres because most 3rd world countries will no longer take first world trash for recycling
And then there is the waste
I have a perfectly good 12V hammer drill, well made with real bearings that could not be used because the Ni-Cd batteries became unavailable .
So I pulled the battery pack apart and put a plug in there to run off a car battery.
Not re best bu it was only used for on site work so it is fine .
Li power will be short lived because there is SFA recoverable lithium on the planet
So it will be like the LP / 8-track / cassette / CD / USB / on line music fiasco and a never ending cycle of tossing out perfectly good tools because you can not get batteries for them any more
And this is the worry
Mower makers were not in a position to prevent you buying petrol but they can prevent you buying batteries
Oh and just so you know I do have shares in all 5 Australian Li mines so I will profit from the use of Li but I still believe it is the worst power source for anything bigger than a drill or small chainsaw.
#177
H
hertfordnc
it's a learning curve. There were a lot of gasoline fires when we first started using cars. In the late 90s a woman was killed by a man she met on AOL. All internet stocks plummeted. Today most relationships begin online.
Protocols for storing lithium batteries will become normal.
Green ideology will not drive this as much as simple capitalism. Build a better mouse trap.
H
hertfordnc
Well threads do wander and some times it is good to let them do that
It gives one a feel for the mindset of people we deal with daily.
And as long as it can stay civil then there is no real harm done.
Societies flourish when one is able to freely express ones thoughts .
As for electric mowers & small yard tools they will eventually over take IC for the average home owner who is an occasional user.
It is a convienance thing and particularly for things like chainsaws they can be very convienant .
They should not be bought for "green" reasons because they actually increase net pollution.
All that happens is it gets shifted from your yard to other countries .
The very structure & chemistry of a Li battery makes them impossible to recycle and very dangerous if you try to do it then on top of that, virgin materials will be cheaper
So write it in your diary that in 5 to 10 years time there will be a spate of "unfortunate" fires in warehouses full of Li batteries as is currently happening with plastics & old tyres because most 3rd world countries will no longer take first world trash for recycling
And then there is the waste
I have a perfectly good 12V hammer drill, well made with real bearings that could not be used because the Ni-Cd batteries became unavailable .
So I pulled the battery pack apart and put a plug in there to run off a car battery.
Not re best bu it was only used for on site work so it is fine .
Li power will be short lived because there is SFA recoverable lithium on the planet
So it will be like the LP / 8-track / cassette / CD / USB / on line music fiasco and a never ending cycle of tossing out perfectly good tools because you can not get batteries for them any more
And this is the worry
Mower makers were not in a position to prevent you buying petrol but they can prevent you buying batteries
Oh and just so you know I do have shares in all 5 Australian Li mines so I will profit from the use of Li but I still believe it is the worst power source for anything bigger than a drill or small chainsaw.
it's a learning curve. There were a lot of gasoline fires when we first started using cars. In the late 90s a woman was killed by a man she met on AOL. All internet stocks plummeted. Today most relationships begin online.
Protocols for storing lithium batteries will become normal.
Green ideology will not drive this as much as simple capitalism. Build a better mouse trap.
#178
M
Muhammad
M
Muhammad
Lots of good comments in this thread so please don't ruin it with off topic stuff. We are usually very lenient with regards to the occasional opinions that accompany a post, but when the post is entirely off topic with no content related to the thread it will be removed.
#179
B
bertsmobile1
One colonel Isaac Newton Lewis who invented the machine gun that bears his name & shortened WWI by at least 5 years
"Success will come to the man who invents a more efficient way for European to kill each other"
Which was part of his speech at the opening of the new faory in Belgium to manufacture his new machine gun, and that was in 1912
Now you can go further back in time to 1885 to another American fire arms inventor one Hiram Maxim who also invented a machine gun that bears his name, the Maxium gun
He attributes it's invention to the comments of an associate
"Hang your electricity. If you want to make your fortune, invent something to help these fool Europeans kill each other more quickly!"
And no matter how far back you go Europeans have been trying to wipe their neighbours off the face of the planet .
And it was all about LAND OWNERSHIP & POWER .
Which is why societies like the native US Indian nations & native Australian nations managed to survive for hundreds of thousands of years because land was communally owned til the Europeans invaded ( out grandparents / great grand parents ) and forced the European land ownership upon the natives .
And lets no forget that even when they were thousands of miles from home the Europeans fought each other right up & down the the east coast and all through South America
And I believe that was well before banks were even invented .
And to show I have a mind, I agree with you about inflation.
It is an invention of those with substantial assets to ensure those assets do not depreciate over time and a weapon used to prevent those without assets acquiring them , it is immoral & totally unnecessary .
But the Golden rule comes into play
Those who have the Gold make the rules
which makes the phrase dear to most Americans hearts
"Government of the people , by the people, for the people" a total lie and the best example of mass brainwashing on the planet .
B
bertsmobile1
I will answer this theory with a line from a couple of AmericansBert, the financial system worked so well in Europe that they had two world wars start there in the last 100 years, and are working on a third. I remember working with statistics many years ago, we can make them say about anything we want. Do you remember when "it will be transitory," was the answer if someone said they did not approve of the financial path the west was on because it would generate inflation? It is impossible to discuss EV anything without it turning political, because the majority of people here do not want to go that path for many reasons. Those who do want to go that path are entitled to make that decision. A good friend just bought an EGO EV mower and he loves it. I remember the first time I saw a Makita battery powered drill / screwdriver. Had to have one. Love it but guess what, I am now on about my 20th battery. All a company has to do to force a change is stop making the batteries. I also have a nice EV drill that was from my dad's estate. Its batteries sometimes are dead by the time the manufacturer sends a new one. When I want to get rid of the old batteries I have to drive 30 miles roundtrip to hazardous waste. My neighbors just throw them in the trash. Still waiting for someone to tell me about the TORO EV mowers.
One colonel Isaac Newton Lewis who invented the machine gun that bears his name & shortened WWI by at least 5 years
"Success will come to the man who invents a more efficient way for European to kill each other"
Which was part of his speech at the opening of the new faory in Belgium to manufacture his new machine gun, and that was in 1912
Now you can go further back in time to 1885 to another American fire arms inventor one Hiram Maxim who also invented a machine gun that bears his name, the Maxium gun
He attributes it's invention to the comments of an associate
"Hang your electricity. If you want to make your fortune, invent something to help these fool Europeans kill each other more quickly!"
And no matter how far back you go Europeans have been trying to wipe their neighbours off the face of the planet .
And it was all about LAND OWNERSHIP & POWER .
Which is why societies like the native US Indian nations & native Australian nations managed to survive for hundreds of thousands of years because land was communally owned til the Europeans invaded ( out grandparents / great grand parents ) and forced the European land ownership upon the natives .
And lets no forget that even when they were thousands of miles from home the Europeans fought each other right up & down the the east coast and all through South America
And I believe that was well before banks were even invented .
And to show I have a mind, I agree with you about inflation.
It is an invention of those with substantial assets to ensure those assets do not depreciate over time and a weapon used to prevent those without assets acquiring them , it is immoral & totally unnecessary .
But the Golden rule comes into play
Those who have the Gold make the rules
which makes the phrase dear to most Americans hearts
"Government of the people , by the people, for the people" a total lie and the best example of mass brainwashing on the planet .
#180
mechanizm
mechanizm
how do you know this? here's your lithium battery production: https://www.facebook.com/reel/223833576672247/?s=single_unitA properly built lithium powered garden tractor could mow two acres every day for ten years and just need new blades every so often.
Attachments
#181
B
bertsmobile1
Remember capital has no conscious just a search for ever increasing profits .
As for Li protocols, how many people know that a Li-P battery can go critical at temperatures from as low as 50 C through to 85 C
And you can get to those temperatures on an ashphelt road and on a car dash sitting in the sun
As previously mentioned we have known the electron volt potential for all oxidation/reduction reactions for decades including Li .
A safe battery chemistry should be consistant & controlable
You can short out your car battery and all that will happen is the battery terminals will melt
Do the same to a Li battery and it will explode .
I am not against E- anything but Li power is the most pollution most dangerous battery you can make .
Funnly people think of the Pb batteries as being polluting and toxic but they are the only part on an automobile that can be recycled 100% and is profitable to recycle .
We have been making e-V powered by Pb batteries since WWII and they are used extensively indoors ( fork lifts & tow motors) plus in London & Amsterdam for inner city deliveries .
Every vehicle manufacturere has designed & built an E-V but they all abandoned the projects because there was no suitable battery technology to power them and there still isn't .
B
bertsmobile1
build a more profitable mouse trap the convince the public they need to buy it would be closer to the truthProtocols for storing lithium batteries will become normal.
Green ideology will not drive this as much as simple capitalism. Build a better mouse trap.
Remember capital has no conscious just a search for ever increasing profits .
As for Li protocols, how many people know that a Li-P battery can go critical at temperatures from as low as 50 C through to 85 C
And you can get to those temperatures on an ashphelt road and on a car dash sitting in the sun
As previously mentioned we have known the electron volt potential for all oxidation/reduction reactions for decades including Li .
A safe battery chemistry should be consistant & controlable
You can short out your car battery and all that will happen is the battery terminals will melt
Do the same to a Li battery and it will explode .
I am not against E- anything but Li power is the most pollution most dangerous battery you can make .
Funnly people think of the Pb batteries as being polluting and toxic but they are the only part on an automobile that can be recycled 100% and is profitable to recycle .
We have been making e-V powered by Pb batteries since WWII and they are used extensively indoors ( fork lifts & tow motors) plus in London & Amsterdam for inner city deliveries .
Every vehicle manufacturere has designed & built an E-V but they all abandoned the projects because there was no suitable battery technology to power them and there still isn't .
#182
H
hertfordnc
Meanwhile, we as a people do not care who is exploited to make our stuff. People can feel bad about it, but except for the occasional hollywood scandal over brand name sweat shops, we just don't care. We don't even care about our own people dying in coal mines.
Capitalism is a more powerful force than compassion.
H
hertfordnc
How i know this- it's just math. and the key phrase is "properly built" 200 lb of lithium can hold enough energy to move a lawn tractor around for a couple hours. And it can charge and discharge 4000 times.how do you know this? here's your lithium battery production: https://www.facebook.com/reel/223833576672247/?s=single_unit
Meanwhile, we as a people do not care who is exploited to make our stuff. People can feel bad about it, but except for the occasional hollywood scandal over brand name sweat shops, we just don't care. We don't even care about our own people dying in coal mines.
Capitalism is a more powerful force than compassion.
#183
H
hertfordnc
I think we agree. i think an electric mower will be a better mousetrap for most people. You think the opposite. You might be right. The problem is, no one will take your side. All the manufacturers are shifting to electric. No one is standing in the road say "gas is better, we will keep building gas mowers"
And their decision is probably driven more by profit margin than green ideology. They are currently making the cheapest gas engines ever, there is no place left to trim cost and increase margin. But electric motors and circuit boards, and the absence of any clutches and gears will make these really cheap to build and they will get cheaper to build every year for at lease a decade. but the prices will only fall a little. This is a really good time to be Husqvarna.
And the features they can add, some you will really love; stop the blade if it hits something hard- so it doesn't keep trying to turn rocks into pebbles. Or the ability to turn the blade backwards slowly when you run into an extension cord.
H
hertfordnc
build a more profitable mouse trap the convince the public they need to buy it would be closer to the truth
Remember capital has no conscious just a search for ever increasing profits .
I think we agree. i think an electric mower will be a better mousetrap for most people. You think the opposite. You might be right. The problem is, no one will take your side. All the manufacturers are shifting to electric. No one is standing in the road say "gas is better, we will keep building gas mowers"
And their decision is probably driven more by profit margin than green ideology. They are currently making the cheapest gas engines ever, there is no place left to trim cost and increase margin. But electric motors and circuit boards, and the absence of any clutches and gears will make these really cheap to build and they will get cheaper to build every year for at lease a decade. but the prices will only fall a little. This is a really good time to be Husqvarna.
And the features they can add, some you will really love; stop the blade if it hits something hard- so it doesn't keep trying to turn rocks into pebbles. Or the ability to turn the blade backwards slowly when you run into an extension cord.
#184
mechanizm
mechanizm
show your work...How i know this- it's just math.
#185
B
bertsmobile1
Now world Cobalt supplies were supposed to good till 2050 but that has been revised down to 2035 .
VW cancelled a complete range of cars because they could not get a guaranteed supply of Co for the predicted model life of the vehicle .
That particular pit is run by criminal / terrorist / religious fundamentialist ( pick one ) group .
There is also spiral stope mines there that collapse regularly plus Glencore has a big open cut pit that is about to be repowered by JCB hydrogen powered equipment because they can not stop the locals ( who are literally starving to death ) from stealing the diesel .
I won't go into detail here because that would be really getting way of topic but the DRC is a country cursed by rich natural resources that have been criminally exploited by Europeans.
You seem to be able to do some research and that includes assinations of leaders that other countries did not like .
Makes the UK involvement in India & China seem humane
In a previous life I was a foundry metallurgist .
I still subscribe to a lot of trade journals because I have an interest in minning , metallurgy & metals recycling so I don't need face book to tell me what is happening in the metals industry.
Most commercial Li deposits are from salt lake evaporation and there is talk of using the highly saline waste from desalination plants to produce Li as well because there is a lot in sea water but at uneconomic concentrations
And Cu deposits are becoming critical as well
They are about to start dredging nodules from the ocean floors inS E Asia which is estimated to have the potential of wiping out nearly all of the regions sea grass , thus fishing + a lot of coral reefs
B
bertsmobile1
Actually that is a cobalt mine in the DRC and the Cobalt is used in the engines both in the specialty steels ( which can not be recycled because of the cobalt and he steels use have to be so pure that you can not return them to their own alloy melt ) and in the magnetshow do you know this? here's your lithium battery production: https://www.facebook.com/reel/223833576672247/?s=single_unitView attachment 63685
Now world Cobalt supplies were supposed to good till 2050 but that has been revised down to 2035 .
VW cancelled a complete range of cars because they could not get a guaranteed supply of Co for the predicted model life of the vehicle .
That particular pit is run by criminal / terrorist / religious fundamentialist ( pick one ) group .
There is also spiral stope mines there that collapse regularly plus Glencore has a big open cut pit that is about to be repowered by JCB hydrogen powered equipment because they can not stop the locals ( who are literally starving to death ) from stealing the diesel .
I won't go into detail here because that would be really getting way of topic but the DRC is a country cursed by rich natural resources that have been criminally exploited by Europeans.
You seem to be able to do some research and that includes assinations of leaders that other countries did not like .
Makes the UK involvement in India & China seem humane
In a previous life I was a foundry metallurgist .
I still subscribe to a lot of trade journals because I have an interest in minning , metallurgy & metals recycling so I don't need face book to tell me what is happening in the metals industry.
Most commercial Li deposits are from salt lake evaporation and there is talk of using the highly saline waste from desalination plants to produce Li as well because there is a lot in sea water but at uneconomic concentrations
And Cu deposits are becoming critical as well
They are about to start dredging nodules from the ocean floors inS E Asia which is estimated to have the potential of wiping out nearly all of the regions sea grass , thus fishing + a lot of coral reefs
#186
H
hertfordnc
this is back of the napkin, i'm sure it's flawed but here goes:
120 lb of lifepo4 batteries is 400 amps at 12VDC, that's 4800 watts 750 watts per hp so we have about 6hp for one hour or 12 hp for 30 min. That's equivalent to about 20hp from a gas motor.
And the battery will go 4000 cycles according to the manufacturer and many many happy customers in the wind/solar/off grid community.
H
hertfordnc
If i do will you reply to the data and not change the subject?show your work...
this is back of the napkin, i'm sure it's flawed but here goes:
120 lb of lifepo4 batteries is 400 amps at 12VDC, that's 4800 watts 750 watts per hp so we have about 6hp for one hour or 12 hp for 30 min. That's equivalent to about 20hp from a gas motor.
And the battery will go 4000 cycles according to the manufacturer and many many happy customers in the wind/solar/off grid community.
#187
M
mcspeed
M
mcspeed
I might be considered a tree hugger, yes, I like the shade lumber and firewood trees provide. I also drive an HD diesel. I have four leaf blowers three of which are electric. The 56 V ego backpack blower is my favorite. Not quite as much power as my gas, backpack blower but it’s much quieter doesn’t stink and is easy to start.
I also just acquired a Milwaukee 18 V lawnmower. It is excellent. I really like how I can store it vertically and don’t have to winterize it or add fuel stabilizer.
I also just acquired a Milwaukee 18 V lawnmower. It is excellent. I really like how I can store it vertically and don’t have to winterize it or add fuel stabilizer.
#188
M
moseemo54
M
moseemo54
I've had several greenworks tools with (2) 2.0 amp hour batteries for over 5 yrs. now. Pole saw, blower and hedge trimmer. No problems at all. I'm quite suprised both batteries have lasted this long. Also all tools have given no problems. I'm a home owner with acreage that I maintain with no outside help. I also have 2 Stihl handheld gas blowers that I use also. When they won't start, I just grab the greenworks and continue work. Most of the time I don't want to stop work and get involved with troubleshooting, so that is my reason for wanting some battery operated tools. No concern about emissions, just saving time. Don't know how good the bigger machines like zero turns and the like would work, but as for the small stuff, I'm very impressed.
#189
smhardesty
smhardesty
I'll not bother to attempt to answer you. You just did what most liberal thinking individuals do. You tried to avoid the direct question posed to you that was in direct response to a question you, yourself, asked. Until you take the time to address my question, we are done. It's sad that people like you have to resort to goading another person into an argument that has NOTHING to do with my very first post where I asked a coupe of simple questions. You are out of line and I'd greatly appreciate if you refrained from making comments on my posts in the future.No, but you still have not answered the question?
Which part of this evolution is unconstitutional or not consistent with a free market?
#190
smhardesty
smhardesty
Thank you. This thread of mine has gotten a LONG way off the intended track. All I wanted to know was if the majority of repair shops intend to learn to repair battery powered OPE and if so, where they were getting their training. Those two questions have been very well answered by several members and I appreciate those that took the time to answer my original questions. It seems apparent that the majority will NOT be doing any repairs other than maybe sharpening the blades. That tells me everything I need to know. I have made a decision to stay completely away from any and all all battery powered pieces of outdoor equipment. It's settled as far as I'm concerned. Period.Can we try to keep this on topic?
#191
H
hertfordnc
But I'll go back and see if i can figure out what you're referring to.
H
hertfordnc
Nope, i will answer any question you or anyone asks, if you'll agree to answer one in return. There is no question in my politics i will not answer.I'll not bother to attempt to answer you. You just did what most liberal thinking individuals do. You tried to avoid the direct question posed to you that was in direct response to a question you, yourself, asked. Until you take the time to address my question, we are done. It's sad that people like you have to resort to goading another person into an argument that has NOTHING to do with my very first post where I asked a coupe of simple questions. You are out of line and I'd greatly appreciate if you refrained from making comments on my posts in the future.
But I'll go back and see if i can figure out what you're referring to.
#192
H
hertfordnc
I found it (I think) you asked "Now, tell me what part of your great democratic system is causing that" (referring to california population decline. First, california exodus is irrelevant to the conversation. the point was that california's 40 million customers means they have influence over industry.
As for why some are leaving, the reasons you would probably say, high taxes, urban problems, etc. But that demographic shift has nothing to do with this conversation.
Any more questions? Feel free to answer mine any time.
H
hertfordnc
I'll not bother to attempt to answer you. You just did what most liberal thinking individuals do. You tried to avoid the direct question posed to you that was in direct response to a question you, yourself, asked. Until you take the time to address my question, we are done. It's sad that people like you have to resort to goading another person into an argument that has NOTHING to do with my very first post where I asked a coupe of simple questions. You are out of line and I'd greatly appreciate if you refrained from making comments on my posts in the future.
I found it (I think) you asked "Now, tell me what part of your great democratic system is causing that" (referring to california population decline. First, california exodus is irrelevant to the conversation. the point was that california's 40 million customers means they have influence over industry.
As for why some are leaving, the reasons you would probably say, high taxes, urban problems, etc. But that demographic shift has nothing to do with this conversation.
Any more questions? Feel free to answer mine any time.