Is electric the way to go now?

[sgkent]

Bert, the financial system worked so well in Europe that they had two world wars start there in the last 100 years, and are working on a third. I remember working with statistics many years ago, we can make them say about anything we want. Do you remember when "it will be transitory," was the answer if someone said they did not approve of the financial path the west was on because it would generate inflation? It is impossible to discuss EV anything without it turning political, because the majority of people here do not want to go that path for many reasons. Those who do want to go that path are entitled to make that decision. A good friend just bought an EGO EV mower and he loves it. I remember the first time I saw a Makita battery powered drill / screwdriver. Had to have one. Love it but guess what, I am now on about my 20th battery. All a company has to do to force a change is stop making the batteries. I also have a nice EV drill that was from my dad's estate. Its batteries sometimes are dead by the time the manufacturer sends a new one. When I want to get rid of the old batteries I have to drive 30 miles roundtrip to hazardous waste. My neighbors just throw them in the trash. Still waiting for someone to tell me about the TORO EV mowers.

 

[hertfordnc]

Ok, let's stick to the machines. Electricity is a better power source for most tools. That's AC or DC- who would prefer a gas powered compressor if they could have an electric one?

It's only when the job needs higher energy density in a portable form, like, say, a farm tractror, is liquid fuel a better option. For everything else, if the job can get done in the length of a battery charge, then electric is better. In the case of cordless tools. to keep the weight and bulk down they had to make the rest of the tool lighter and cheaper than it's ac powered equivalant, But most pros I know use cordless for everything they can.


Now, back to lawn mowers- they won't take over gas because people care about the environment, They'll take over gas because most people will find them better.

Most homeowners have no interest in knowing how their mower works or why they should use non-ethanol gas. They just want the lawn cut.

A properly built lithium powered garden tractor could mow two acres every day for ten years and just need new blades every so often.

Government mandates will speed this process along but really, nobody told the golf cart industry to give up gas carts- they just did because it was better. And that's with 400 lb of flooded battery. Now that it's only 120 lb of lithium for twice the range, golf cart makers would never look back.

As for the environment and human rights issues related ot lithium mining -

1. We don't care. people are exploited and environments are destroyed all over the world for the stuff we want and we don't care. We should, but we don't.

2. at this point lithium mining is a small industry globally. Perhaps when we are really dependant on it those people will have more leverage and get better treatment,

3. it is possible to make batteries that can be recycled, the industry just has not put much effort into it.

This change will be driven by capitalism, not ideology.

 

[hertfordnc]

I think the move to electric riding mowers will go like the shift to Z mowers- remember? 25 year ago, or so, they were only for professionals who needed the speed but then Toro came out with the first consumer grade model. Really expensive, only the rich neighbor had one. then every manufacturer put one out and now everyone has them (unless they have a lot of hills and ditches)

The obstacle to consumer grade Z mowers was that expensive tricky gear box. Riding mowers just use pulleys and a simple electric clutch- doesn't get any cheaper to manufacture. But the transmission on zero-turn requires some precision machining and twice as many linkages, it took a while to get the cost down to close to a conventional mower.

That's what will happen with E-power, except it will happen faster and come cheaper. They'll all use the same chinese components- motor, charger, controller, battery monitor. The western manufacturers will just offer different colors and cup holders.

I love capitalism

 

[hertfordnc]

that is the problem. when people tell you what is wrong you ask another question, trying to corner them in a debate. Either you accept that people don't like your solution and work to find a better one, or you try to force your will on others.

That would be a fair point but it turns out this whole thread was intended to debate politics and promote ideology. I didn't realize that at first but the OP (smhardesty) asked if people thought electric was a good idea and where he could get some resources, then he proceeded to carpet bomb the thread with political opinions that would suggest he has no actual interest in electric mower.

​

 

[bertsmobile1]

Well threads do wander and some times it is good to let them do that
It gives one a feel for the mindset of people we deal with daily.
And as long as it can stay civil then there is no real harm done.
Societies flourish when one is able to freely express ones thoughts .
As for electric mowers & small yard tools they will eventually over take IC for the average home owner who is an occasional user.
It is a convienance thing and particularly for things like chainsaws they can be very convienant .
They should not be bought for "green" reasons because they actually increase net pollution.
All that happens is it gets shifted from your yard to other countries .
The very structure & chemistry of a Li battery makes them impossible to recycle and very dangerous if you try to do it then on top of that, virgin materials will be cheaper
So write it in your diary that in 5 to 10 years time there will be a spate of "unfortunate" fires in warehouses full of Li batteries as is currently happening with plastics & old tyres because most 3rd world countries will no longer take first world trash for recycling
And then there is the waste
I have a perfectly good 12V hammer drill, well made with real bearings that could not be used because the Ni-Cd batteries became unavailable .
So I pulled the battery pack apart and put a plug in there to run off a car battery.
Not re best bu it was only used for on site work so it is fine .
Li power will be short lived because there is SFA recoverable lithium on the planet
So it will be like the LP / 8-track / cassette / CD / USB / on line music fiasco and a never ending cycle of tossing out perfectly good tools because you can not get batteries for them any more
And this is the worry
Mower makers were not in a position to prevent you buying petrol but they can prevent you buying batteries
Oh and just so you know I do have shares in all 5 Australian Li mines so I will profit from the use of Li but I still believe it is the worst power source for anything bigger than a drill or small chainsaw.

 

[adam1991]

Anyone try the new TORO EV's?

yes.

And they're fantastic.

 

[hertfordnc]

Well threads do wander and some times it is good to let them do that
It gives one a feel for the mindset of people we deal with daily.
And as long as it can stay civil then there is no real harm done.
Societies flourish when one is able to freely express ones thoughts .
As for electric mowers & small yard tools they will eventually over take IC for the average home owner who is an occasional user.
It is a convienance thing and particularly for things like chainsaws they can be very convienant .
They should not be bought for "green" reasons because they actually increase net pollution.
All that happens is it gets shifted from your yard to other countries .
The very structure & chemistry of a Li battery makes them impossible to recycle and very dangerous if you try to do it then on top of that, virgin materials will be cheaper
So write it in your diary that in 5 to 10 years time there will be a spate of "unfortunate" fires in warehouses full of Li batteries as is currently happening with plastics & old tyres because most 3rd world countries will no longer take first world trash for recycling
And then there is the waste
I have a perfectly good 12V hammer drill, well made with real bearings that could not be used because the Ni-Cd batteries became unavailable .
So I pulled the battery pack apart and put a plug in there to run off a car battery.
Not re best bu it was only used for on site work so it is fine .
Li power will be short lived because there is SFA recoverable lithium on the planet
So it will be like the LP / 8-track / cassette / CD / USB / on line music fiasco and a never ending cycle of tossing out perfectly good tools because you can not get batteries for them any more
And this is the worry
Mower makers were not in a position to prevent you buying petrol but they can prevent you buying batteries
Oh and just so you know I do have shares in all 5 Australian Li mines so I will profit from the use of Li but I still believe it is the worst power source for anything bigger than a drill or small chainsaw.

it's a learning curve. There were a lot of gasoline fires when we first started using cars. In the late 90s a woman was killed by a man she met on AOL. All internet stocks plummeted. Today most relationships begin online.

Protocols for storing lithium batteries will become normal.

Green ideology will not drive this as much as simple capitalism. Build a better mouse trap.

 

[Muhammad]

Lots of good comments in this thread so please don't ruin it with off topic stuff. We are usually very lenient with regards to the occasional opinions that accompany a post, but when the post is entirely off topic with no content related to the thread it will be removed.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Bert, the financial system worked so well in Europe that they had two world wars start there in the last 100 years, and are working on a third. I remember working with statistics many years ago, we can make them say about anything we want. Do you remember when "it will be transitory," was the answer if someone said they did not approve of the financial path the west was on because it would generate inflation? It is impossible to discuss EV anything without it turning political, because the majority of people here do not want to go that path for many reasons. Those who do want to go that path are entitled to make that decision. A good friend just bought an EGO EV mower and he loves it. I remember the first time I saw a Makita battery powered drill / screwdriver. Had to have one. Love it but guess what, I am now on about my 20th battery. All a company has to do to force a change is stop making the batteries. I also have a nice EV drill that was from my dad's estate. Its batteries sometimes are dead by the time the manufacturer sends a new one. When I want to get rid of the old batteries I have to drive 30 miles roundtrip to hazardous waste. My neighbors just throw them in the trash. Still waiting for someone to tell me about the TORO EV mowers.

I will answer this theory with a line from a couple of Americans
One colonel Isaac Newton Lewis who invented the machine gun that bears his name & shortened WWI by at least 5 years
"Success will come to the man who invents a more efficient way for European to kill each other"
Which was part of his speech at the opening of the new faory in Belgium to manufacture his new machine gun, and that was in 1912
Now you can go further back in time to 1885 to another American fire arms inventor one Hiram Maxim who also invented a machine gun that bears his name, the Maxium gun
He attributes it's invention to the comments of an associate
"Hang your electricity. If you want to make your fortune, invent something to help these fool Europeans kill each other more quickly!"
And no matter how far back you go Europeans have been trying to wipe their neighbours off the face of the planet .
And it was all about LAND OWNERSHIP & POWER .
Which is why societies like the native US Indian nations & native Australian nations managed to survive for hundreds of thousands of years because land was communally owned til the Europeans invaded ( out grandparents / great grand parents ) and forced the European land ownership upon the natives .
And lets no forget that even when they were thousands of miles from home the Europeans fought each other right up & down the the east coast and all through South America
And I believe that was well before banks were even invented .

And to show I have a mind, I agree with you about inflation.
It is an invention of those with substantial assets to ensure those assets do not depreciate over time and a weapon used to prevent those without assets acquiring them , it is immoral & totally unnecessary .
But the Golden rule comes into play
Those who have the Gold make the rules
which makes the phrase dear to most Americans hearts
"Government of the people , by the people, for the people" a total lie and the best example of mass brainwashing on the planet .

 

[mechanizm]

A properly built lithium powered garden tractor could mow two acres every day for ten years and just need new blades every so often.

how do you know this? here's your lithium battery production: https://www.facebook.com/reel/223833576672247/?s=single_unit