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Hi, I have a Honda HRT216SDA mower that's served me well over the years. It recently cut out on me and wouldn't start. I squirted some starting fluid into the engine through the carb and it started right up, so I figured it must be the carb. I took the carb apart and cleaned it, reassembled, still no go. I then bought a new carb since they're only about $20 on ebay, but after attaching it, it still won't start. Fuel is flowing from tank to carb fine, it just doesn't seem to be getting from carb to engine. Any thoughts? Thanks

motaro38 said:

Hi, I have a Honda HRT216SDA mower that's served me well over the years. It recently cut out on me and wouldn't start. I squirted some starting fluid into the engine through the carb and it started right up, so I figured it must be the carb. I took the carb apart and cleaned it, reassembled, still no go. I then bought a new carb since they're only about $20 on ebay, but after attaching it, it still won't start. Fuel is flowing from tank to carb fine, it just doesn't seem to be getting from carb to engine. Any thoughts? Thanks

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Are you getting spark? Do a spark check first, as it may just need a spark plug.

If you are getting spark, was the replacement carb you installed genuine Honda, or some aftermarket company?

Did you get all the gaskets and guide plates installed properly?

Share your serial number with me and I can get you more service information:

Robert,

I have the same model Honda lawn mower as motaro38 and have a problem with a spark plug so perhaps you can enlighten me: The mower won't start so I checked the spark plug and the tip was black, so I bought a new one and put it in, worked fine, and it wouldn't start again so I took it out and it's black again, after just one mowing. What could cause this? I'm also noticing that the engine is revving up and down slightly but continuously in a 2 - 3 second cycle throughout mowing.

I did take out the carburetor and cleaned it, and put it back in place before replacing the spark plug; I also accidentally over poured the fuel, so could this have caused it? And regarding a replacement carburetor, would this be considered genuine:

16100 Z0L 853 BB62ZC Genuine Honda GCV160 Engines Carburetor Assembly New | eBay

Thanks!

Brkabrb

robert@honda said:

Are you getting spark? Do a spark check first, as it may just need a spark plug.

If you are getting spark, was the replacement carb you installed genuine Honda, or some aftermarket company?

Did you get all the gaskets and guide plates installed properly?

Share your serial number with me and I can get you more service information:

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brkabrkb said:

Robert,

I have the same model Honda lawn mower as motaro38 and have a problem with a spark plug so perhaps you can enlighten me:

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Need that serial number off the back of the mower deck to get you the correct service info...I also need it to confirm that is the correct part number for a replacement carburetor.

robert@honda said:

Need that serial number off the back of the mower deck to get you the correct service info...I also need it to confirm that is the correct part number for a replacement carburetor.

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Hi Robert,

Sorry, turns out it is a different Model: HRT 2162TDA, Serial No: MZCG-6971007.

Thanks!

brkabrkb said:

Hi Robert,

Sorry, turns out it is a different Model: HRT 2162TDA, Serial No: MZCG-6971007.

Thanks!

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The part number of the carb you bought on eBay is indeed for Honda GCV160 engine, but it is not the right one for your mower. Not saying that is what the issue may be, but you really should get the correct carb installed first. The correct Part Number is 16100-Z0L-023, list price is $15.08.

Google the part number to find a Honda Dealer selling it online, or use this link to find a Honda Dealer in your area:

Find A Honda Dealer

With the correct carb installed, do a spark test first, and confirm you are getting good spark.

Drain ALL the fuel from the tank and fill with fresh 86 octane regular unleaded.

Next, make sure the choke is working properly; it should fully close the choke butterfly when engaged, and fully open when the throttle is moved to FAST.

Check the air cleaner element for rips, tears or excessive dirt, clippings, debris.

Confirm all the gaskets and spacers are correctly installed with the carb, and all spring, linkage etc. are also correct.

Make sure the two long bolts that hold the carb, choke and air cleaner are secure (vacuum leak can cause surging).

Thanks for your response Robert. Sorry for this beginner question, but how does one go about doing a spark test?

robert@honda said:

The part number of the carb you bought on eBay is indeed for Honda GCV160 engine, but it is not the right one for your mower. Not saying that is what the issue may be, but you really should get the correct carb installed first. The correct Part Number is 16100-Z0L-023, list price is $15.08.

Google the part number to find a Honda Dealer selling it online, or use this link to find a Honda Dealer in your area:

Find A Honda Dealer

With the correct carb installed, do a spark test first, and confirm you are getting good spark.

Drain ALL the fuel from the tank and fill with fresh 86 octane regular unleaded.

Next, make sure the choke is working properly; it should fully close the choke butterfly when engaged, and fully open when the throttle is moved to FAST.

Check the air cleaner element for rips, tears or excessive dirt, clippings, debris.

Confirm all the gaskets and spacers are correctly installed with the carb, and all spring, linkage etc. are also correct.

Make sure the two long bolts that hold the carb, choke and air cleaner are secure (vacuum leak can cause surging).

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brkabrkb said:

Thanks for your response Robert. Sorry for this beginner question, but how does one go about doing a spark test?

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You need a helper, a shady outdoor spot to test, and a suitable socket/tool to remove the spark plug.

1. Disconnect the spark plug cap.
2. Remove the spark plug.
3. Reconnect the cap to the plug. Make sure there is no spilled fuel anywhere near the spark plug. Clean it up and allow to fully dry if there are any spills.
4. Look at the end of the spark plug; note the "L-shaped" tip, and the small nipple in the middle just above it.
5. Hold the spark plug cap and press the L-shaped tip or the threaded section of the plug against one of the four bolts on the valve cover so it's making good contact.
6. Have a helper engage the blade control lever, just like they were going to start the engine, then have them pull the starter cord a few times. Look for a blue/white spark to jump between the L-shaped tip and the nipple. It can be hard to see in direct sunlight, so get in some outdoor shade.

Please be aware when ever the pull-cord is pulled, the engine AND BLADES are spinning. Keeps hands and feet away from the mower deck to avoid injury.

No spark? Clean or replace the plug and re-test. Unless the plug is damaged, fouled, or heavily worn, you should get a good bright spark.

robert@honda said:

Are you getting spark? Do a spark check first, as it may just need a spark plug.

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I would assume so since when I sprayed starter fluid into the carb it fired right up. I'd think that this wouldn't be possible without a working spark plug.

robert@honda said:

If you are getting spark, was the replacement carb you installed genuine Honda, or some aftermarket company?

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No it was genuine.

robert@honda said:

Did you get all the gaskets and guide plates installed properly?

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Yeah, I looked the exploded view over real good and made sure everything went on exactly as pictured.

robert@honda said:

Share your serial number with me and I can get you more service informatio:

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I'll get it tomorrow for you, thx.

Starting with starting fluid is not necessarily a sign of spark. The fluid acts as a accelerant and even the weakest spark will ignight it.

Just pull the plug reconnect the disconnect plug to the boot hold the end of the plug (the spark side) to the engine block and turn the engine and see if you have spark

exotion said:

Starting with starting fluid is not necessarily a sign of spark. The fluid acts as a accelerant and even the weakest spark will ignight it.

Just pull the plug reconnect the disconnect plug to the boot hold the end of the plug (the spark side) to the engine block and turn the engine and see if you have spark

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I put the new plug in and pulled the cord but still no start. The serial is: MZCG 6183521 with a ZG at the far right.

motaro38 said:

I put the new plug in and pulled the cord but still no start. The serial is: MZCG 6183521 with a ZG at the far right.

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Okay, so did you do a spark test? Can you confirm you are getting spark?

Next, how old is the gasoline in the tank? Any fuel over 45 days old should be drained out of the tank and carburetor and refill the tank with fresh fuel.

Check the choke plate and make sure it is fully closed when the throttle lever is set to CHOKE. You'll need to remove the air cleaner cover and filter element to see the choke plate. Move the throttle to SLOW and confirm the choke plate opens up all the way.

Some photos of the carburetor area (showing the choke plate) and all the linkage might help me see better what is going on. What else can you tell me about the problem/history of the mower...

robert@honda said:

Okay, so did you do a spark test? Can you confirm you are getting spark?

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Yep, nice strong bright spark:

robert@honda said:

Next, how old is the gasoline in the tank? Any fuel over 45 days old should be drained out of the tank and carburetor and refill the tank with fresh fuel.

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It wasn't that old when it stopped working

robert@honda said:

Check the choke plate and make sure it is fully closed when the throttle lever is set to CHOKE. You'll need to remove the air cleaner cover and filter element to see the choke plate. Move the throttle to SLOW and confirm the choke plate opens up all the way.

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Yeah it does, tried starting it in both positions no go. Could smell gas too and float bowl is full so its gettin into carb just not to engine.

motaro38 said:

Could smell gas too and float bowl is full so its gettin into carb just not to engine.

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How about some photos? Would like to see close-up of the carb, choke, linkage etc.

Strongly suggest you drain out all the fuel and put in fresh. I had a pressure washer I "thought" had fresh fuel and it would not start, until the old fuel was drained and filled up with fresh...

robert@honda said:

How about some photos? Would like to see close-up of the carb, choke, linkage etc.

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Picture I used to reassemble:

I was checking your photos and noticed that the short rod on your choke butterfly control is in a different hole than mine is on my HRT216. I have attached a photo with the hole circled in red.

I mighta messed that up, I'll reassemble like yours and try again.

motaro38 said:

I mighta messed that up, I'll reassemble like yours and try again.

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Hopefully, that is all it is. Please let us know the outcome.

firedawgsatx said:

Hopefully, that is all it is. Please let us know the outcome.

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Unfortunately still won't start, but that's definitely the correct linkage, throttle works appropriately now. I have no idea why it's not starting. I guess I could try emptying all the fuel but it looks perfectly clean and clear. Is there anything else that could be causing this?

Also what is this tube for?



Is there some kind of backpressure system on these engines that pushes the fuel from the carb into engine? Perhaps its plugged? (I don't know lawnmowers well, but have taken apart 2 stroke engines/carbs before)

motaro38 said:

Also what is this tube for?

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That rubber tube is the breather tube and it fits on the nipple on the back of the air filter box. Have you made sure that fuel is still flowing from the fuel tank into the carburetor bowl? Make sure the fuel lines are clear. There is a filter screen inside the fuel tank where the fuel line connects. Make sure that screen is totally clear. Also, loosen the fuel tank cap to see if the engine will start. There is a vent hole in that cap that sometimes becomes clogged and prevents starting. It is always a good idea to clean out the fuel tank, the fuel tank screen and the fuel lines before installing a new carb or one that was just cleaned. If not, the smallest bit of crud from those locations I mentioned can cause the carb to quickly clog back up. The holes in the carb jets are so small it doesn't take much to re-clog them. I would definitely put fresh fuel in the tank. It can make a huge difference in starting the engine.

firedawgsatx said:

There is a filter screen inside the fuel tank where the fuel line connects. Make sure that screen is totally clear.

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Ok so I access this from inside the tank or outside of it?

The small screen is inside the tank next to the rear wall about midway. Find where the fuel line connects to the fuel tank. Now look down inside the tank with a flashlight and the brass colored screen is visible on the bottom of the tank right above the fuel tank outlet. I remove all of the fuel and fuel line and spray carb cleaner on the screen to clean it. Once in awhile I remove the fuel tank, dump the fuel and use Dawn dishwashing liquid and hot water to clean the inside of the tank and screen. I then use compressed air to blow out the tank and screen and let it completely dry in the sun before re-installing. I would suggest you add an in-line fuel filter between the fuel tank and fuel shut off valve. Very easy to do and it helps keep the carb clean.

firedawgsatx said:

The small screen is inside the tank next to the rear wall about midway. Find where the fuel line connects to the fuel tank. Now look down inside the tank with a flashlight and the brass colored screen is visible on the bottom of the tank right above the fuel tank outlet. I remove all of the fuel and fuel line and spray carb cleaner on the screen to clean it. Once in awhile I remove the fuel tank, dump the fuel and use Dawn dishwashing liquid and hot water to clean the inside of the tank and screen. I then use compressed air to blow out the tank and screen and let it completely dry in the sun before re-installing. I would suggest you add an in-line fuel filter between the fuel tank and fuel shut off valve. Very easy to do and it helps keep the carb clean.

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I will work on doing all this. I unscrewed the nut on the bottom of the carb and fuel came out so fuel is definitely getting to the carb.

motaro38 said:

I unscrewed the nut on the bottom of the carb and fuel came out so fuel is definitely getting to the carb.

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I once had a starting issue with one of my mowers. It turned out to be a plugged vent in the fuel cap. Another time I installed a brand new spark plug and after much frustration, found it to be defective right from the factory. Another troubleshooting technique for a no-start issue is to try starting the engine and quickly removing the spark plug. Is the spark plug wet? If so, that means you are getting fuel into the combustion chamber. If the plug is dry it means you have a fuel delivery problem. To confirm this on a COLD engine, remove the spark plug and carefully pour 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of fuel into the cylinder through the spark plug hole. Quickly re-install the plug and try to start the engine. Be extremely careful when using gasoline in this way and do not use on a hot engine. If engine does not sputter, ignition may be the problem. If it runs for a second or two, then quits, chances are the carb needs to be looked at again. It is rare, but possible, a new carb is defective. Double check the carb mounting bolts and gaskets are tight as you may have an air leak somewhere.

Thanks firedawg I'll do all that. Could you explain to me how the fuel is "pushed" from carb into the engine with these engines? Could there be something clogged there?

motaro38 said:

Thanks firedawg I'll do all that. Could you explain to me how the fuel is "pushed" from carb into the engine with these engines? Could there be something clogged there?

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Basically, the fuel is gravitu fed from the tank to the carb inlet. The carb bowl starts to fill up and as it fills it pushes the float upward. The float has the needle attached to it. When the bowl is full the float pushes the needle into the needle seat and the flow of fuel is shutoff from the tank. The choke controls the amount of air going into the carb. The main jet (the brass screw that you removed when you cleaned the carb) is how the fuel leaves the bowl and goes through the emulsifier tube (the brass tube with all of the tiny holes). The tiny holes in the emulsifier tube send fuel to the idle and hi-speed circuits (depending on the carburetor). The throttle controls the mixture of air and fuel required by the engine to properly operate. The main jet is the main culprit why the Honda carbs clog up and why sometimes all that is required is to drop the carb bowl, remove the main jet and run a small wire through the top hole and the two side holes. Of course, to clean it properly, the main jet and the emulsifier tube need to be removed and all holes need to have a small wire run through them and blown out with low pressure compressed air. I figured out a long time ago, it is much more cost and time efficient to purchase and install a new carb because of the low cost, Where a lot of people fail is they don't take the extra time and steps to clean out the fuel tank, the fuel screen, the fuel lines and the breather tube before installing the new carb. The "trash" that was in the tank or fuel lines and caused the clog in the first place go right back into the new or cleaned carb and the problem starts again right away. The other big problem is that people fail to get the carb gaskets in the right orientation. During carb installation you have to pay close attention to how all of the gasket holes line up, especially the air guide and the insulator. Failure to do causing "surging" also known as "hunting".

firedawgsatx said:

especially the air guide and the insulator. Failure to do causing "surging" also known as "hunting".

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The air guide being the thick plastic washer type thing that goes between the carb and the engine? Has the little carved out pathway/tunnel in it?

motaro38 said:

The air guide being the thick plastic washer type thing that goes between the carb and the engine? Has the little carved out pathway/tunnel in it?

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The air guide (#15 in attached diagram) is the metal plate with a gasket on either side. The insulator (#16) is the black plastic part with the pathway/tunnel carved out. It is important to get the tunnel in the correct orientation lined up with the hole in the air guide gasket. All of the holes need to line up as shown in the diagram. I have drawn a red line to the holes that need to line up. A lot of people get the air guide turned in the wrong direction or the insulator upside down and that is why the engine surges.

If you are getting a good flow of fuel from the tank to the carb and have good spark I would next look to see if your intake or exhaust valve is stuck. A stuck valve is a pretty common problem due to varnish on the valve stems from ethanol in the fuel. These engines can usually be freed up relatively easy.

firedawgsatx said:

If you are getting a good flow of fuel from the tank to the carb and have good spark I would next look to see if your intake or exhaust valve is stuck. A stuck valve is a pretty common problem due to varnish on the valve stems from ethanol in the fuel. These engines can usually be freed up relatively easy.

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Ok, can you give me a brief explanation on how to do this? Thanks

motaro38 said:

Ok, can you give me a brief explanation on how to do this? Thanks

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There are many approaches to check for and correct a sticky valve. The easiest method to check for a stuck intake valve is to remove the carburetor and shine a flashlight into the intake port. If it's sticky, it will look brownish inside the port and on the valve stem. Carb cleaner sprayed inside the port and on the stem will normally fix it. To check for a sticking exhaust valve remove the muffler and do the same procedure in the exhaust port. Spray inside the port and the exhaust valve stem and spring with carb cleaner. Remove the spark plug and gently turn the flywheel to see if the valves open and close. If you want to get a little more into it you can remove the valve cover (the part in the front with OHC on it) to expose the rocker arms, the valve springs and the ends of the valve stems. While you have the valve cover off you can check and adjust your valve lash as you should be adjusting your valve lash on a regular basis. There was a Honda bulletin I came across once that says to free a stuck valve, remove the rocker arm and seal. Then carefully heat the valve stem with a heat gun until the valve starts to move . Then oil the stem and reassemble. The heating process only takes 5 min. Be CAREFUL if you decide to do this!!!!! Don稚 forget that if you remove your valve cover you will need to use Honda Bond or another sealant on the cover. I use Permatex Ultra Grey and it works very well. There are some good videos on youtube that will help you if you search for adjusting valves on a Honda GCV160.

Way over complicated.. take the valve cover off and pull the cord you can easily see the valves moving. If they are not it is stuck. Make sure engine is off and push on the valve that is Stuck until its moving pull cord it should be moving. Throw some 2 cycle oil in gas a very very small amount and that'll lube it up

exotion said:

Way over complicated.. take the valve cover off and pull the cord you can easily see the valves moving. If they are not it is stuck. Make sure engine is off and push on the valve that is Stuck until its moving pull cord it should be moving. Throw some 2 cycle oil in gas a very very small amount and that'll lube it up

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Won't I need to them use the Permatex to reattach the valve cover?

Probably not if your careful taking it off the gasket should be fine... I have never had to replace or use a sealer with a lawn mower valve cover

exotion said:

Probably not if your careful taking it off the gasket should be fine... I have never had to replace or use a sealer with a lawn mower valve cover

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Took the 4 bolts off the valve cover but damn this thing doesn't wanna come off! That sealant is strong.

I removed the carburetor and shined a flashlight into the intake port, saw that little rod which was all black, moved the flywheel and the rod did move. I then removed the muffler(what a pain it was to get at that bottom bolt) and saw the same thing, blackened rod that moved when I turned flywheel.

Ok I got the valve cover off, and of course all the oil spilled out, which isn't a bad thing because I was due for an oil change anyway. Due to not knowing the names of all the parts behind the valve cover, I'll just call them the "insides", which looked really healthy. When I turned the flywheel, the valves moved in and out just fine. Must be a fuel delivery problem then? Here are some pics:

If they move then they are good. Engine needs fuel, compression, and spark to run. Need to test these three things and you will find your problem. Put valve cover back on tight but not to tight it is aluminum afterall. Pull spark plug out reconnect to the boot hold the spark plug to metal of the engine and pull starter or move flywheel. If you have spark put it back in. Next is compression this one requires a compression tester can get one at harbor freight for about 15$. Follow instructions if your engine is equipped with compression release it should read in the 60's if it doesn't have a release the compression should be above 100. If those are correct your problem lies in fuel. Disconnect tank empty it. Blow air into the outlet for the hose. Get a new hose and probably just replace carb. Make sure its connected correctly

It works, finally! I did as you all advised and took the tank off, washed it out good, then used low pressure air to clean out the filter. A few dead spiders came out. I let it dry out in the sun afterwards. I actually lost the fuel hose that went from the tank to the carb in the process of cleaning everything, so just ordered a new one on ebay for 5 bucks, probably not a bad thing to have a new hose anyway. I also replaced one of the gaskets since it was badly torn(one between carb and the metal plate that meshes with air filter housing). I took the blades off, too, and used a wire brush attachment on my drill to get all the dried grass/rust off, then gave them 3 coats of paint, then hand sharpened them with a flat file. After reassembly it started right up, cuts great.

The only problem now, though, is surging, which I think is being caused by one of the gaskets between carb and engine. They looked a little worn and in retrospect I should have replaced all of those gaskets not just one. I might order them and do that. What a pain replacing the carb is though, lining up all the holes in all the parts to get to the engine. Thanks for all your help everybody and if you have any ideas on what else might be causing the surging let me know.

motaro38 said:

What a pain replacing the carb is though, lining up all the holes in all the parts to get to the engine.

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Glad to hear you got it running again. Here is a link to a thread that has a great method to facilitate lining up the carb and all the gaskets: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/small-engine-mower-repair/15442-honda-gcv160-5-5hp.html I have used this method for years. I have attached a photo of the 6 x 83 threaded rod I keep in my tool box. As far as the surging it has been my experience that either all the holes in the gaskets are not lined up, one of the gaskets is leaking or the carb has some debris in one of the small carb jets. Since you replaced the carb before you cleaned the tank and filter in the tank and replaced the fuel line, there is a good possibility some debris entered the carb. I hope you decided to put an in-line filter in the fuel line also. This will help eliminate a lot of carb related problems.

That's a great tip firedawg, I'm gonna buy those threaded rods. Yeah I took apart the new carb and inspected it for debris but saw nothing. Could an air leak in the seal between valve cover and engine cause surging? I guess I'd know if there was a leak there since there'd be oil coming out. I'm just going to buy the other 3 carb gaskets so then I'll have all new gaskets, pretty sure one of the others was torn too.

On a side note, I often have to tune the high and low speed needles on my 2 stroke engine carbs. Do lawn mower carbs(specifically this Honda carb) ever have to be tuned? Thanks

Also when you tighten the two nuts on the air filter housing tighten then evenly like you would head bolts.

motaro38 said:

On a side note, I often have to tune the high and low speed needles on my 2 stroke engine carbs. Do lawn mower carbs(specifically this Honda carb) ever have to be tuned? Thanks

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On my Honda HRT216 I never have to touch the carb adjustments. It could be yours needs a slight tweak.

Instead of the gaskets, any of you guys ever try using just permatex gasket maker instead?

motaro38 said:

Instead of the gaskets, any of you guys ever try using just permatex gasket maker instead?

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Are you talking about using permatex instead of OEM carb gaskets? If so, I personally don't think that would be a good or practical idea. I do use Permatex Ultra Grey for the valve cover instead of Honda Bond.

Some of these gaskets have very small holes and valleys for air/fuel to travel through. Using a liquid based gasket maker would alter these precise holes and valleys. Even using a paper based gasket maker cannot simulate these.

Rly the gaskets are about $1.50 Ea or less.. takes maybe at max 5 days to get to your door and about 5 mins to use. Just stick with the oem

Ok, I got the new gasket installed, and it helped with some of the surging, but didn't fix the problem entirely. It's hard to explain, but when the throttle is moved just a tad away from choke it runs fine, no surging, but when I pull the throttle lever up more to the "fast" setting, it begins to surge. This is preventing me from getting full power out of the engine since it won't let me put it on the fast setting without surging. Any ideas what might be causing this? Thanks