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Honda mower rear wheels locked up
#1
C
CZILKO
C
CZILKO
I have a Honda 21" self propelled walk behind mower, Model # HRR 2168 VKA. Serial # MZCG8420252. I have owned this mower from new for less than 2 years.
I recently experienced the rear wheels locking up when trying to pull it back manually a little. I know to coast the mower forward for a small distance, and always have with self propelled mowers. I took the rear wheels off Saturday, disassembled the cam gears, thoroughly cleaned and greased everything, and reassembled. I mowed with after that and thought that had done the trick, only to find all of that didn't really do anything to improve the problem. I read many comments on the issues others have had with the "Smart Drive" system. I guess I will take it to an authorized repair shop since I think it's still under warranty. The belt is ok and the cable seems to be correctly adjusted, so not sure just what could be wrong. I should have never sold my Lawn Boy 19" mower.
Any suggestions? I thought a Honda would last forever, guess that's wrong nowadays.
I recently experienced the rear wheels locking up when trying to pull it back manually a little. I know to coast the mower forward for a small distance, and always have with self propelled mowers. I took the rear wheels off Saturday, disassembled the cam gears, thoroughly cleaned and greased everything, and reassembled. I mowed with after that and thought that had done the trick, only to find all of that didn't really do anything to improve the problem. I read many comments on the issues others have had with the "Smart Drive" system. I guess I will take it to an authorized repair shop since I think it's still under warranty. The belt is ok and the cable seems to be correctly adjusted, so not sure just what could be wrong. I should have never sold my Lawn Boy 19" mower.
Any suggestions? I thought a Honda would last forever, guess that's wrong nowadays.
#2
M
motaro38
M
motaro38
That happened to mine, wouldn't let me pull it backwards easily, and then I realized it was just the self-propelled handle not releasing fully. I think I just lubed it up
#3
robert@honda
That serial number does indeed have some factory warranty remaining, so the best bet is to have a Honda dealer inspect the mower and evaluate the problem. If it is determined to be a factory defect, repairs would be covered under warranty. You can use this link to find a Honda dealer in your area; be sure to check off LAWN MOWERS and SERVICE before entering your ZIP code:
Find A Honda Dealer
Be sure to fully communicate with the dealer what is or isn't covered. Some (not all) dealers may charge a diagnostic fee, if the problem is not covered under warranty. Please tell the dealer to contact your before any billable work is done on the mower.
Also, the mower was never registered with Honda by the original owner (you), so the warranty start date would be the date the mower was wholesaled by Honda to Home Depot. For this mower, that date is 4/25/2012, and with the 36 month warranty, it will expire on 4/25/2015. If you can provide the dealer with a proof-of-purchase date, they can reset the warranty start date to match your proof-of-purchase date, so bring it in with the mower to the dealer.
Finally, in case the dealer does not do it, please ask them to update the Honda database showing you as the current owner of the mower (just need name and mailing address). Honda asks for this in the unlikely event there is ever a product safety recall on the mower and needs to contact you.
robert@honda
I have a Honda 21" self propelled walk behind mower, Model # HRR 2168 VKA. Serial # MZCG8420252.
That serial number does indeed have some factory warranty remaining, so the best bet is to have a Honda dealer inspect the mower and evaluate the problem. If it is determined to be a factory defect, repairs would be covered under warranty. You can use this link to find a Honda dealer in your area; be sure to check off LAWN MOWERS and SERVICE before entering your ZIP code:
Find A Honda Dealer
Be sure to fully communicate with the dealer what is or isn't covered. Some (not all) dealers may charge a diagnostic fee, if the problem is not covered under warranty. Please tell the dealer to contact your before any billable work is done on the mower.
Also, the mower was never registered with Honda by the original owner (you), so the warranty start date would be the date the mower was wholesaled by Honda to Home Depot. For this mower, that date is 4/25/2012, and with the 36 month warranty, it will expire on 4/25/2015. If you can provide the dealer with a proof-of-purchase date, they can reset the warranty start date to match your proof-of-purchase date, so bring it in with the mower to the dealer.
Finally, in case the dealer does not do it, please ask them to update the Honda database showing you as the current owner of the mower (just need name and mailing address). Honda asks for this in the unlikely event there is ever a product safety recall on the mower and needs to contact you.
#4
K
kenichky
K
kenichky
Drained the gas and oil so I could turn the mower over and attack it from the underside. I took everything a part thinking this wasn't rocket science and everything looked fine. Everything worked asside from the rear wheels locking whenever the mower was pulled backward. The wheels turned forward with a click but as soon as I reversed direction they froze.We didn't fix a thing but as long as I had it a part I sharpened the blades and bought a new belt for $5.90. We were focused on the transmission, the smartdrive, but it made no sense. We went on the internet and that seemed to where everyone else was focusing. It didn't make sense.Then we noticed the rear wheel cut height adjustment was seized to the wheel bearing. When we turned the adjustment the axle turned. Didn't compute. So if it's locked in position, so is the wheel. Change the height adjustment and the axle turns ever so slightly. We removed the wheels, the gears, and axle from the bearings. Cleaned everything and lubed the bearing well before reassembling. NOTE: Do not beat on the axle ends to get the axel out of the bearings, they are soft and the ends will mushroom on you. If that happens you will not be able to reinstall the washers and gears. Use a soft mallet or wooded block to protect the axle end. Oh yeah, you need a snap ring removal tool to remove the gears and REMEMBER WHAT DIRECTION THE GEARS GO ON and don't lose the slot key or spring. If you're thinking you should be doing something with the transmission, forget that. Your problem is in the rear wheel bearings. So the fix is cleaning out and lubricating the rear wheel bearings. Once we got the mower put back together, we added gas and oil and shared a look of hopeful anticipation. The mower wheels pulled back with a bit of drag but at least the wheels were turning. I started it up and the sharp blades cut thru really high grass like butter. The drive moves faster than I can walk and with the motor running it rolls back easily. I think it now works better than when I first got it in the fall of 2011. Hope this helps anyone whose having a problem with their rear wheels seizing up when pulling the mower in reverse.
My model: HRR2168VKA
My model: HRR2168VKA
#5
S
sornstein2
S
sornstein2
I too have experienced the rear wheels locking up on my HRR2169VKA mower. So, after spending 3 hours disassembling the rear wheels and adjusters, greasing everything as suggested in the manual, I can now pull the mower backwards with minimal effort. The adjusters, with bushings, should have been designed with ball bearings, not bushings! The mower is still under warranty, but the dealer is an 1 1/2 hours away and who knows how long I would have to wait to get it back. So, that is why I decided to do the work myself
My aggravation, however, is with Honda. What a lousy design. This mower is used in the Outer Banks of NC (ie: very sandy soil) and I will assume that after mowing a few times I will be right back where I started with the rear wheels locking up! I am a very big fan of Honda products, but this issue/problem is hard to believe.
My question is: does anyone know of a retro-fit kit to replace the bushings with ball bearing hubs? Does Honda have a solution? I am aware that the soil conditions are causing my problem, however, I'm not alone. Maybe this mower should not be sold in the Outer Banks?
Thanks for allowing me to vent!
My aggravation, however, is with Honda. What a lousy design. This mower is used in the Outer Banks of NC (ie: very sandy soil) and I will assume that after mowing a few times I will be right back where I started with the rear wheels locking up! I am a very big fan of Honda products, but this issue/problem is hard to believe.
My question is: does anyone know of a retro-fit kit to replace the bushings with ball bearing hubs? Does Honda have a solution? I am aware that the soil conditions are causing my problem, however, I'm not alone. Maybe this mower should not be sold in the Outer Banks?
Thanks for allowing me to vent!
#6
P
Pumper54
P
Pumper54
I think someone left the door open and a spammer came in. Can the Moderators remove that post?
Tom
Tom
#7
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
bottom left hand corner is a triangle with ! in it.
Hit that then write Spam and the post name then send.
It sends an alert email to the moderators email.
You can do the same for advertising or other posts that you feel should not be here.
Hit that then write Spam and the post name then send.
It sends an alert email to the moderators email.
You can do the same for advertising or other posts that you feel should not be here.
#8
P
Pumper54
Thank you Sir,
Tom
P
Pumper54
bottom left hand corner is a triangle with ! in it.
Hit that then write Spam and the post name then send.
It sends an alert email to the moderators email.
You can do the same for advertising or other posts that you feel should not be here.
Thank you Sir,
Tom
#9
M
MowerMan190
M
MowerMan190
Why don't you mention the fact that the most likely cause is the rear drive axle cant turn back freely due to the incorrect bushing's they put on the Honda mowers that are doing this. Because that is the issue and Honda still has not owned up to this and it is not covered under warranty. Besides that many repair shops wont know that this is the likely issue because Honda never owned up to it and released a bulletin. So people are going to waste time and money bringing these mowers in for service only to find they cant be fixed or covered. You can also mention that if a the person is a bit handy and wrenches, he can take the back axle apart and take sand paper and go around both ends of the axle taking a slight bit of material off and re-lubricate everything, so those under sized bushings do not cause the mower to lock up when going in reverse anymore ever again.
We also know Honda has made all new back wheel height adjusters that have the correct sized bushings in them, which will fix this problem, however you could also just order those same improved bushings from a newer model Honda mower that fit on the axle of the mowers with this issue and it will correct the problem without having to spend the extra money to buy parts that aren't needed when all they need is the correct size bushing's.
Armed with that information everyone who is having this issue can fix it or explain what the problem is and have it fixed, which will make for a lot of happy honda customers who are using these mowers with this issue. Otherwise their left in the dark, become angry and frustrated and than will either get rid of the mower and buy a different brand.
The issue is the bushings are slightly to small and over time all the motion on that axle as well as moisture cause the axle to get a bit corroded or pitted and than the axle locks up on those bushings trying to pull back in reverse.
Honda should have just owned up to it, sent out the bulletin and either gave the option to send out the correct bushings to the homeowner, so they could fix it themselves or let the customer take it to dealers to have repaired and re-reimbursed the dealers. Considering how big Honda is and the profits they make every year, they could have done this and it would not have even put a dent in their profit margin's.
We also know Honda has made all new back wheel height adjusters that have the correct sized bushings in them, which will fix this problem, however you could also just order those same improved bushings from a newer model Honda mower that fit on the axle of the mowers with this issue and it will correct the problem without having to spend the extra money to buy parts that aren't needed when all they need is the correct size bushing's.
Armed with that information everyone who is having this issue can fix it or explain what the problem is and have it fixed, which will make for a lot of happy honda customers who are using these mowers with this issue. Otherwise their left in the dark, become angry and frustrated and than will either get rid of the mower and buy a different brand.
The issue is the bushings are slightly to small and over time all the motion on that axle as well as moisture cause the axle to get a bit corroded or pitted and than the axle locks up on those bushings trying to pull back in reverse.
Honda should have just owned up to it, sent out the bulletin and either gave the option to send out the correct bushings to the homeowner, so they could fix it themselves or let the customer take it to dealers to have repaired and re-reimbursed the dealers. Considering how big Honda is and the profits they make every year, they could have done this and it would not have even put a dent in their profit margin's.
#10
G
g4fne
G
g4fne
I can update on this ....
I had the updated adjuster assembly (including bushes) fitted to my Honda Izy HRG 536VK beginning of this month, unfortunately the wheels have started seizing on pull back again today ... so it seems it will need continual maintanance.
Can anyone confirm if this just affects the mowers with variable speed Smartmow function or does it also affect the single speed drive version ... (i also have the 16" size single speed version that doesnt seem to suffer the wheel seizing issue) as i am thinking of changing mine for single speed version if the problem doesnt exist on these models
I had the updated adjuster assembly (including bushes) fitted to my Honda Izy HRG 536VK beginning of this month, unfortunately the wheels have started seizing on pull back again today ... so it seems it will need continual maintanance.
Can anyone confirm if this just affects the mowers with variable speed Smartmow function or does it also affect the single speed drive version ... (i also have the 16" size single speed version that doesnt seem to suffer the wheel seizing issue) as i am thinking of changing mine for single speed version if the problem doesnt exist on these models
#11
M
MowerMan190
M
MowerMan190
I had a HRZ216 come thru that had the same problem. Thats the model that has front caster wheels and a 3 speeds trans. Wheels were locking up pulling back.
So its happening on a large range of models.
Best repair for that, is to sand the ends of the axles down a bit and put liquid wrench on to get everything moving again, than white lithuim grease and put it all back together. Thats how I got that one moving again.
So its happening on a large range of models.
Best repair for that, is to sand the ends of the axles down a bit and put liquid wrench on to get everything moving again, than white lithuim grease and put it all back together. Thats how I got that one moving again.
#12
J
Jerry60
I bought a HRR2169VKA in June of 2017. In December of 2018 the rear wheels started locking up when I pulled the mower backwards. Brought to the local honda service guy and explained the problem to him, indicating I thought it was probably the lousy bushings, and that the mower should still be under warranty. Showed him the sales receipt.
He calls me this morning and wants to give me an estimate to fix it. I told him, again, the mower is a year and a half old and should be under warranty. If he calls back and tells me that Honda does not want to cover the repair, then I have bought my last Honda.
J
Jerry60
Why don't you mention the fact that the most likely cause is the rear drive axle cant turn back freely due to the incorrect bushing's they put on the Honda mowers that are doing this. Because that is the issue and Honda still has not owned up to this and it is not covered under warranty. Besides that many repair shops wont know that this is the likely issue because Honda never owned up to it and released a bulletin. So people are going to waste time and money bringing these mowers in for service only to find they cant be fixed or covered. You can also mention that if a the person is a bit handy and wrenches, he can take the back axle apart and take sand paper and go around both ends of the axle taking a slight bit of material off and re-lubricate everything, so those under sized bushings do not cause the mower to lock up when going in reverse anymore ever again.
We also know Honda has made all new back wheel height adjusters that have the correct sized bushings in them, which will fix this problem, however you could also just order those same improved bushings from a newer model Honda mower that fit on the axle of the mowers with this issue and it will correct the problem without having to spend the extra money to buy parts that aren't needed when all they need is the correct size bushing's.
Armed with that information everyone who is having this issue can fix it or explain what the problem is and have it fixed, which will make for a lot of happy honda customers who are using these mowers with this issue. Otherwise their left in the dark, become angry and frustrated and than will either get rid of the mower and buy a different brand.
The issue is the bushings are slightly to small and over time all the motion on that axle as well as moisture cause the axle to get a bit corroded or pitted and than the axle locks up on those bushings trying to pull back in reverse.
Honda should have just owned up to it, sent out the bulletin and either gave the option to send out the correct bushings to the homeowner, so they could fix it themselves or let the customer take it to dealers to have repaired and re-reimbursed the dealers. Considering how big Honda is and the profits they make every year, they could have done this and it would not have even put a dent in their profit margin's.
I bought a HRR2169VKA in June of 2017. In December of 2018 the rear wheels started locking up when I pulled the mower backwards. Brought to the local honda service guy and explained the problem to him, indicating I thought it was probably the lousy bushings, and that the mower should still be under warranty. Showed him the sales receipt.
He calls me this morning and wants to give me an estimate to fix it. I told him, again, the mower is a year and a half old and should be under warranty. If he calls back and tells me that Honda does not want to cover the repair, then I have bought my last Honda.
#13
R
Roymg
R
Roymg
That slight drag from the rear wheels when pulling backwards is normal..I just finished replacing both adjusters and cleaning up the axels..and get same slight drag but the wheels do roll backwards.Drained the gas and oil so I could turn the mower over and attack it from the underside. I took everything a part thinking this wasn't rocket science and everything looked fine. Everything worked asside from the rear wheels locking whenever the mower was pulled backward. The wheels turned forward with a click but as soon as I reversed direction they froze.We didn't fix a thing but as long as I had it a part I sharpened the blades and bought a new belt for $5.90. We were focused on the transmission, the smartdrive, but it made no sense. We went on the internet and that seemed to where everyone else was focusing. It didn't make sense.Then we noticed the rear wheel cut height adjustment was seized to the wheel bearing. When we turned the adjustment the axle turned. Didn't compute. So if it's locked in position, so is the wheel. Change the height adjustment and the axle turns ever so slightly. We removed the wheels, the gears, and axle from the bearings. Cleaned everything and lubed the bearing well before reassembling. NOTE: Do not beat on the axle ends to get the axel out of the bearings, they are soft and the ends will mushroom on you. If that happens you will not be able to reinstall the washers and gears. Use a soft mallet or wooded block to protect the axle end. Oh yeah, you need a snap ring removal tool to remove the gears and REMEMBER WHAT DIRECTION THE GEARS GO ON and don't lose the slot key or spring. If you're thinking you should be doing something with the transmission, forget that. Your problem is in the rear wheel bearings. So the fix is cleaning out and lubricating the rear wheel bearings. Once we got the mower put back together, we added gas and oil and shared a look of hopeful anticipation. The mower wheels pulled back with a bit of drag but at least the wheels were turning. I started it up and the sharp blades cut thru really high grass like butter. The drive moves faster than I can walk and with the motor running it rolls back easily. I think it now works better than when I first got it in the fall of 2011. Hope this helps anyone whose having a problem with their rear wheels seizing up when pulling the mower in reverse.
My model: HRR2168VKA
#14
G
guyg
G
guyg
What am I missing? On my Honda "masterpiece," it seems that the axle doesn't normally turn when pulling the mower backwards. If everything is working correctly, when pulling the mower backwards, the woodruff key doesn't catch on the inside of the pinion gear because of the way the gear is built. It is designed so that the key only engages the pinion gear when the drive axle is turning forward. If all of that is correct, then shouldn't the rear wheels just rotate freely as long as the woodruff key AND the pinion gear are installed correctly? What I also don't understand is that this mower's rear wheels never did roll backwards from the day it was new. The mower originally belonged to my son and he agrees that is the case. So are they lemons right out of the box?
#15
B
Briantii
The drive axle spins when you pull it backwards. The pinion gears slip when you push it forward (the clicking). The drag pulling it backwards is primarily introduced from the bushings which have insufficient dust seals. In a dusty environment they’ll be sticking in 2-3 mows when the dust overwhelms the lubricants (or lack of) ability to continue to allow it to operate smoothly. You can make it better by cleaning the bushings and lubricating them. I’ve tried dry Teflon lube, grease, graphite, and wd40. Good old grease seems to last the longest, but cakes up badly when it’s done. Disassembly and cleaning takes a while and only lasts a 10-15 mowing sessions. As a last ditch effort before throwing it away in anger and getting a commercial grade Toro or Snapper, I installed zerk fittings on my adjusters. This will allow me to pump fresh grease into the bushings with a grease gun whenever I want. I actually think this will mostly solve this, but I just did it last night so no real world testing yet.
The design is flat out horrible and defective out of the box. If ever there was a case for a class action lawsuit this BS design and Honda’s tone deaf response to it certainly justifies it. No consumer grade Honda’s pull backwards for long if there is ANY dust. The only reason why not a ton of people complain is because the engine always starts and most people just focus on forward. It doesn’t make the design any less terrible.
B
Briantii
What am I missing? On my Honda "masterpiece," it seems that the axle doesn't normally turn when pulling the mower backwards. If everything is working correctly, when pulling the mower backwards, the woodruff key doesn't catch on the inside of the pinion gear because of the way the gear is built. It is designed so that the key only engages the pinion gear when the drive axle is turning forward. If all of that is correct, then shouldn't the rear wheels just rotate freely as long as the woodruff key AND the pinion gear are installed correctly? What I also don't understand is that this mower's rear wheels never did roll backwards from the day it was new. The mower originally belonged to my son and he agrees that is the case. So are they lemons right out of the box?
The drive axle spins when you pull it backwards. The pinion gears slip when you push it forward (the clicking). The drag pulling it backwards is primarily introduced from the bushings which have insufficient dust seals. In a dusty environment they’ll be sticking in 2-3 mows when the dust overwhelms the lubricants (or lack of) ability to continue to allow it to operate smoothly. You can make it better by cleaning the bushings and lubricating them. I’ve tried dry Teflon lube, grease, graphite, and wd40. Good old grease seems to last the longest, but cakes up badly when it’s done. Disassembly and cleaning takes a while and only lasts a 10-15 mowing sessions. As a last ditch effort before throwing it away in anger and getting a commercial grade Toro or Snapper, I installed zerk fittings on my adjusters. This will allow me to pump fresh grease into the bushings with a grease gun whenever I want. I actually think this will mostly solve this, but I just did it last night so no real world testing yet.
The design is flat out horrible and defective out of the box. If ever there was a case for a class action lawsuit this BS design and Honda’s tone deaf response to it certainly justifies it. No consumer grade Honda’s pull backwards for long if there is ANY dust. The only reason why not a ton of people complain is because the engine always starts and most people just focus on forward. It doesn’t make the design any less terrible.
#16
M
murraymower
M
murraymower
I have repaired three Honda's with similar problems in each case I found the gears were installed backwards. The problem did not reveal itself until there were 20 hours or so on the mowers when things begin to loosen up. Simple fix each time. UC-9iOjFuLSRw26Vh-GP7Nwg
#17
gotomow
Yes, yes they are. The main issue is that when the mower is pulled back the gearbox is engaged and that engagement causes friction thus it is hard to back up. Due to this design, Honda's will always be the hardest mower to pull back on. Another issue is that the axle is supported by bushings and these wear and over time the axle starts to rust and burs form where the bushing is and cause lock up. This is also why outside temperature and run time can effect the problem. As run time increases things heat up and cause decreased clearance between the axle and bushing resulting in more friction.
gotomow
What am I missing? On my Honda "masterpiece," it seems that the axle doesn't normally turn when pulling the mower backwards. If everything is working correctly, when pulling the mower backwards, the woodruff key doesn't catch on the inside of the pinion gear because of the way the gear is built. It is designed so that the key only engages the pinion gear when the drive axle is turning forward. If all of that is correct, then shouldn't the rear wheels just rotate freely as long as the woodruff key AND the pinion gear are installed correctly? What I also don't understand is that this mower's rear wheels never did roll backwards from the day it was new. The mower originally belonged to my son and he agrees that is the case. So are they lemons right out of the box?
Yes, yes they are. The main issue is that when the mower is pulled back the gearbox is engaged and that engagement causes friction thus it is hard to back up. Due to this design, Honda's will always be the hardest mower to pull back on. Another issue is that the axle is supported by bushings and these wear and over time the axle starts to rust and burs form where the bushing is and cause lock up. This is also why outside temperature and run time can effect the problem. As run time increases things heat up and cause decreased clearance between the axle and bushing resulting in more friction.
#18
B
Briantii
B
Briantii
Yep, and the main source of friction is the bushings.
So far having great results with the zerk fittings and keeping mine greased.
So far having great results with the zerk fittings and keeping mine greased.
#19
gotomow
Looks like a great fix. Now that I have the JD I'm using the Honda as a trimmer. Thinking about selling the Honda and getting a simple high wheel push mower to do the trimming.
gotomow
Yep, and the main source of friction is the bushings.
So far having great results with the zerk fittings and keeping mine greased.
View attachment 44132
Looks like a great fix. Now that I have the JD I'm using the Honda as a trimmer. Thinking about selling the Honda and getting a simple high wheel push mower to do the trimming.
#20
B
Briantii
Thanks, so far so good. Honda is really disappointing with this system. If you don’t have to deal with the Honda consumer self propelled I wouldn’t. I will say, if you can keep it lubed, it actually is pretty enjoyable to use... just without the zerks, you only get a few hours in dusty conditions until you have to take it apart again. It was truly designed for perfect yards with zero dust. Unfortunately I mow in the real world.
B
Briantii
Looks like a great fix. Now that I have the JD I'm using the Honda as a trimmer. Thinking about selling the Honda and getting a simple high wheel push mower to do the trimming.
Thanks, so far so good. Honda is really disappointing with this system. If you don’t have to deal with the Honda consumer self propelled I wouldn’t. I will say, if you can keep it lubed, it actually is pretty enjoyable to use... just without the zerks, you only get a few hours in dusty conditions until you have to take it apart again. It was truly designed for perfect yards with zero dust. Unfortunately I mow in the real world.