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Honda HRR Models: Rear Wheels Locking Up When Pulling Backwards

#1

robert@honda

robert@honda

Honda issued a Service Bulletin on this problem earlier this spring; the issue is the bushings may be undersized, causing increased friction between the bushing the the transmision's axle.

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The fix is to replace the adjuster arms, which have countermeasure bushings.

Step 1: First, verify your mower is in the affected range; if it is NOT, you have a different problem.
Affected model list is as follows:

HRR216K9VKA serial numbers MZCG-8670001-9933580
HRR216K9VLA serial numbers MZCG-8670001-9933580
HRR216K9VYA serial numbers MZCG-8670001-9933580

Step 2: Normal warranty applies; if your mower is still under warranty, is having a pull-back issue, and is in the above range, Honda will replace the adjusters under warranty. All Honda dealers are authorized to do this warranty repair, even if you didn't buy it from them. Beware that some dealers may offer more flexible repair schedules for those customer who did.

Find A Honda Dealer

If the dealer doesn't seem aware, tell him to look at Honda Power Equipment Lawn Mower Service Bulletin #107.

Step 3: If you're out of warranty, a dealer can still do the repair. Most will charge about 45 minutes to 1 hour of shop time for this job, but that's totally up to them. List price for each adjuster is $12.10.

Step 4: If you'd like to DIY, it's not a bad job. You need to remove the rear wheels and all the parts on the drive axle, which include a couple of circlips, so you may need to buy a circlip pliers. A bench is a big help to hold the mower in an easy-to-work-on position; note this requires the fuel and oil to be drained:

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I'd be happy to share some detailed instructions, just drop me a PM with your full email address.


#2

B

BillE507

Robert,

Thanx for posting this!

I've been having to "R & R" the rear wheel assembly about every 6-10 weeks to clean and re-lube (got it down to about 15-20 min a side). Even though I'm still under warranty, I'll just drop the $25 and do it my self to save time.

Some fool over fed the lawn and its mow every 3-4 days (daze?)!

Bill


#3

B

BillE507

Forgot to ask this last night...How much under size are the "old" bearings? Maybe a better way to say it, What is the internal diameter supposed to be?

I have access to a machine shop and their tools, I may just try and mill them out to the proper specs.

Thanx...

Bill


#4

robert@honda

robert@honda

BillE507 said:
Forgot to ask this last night...How much under size are the "old" bearings? Maybe a better way to say it, What is the internal diameter supposed to be?

I have access to a machine shop and their tools, I may just try and mill them out to the proper specs.

Thanx...

Bill
Click to expand...

Don't have that spec, sorry. All they tell me is some bushings were mfg. just a bit too small I.D.


#5

B

BillE507

robert@honda said:
Don't have that spec, sorry. All they tell me is some bushings were mfg. just a bit too small I.D.
Click to expand...

Thanx for looking, much appreciated.

I MAY just try and hone them out about .010" (max) and see it that just may help.

Thanx again...Bill


#6

primerbulb120

primerbulb120

robert@honda said:
Don't have that spec, sorry. All they tell me is some bushings were mfg. just a bit too small I.D.
Click to expand...

I checked my two HRRs, and both of them fall within the affected range. However, I ordered sets of replacement bushings on 9/9/2016 and installed them, and the issues returned a month later. Were the replacement bushings also undersized?


#7

robert@honda

robert@honda

primerbulb120 said:
I checked my two HRRs, and both of them fall within the affected range. However, I ordered sets of replacement bushings on 9/9/2016 and installed them, and the issues returned a month later. Were the replacement bushings also undersized?
Click to expand...

The bulletin says to replace the adjuster AND the bushing, not just the bushing. It it totally possible the dealer that sold you the loose bushings-only sold you some older ones (that may have been undersized). The part number for the bushing alone did not change, although old stock of bushings and adjusters/bushing assemblies were purged from Honda warehouses. Of course, your dealer may have sold you a set he had sitting on the self.

If you purchase the complete adjuster (using the part numbers in the bulletin) it will already have a properly fitted bushing installed. I'd strongly recommend you replace the adjuster/bushing assembly as outlined in the bulletin. A pair of new adjusters/bushing are about $22 list price. See the bulletin for the part numbers, and Google them to find a dealer selling online.


#8

D

de3

robert@honda said:
The bulletin says to replace the adjuster AND the bushing, not just the bushing. It it totally possible the dealer that sold you the loose bushings-only sold you some older ones (that may have been undersized). The part number for the bushing alone did not change, although old stock of bushings and adjusters/bushing assemblies were purged from Honda warehouses. Of course, your dealer may have sold you a set he had sitting on the self.

If you purchase the complete adjuster (using the part numbers in the bulletin) it will already have a properly fitted bushing installed. I'd strongly recommend you replace the adjuster/bushing assembly as outlined in the bulletin. A pair of new adjusters/bushing are about $22 list price. See the bulletin for the part numbers, and Google them to find a dealer selling online.
Click to expand...



what i noticed is that a person needs to take apart and clean the keyway and spring in the axle and make sure you can hear it click.....


#9

T

Themus

I too have the problem with my Honda mower locking up its back wheels when pulling backwards. I have in the not-to-distant past, replaced the bushings with the adjuster arms. Seemed to work a few times while cutting the yard and then right back at the same stubborn hard-to-pull backwards issue. Just recently I took both assemblies off, cleaned the entire gears, springs and assembly and added lubricant. Worked well for just one mowing job.

Weird thing is, I have noticed the wheels seem to roll backwards when sitting in the garage and I need to pull it out to mow. Or sometimes, but not always, when I empty the bagger of clippings.

I have almost sold it. Indeed I had it on Craigslist and couldn't get my asking price so I pulled it off. I have also seen a YouTube video where a post shows my problem exactly and what he suggested was to take it all apart and sand the shaft on both sides where the bushings slide.

Anyone really have this problem and get a long-term solution?

Attachments





#10

W

wcmiii

Hello: I have HRR216K9VLAA S/N-MZCG-9780304 purchased summer of 2016 from Home Depot. Summer of 2017 the rear wheels locked, and following the service bulletin, I had a local dealer fix it for no charge. June 9th, 2018 the rear wheels locked up again, so I took the mower to the same dealer. Dealer called today Monday June 11, 2018, said it was fixed and the cause of the wheel lock, was due to "rust on the diag Drive System." I always clean out the undercarriage after each mowing with water hose and scrubber. After the engine has cooled, I turn the mower over on the right side, cut fuel line off, and I am very careful to not get water on the filter, or engine. I then use the water hose and scrubber to clean the under carriage.

I've mowed lawns for many decades and I have never heard of RUST ON A DRIVE SYSTEM causing the rear wheels to lock up. I have read the recall bulletin and watched a YouTube video on sanding the shaft. Anyway, for $32.00 the dealer removed the rust, and I was told to not get water in the drive system and to use a air blower not hose or pressure washer, which I never have used, to clean the under carriage.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!


#11

Mow'N Weeds

Mow'N Weeds

I have a question I'm hoping someone can answer for me, derived from this exact topic (rear wheels locking up on an HRR216VKR)..
- How do you tell what year HRR216 you have? I'd assume it's in the model #, but can someone confirm this for me?
As an example.. I have an HRR2169VKR. Does that indicate anything? This just happened to me with this model, and the serial # falls within the ones Robert listed, so I'm trying to determine if mine would be under this service bulletin as warranty work or not, and just in general I'd like to know how to tell the years of these.
Thanks!


#12

gotomow

gotomow

Mow'N Weeds said:
I have a question I'm hoping someone can answer for me, derived from this exact topic (rear wheels locking up on an HRR216VKR)..
- How do you tell what year HRR216 you have? I'd assume it's in the model #, but can someone confirm this for me?
As an example.. I have an HRR2169VKR. Does that indicate anything? This just happened to me with this model, and the serial # falls within the ones Robert listed, so I'm trying to determine if mine would be under this service bulletin as warranty work or not, and just in general I'd like to know how to tell the years of these.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

HHR's are covered under Honda's 3 year warranty. You would need to look at your receipt for the date of purchase. Here's how Honda lists it on their site:
To Obtain Warranty Service:
"You must, at your expense, take the Honda Power Equipment product, accessory, replacement part, apparel, or the power equipment on which the accessory or replacement part is installed, and proof of purchase to any Honda Power Equipment dealer in the United States, Puerto Rico, or the U.S. Virgin Islands who is authorized to sell and/or
service that product, during the dealer’s normal business hours. To locate a dealer near you, visit our web site at http://powerequipment.honda.com and click on Find a Dealer.
If you are unable to obtain warranty service or are dissatisfied with the warranty service you receive, contact the owner of the dealership involved;
normally this will resolve the problem."

Honda charges $12.10 for each adjuster, so a total of $24.20. Each bushing is $.91 with 4 required so a total of $3.64 per machine. That's more than $20 per machine, at retail of course. Thus saving Honda quite a bit of coinage per how many hundred of thousand/millions of machines manufactured.

What's interesting is that my HRX217 started almost locking up when I tried to pull it back. That's when I began to search the web for answers. I found Dave's video on his HHR and I wondered if the same thing was happening to my machine. Here is Dave's video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubnpTirPBu4
On my machine I thought I would first try spraying the bushing area with Motorkote spray lube. I've had great success with Motorkote spray in the past so I thought what the heck. I removed the wheels and the pinion gears so I could get right at the bushing. On the inside I removed the circlip and sprayed there also. I tipped the machine on each side so the Motorkote could soak well into the bushings. The results were amazing. Now I could easily reverse my mower. Not only that, in forward my machine was moving much faster at a lower speed setting.
Now you may think, "what do I care I don't reverse my machine at all". The problem is that over time your gearbox has to work harder and harder to overcome the increased friction from the shaft on the bushings. Could that lead to premature gearbox failure? Hmmm who knows, but I could see it happening.


#13

H

Horsehockey

Link to Dave's video didn't work for me for some reason. Alternative link or search ideas? Thank you.


#14

Mow'N Weeds

Mow'N Weeds

I swung into my local dealer the other day and mentioned this service bulletin (though I didn't have the bulletin # handy with me) and tried to get somewhere with this.
He couldn't find anything pertaining to wheels locking up while pulling backwards. Only thing I got was I found out the mower in question was on a showroom floor in 2014 and was told the only way to figure out the year was to run the serial # in their system. Either way, I'm not the original owner, I don't have a purchase receipt, the mower was never registered.. guess who's SOL for a no-charge dealer fix, but of course they could look at it for me if I wanted. I'm into this thing for too much as it is and selling it. Actually I have it sold, contingent on getting this issue fixed. Now I gotta deal with this myself to attempt to not lose money on it. Sticking another $24.20 into it will put me pretty close to being in the red vs what the used market value is on it. That's assuming I'm not even paying myself for time into it.

I messed around with it last night and on mine the bushings don't really seem to be hanging up on the shaft, from what I can tell at least. There's a short plastic 'bushing' I guess you could call it, that I'm able to pry down onto the shaft from the bottom portion of the shaft (so from the under-deck side), is this the bushing thought to be the ones associated with the wheels locking up? I got one wheel & gear off, woodruff seems fine, and I'm at the point of trying to get the bottom snap ring off, the one on the flip side didn't come off so nicely. The very first one did (outer most on the shaft) and that was the only one that did. At that point penetratant was put on both sides of the shaft at both wheels and after a bit, they were able to move backwards again, but still with too much resistance, one maybe more so than the other. Something doesn't sound right when rotating them backwards. Not sure what the hangup on mine is yet. Planning on digging deeper tonight yet, just what I wanna do on my Friday evening. I actually called a buddy and asked 'em if he wants to come over and help me wreck a $400 2014 Honda mower. Wish me luck! :laughing:

That last vid link doesn't work for me either. Just winds up going back to a non-specific youtube link.


#15

gotomow

gotomow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubnpTirPBu4
Try this link^^^^


#16

gotomow

gotomow

You have to remove both the outer circlip, (right at the bushing) and the inner circlip to get the adjuster off so you check the drive shaft. If your's is rusty it will need sanding to make it easier to pull backwards. Kind of crazy to think that the shaft rusts so easily and that your expensive Honda mower is dependent on four .91 cent plastic bushings to make it run smooth.


#17

Mow'N Weeds

Mow'N Weeds

That link works. I've watched that one previously, good vid.. outside of I wish it was more detailed, like step by step. It would take at least twice as long to do the job understandably trying to document each little step, but it would have helped me at least a good bit more. But at least it gave me an idea of what I'm doing/looking for/trying to accomplish.

At any rate.. that was fun! Those little snap rings/circlips are a bit of a pain to deal with. One of 'em took flight, ricocheted off a couple things in the garage - never to be seen again :rolleyes:. My 'bushings' were a little different than what I thought they'd be going off what I've read and watched. For some reason.. mine were a 2-pc design. At first I thought one had ripped or something, but that wasn't the case. That little part of a bushing I was pulling out on the underside of shaft was more like a 'hat'. Then there was a space between that and the other end of the bushing that just seemed to be a void space filled with grease and whatever else gunk got in there. The other longer part of the bushing wasn't interested in coming out of the bracket at all. Didn't look like it needed to for that matter either from what I could tell. So, everything was taken apart, without removing the axle from the deck (which was probably only one more step away), cleaned of debris and old grease, then re-greased with blue marine grease. My axle ends where these bushings ride on weren't super corroded, but they got touched up anyway since we were down that far. Got that whole assy back together, wheels back on, flipped 'er over and set 'er down to the ground to see if that was the issue, and it It appears to be a successful adventure. Pulls back now with little effort, with that little bit of resistance per design evidently. I'm still not quite sure what was hanging them up from freewheeling backwards other than old grease and/or maybe lack of grease. From what I could tell it almost looked like a white lithium grease was the old grease, be it from the factory or a possible previous person servicing I'm not sure. There wasn't much white left to it, it looked mostly like dirt/graphite color but I found a little bit of white left while cleaning. Hopefully this 'fix' will last a good while for the guy buying this. At this point I'll say he's gonna be pretty happy with his purchase. I messed around with this 'till late last night so there's small stuff to put back together later today, like the little bolts & matching retainers that hold the plastic part of the under-deck in, which are a pain to deal with too. All in all, an interesting adventure.


#18

D

DUSlider

Hello,

I have an HRR216K5VKA. My issue is with the wheels not rolling while pulling the mower backwards. I removed everything down to the axel on both sides. The right side wheel height adjuster was easily removed. The left I had to use an axle puller to remove, which left the plastic bearing on the axle, stuck on there really good.

I saw the service bulletin released for the K9. Curiously, I checked peparts.honda.com and the height adjusters part numbers for both the K5 and K9 are identical.

It seems this issue may have been around for awhile and Honda didn't do anything about it until the K9 series was released? Has anyone with a model older than the K9 been able to get Honda to goodwill the repair or parts? I think I'm just going to order new wheel height adjusters with hopefully revised bearings instead of messing with the old bearings as I'm not sure I can get the bearing out of the right height adjuster to replace it with the new one.

Also, what type (if any) of grease are you using inside the wheel height adjuster for the bearings? I was doing some research and (I can't remember where) I saw someone had used Molykote.


#19

gotomow

gotomow

I used Motorkote spray because I wanted to mow right away and didn't want to fully disassemble. The Motorkote worked it's way into the shaft good enough for right now. When I have enough time to get everything apart I'll probably use bike chain lube or garage door lube and see how that works. Grease tends to hold dirt and dust in suspension so that's why I'm going with the lubes. However, anything is better than nothing so use what you've got.


#20

D

DUSlider

gotomow said:
I used Motorkote spray because I wanted to mow right away and didn't want to fully disassemble. The Motorkote worked it's way into the shaft good enough for right now. When I have enough time to get everything apart I'll probably use bike chain lube or garage door lube and see how that works. Grease tends to hold dirt and dust in suspension so that's why I'm going with the lubes. However, anything is better than nothing so use what you've got.
Click to expand...

I got mine all apart and re-assembled with new wheel height adjusters and bearings. I sanded down the axle but to be honest I don't think it really needed it. I think what is happening is the rubber dust seal is breaking down letting gunk in and possible parts of the seal inside the bearing, freezing it up. The right side was actually fine, it was the left side, closest to the transmission. It also had some odd wear on the plastic dust shield for the hole that the transmission axle goes through so I replaced that as well. (Hole was worn out and elongated).

Getting the spring back on the transmission was a PITA.

I've had this mower for 10 years at least. If I don't have to do this for another 5 I'll be happy.

I used some DuPont teflon non-stick dry-film lubricant on the axle where the bearing was contacting the axle and some multi purpose grease for the gear/key.


#21

R

Roymg

I can't take ownership for this fix and I can't find where I got this article from to be able to give credit to the originator. But I tried the fix he suggested and it worked for me. Why I'm not sure, but heck I was willing to try something to take care of the problem. I have a HRR216K9VKA Honda mower. I got my thrust washers from ACE and even though they were not an exact match, they worked. So far I cut my yard only once with this fix and ran this mower for an hour and one half, with good results.



14 year old HRT216 would no longer backup (rear wheels would not release when the drive handle was released, and the wheels just "locked". My remedy below is uniquely different from any others I have seen on this subject. Honda Mower Rear wheel xmission has a unique design that uses Thrust Washers to help release the drive from the rear wheels so that the operator can easily back up the mower when the Drive Handle is released.
As the machine ages, these washers lose their load Thrust and the rear wheels will not properly release to enable an easy back up. This makes the mower very hard to operate due to its "braking weight in reverse". A Simple Fix in lieu of replacing the entire transmission ($175 or so) and repair bill of $175 (total xmission repair is very difficult and time consuming) is to place two thrust washers (Pt # 90505-VG3-000) (13 x 27mm) in series and add one more spacing wheel washer (Pt # 90455-VA2-000 (13 x 27 x 1mm) to each Rear Wheel Assembly instead of just one thrust washer and spacer washer.
These are items #16 and #19 in Jacks-Parts-Lookup/Model-Diagram. Adding these washers "in series" will double the Thrust Force and aid the wheels to release. I used the existing Thrust Washer and Spacing Washer from the existing mower and added one Thrust Washer and One more Spacing Washer to each Wheel Assembly and got excellent results. Put the Spacing Plain Washers on each end of the Series Assembly of two Thrust Washers (i.e. Top and Bottom Sandwich with Thrust Washers "back to back" as shown in the Solon diagram referenced below: **. Be sure to orient the Washer Assembly as shown in Solon Belleville Spring Features via **.
One of the Thrust Washers Convex Head must be oriented to point towards the Wheel Axles Bolt Head, the other Trust washer Convex Head must point towards the Wheel Cover Item #6. Two Thrust Washers and two Wheel Washers will cost about $6.00. Time to un-assemble and re-assemble each wheel is about ten minutes each. Clean the large driver perimeter gear(s) on each inner wheel if badly caked with lubricant, grass, and dirt. Apply a thin coating of Gear Grease or Heavy Motor Oil to each driving gear


#22

B

Briantii

Is there any definitive best lube for these? I’ve been using grease and frankly it cakes up with dirt and gunk and I’m back to the same old infuriating lawn mower again. I get about a years worth of homeowner use no matter what. I’ve replaced the bushings 2 or 3 times too and the latest version even has been locking up... just like all the prior ones. I took it apart and cleaned them all out again this weekend and reassembled with powdered graphite this time. Feels great right now, but as always, who knows how long it will last. These mowers are awesome except for this stupid design. Why they didn’t use a sealed ball bearing is beyond me.

Robert, any chance you can comment about what lube (if any) is supposed to go in these bushings? I literally installed the new bushings last August and come July 2018 I’m ready to throw this thing off a cliff again. I can’t help but think it’s somehow me and using the wrong lube.


#23

gotomow

gotomow

I used Motorkote spray with good results. You could also try a graphite based spray like EZ-Slide. I picked up a can of EZ-Slide at an estate sale for a great price so I'm going to try that if the Motorkote is no longer effective. Honda chose to save $$$ on cheap bushings instead of putting bearings in. On a trip to Home Depot I noticed a HRX217 reduced on the sales floor so I thought I'd pull back on it and WOW that thing was hard to pull back practically brand new! If I had a lot of pulling back to do with a mower the Honda's would not be on my list.


#24

B

Briantii

Thanks, I may have to try one of those if the graphite powder doesn’t hold up. I’ll update the thread when I know. In a year if graphite still works I’ll sing it’s praises here.

This design is just so infuriating. It’s literally the only part of this mower that’s substandard. I can’t help but wonder how hard it’d be to machine the adjusters to accept a standard ball bearing. Looks like all current non-commercial models use the same design. I guess as always if you want the good stuff gotta pay for commercial grade, though my yard really shouldn’t need it. And I agree, half the brand new ones are hard to pull backwards too.... insane.


#25

B

bertsmobile1

Go to a push bike shop, the ones inhabited by MAMILS and get some DRY cable lube.
The stuff is expensive but you will only use a few drops.
I use Tri-FLow.
Do not get the spray cans.
When I started in the repair business 5 years ago I had 1/2 a 4oz bottle because I use it for lubing motorcycle control cables
Despite using it on mowers & bikes I still have about 1/10 of the bottle left.
Just give it a really good shake before you apply 2 to 3 drops then assemble and roll the mower a few feet to distribute the lube.
leave it for about 1/2 hour for the solvent to evaporate before you mow.
Do it every season as part of your annual season end service and you will never have to replace them again.


#26

B

Briantii

bertsmobile1 said:
Go to a push bike shop, the ones inhabited by MAMILS and get some DRY cable lube.
The stuff is expensive but you will only use a few drops.
I use Tri-FLow.
Do not get the spray cans.
When I started in the repair business 5 years ago I had 1/2 a 4oz bottle because I use it for lubing motorcycle control cables
Despite using it on mowers & bikes I still have about 1/10 of the bottle left.
Just give it a really good shake before you apply 2 to 3 drops then assemble and roll the mower a few feet to distribute the lube.
leave it for about 1/2 hour for the solvent to evaporate before you mow.
Do it every season as part of your annual season end service and you will never have to replace them again.
Click to expand...

Awesome, sounds like the perfect product. I'llpick sone up if graphite fails me. Disappointing the labor to get to them though and that it's required. Thanks!


#27

R

Roymg

Roymg said:
I can't take ownership for this fix and I can't find where I got this article from to be able to give credit to the originator. But I tried the fix he suggested and it worked for me. Why I'm not sure, but heck I was willing to try something to take care of the problem. I have a HRR216K9VKA Honda mower. I got my thrust washers from ACE and even though they were not an exact match, they worked. So far I cut my yard only once with this fix and ran this mower for an hour and one half, with good results.



14 year old HRT216 would no longer backup (rear wheels would not release when the drive handle was released, and the wheels just "locked". My remedy below is uniquely different from any others I have seen on this subject. Honda Mower Rear wheel xmission has a unique design that uses Thrust Washers to help release the drive from the rear wheels so that the operator can easily back up the mower when the Drive Handle is released.
As the machine ages, these washers lose their load Thrust and the rear wheels will not properly release to enable an easy back up. This makes the mower very hard to operate due to its "braking weight in reverse". A Simple Fix in lieu of replacing the entire transmission ($175 or so) and repair bill of $175 (total xmission repair is very difficult and time consuming) is to place two thrust washers (Pt # 90505-VG3-000) (13 x 27mm) in series and add one more spacing wheel washer (Pt # 90455-VA2-000 (13 x 27 x 1mm) to each Rear Wheel Assembly instead of just one thrust washer and spacer washer.
These are items #16 and #19 in Jacks-Parts-Lookup/Model-Diagram. Adding these washers "in series" will double the Thrust Force and aid the wheels to release. I used the existing Thrust Washer and Spacing Washer from the existing mower and added one Thrust Washer and One more Spacing Washer to each Wheel Assembly and got excellent results. Put the Spacing Plain Washers on each end of the Series Assembly of two Thrust Washers (i.e. Top and Bottom Sandwich with Thrust Washers "back to back" as shown in the Solon diagram referenced below: **. Be sure to orient the Washer Assembly as shown in Solon Belleville Spring Features via **.
One of the Thrust Washers Convex Head must be oriented to point towards the Wheel Axles Bolt Head, the other Trust washer Convex Head must point towards the Wheel Cover Item #6. Two Thrust Washers and two Wheel Washers will cost about $6.00. Time to un-assemble and re-assemble each wheel is about ten minutes each. Clean the large driver perimeter gear(s) on each inner wheel if badly caked with lubricant, grass, and dirt. Apply a thin coating of Gear Grease or Heavy Motor Oil to each driving gear
Click to expand...


Update:
I guess it was too good to be true. Second go around cutting my yard the problem returned. I had high hopes this would work. I did not use the exact parts he did in his fix but should not have mattered.


#28

B

Briantii

Roymg said:
Update:
I guess it was too good to be true. Second go around cutting my yard the problem returned. I had high hopes this would work. I did not use the exact parts he did in his fix but should not have mattered.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sorry it didn’t work. If that model is like most Honda’s then I believe the theory of operation is quite wrong. The wheels don’t release at all ever. The ratcheting pinion gear allows the wheel to “overrun” the speed of the drive shaft but only in the forward direction. This allows you to turn the mower to turn while self propelled is engaged. If the wheels were locked to the shaft always then there would be no turning since I think most are like mine and have no differential in the transmission. Pulling backwards allows you to see ALL the drag in the driveline assembly.

I believe those washers on the wheels simply help keep it on tight as well as ensure the plastic guard doesn’t interfere with the wheel.

So far have one mow completed with graphite in the bushings. So far so good.


#29

R

Roymg

Seems this guy may have a work-around solution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubnpTirPBu4


#30

B

Briantii

So quick update. 2 - 3 hours in on ONLY cleaning and re-lubing with powdered graphite and we're sticking again when hot. Guess it's new adjuster / bushing time. I wonder if Amazon has a "Subscribe and Save" option for adjusters / bushings... I swear it's an annual deal it seems. SO ANNOYING.


#31

D

DUSlider

When you guys lube the new bushings, make sure you use something safe for rubber/plastic. If you use the same grease you put on the pinion gear you're probably asking for trouble.

I used DuPont Teflon Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant. Its supposed to lube and repel dirt/grime. The one bearing has a rubber seal on one side that is supposed to help keep gunk out. However if you use grease that isn't compatible with rubber/plastic, that seal will break down and let gunk in and will freeze the bushing on the axle.

I replaced my height adjusters and got new bushings this summer and so far its working perfectly. I'll update after the cutting season next year.


#32

B

Briantii

DUSlider said:
When you guys lube the new bushings, make sure you use something safe for rubber/plastic. If you use the same grease you put on the pinion gear you're probably asking for trouble.

I used DuPont Teflon Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant. Its supposed to lube and repel dirt/grime. The one bearing has a rubber seal on one side that is supposed to help keep gunk out. However if you use grease that isn't compatible with rubber/plastic, that seal will break down and let gunk in and will freeze the bushing on the axle.

I replaced my height adjusters and got new bushings this summer and so far its working perfectly. I'll update after the cutting season next year.
Click to expand...


Yeah I think that's a very valid point and why I'd love to know what Honda recommends. The Dupont Dry Lube sounds like a good option.


#33

J

JHead

I purchased my HRR216VKA in May 2018 and have already begun experiencing this problem. Mower works OK at first and as it heats up, drive essentially stops working and wheels won’t roll backward. From what I’ve read on this forum, this is a design deficiency on the part of Honda which they didn’t fix after the Service Bulletin #107 in March 2017. I’ll be taking my mower back to the dealer tomorrow.


#34

B

Briantii

Did the dealer fix it?


#35

G

Gatafly

Took mine to the dealer to be fixed for this and also high oil consumption. He claims he can do the fix, but that it won't fix it as that is just the way they are. We will see, but not sure I believe him. Anyone else have this done and not work?


#36

B

Bobz1

Mine was supposedly fixed but after 2 uses just the same. The dealer said they used new bushings. I think they got old ones. Will take back again in spring. If They don't resole it I will go directly to Honda as is useless if wheels lock up.


#37

T

Thoffm99

Re: Honda HRR Models: Rear Wheels Locking Up When Pulling Backward.

Themus said:
I too have the problem with my Honda mower locking up its back wheels when pulling backwards. I have in the not-to-distant past, replaced the bushings with the adjuster arms. Seemed to work a few times while cutting the yard and then right back at the same stubborn hard-to-pull backwards issue. Just recently I took both assemblies off, cleaned the entire gears, springs and assembly and added lubricant. Worked well for just one mowing job.

Weird thing is, I have noticed the wheels seem to roll backwards when sitting in the garage and I need to pull it out to mow. Or sometimes, but not always, when I empty the bagger of clippings.

I have almost sold it. Indeed I had it on Craigslist and couldn't get my asking price so I pulled it off. I have also seen a YouTube video where a post shows my problem exactly and what he suggested was to take it all apart and sand the shaft on both sides where the bushings slide.

Anyone really have this problem and get a long-term solution?
Click to expand...

Same exact problem. Replaced the adjuster assembly using the part numbers from the bulletin, lubed it with lithium grease. Worked for one time and problem is back. It will backup but is harder than just after I reassembled it.


#38

O

Opfoto

robert@honda said:
Honda issued a Service Bulletin on this problem earlier this spring; the issue is the bushings may be undersized, causing increased friction between the bushing the the transmision's axle.

34774573651_d74f5d218e_o.png


The fix is to replace the adjuster arms, which have countermeasure bushings.

Step 1: First, verify your mower is in the affected range; if it is NOT, you have a different problem.
Affected model list is as follows:

HRR216K9VKA serial numbers MZCG-8670001-9933580
HRR216K9VLA serial numbers MZCG-8670001-9933580
HRR216K9VYA serial numbers MZCG-8670001-9933580

Step 2: Normal warranty applies; if your mower is still under warranty, is having a pull-back issue, and is in the above range, Honda will replace the adjusters under warranty. All Honda dealers are authorized to do this warranty repair, even if you didn't buy it from them. Beware that some dealers may offer more flexible repair schedules for those customer who did.

Find A Honda Dealer

If the dealer doesn't seem aware, tell him to look at Honda Power Equipment Lawn Mower Service Bulletin #107.

Step 3: If you're out of warranty, a dealer can still do the repair. Most will charge about 45 minutes to 1 hour of shop time for this job, but that's totally up to them. List price for each adjuster is $12.10.

Step 4: If you'd like to DIY, it's not a bad job. You need to remove the rear wheels and all the parts on the drive axle, which include a couple of circlips, so you may need to buy a circlip pliers. A bench is a big help to hold the mower in an easy-to-work-on position; note this requires the fuel and oil to be drained:

34519498190_9202febbb1_o.png


34095672263_8fbce116b4_o.png


I'd be happy to share some detailed instructions, just drop me a PM with your full email address.
Click to expand...

Interesting that Honda refuses to correct this issue. I have an 2012 HRR and I experienced this exact issue issue a number of times, I was told to make sure the gears are cleaned and lubed. No part replacements were ever offered either under warranty or not. I spent damn good money on a "better" mower. Found out rather quickly that I could have purchased a couple of other mowers instead for a lot less but I tought you get what you pay for. C'mon Honda are ya listening yet???


#39

D

de3

I bought a new HRR 3 years ago,I used it for 1 summer and replaced both pinion gears twice,the reason for them wearing out was that the rear wheels got so much play that the gear on the wheel wasn't lined up with the pinion gears and was wearing one side of the pinion gear real bad,to correct the issue i used thin wave washers to get the back and forth play out of the wheels,but you can only get by with doing that maybe twice.....Needless to say after 1 summer of using it i sold it,I average 75 hours or more a summer,The HRR Is pretty much a small town yard lawn mower,I've now been using a HRX 217 that I bought new,it now has around 400 hours and this is my 6th summer for it,i've replaced the blade stop hub bearing and I upgraded the wheel bearings with real bearings and replaced the pinion gears twice,so its been a good mower///I also have a HRC216 Commercial with 45 hours,this mower is in a class of its own,very well built including good bearings in the wheels and a few other things

Attachments





#40

B

Briantii

Briantii said:
Yeah I think that's a very valid point and why I'd love to know what Honda recommends. The Dupont Dry Lube sounds like a good option.
Click to expand...

Dry Lube did NOT work for me. Lasted less time than traditional grease. This is the “fix” I’m trying right now, that I think may hold some promise. I love the mower, just hate this insanely stupid design.

8DED523F-1E1B-48B7-B235-1F45EBC5C486.jpg


#41

B

Briantii

The idea is that I should be able to periodically push fresh grease into the bushing hopefully keeping most dirt and grit out. I aligned the fitting with the wheel mount on the adjuster so that if you adjust the wheels to the highest setting then the fitting points down and is easily accessible to pump grease into, otherwise it just points sideways/ up during normal use. I disassembled drilled and tapped it the put it back together and installed the zerk fitting with locktite. It’s a pain, but fingers crossed it’ll work well for a while.


#42

B

Briantii

Re: Honda HRR Models: Rear Wheels Locking Up When Pulling Backward.

Thoffm99 said:
Same exact problem. Replaced the adjuster assembly using the part numbers from the bulletin, lubed it with lithium grease. Worked for one time and problem is back. It will backup but is harder than just after I reassembled it.
Click to expand...

Yep, and will only get worse. I’m on my 2nd set of the “new” bushings that comply with the bulletin. Honda should have used sealed bearings IMHO.


#43

B

Briantii

Took mine out for it’s first mow with the zerk fittings pumped up with some really old Yamaha Marine grease (just what was in my gun). Wow! So much better. I could turn on a dime, self propelled was faster, whole thing felt lighter and more maneuverable. Fingers crossed that shooting grease in there once a month or so will keep it like this. I forgot how good these things are on the rare occasion they’re actually working correctly. Will update everyone later this season with status. Hopefully this is a long term solution since Honda sure doesn’t give us one.


#44

Mow'N Weeds

Mow'N Weeds

I like that grease fitting idea, that should have been a factory installed deal, for as over-complicated design of those things.. why wasn't it??
I shy away from Honda mowers, do not like. Motors yeah of course, everything else, not one bit. I got another one laying about, but I have no money invested into it thus far, it was a freebie someone beat to snot then finally pushed to the curb. Motor may be a runner, it's free at least. That's the most I'll pay for an actual Honda mower though ;)


#45

B

Briantii

Mow'N Weeds said:
I like that grease fitting idea, that should have been a factory installed deal, for as over-complicated design of those things.. why wasn't it??
I shy away from Honda mowers, do not like. Motors yeah of course, everything else, not one bit. I got another one laying about, but I have no money invested into it thus far, it was a freebie someone beat to snot then finally pushed to the curb. Motor may be a runner, it's free at least. That's the most I'll pay for an actual Honda mower though ;)
Click to expand...

I wish they would have used sealed ball bearings. The zerk fitting for the non sealed bushing seemed like the next best thing. I like my mower when the self propelled isn’t messed up. Unfortunately due to their horrible design I feel like I’m re-engineering more than mowing. So frustrating. If this continues to work I’ll be happy though.... just not with Honda. :)


#46

M

minndogs

Seems to me this lock up of the rear wheels is a design problem.
I have experienced it on 2 hrr216 series mowers and my brother has the exact problem on his hrr216 series mower. THe Honda dealer recently replaced the bushings on one of mine under warranty. The mower still has the issue.

My thoughts are that when the clutch is adjusted so that the rear wheels do not lock up, the mower does not have enough torque on the rear wheels to go up steeper hills. Fine for flat lawns with mild hill angles.
If the clutch is adjusted so that there is enough clutch tension to keep the wheels going for steep hills, the rear wheels lock up when pulling the mower backwards with the engine running.

I think this is due to the stiffer tension adjustment needed for steeper hills. With the stiffer tension, when the clutch is released to pull the mower backwards, there is still slight tension on the transmission pulley so the rear wheels will not turn freely when pulling backwards.
I tested this out by changing clutch adjustments in my driveway and sure enough, the rear wheels lock when the clutch adjustment is tightened adequately for steeper hills. There does not seem be solution to this issue. It is caused by the design of the drive system.


#47

Mow'N Weeds

Mow'N Weeds

Briantii said:
I wish they would have used sealed ball bearings. The zerk fitting for the non sealed bushing seemed like the next best thing. I like my mower when the self propelled isn’t messed up. Unfortunately due to their horrible design I feel like I’m re-engineering more than mowing. So frustrating. If this continues to work I’ll be happy though.... just not with Honda. :)
Click to expand...
Sealed bearings sound like a better idea too. I had the joy of tearing one down on both rear wheels, cleaning/sanding down parts, cleaning every bit of old grease and re-greasing w/new blue marine grease. It worked again when finished (wheels didn't lock up anymore), but it was a PITA job and I honestly don't know if it was any sort of permanent fix to the issue or not. I sold it before I found out yes or no. The buyer asked if the wheels locking up would come back and I told 'em IDK, but that if he had a problem with them doing that anytime soon, that he could get in contact with me and I could do the job again if need be. I wouldn't have charged 'em to do it, would have just been a courtesy. Thankfully I never heard from him again, so I'm also hoping it's still mowin' along just fine for 'em. I've read that bushings were made too small from the factory (or wheel shafts too big, depending on how you wanna look at it), and if still under warranty they'd replace with new up-sized bushings and that was supposed to fix it. But here we have testimony of that still not fixing the issue. Though I'm no official Engineer, I don't think it's the best design either, clearly. If they were cheapie mowers a guy might not gripe so much, but these things purchased new are far from 'cheap' in price for a walk behind mower IMO.


#48

B

Briantii

Mow'N Weeds said:
Sealed bearings sound like a better idea too. I had the joy of tearing one down on both rear wheels, cleaning/sanding down parts, cleaning every bit of old grease and re-greasing w/new blue marine grease. It worked again when finished (wheels didn't lock up anymore), but it was a PITA job and I honestly don't know if it was any sort of permanent fix to the issue or not. I sold it before I found out yes or no. The buyer asked if the wheels locking up would come back and I told 'em IDK, but that if he had a problem with them doing that anytime soon, that he could get in contact with me and I could do the job again if need be. I wouldn't have charged 'em to do it, would have just been a courtesy. Thankfully I never heard from him again, so I'm also hoping it's still mowin' along just fine for 'em. I've read that bushings were made too small from the factory (or wheel shafts too big, depending on how you wanna look at it), and if still under warranty they'd replace with new up-sized bushings and that was supposed to fix it. But here we have testimony of that still not fixing the issue. Though I'm no official Engineer, I don't think it's the best design either, clearly. If they were cheapie mowers a guy might not gripe so much, but these things purchased new are far from 'cheap' in price for a walk behind mower IMO.
Click to expand...

Yep, EXACTLY. It seems to me to be related to how much dust you have. It gums up pretty quickly if there is a lot of dust. If it's damp or I stick with the front yard where the grass is in a lot better shape, then it's fine. The zerk fittings so far are still working great. Just hit them with a shot of grease any time I start to feel any drag. This is the best the mower has EVER been, even new. I'd highly recommend the "zerk fitting mod" as it seems to be the only real way to maintain them without tearing the whole thing apart each time.


#49

B

Briantii

minndogs said:
Seems to me this lock up of the rear wheels is a design problem.
I have experienced it on 2 hrr216 series mowers and my brother has the exact problem on his hrr216 series mower. THe Honda dealer recently replaced the bushings on one of mine under warranty. The mower still has the issue.

My thoughts are that when the clutch is adjusted so that the rear wheels do not lock up, the mower does not have enough torque on the rear wheels to go up steeper hills. Fine for flat lawns with mild hill angles.
If the clutch is adjusted so that there is enough clutch tension to keep the wheels going for steep hills, the rear wheels lock up when pulling the mower backwards with the engine running.

I think this is due to the stiffer tension adjustment needed for steeper hills. With the stiffer tension, when the clutch is released to pull the mower backwards, there is still slight tension on the transmission pulley so the rear wheels will not turn freely when pulling backwards.
I tested this out by changing clutch adjustments in my driveway and sure enough, the rear wheels lock when the clutch adjustment is tightened adequately for steeper hills. There does not seem be solution to this issue. It is caused by the design of the drive system.
Click to expand...

Assuming you're talking about the newer versions there really isn't a "clutch" per say - the cable pulls up on the transmission which rotates and tightens the belt. I always thought it might be drag from the belt and did similar experiments to yours, but it's really drag from those stupid bushings. It also can be affected by heat. As the plastic bushings inside the metal adjuster heat up then it gets tighter, causing more friction and heat and drags even more. It actually seems to put a pretty big load on the transmission from the drag and friction. I overheated / locked up my transmission with the bushings dragging so much one time. The temp differences do lead to inconsistent results of the tests as well. I HIGHLY suggest trying the zerk fitting mod that I showed in the picture. It's really working great with the bushings remaining well lubed. Like, it freely rolls backwards down hills without ANY hint of tearing up grass! How sad that they couldn't get this right from the factory. The only thing I'd do differently is epoxy the inside dust shield to the metal adjuster to keep the pressure from the grease from wanting to pop it out which can happen if you pump a shot of grease in them quickly.


#50

J

jahn

robert@honda said:
Honda issued a Service Bulletin on this problem earlier this spring; the issue is the bushings may be undersized, causing increased friction between the bushing the the transmision's axle.

34774573651_d74f5d218e_o.png


The fix is to replace the adjuster arms, which have countermeasure bushings.

Step 1: First, verify your mower is in the affected range; if it is NOT, you have a different problem.
Affected model list is as follows:

HRR216K9VKA serial numbers MZCG-8670001-9933580
HRR216K9VLA serial numbers MZCG-8670001-9933580
HRR216K9VYA serial numbers MZCG-8670001-9933580

Step 2: Normal warranty applies; if your mower is still under warranty, is having a pull-back issue, and is in the above range, Honda will replace the adjusters under warranty. All Honda dealers are authorized to do this warranty repair, even if you didn't buy it from them. Beware that some dealers may offer more flexible repair schedules for those customer who did.

Find A Honda Dealer

If the dealer doesn't seem aware, tell him to look at Honda Power Equipment Lawn Mower Service Bulletin #107.

Step 3: If you're out of warranty, a dealer can still do the repair. Most will charge about 45 minutes to 1 hour of shop time for this job, but that's totally up to them. List price for each adjuster is $12.10.

Step 4: If you'd like to DIY, it's not a bad job. You need to remove the rear wheels and all the parts on the drive axle, which include a couple of circlips, so you may need to buy a circlip pliers. A bench is a big help to hold the mower in an easy-to-work-on position; note this requires the fuel and oil to be drained:

34519498190_9202febbb1_o.png


34095672263_8fbce116b4_o.png


I'd be happy to share some detailed instructions, just drop me a PM with your full email address.
Click to expand...

I had my mower parts replaced and after 2 weeks it still won't pull backwards..........I bought a Toro that always works.


#51

G

Gatafly

jahn said:
I had my mower parts replaced and after 2 weeks it still won't pull backwards..........I bought a Toro that always works.
Click to expand...

I did too, but also because it burns oil and Honda won't do anything even under warranty. Love my Toro, better self propel, lighter and easier to mow with and doesn't leave built up grass by the left rear wheel if mowing gets delayed a couple days because of rain.


#52

J

jahn

Gatafly said:
I did too, but also because it burns oil and Honda won't do anything even under warranty. Love my Toro, better self propel, lighter and easier to mow with and doesn't leave built up grass by the left rear wheel if mowing gets delayed a couple days because of rain.
Click to expand...

Don't get any better than a Toro........my last one which I used for 15 years, I just gave it to my brother and like a Timex it takes a lickin' & keeps on tickin'...... :)


#53

D

DUSlider

Just to update on my mower. Still no issues with the original problem, however one of the rear wheel height adjuster handles broke while I was mowing today, unexpectedly. So it looks like I'll get to see how that bearing and the axle is holding up on that side. Now to order the replacement part.


#54

Mow'N Weeds

Mow'N Weeds

jahn said:
Don't get any better than a Toro........my last one which I used for 15 years, I just gave it to my brother and like a Timex it takes a lickin' & keeps on tickin'...... :)
Click to expand...
I see 'em free with issues on local CL almost daily, lol. Usually the 6.5 Tecumseh models. As soon as they go up, someone is on 'em. I've only scored one and honestly I didn't even really want it, I was just getting irritated about not getting the ones I wanted to so when that one came up near me I ran to get it just to piss everyone else off, lol!


#55

B

Briantii

Hey guys just an update on the zerk fittings. They work, but I still was getting enough gunk build up in the adjusters that eventually more grease would just push the dust seal out. If you're going to do it, I'd suggest getting an extra dust seal for the inside of the wheel and epoxying the dust seals - it may require trimming the bushing to make enough room for 2 dust seals.

I started a new thread showing my latest experiment - converting to bearings.

https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/show...wer-Backwards-HRR216VLA-to-bearing-conversion

Frankly I'm about done trying to re-engineer Honda's mistakes on this stuff. I may go Honda Commercial or Toro if this doesn't work.


#56

T

tudiu

Hi all,
I am new to this website. I've been following this thread for the last few days because I had the same problem with my Honda HRR2169VLA.
After watching many youtube clips, I cleaned the drive shaft and bushings but my problem is not fixed. I was convinced that it is something else other then the rusted drive shaft or undersized bushing which was mentioned in the technical bulletin #107 per Honda.
What I found on my mower was the V-belt (drive belt if you will) was installed incorrectly. Not sure if it was by the factory or it just jumped of the guide. See the photo:2019-10-18 20.12.00.jpg
The belt should not be on top of the metal guide. it should be under. See photo:2019-10-18 20.13.48.jpg.
After I moved it to the other side of the metal guide, it fixed my problem.
While you are working on it, inspect the drive belt, it may be damaged too.2019-10-18 20.21.41.jpg
I am not planning to replace the belt. I will see how it runs. I was almost order the bushings and the adjuster arms. But I found this and I stopped the order.
I was able to pull it backward now easily. Should have some friction, but not much compares to before I fix it.
Not sure if your problem is the same, but it worths to check.
Oh, BTW, I also used Lithium grease to lub the bushings.
I am planning to make a youtube video to show the fix.
If anyone need more info or questions, feel free to email me.

Attachments





#57

G

greystone

Looking to resolve this issue with my mower, are parts 42930-vg3-b01 and 42940-vg3-b01 all I need? It looks like the drive shaft bushing (44327-VE2-801) is included in the bracket? I saw people mentioning four bushings, don't want to get int there and be missing parts.

Thanks.

Attachments





#58

B

Briantii

greystone said:
Looking to resolve this issue with my mower, are parts 42930-vg3-b01 and 42940-vg3-b01 all I need? It looks like the drive shaft bushing (44327-VE2-801) is included in the bracket? I saw people mentioning four bushings, don't want to get int there and be missing parts.

Thanks.
Click to expand...


Yes that's all you need, but the bad news is that there really isn't a "solution" from Honda except potentially upgrading to the new HRN models where they redesigned it. It's a fatal design flaw and if you operate it in a dusty environment you'll get a few mows before it's jammed up again. You might make it a season on average. I've been experimenting with trying to solve it by replacing the bushings with needle bearings and adding another dust seal on the wheel side. So far this has been working perfectly for me but I don't have a lot of mows through it yet... but I can tell you so far it rolls backward much smoother than with new Honda parts. It's like a whole new different mower - and in a good way.


Here are the details on what I've been trying with promising results so far. My model was a typo though - it's a VYA not VLA.

www.lawnmowerforum.com

Can't Pull Mower Backwards - HRR216VLA to bearing conversion

Edit: 2 Year update 10/18/2021 - the needle bearings worked great for 2 years. I disassembled for re-greasing and found that they HAVE caused some minor damage and mushrooming to the drive shaft especially on the left side where the transmission sits and pulls against the shaft to tension the...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com


#59

G

greystone

Thanks for the update, I started getting that vibe with the bad reviews on Amazon reporting the issue returned. Doesn't seem like it's worth the cost and hassle, what a nuisance. Fortunately I don't have to reverse mine too often.


#60

B

Briantii

greystone said:
Thanks for the update, I started getting that vibe with the bad reviews on Amazon reporting the issue returned. Doesn't seem like it's worth the cost and hassle, what a nuisance. Fortunately I don't have to reverse mine too often.
Click to expand...

The only thing I'd caution you on is that the drag you feel pulling backwards is also what the transmission "feels" going forward... so if it's nearly impossible to roll backwards (such as on concrete) you probably want to fix it. I actually overheated and seized my transmission or bushings solid for a few minutes mine was so bad (and insanely hot) one time. You don't really need to buy new components - you'll accomplish about the same thing taking it apart and just cleaning them out - they'll be packed full of dirt / grime.

Other things I've tried:

- Teflon Spray - this was the worst option.

- Graphite - This is a decent option, but still not great

- Installed zerk fittings to push new grease into the bushings - This worked but eventually still got so caked up that the new grease just didn't want to push in there... plus high maintenance.

- Regular grease - This is a decent option


If it's BAD and you just don't want it to seize up - I'd take it apart, clean, and put it back together with graphite powder / or a little regular grease. If you can still get it to pull back on concrete reasonably well you probably don't NEED to touch it.


#61

B

bertsmobile1

Dry Lithium chassis grease and regular cleaning is what all of my commercial customers use/\.
IT is a routine maintenance job required one a season , generally at the end of a season.
For the tade customers it is a once a week / month job but their week can be up to 80 hours of mowing.


#62

B

Briantii

bertsmobile1 said:
Dry Lithium chassis grease and regular cleaning is what all of my commercial customers use/\.
IT is a routine maintenance job required one a season , generally at the end of a season.
For the tade customers it is a once a week / month job but their week can be up to 80 hours of mowing.
Click to expand...

Dont the HRC commercial mowers use a different setup with multiple dust seals? I haven’t tried dry lithium grease.


#63

B

bertsmobile1

Mostly the locals use domestics or the old 3 speed 21"
The new commercials are way too heavy to high & cumbersome to use .
Some are now going back to Super Swifts & tying the new Toros but again the "anti idiot " multi bail set up makes the Toros a pain to use all day long unless you have a 10" log hand .
I can understand all this useless rubbish on domestic mowers that get used by idiot home owners but on a professional it is stupid.
The ownus is on the employer to properly train their employees not on Honda to make an impossible to hurt yourself with mower.
And of course down here workers compensation insurance is compulsory as is safety training .
I do fit snorkels to most of them if they have the pannel filter and that is about it .
we get slightly different mowers than the USA which found out when ordering parts off USA IPL's


#64

G

greystone

Briantii said:
If it's BAD and you just don't want it to seize up - I'd take it apart, clean, and put it back together with graphite powder / or a little regular grease. If you can still get it to pull back on concrete reasonably well you probably don't NEED to touch it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, it's due for an oil change so I'll flip it over and give a clean. I really like the mower apart from this issue.


#65

B

Briantii

greystone said:
Thanks for that, it's due for an oil change so I'll flip it over and give a clean. I really like the mower apart from this issue.
Click to expand...

No problem - I've got the same struggle - I love the mower minus this issue. I can tell you it's AWESOME right now with the needle bearings, so if they hold up it's worth the effort. I'll update mid season. Good luck!


#66

D

de3

Briantii said:
Dont the HRC commercial mowers use a different setup with multiple dust seals? I haven’t tried dry lithium grease.
Click to expand...
Yes the HRC Is a different and much better setup


#67

Y

Yert3

Is this a known problem with the HRN models too? I’m interested in purchasing one soon, but after reading all this, I’m kind of worried.


#68

B

Briantii

Yert3 said:
Is this a known problem with the HRN models too? I’m interested in purchasing one soon, but after reading all this, I’m kind of worried.
Click to expand...

The HRN looks like a completely new design from looking at the parts diagram with one of the stated improvements being "easier to pull backwards". As to if it's truly solved - I don't think anyone KNOWS for sure yet. My suspicion is that they've fixed it and I'd personally consider buying one.


#69

T

Torak

Briantii said:
Thanks, I may have to try one of those if the graphite powder doesn’t hold up. I’ll update the thread when I know. In a year if graphite still works I’ll sing it’s praises here.

This design is just so infuriating. It’s literally the only part of this mower that’s substandard. I can’t help but wonder how hard it’d be to machine the adjusters to accept a standard ball bearing. Looks like all current non-commercial models use the same design. I guess as always if you want the good stuff gotta pay for commercial grade, though my yard really shouldn’t need it. And I agree, half the brand new ones are hard to pull backwards too.... insane.
Click to expand...
Briantii said:
So quick update. 2 - 3 hours in on ONLY cleaning and re-lubing with powdered graphite and we're sticking again when hot. Guess it's new adjuster / bushing time. I wonder if Amazon has a "Subscribe and Save" option for adjusters / bushings... I swear it's an annual deal it seems. SO ANNOYING.
Click to expand...

You right, seems every year it's back to the same problem. So, what I have done is to order the new adjusters with the bushings. This was supposed to be the new and better solution. Well was okay for one season, now back to a tear down, cleaning up the shaft, but instead of any kind of grease this time I'm trying some door lock lube spray. Is in a liquid form. Will see!


#70

B

Briantii

Torak said:
You right, seems every year it's back to the same problem. So, what I have done is to order the new adjusters with the bushings. This was supposed to be the new and better solution. Well was okay for one season, now back to a tear down, cleaning up the shaft, but instead of any kind of grease this time I'm trying some door lock lube spray. Is in a liquid form. Will see!
Click to expand...

Good luck, the dry lube didn’t do so well for me. Graphite powder was MUCH better than Teflon spray. Teflon spray was really bad. So far the bearing conversion is still doing awesome on mine. Zero maintenance and better than new. Only about 10 mows so far, but before it was going down hill by 3 or 4.


#71

T

Torak

Briantii said:
Good luck, the dry lube didn’t do so well for me. Graphite powder was MUCH better than Teflon spray. Teflon spray was really bad. So far the bearing conversion is still doing awesome on mine. Zero maintenance and better than new. Only about 10 mows so far, but before it was going down hill by 3 or 4.
Click to expand...

Well it worked better than before using the dry lube but still had a few stuck pull backs. I guess the only thing one can do is grind down that axle. I did do a little sanding on the axle but I guess not enough.


#72

B

Briantii

Torak said:
Well it worked better than before using the dry lube but still had a few stuck pull backs. I guess the only thing one can do is grind down that axle. I did do a little sanding on the axle but I guess not enough.
Click to expand...

I had the worst results with dry lube. If you want to try something but don’t want to convert to bearings, you may consider adding a dust seal to the wheel side and then using grease with the plastic bushings. I wouldn't grind or sand the axle since that could make the dust seal less effective. The biggest issue is junk getting inside the bushing which is why I’d look at adding an extra dust seal on the wheel side. So far the bearing conversion I did is still working better than new. Mower feels 10lbs lighter and more powerful.


#73

N

ncskeeter

Does this apply to an HRR2169VLA? My serial is in the range, but I'm missing the K in the part number.
I'm wondering if its worth buying the bulletin parts.

My mower has been getting pretty bad over the last few years. I really hadn't realized how bad it got until i came across a spare John Deere JS20. It rolls back effortlessly. I finally have some time to mess with the Honda. I removed the transmission and sanded the shaft. It doesn't seem any better. I did notice that the inside of the bushings are pretty gouged up.


#74

B

Briantii

ncskeeter said:
Does this apply to an HRR2169VLA? My serial is in the range, but I'm missing the K in the part number.
I'm wondering if its worth buying the bulletin parts.

My mower has been getting pretty bad over the last few years. I really hadn't realized how bad it got until i came across a spare John Deere JS20. It rolls back effortlessly. I finally have some time to mess with the Honda. I removed the transmission and sanded the shaft. It doesn't seem any better. I did notice that the inside of the bushings are pretty gouged up.
Click to expand...

Probably. The design is fundamentally flawed, not just a bad production run. Checkout my thread on converting to bearings. They’re still working great and much better than even the bushings are new. Otherwise if you want to stay with the bushings I’d buy new and an extra set of dust seals, use grease and then get seals on the wheel side too. The problem is that dust and dirt get in the bushings, probably mostly from the wheel side since stock it has no seal.


#75

W

wagnergtau

Are the part numbers listed on the front page of the Service Bulletin the correct ones to order now? I just wanted to make sure there aren't new part numbers. Boats.net seems to be the only site with good prices unless someone knows a better one. Thanks!!


#76

B

Briantii

wagnergtau said:
Are the part numbers listed on the front page of the Service Bulletin the correct ones to order now? I just wanted to make sure there aren't new part numbers. Boats.net seems to be the only site with good prices unless someone knows a better one. Thanks!!
Click to expand...

As far as I know, yes. Just make sure you get extra dust seals and epoxy them to the wheel side of the bushing. That is looking like a good and easy option.


#77

R

Roymg

Torak said:
You right, seems every year it's back to the same problem. So, what I have done is to order the new adjusters with the bushings. This was supposed to be the new and better solution. Well was okay for one season, now back to a tear down, cleaning up the shaft, but instead of any kind of grease this time I'm trying some door lock lube spray. Is in a liquid form. Will see!
Click to expand...

Update: Okay after I've gone into a tear down and sanded the shafts again, and used the door lock lube I've just about fished one season with no lock ups. I think grease will harden, and along with dirt, doesn't help the cause.


#78

B

Briantii

Roymg said:
Update: Okay after I've gone into a tear down and sanded the shafts again, and used the door lock lube I've just about fished one season with no lock ups. I think grease will harden, and along with dirt, doesn't help the cause.
Click to expand...

I used some teflon dry lube spray. It worked well until it didn't (few mows as I recall). That was the <worst> lockup I've ever had. Whole thing was so hot it seized and would roll backwards at all and would kill the motor engaging self propelled. Graphite powder was far better in my experience if anyone wants to work with dry lube. I do think adding an extra dust seal is the most critical aspect though.


#79

gotomow

gotomow

20200826_120917~2_compress5.jpg

My fix was to sell the Honda and replace it with a Toro Super Recycler. Grease fittings on all 4 wheels. Plus now I can bag, mulch, or side discharge.


#80

B

Briantii

gotomow said:
View attachment 53931

My fix was to sell the Honda and replace it with a Toro Super Recycler. Grease fittings on all 4 wheels. Plus now I can bag, mulch, or side discharge.
Click to expand...

That was my "next" fix. Though I'm not sure I can get on board with the personal pace handles so I was looking at the commercial side... this is pretty much what I had in mind as the replacement "in anger" for my consumer Honda. :)

Huge over kill for a < .5 acre lot... but I've spent A LOT of time messing with this stupid HRR216....

Commercial Mowers | Zero Turn, Stand-On & Walk-Behind Lawn Mowers | Toro

Discover Toro’s leading line of commercial lawn mowers with professional-grade features engineered to handle extreme conditions and challenging terrain.
www.toro.com www.toro.com


#81

gotomow

gotomow

I've got to be careful though because my driveway is on a slight angle. The honda, pointing uphill would stay put. The Toro will fly down, lol. It actually rolls backwards!!


#82

B

Briantii

gotomow said:
I've got to be careful though because my driveway is on a slight angle. The honda, pointing uphill would stay put. The Toro will fly down, lol. It actually rolls backwards!!
Click to expand...

It's nice isn't it? Believe it or not, with the needle bearings and extra dust seal my Honda will roll backwards too - even on grass! It's like a totally different mower. So far almost a full season and it's perfect without touching it. As long as it stays good I'll stick with it... but that Toro was looking mighty tempting this time last year.


#83

M

mikered30

Hey all,

Joined this forum to share my frustration. I have a 3.5 year old HRR216. Had all the classic symptoms of the failed bushings on the adjuster arm per the honda bulletin. Bought new adjuster arms (with the paint dot from honda dealer), polished axle really well, greased it up, and everything was great for about 5 mowings until the rear wheel started to lock up again after about 40 min of mowing. Search online, possibly could have been an issue with the transmission belt or the keys, so I replaced them and I still have the issue. After about 20 mins of mowing, the resistance on pulling back the mower is noticeably increased. After 40 min, wheels lock, so frustrated with this POS. After I they locked up the last time, I checked the axle. Where it went into the transmission it was a bit warm, along with the transmission, but where the axle went into the adjuster arm, the axle was hot to the touch, couldn't touch it for more than 4 seconds before it was uncomfortable to the touch. This was true for both adjusters, which were also hot to the touch. Obviously friction is causing the heat but I have no idea why if they are greased and have the revised adjuster arm. It is likely shorting the life of the transmission, because I have to push down further on the paddles when I want to go forward after 20 minutes. Was there any solution to this issue? So frustrated and over this mower.


#84

B

Briantii

mikered30 said:
Hey all,

Joined this forum to share my frustration. I have a 3.5 year old HRR216. Had all the classic symptoms of the failed bushings on the adjuster arm per the honda bulletin. Bought new adjuster arms (with the paint dot from honda dealer), polished axle really well, greased it up, and everything was great for about 5 mowings until the rear wheel started to lock up again after about 40 min of mowing. Search online, possibly could have been an issue with the transmission belt or the keys, so I replaced them and I still have the issue. After about 20 mins of mowing, the resistance on pulling back the mower is noticeably increased. After 40 min, wheels lock, so frustrated with this POS. After I they locked up the last time, I checked the axle. Where it went into the transmission it was a bit warm, along with the transmission, but where the axle went into the adjuster arm, the axle was hot to the touch, couldn't touch it for more than 4 seconds before it was uncomfortable to the touch. This was true for both adjusters, which were also hot to the touch. Obviously friction is causing the heat but I have no idea why if they are greased and have the revised adjuster arm. It is likely shorting the life of the transmission, because I have to push down further on the paddles when I want to go forward after 20 minutes. Was there any solution to this issue? So frustrated and over this mower.
Click to expand...

Its dust in the adjusters. It comes in around the wheel side and gear housing. The design is flawed. Clean them out again and glue / epoxy additional rubber dust seals to the wheel side too of the adjuster. You can also upgrade the bushings from plastic to oilite bronze. Do not use needle bearings like I did - they worked at the expense of the drive shaft.

Ive been through it all. Started a thread even on how to modify these things to fix it and the biggest win is getting those additional seals there. Your problem is just like mine and you probably have bare spots in your yard that kick up a bunch of dust. Yes, Honda was stupid enough to build a sys that cannot handle it.

My modifications worked for a while until a dust seal failed and let grit in again. Like you I got sick of messing with it. Ended just buying an HRX217HYA - which does work a lot better.

Ultimately you can fix it and have it hold up great if you’re willing. See this thread for all the info:

www.lawnmowerforum.com

Can't Pull Mower Backwards - HRR216VLA to bearing conversion

Edit: 2 Year update 10/18/2021 - the needle bearings worked great for 2 years. I disassembled for re-greasing and found that they HAVE caused some minor damage and mushrooming to the drive shaft especially on the left side where the transmission sits and pulls against the shaft to tension the...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com


#85

M

mikered30

Briantii said:
Its dust in the adjusters. It comes in around the wheel side and gear housing. The design is flawed. Clean them out again and glue / epoxy additional rubber dust seals to the wheel side too of the adjuster. You can also upgrade the bushings from plastic to oilite bronze. Do not use needle bearings like I did - they worked at the expense of the drive shaft.

Ive been through it all. Started a thread even on how to modify these things to fix it and the biggest win is getting those additional seals there. Your problem is just like mine and you probably have bare spots in your yard that kick up a bunch of dust. Yes, Honda was stupid enough to build a sys that cannot handle it.

My modifications worked for a while until a dust seal failed and let grit in again. Like you I got sick of messing with it. Ended just buying an HRX217HYA - which does work a lot better.

Ultimately you can fix it and have it hold up great if you’re willing. See this thread for all the info:

www.lawnmowerforum.com

Can't Pull Mower Backwards - HRR216VLA to bearing conversion

Edit: 2 Year update 10/18/2021 - the needle bearings worked great for 2 years. I disassembled for re-greasing and found that they HAVE caused some minor damage and mushrooming to the drive shaft especially on the left side where the transmission sits and pulls against the shaft to tension the...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for that fast response. I will look into the additional dust seals. I just looked at the HRX217HYA, it has great reviews but it is up to $1000.


#86

B

Briantii

mikered30 said:
Thanks for that fast response. I will look into the additional dust seals. I just looked at the HRX217HYA, it has great reviews but it is up to $1000.
Click to expand...

No problem at all. I wasn’t suggesting a new mower as the fix, just that I’ve been down this road a lot. The extra dust seal and new bushings ( since yours have probably been damaged already ) should be realy all you need. I was just sick of messing with mine, especially since on mine I was going to need another new transmission since my needle bearings wore down the driveshaft.


#87

F

fullboogie

I've had it with mine. Twice a year I have to break everything down, clean/grease, and it works for a few months. I have the "new" adjusters and it didn't help for very long. I guess I'm throwing it in the dumpster and buying an HRN. It's a shame, because otherwise it's been a good machine.


#88

B

Briantii

fullboogie said:
I've had it with mine. Twice a year I have to break everything down, clean/grease, and it works for a few months. I have the "new" adjusters and it didn't help for very long. I guess I'm throwing it in the dumpster and buying an HRN. It's a shame, because otherwise it's been a good machine.
Click to expand...

Im with you and I must say the HRX with the hydro drive seems way smoother and no issues pulling backwards. The HRN is supposed to have fixes too.

If you’re willing to give it one last shot, you can try adding the dust seals to the wheel side of the adjuster. A lot of folks here are reporting success with that - especially with the oilite bronze bushings.

I totally understand you though. After this last time with mine I just bought an HRX. I will say, I still prefer the controls on the HRR though.


#89

T

TobyU

They've been doing this for years.
About year 2-3 they get a little harder to pull back. Varies by use parameters and treatment.
- you people who want to keep mowers clean should put the garden hose away and keep water AWAY from your mowers!
Lots of rusty axles and worn parts from getting them wet.

I always lube the shafts on every one but if I get a harder to pull back one, I
often take rear wheels off and blow everything off really well and use Lucas Chain Lube (the stuff will change your life!) behind the gears and in that little groove/slot in that plate are there.
Then I put else back on and rotate them each back and forth a few turns then flip it on each side for a few seconds and spray the axle shaft on the wheel that's on the button by ground so the lube can drain into the bushing from the back toward the gear.
I spin the wheels back and forth as I do this .

Then sit mower back upright and push and pull back.
Then go in left zero turn mode keeping left wheel just sitting there but right rolling around as you push in tight circle.
Then go to right.

This concludes the "make Honda pull backwards better" portion of the service.


#90

F

Flyingdog

Even though I have a HRX, I'm sure this relates to other Hondas'. Something one can check if all else fails. I was getting a lotta lock-up on "one" side. Took things apart and noticed, the slot that the ratcheting key & spring sits in didn't have square edges, anymore. Over time, apparently the key starts to bevel the edges..letting the ratcheting key slip out of it's slot. Locking the wheel from turning backwards, but still goes forward. Anyways, kinda involved, but can be done. I welded few dollops of bead on these beveled edges. Filed them flush with the axle and happened to have a dremel metal cutting drum that was the exact size of the slot and clean up/squared off the inside edges. Pretty much a pita route, but does work, if your looking for something to do and don't wanna throw your mower off a cliff yet. Probly another one of those "cost-saving" measures, using soft steel for the axle, Honda decided to use. What's new..eh?

Oh yea...wanted to mention, did this bout three years ago.. last time I had this apart for some cleaning, notice these welded edges were still well defined. Haven't had a bit of trouble since (I.E: no lock-up). Hopefully that was my problem.


#91

S

Scott_HRR

Mine is a 216VKA but I found just normal maintenance keeps this issue from happening. I just tore mine completly down to change the oil on the drive transmission. Cleaned and scotch brite everything when putting back together and it rolls backwards very smoothly. My bushings are cracked from age but work fine until the new ones come in.


#92

T

TobyU

Scott_HRR said:
Mine is a 216VKA but I found just normal maintenance keeps this issue from happening. I just tore mine completly down to change the oil on the drive transmission. Cleaned and scotch brite everything when putting back together and it rolls backwards very smoothly. My bushings are cracked from age but work fine until the new ones come in.
Click to expand...
However that is not normal or routine maintenance.
Nowhere has Honda ever told the homeowner they're supposed to disassemble their transmission or the oil/grease inside of it.

I don't even believe they actually go as far as talking about removing a wheel but you can basically prevent this from happening on most of these models even without removing the wheels or anything beyond that.
If you lubricate them at least once a season where the axle shafts go through the bushings on each side especially with that side towards the ground so the lubricant can seat down along the shaft and then spray a little bit on the wheel side by where the gear comes through and there's even a nice little notch there you can stick the tube of your lubricant straw behind the height adjuster to get some in there.
Then work the mower back and forth a few times and what I have found is to go in a tight zero turn circle to the right and then to the left and then backwards multiple times.
This normally gets the wheels pretty freely operational and they will get even better as you then use it.
My favorite lubricant for this is Lucas chain lube which is by far better than any other chain lube I've ever used.


#93

S

Scott_HRR

I understand what you are saying but how many times have manufacturers avoided telling their customers what it really takes to maintain a specific area of their equipment? Changing the oil in the transmission isn’t necessary but full disassembly of the shaft and bushings is necessary after 10 years no matter what exterior lube you apply during the life of something that cuts grass. I only changed the trans fluid because I already had the thing out on the bench. Glad I did because it was full of metal shavings for 10 years from original break in. Honda also doesn’t tell you the dust seal—> Honda 42944-VE2-801 Dust Seal (12.7Mm) https://a.co/d/6XWw0nx will dry out and crack after 10 years but it does, and you guessed it, full disassembly is required to replace them.


#94

T

TobyU

Scott_HRR said:
I understand what you are saying but how many times have manufacturers avoided telling their customers what it really takes to maintain a specific area of their equipment? Changing the oil in the transmission isn’t necessary but full disassembly of the shaft and bushings is necessary after 10 years no matter what exterior lube you apply during the life of something that cuts grass. I only changed the trans fluid because I already had the thing out on the bench. Glad I did because it was full of metal shavings for 10 years from original break in. Honda also doesn’t tell you the dust seal—> Honda 42944-VE2-801 Dust Seal (12.7Mm) https://a.co/d/6XWw0nx will dry out and crack after 10 years but it does, and you guessed it, full disassembly is required to replace them.
Click to expand...
While some things aren't a bad idea to do after a long amount of service and years, I cannot agree that it's even necessary to disassemble the shaft or bushings etc after 10 years or some other arbitrary timeframe.
I am not a Honda dealer but I have seen hundreds of these mowers and thousands of other brands.
I have seen them come in under 2 years old that would hardly pull rearward and I have seen them 15 years old that were still just fine with no disassembly so it just depends on each individual mower and it's particular situation.
Keeping one clean underneath, blowing out the bushing and the shaft with very strong air pressure, lubricating from time to time is likely what kept these older ones in perfect rollback operation without any service to it.
I will also say keeping the water hose away from them also helps.


#95

S

Scott_HRR

TobyU said:
While some things aren't a bad idea to do after a long amount of service and years, I cannot agree that it's even necessary to disassemble the shaft or bushings etc after 10 years or some other arbitrary timeframe.
I am not a Honda dealer but I have seen hundreds of these mowers and thousands of other brands.
I have seen them come in under 2 years old that would hardly pull rearward and I have seen them 15 years old that were still just fine with no disassembly so it just depends on each individual mower and it's particular situation.
Keeping one clean underneath, blowing out the bushing and the shaft with very strong air pressure, lubricating from time to time is likely what kept these older ones in perfect rollback operation without any service to it.
I will also say keeping the water hose away from them also helps.
Click to expand...
Well, when you are retired what the hell else am I going to do between mounting bike riding and grand kids. :)


#96

T

TobyU

Scott_HRR said:
I understand what you are saying but how many times have manufacturers avoided telling their customers what it really takes to maintain a specific area of their equipment? Changing the oil in the transmission isn’t necessary but full disassembly of the shaft and bushings is necessary after 10 years no matter what exterior lube you apply during the life of something that cuts grass. I only changed the trans fluid because I already had the thing out on the bench. Glad I did because it was full of metal shavings for 10 years from original break in. Honda also doesn’t tell you the dust seal—> Honda 42944-VE2-801 Dust Seal (12.7Mm) https://a.co/d/6XWw0nx will dry out and crack after 10 years but it does, and you guessed it, full disassembly is required to replace them.
Click to expand...
While some things aren't a bad idea to do after a long amount of service and years, I cannot agree that it's even necessary to disassemble the shaft or bushings etc after 10 years or some other arbitrary timeframe.
I am not a Honda dealer but I have seen hundreds of these mowers and thousands of other brands.
I have seen them come in under 2 years old that would hardly pull rearward and I have seen them 15 years old that were still just fine with no disassembly so it just depends on each individual mower and it's particular situation.
Scott_HRR said:
Well, when you are retired what the hell else am I going to do between mounting bike riding and grand kids. :)
Click to expand...
Yes, there is quite a difference. I used to basically be retired as I only worked on Saturdays and piddled all week long. Then I opened my lawn mower repair shop and since then I've done so many thousands of mowers that I have lost count.
I had 52 of them lined up in queue all season long until August.
I started out cutting off the list at 25 which was actually 27 because I always allow for a little smidge more. LOL then within a couple of years I was up to 50 plus my smidge of two more.
It's actually very frustrating and one of the reasons I will quit doing it eventually is because of the volume.
When you're this busy and stay this far behind, you don't have time for anything extra especially not on your own equipment.


#97

S

Scott_HRR

Thankfully I have many interest, one of which is small engine equipment. But I love Mountain Bike’s and work on those as well. In addition I have been a gun enthusiast since I was a teenager and I reload. Camping with our travel trailer is also another one. Oh…and plenty of Honey-Do’s


#98

S

Scott_HRR

Here is what the bushing and seal looked like. After replacing everything the wheel have less play and dirt won’t be getting into the bearing area.

IMG_0965.jpeg


#99

T

TobyU

Scott_HRR said:
Here is what the bushing and seal looked like. After replacing everything the wheel have less play and dirt won’t be getting into the bearing area.

View attachment 67414
Click to expand...
For most people, dirt and water or at least moisture will certainly be getting back into the bearing area. Lol
That's a lot of the problem to begin with.
In many areas, it's always very damn once you start cutting the grass and then you have people who get water hoses near their lawn mowers which I am firmly against.
On top of this, it's a fairly bad design that doesn't really make a strong attempt to keep a sealed surface or a lubricated surface but rather puts what is more akin to a dust seal. 😂
Like I mentioned in one of my other posts on this, if you simply flip the mower on each side and use a very good lubricant, (my favorite is Lucas chain lube) to soak the inside part of the shaft and let it run down the shaft towards the wheel that's on the bottom when you have the mower leaned on that side - then rotate the wheel back and forth several times and do two or three quick applications of the chain lube - you can get plenty of lubricant in that area and keep these things from seizing up or getting increased rotational resistance or pitting etc.
I also do the outer side for the wheel that would be on the top and let it soak down towards the middle too.
This is all quick and easy and doesn't actually incur any extra expensive buying parts to replace etc.
It gets the job done and keeps the mower pulling backwards like it should and has the same end result and longevity of any other type of repair for these.
I simply don't see the reason to take the time and disassemble, by parts, giving Honda or anyone else more money...when it makes no difference in the long run and within a season or two you can easily be back in the same position with hard to pull back if the mower is used in the exact same conditions it has been.
I know I might be a little weird but most of my decisions and preferences are based on many previous experiences and highly leaning towards the quickest, most efficient, cheapest methods to accomplish the needed task.
I don't understand people who are overachievers or he wants to do things in a way they say or think is "better" when the real world difference is negligible or nonexistent anywhere but in their own mind.
It reminds me of a friend of mine whose father was a GM retiree who of course owned lots of new GM cars over the years.
This friend would always go by ACDelco parts for his cars. It made him feel all warm and fuzzy and actually sleep better at night!
That is the expression but I really believe it what's true for him.
Peace of mind but in reality it was just a false sense of security.
He could have bought parts that were the same quality IF NOT BETTER from several other brands and save money doing it and been able to pick them up at multiple locations closer to him than going to a dealer.
I don't know, I guess I should stop trying to figure it out.
I am happy though that I have found lots of quick and easy ways to solve problems and how to keep them soft differently than most of the mainstream ways.
It still irks me to no end though.
John Deere service manual for an sb14 mower for the belt replacement says step 1: remove engine from deck.
What a waste of time and even an increased risk of scratching up the paint on the deck and possibly losing parts or bolts when it's not necessary in any way.
It's not even faster.
All you have to do is loosen up the bolts and slide the belt right underneath.


#100

woodstover

woodstover

Horsehockey said:
Link to Dave's video didn't work for me for some reason. Alternative link or search ideas? Thank you.
Click to expand...


#101

S

Scott_HRR

Well, the video is right on the money. The bushings have a pretty tight tolerance and once the shaft starts to rust in this area it doesn’t take long before the wheels will slide when you pull it backwards. Like I said before; Honda built a very high quality, zero-thrust transmission for this mower that normally has some resistance to turning all by itself. Add some debris to the shaft bushing and maybe a little dirt & grime to the wheel cog gears and the wheels will lock up when you pull it backwards.

In my work life (now retired) I worked with engineers every day so I like to dig into things to see how they are designed and function, even a silly lawn mower. For an average home owner that is not mechanically inclined owning an HRR that has developed this problem could be rather frustrating since Honda doesn’t specifically mention this type of maintenance. Cleaning the drive cogs so the wheels move freely is only 1/2 the maintenance. Flipping the mower on it’s side and spraying penetrating oil or lubricant in the bushing area will get you by but once the seals fail (like in my case) you will need to go in and get the bushing and seals replaced.


#102

T

TobyU

Scott_HRR said:
Well, the video is right on the money. The bushings have a pretty tight tolerance and once the shaft starts to rust in this area it doesn’t take long before the wheels will slide when you pull it backwards. Like I said before; Honda built a very high quality, zero-thrust transmission for this mower that normally has some resistance to turning all by itself. Add some debris to the shaft bushing and maybe a little dirt & grime to the wheel cog gears and the wheels will lock up when you pull it backwards.

In my work life (now retired) I worked with engineers every day so I like to dig into things to see how they are designed and function, even a silly lawn mower. For an average home owner that is not mechanically inclined owning an HRR that has developed this problem could be rather frustrating since Honda doesn’t specifically mention this type of maintenance. Cleaning the drive cogs so the wheels move freely is only 1/2 the maintenance. Flipping the mower on it’s side and spraying penetrating oil or lubricant in the bushing area will get you by but once the seals fail (like in my case) you will need to go in and get the bushing and seals replaced.
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Nah, no parts needed. Just more or better lube. The "seals" are pretty lame at sealing even if new.
IIRC they are only on one side.
I will again say people should keep water and hoses and pressure washers fat away from mowers.


#103

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Scott_HRR

TobyU said:
Nah, no parts needed. Just more or better lube. The "seals" are pretty lame at sealing even if new.
IIRC they are only on one side.
I will again say people should keep water and hoses and pressure washers fat away from mowers.
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Its rye grass that kills all mowers no matter how much lube you spray all over the place which is why I stopped growing it in the winter. I know there are areas where rye is what they grow in the summer, and all I can say is good luck.


#104

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TobyU

Scott_HRR said:
Its rye grass that kills all mowers no matter how much lube you spray all over the place which is why I stopped growing it in the winter. I know there are areas where rye is what they grow in the summer, and all I can say is good luck.
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For most people, grass ends up being whatever grass they happen to have in their lawn.
For some, calling it a lawn is a stretch. LOL
Grass berries differently around the country or even the world I assume but you get what you get.
Other people's types of grass may be different than what I am accustomed to in the Midwest and specifically Southwest Ohio.
Here, no parts need to be replaced.
It takes a minimum of two seasons for a Honda to get a little stiff to pull backwards for most people but a lot of people never have an issue.
I don't know if this is because they actually pull the mower backwards more often or because they know when it's dryer out or they keep the water hose far away from their machine but that's what I find..
If they are lubricated as part of a normal annual service/maintenance, they can easily go 15 plus years or beyond the expected lifespan of the mower and never have to have any of these parts replaced and still be pulling back just fine.
Other people, in other conditions may notice far different results.
All I can state and comment on are the results I see from the many thousands of lawn mowers I have done commercially since 2011.


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