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Exmark engine oil substitute
#1
B
Born2Mow
B
Born2Mow
Full synthetic 10W30 is easy enough to find, but the Exmark maintenance manual is asking for API rating SF/SG which has the ZDDP zinc additive package to protect camshafts. Most of your common oils these days are rated SL/SN/SM and are designed for cars with catalytic converters. Those oils don't have the zinc additives because they kill the catalytic converters.
You can get regular mineral oil with the correct rating, but it's very hard to find in Full-Synthetic. Where can one find the correct substitute engine oils ?
Apologies if this has been discussed. I did do a search. Thanks in advance.
You can get regular mineral oil with the correct rating, but it's very hard to find in Full-Synthetic. Where can one find the correct substitute engine oils ?
Apologies if this has been discussed. I did do a search. Thanks in advance.
#2
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
As far as i know Mineral Oil is mainly used for breaking in engines. I may be wrong on that though.
i just read on the Exmark website and they say their oils meet or exceed API 'SL' and JASO standards. You might look at Kinetix brand oil, or look at Kawasaki's K-Tech engine oil specs.
Is this an Exmark branded engine? or Kawasaki or kohler?
i just read on the Exmark website and they say their oils meet or exceed API 'SL' and JASO standards. You might look at Kinetix brand oil, or look at Kawasaki's K-Tech engine oil specs.
Is this an Exmark branded engine? or Kawasaki or kohler?
#3
cpurvis
cpurvis
Rotella T6 5w-40.
#4
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
***caution*** opinion ahead.
If you want to use synthetic oil go ahead but...... synthetic oils used in automobiles allow those engines to longer between oil changes before the base oil starts breaking down. Synthetics don't offer better lubrication than mineral oils. They take heat better and last longer. All that us not all that helpful in a small engine unless you want to go long periods between oil changes which may not be the best thing for small engines.
Oils designated for automotive use have little to no ZDDP in them per government rules. Oils not intended for automotive use can have higher levels of ZDDP. ZDDP is an anti wear additive added to oils to help with wear on flat tappet cams in automotive engines with high valve spring pressures. Small engines have much lower spring pressures. Most you can compress with fingers. ZDDP additive is not that important in a small engine vs. Something like a high revving V8 with a flat tappet cam. Use whatever oil you want and have confidence in but a non synthetic SJ rated 30wt or 10w30 without ZDDP package will work fine. The most important thing is not how expensive the oil you use is but how often do you change the oil? The stuff that turn the oil black is the same whether synthetic or non synthetic oil is used. The more often you get that out or the engine the longer the engine will last. You can leave oil in too long but you can't change it too often.
***end of opinion***
If you want to use synthetic oil go ahead but...... synthetic oils used in automobiles allow those engines to longer between oil changes before the base oil starts breaking down. Synthetics don't offer better lubrication than mineral oils. They take heat better and last longer. All that us not all that helpful in a small engine unless you want to go long periods between oil changes which may not be the best thing for small engines.
Oils designated for automotive use have little to no ZDDP in them per government rules. Oils not intended for automotive use can have higher levels of ZDDP. ZDDP is an anti wear additive added to oils to help with wear on flat tappet cams in automotive engines with high valve spring pressures. Small engines have much lower spring pressures. Most you can compress with fingers. ZDDP additive is not that important in a small engine vs. Something like a high revving V8 with a flat tappet cam. Use whatever oil you want and have confidence in but a non synthetic SJ rated 30wt or 10w30 without ZDDP package will work fine. The most important thing is not how expensive the oil you use is but how often do you change the oil? The stuff that turn the oil black is the same whether synthetic or non synthetic oil is used. The more often you get that out or the engine the longer the engine will last. You can leave oil in too long but you can't change it too often.
***end of opinion***
#5
7394
7394
Rotella T4, 15w-40 1,200 ppm of zinc.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
Every mower, chain saw & tractor shop on the planet.
Most keep both mower branded and general oils for mowers
Sorry but that rule out Wally , Lowes & most auto stores
The latter generally sell mower oils for higher prices than mower shops but people are brainwashed that NAPA will always be cheaper.
B
bertsmobile1
Full synthetic 10W30 is easy enough to find, but the Exmark maintenance manual is asking for API rating SF/SG which has the ZDDP zinc additive package to protect camshafts. Most of your common oils these days are rated SL/SN/SM and are designed for cars with catalytic converters. Those oils don't have the zinc additives because they kill the catalytic converters.
You can get regular mineral oil with the correct rating, but it's very hard to find in Full-Synthetic. Where can one find the correct substitute engine oils ?
Apologies if this has been discussed. I did do a search. Thanks in advance.
Every mower, chain saw & tractor shop on the planet.
Most keep both mower branded and general oils for mowers
Sorry but that rule out Wally , Lowes & most auto stores
The latter generally sell mower oils for higher prices than mower shops but people are brainwashed that NAPA will always be cheaper.
#7
cpurvis
cpurvis
Does the Rotella T6 5w-40 not have the 1200 ppm of zinc like T4 has?Rotella T4, 15w-40 1,200 ppm of zinc.
#8
D
Darryl G
D
Darryl G
I run straight 30 Kawi oil in my engines. It seems like I get a lot more consumption if I use 10w30
#9
B
bertsmobile1
so you tend to get more weeping when stationary and more burning on start up
But because most synthetics are ashless there is little to no tell tale smoke thus the need to be that little more vigilant with the oil checking when running on fully synthetics.
B
bertsmobile1
That is because when stone cold which is most of the time the oil strait 30W oil is twice as thick as the 10W 30I run straight 30 Kawi oil in my engines. It seems like I get a lot more consumption if I use 10w30
so you tend to get more weeping when stationary and more burning on start up
But because most synthetics are ashless there is little to no tell tale smoke thus the need to be that little more vigilant with the oil checking when running on fully synthetics.
#10
B
Born2Mow
Ahh ! I see the problem. I'm coming at this starting from the classic and vintage motorcycle world. Older motorcycles from the 50's, 60's and 70's also require SF/SG rated oils. My Exmark mower store is 50 miles away. I was trying to keep from making this a regular trip. I'll look for a local non-Exmark dealer with the correct oil grades.
Thanks !
B
Born2Mow
Every mower, chain saw & tractor shop on the planet.
Most keep both mower branded and general oils for mowers
Sorry but that rule out Wally , Lowes & most auto stores
The latter generally sell mower oils for higher prices than mower shops but people are brainwashed that NAPA will always be cheaper.
Ahh ! I see the problem. I'm coming at this starting from the classic and vintage motorcycle world. Older motorcycles from the 50's, 60's and 70's also require SF/SG rated oils. My Exmark mower store is 50 miles away. I was trying to keep from making this a regular trip. I'll look for a local non-Exmark dealer with the correct oil grades.
Thanks !
#11
B
Born2Mow
I've been studying engine oils for the last 15 years. This jives completely with my understanding. Thanks.
B
Born2Mow
***caution*** opinion ahead.
If you want to use synthetic oil go ahead but...... synthetic oils used in automobiles allow those engines to longer between oil changes before the base oil starts breaking down. Synthetics don't offer better lubrication than mineral oils. They take heat better and last longer. All that us not all that helpful in a small engine unless you want to go long periods between oil changes which may not be the best thing for small engines.
Oils designated for automotive use have little to no ZDDP in them per government rules. Oils not intended for automotive use can have higher levels of ZDDP. ZDDP is an anti wear additive added to oils to help with wear on flat tappet cams in automotive engines with high valve spring pressures. Small engines have much lower spring pressures. Most you can compress with fingers. ZDDP additive is not that important in a small engine vs. Something like a high revving V8 with a flat tappet cam. Use whatever oil you want and have confidence in but a non synthetic SJ rated 30wt or 10w30 without ZDDP package will work fine. The most important thing is not how expensive the oil you use is but how often do you change the oil? The stuff that turn the oil black is the same whether synthetic or non synthetic oil is used. The more often you get that out or the engine the longer the engine will last. You can leave oil in too long but you can't change it too often.
I've been studying engine oils for the last 15 years. This jives completely with my understanding. Thanks.
#12
7394
Cpurvis- I really don't know about the T6, other than it is not JASO rated on the label on back.
When I called Shell Rotella I told the tech what I had (solid lifter) air cooled Kawasaki mower. He immediately brought up the T4 & explained that it is not for anything with cat convertors. etc.. But ideal for solid lifter engines & rated for my engine as well.
7394
Does the Rotella T6 5w-40 not have the 1200 ppm of zinc like T4 has?
Cpurvis- I really don't know about the T6, other than it is not JASO rated on the label on back.
When I called Shell Rotella I told the tech what I had (solid lifter) air cooled Kawasaki mower. He immediately brought up the T4 & explained that it is not for anything with cat convertors. etc.. But ideal for solid lifter engines & rated for my engine as well.
#13
B
Born2Mow
B
Born2Mow
Sorry, for the confusion. I use the term "mineral oil" to describe standard, non-synthetic engine oils.As far as i know Mineral Oil is mainly used for breaking in engines.
#15
S
slomo
S
slomo
Synthetic oils have nothing to do with longer drain intervals. Just saying. That is a marketing/sales gimmick.***caution*** opinion ahead.
If you want to use synthetic oil go ahead but...... synthetic oils used in automobiles allow those engines to longer between oil changes before the base oil starts breaking down. Synthetics don't offer better lubrication than mineral oils. They take heat better and last longer. All that us not all that helpful in a small engine unless you want to go long periods between oil changes which may not be the best thing for small engines.
Oils designated for automotive use have little to no ZDDP in them per government rules. Oils not intended for automotive use can have higher levels of ZDDP. ZDDP is an anti wear additive added to oils to help with wear on flat tappet cams in automotive engines with high valve spring pressures. Small engines have much lower spring pressures. Most you can compress with fingers. ZDDP additive is not that important in a small engine vs. Something like a high revving V8 with a flat tappet cam. Use whatever oil you want and have confidence in but a non synthetic SJ rated 30wt or 10w30 without ZDDP package will work fine. The most important thing is not how expensive the oil you use is but how often do you change the oil? The stuff that turn the oil black is the same whether synthetic or non synthetic oil is used. The more often you get that out or the engine the longer the engine will last. You can leave oil in too long but you can't change it too often.
***end of opinion***
#16
S
slomo
slomo
S
slomo
It's petroleum oil not mineral oil.Sorry, for the confusion. I use the term "mineral oil" to describe standard, non-synthetic engine oils.
slomo
#17
S
slomo
Zinc and cat converters is a no-no as Hammer said. STP Oil Treatment is full of zinc if you need it.
I would use the engine manufactures recommended oil and not lose sleep. LIke Hammer said, change it offen. These only hold mere ounces of oil guys. Not like you are filling up a V-12 generator with 27 gallons. Plain old 30w has been used in millions of mowers with zero issues.
slomo
S
slomo
Synthetics do/can offer better lubrication. Trouble is in America, there is NO governing board that requires an oil company to actually put real synthetic anything oil related IN the bottle. European countries DO require this. If their oil says synthetic, you have it inside. In the USA, a company could put 1% of an additive pack only and label it synthetic on the bottle. And the base stock is nothing but petroleum grade slime. If you want a real FULL synthetic, look at Redline. This also falls in line with pricing. Notice how the synthetic labeled Mobile 1 is so cheap at walmart? Go price Redline and see the difference.***caution*** opinion ahead.
If you want to use synthetic oil go ahead but...... synthetic oils used in automobiles allow those engines to longer between oil changes before the base oil starts breaking down. Synthetics don't offer better lubrication than mineral oils. They take heat better and last longer. All that us not all that helpful in a small engine unless you want to go long periods between oil changes which may not be the best thing for small engines.
Oils designated for automotive use have little to no ZDDP in them per government rules. Oils not intended for automotive use can have higher levels of ZDDP. ZDDP is an anti wear additive added to oils to help with wear on flat tappet cams in automotive engines with high valve spring pressures. Small engines have much lower spring pressures. Most you can compress with fingers. ZDDP additive is not that important in a small engine vs. Something like a high revving V8 with a flat tappet cam. Use whatever oil you want and have confidence in but a non synthetic SJ rated 30wt or 10w30 without ZDDP package will work fine. The most important thing is not how expensive the oil you use is but how often do you change the oil? The stuff that turn the oil black is the same whether synthetic or non synthetic oil is used. The more often you get that out or the engine the longer the engine will last. You can leave oil in too long but you can't change it too often.
***end of opinion***
Zinc and cat converters is a no-no as Hammer said. STP Oil Treatment is full of zinc if you need it.
I would use the engine manufactures recommended oil and not lose sleep. LIke Hammer said, change it offen. These only hold mere ounces of oil guys. Not like you are filling up a V-12 generator with 27 gallons. Plain old 30w has been used in millions of mowers with zero issues.
slomo
#18
7394
7394
Since Kawasaki never made any oil, their K Tech is made by outsourcing to their specs.
So just saying.. It may say Kaw on the label. But it's where they get best deal & to their requirements.
So just saying.. It may say Kaw on the label. But it's where they get best deal & to their requirements.
#19
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Way back in the dim dark ages, I studied Lubricants , cooling & cutting solutions for a 13 week term a part of a diploma course .
So while I do not consider myself to be expert in any way shape or form I am always amazed at how passionately people whose only knowledge is what is written on the bottle will argue about oils .
Engines are designed for oils with specific characterists at particular temperatures and using an oil that superceeds these specifications is generally a waste of time money & effort and in some cases can cause considerable damage where oil passageways are sized for a particular viscosity to pass a specific volume of oil over a specific amount of time under a specific pressure.
Putting a fuly synthetic oil in such engine can cause a drastic drop in oil pressure because the oil holes and running clearances are too big which causes a pressure drop sufficent to prevent proper boundry lubrication to occur .
Fully synthetic oils are of course are not made from oil that are made from gas .
But what is the gas made out of ?
the exact same bacteria as oil is made from the only difference is the time of the deposition & the pressure the deposit has been under .
So if you are making a jet engine or an F1 engine where running clearences are down to hundreths of a thou, they make a massive difference because standard oil is too thick to get between the metal surfaces
However mower engines have clearances in full thous so definately not needed
In a hydro box where the oil has to pass between the flow holes at a greater rae than between the cylinder & valve chest then the tighter specifications of fully synthetics is important .
Even then many of the fully synthetics are actually made from waste refinery gas so they started life as an oil, got gassified then returned to an oil again.
Engine oils are the most complicated liquids in common use second only to printers ink.
Any ameteur ( mself included ) who thiks they know it all about oil is playing with parts of their anatomy that mummy told them would send them blind if they did not leave it alone.
So if any one wants to put a fully synthetic, semi-synthetic oil into their engines and it makes them feel great doing it then please go ahead an do it .'
Happy people are a lot more fun to live around but please don't delude yourselve s that it will make a tinkers cures of a difference to the life or performance of your mower engine .
Mower engines are the cheapest most basic underpowered engine that it is possible to make.
ZDDP is not a particular problem to catalytic converters in the volumes used in engine oils .
The volume that sticks onto the cylinder wall then is passed into the exhaust and expelled by the engine is so miniscule you could measure it in individual molocules and has been found to have little effect on the converter
The problem is EPA regulations that consider it a "Heavy Metal Pollutant which may cause cancer in the state of California"
And yes it has been found deposited on the surface of the cat but in such small volumes that it makes no effective effect on the operation of the cat.
However under lab conditions where 100+ times the volumes that could ever be deposited by an mower engine running 24/7 for 100 years was passed over a cat it did diminish it's efficiency
So while I do not consider myself to be expert in any way shape or form I am always amazed at how passionately people whose only knowledge is what is written on the bottle will argue about oils .
Engines are designed for oils with specific characterists at particular temperatures and using an oil that superceeds these specifications is generally a waste of time money & effort and in some cases can cause considerable damage where oil passageways are sized for a particular viscosity to pass a specific volume of oil over a specific amount of time under a specific pressure.
Putting a fuly synthetic oil in such engine can cause a drastic drop in oil pressure because the oil holes and running clearances are too big which causes a pressure drop sufficent to prevent proper boundry lubrication to occur .
Fully synthetic oils are of course are not made from oil that are made from gas .
But what is the gas made out of ?
the exact same bacteria as oil is made from the only difference is the time of the deposition & the pressure the deposit has been under .
So if you are making a jet engine or an F1 engine where running clearences are down to hundreths of a thou, they make a massive difference because standard oil is too thick to get between the metal surfaces
However mower engines have clearances in full thous so definately not needed
In a hydro box where the oil has to pass between the flow holes at a greater rae than between the cylinder & valve chest then the tighter specifications of fully synthetics is important .
Even then many of the fully synthetics are actually made from waste refinery gas so they started life as an oil, got gassified then returned to an oil again.
Engine oils are the most complicated liquids in common use second only to printers ink.
Any ameteur ( mself included ) who thiks they know it all about oil is playing with parts of their anatomy that mummy told them would send them blind if they did not leave it alone.
So if any one wants to put a fully synthetic, semi-synthetic oil into their engines and it makes them feel great doing it then please go ahead an do it .'
Happy people are a lot more fun to live around but please don't delude yourselve s that it will make a tinkers cures of a difference to the life or performance of your mower engine .
Mower engines are the cheapest most basic underpowered engine that it is possible to make.
ZDDP is not a particular problem to catalytic converters in the volumes used in engine oils .
The volume that sticks onto the cylinder wall then is passed into the exhaust and expelled by the engine is so miniscule you could measure it in individual molocules and has been found to have little effect on the converter
The problem is EPA regulations that consider it a "Heavy Metal Pollutant which may cause cancer in the state of California"
And yes it has been found deposited on the surface of the cat but in such small volumes that it makes no effective effect on the operation of the cat.
However under lab conditions where 100+ times the volumes that could ever be deposited by an mower engine running 24/7 for 100 years was passed over a cat it did diminish it's efficiency
#20
7394
7394
................................................
#21
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
morse code? 
#22
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
.. _. . . _.. ._ _... . . ._.
#23
7394
7394
»↰↱«......↺↹↭⇎⇎↫↬⇶⇴⇚
#24
A
AdamE
A
AdamE
I didn't see it mentioned here, but I just stopped to buy a filter and oil for my new Exmark Radius for it's 5 hour oil change. I was expecting to pay $20/quart for the Exmark oil, but the owner of the mower place where I bought the mower said they only use Kinetix oil. It says right on the label it contains Zinc. The website says "Designed for lawn & garden, turf & grounds care, agricultural, heavy-duty commercial, construction and industrial diesel and gasoline powered engines".
The best part was that it was only $3.99/qt.
Anyone ever hear of it?
The best part was that it was only $3.99/qt.
Anyone ever hear of it?
#25
7394
7394
Not till now, what weight are you using ? Which engine does yours have ?
#26
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
Don't know who makes it. But i think Kinetix oil is a house brand for Power Distributors. Probably the same oil the refiner makes for other brands. Bottle just says Kinetix. Probably a very good oil.I didn't see it mentioned here, but I just stopped to buy a filter and oil for my new Exmark Radius for it's 5 hour oil change. I was expecting to pay $20/quart for the Exmark oil, but the owner of the mower place where I bought the mower said they only Kinetix oil. It says right on the label it contains Zinc. The website says "Designed for lawn & garden, turf & grounds care, agricultural, heavy-duty commercial, construction and industrial diesel and gasoline powered engines".
The best part was that it was only $3.99/qt.
Anyone ever here of it?
#27
B
Born2Mow
B
Born2Mow
Does the bottle have a circular seal indicating the API rating of the oil ? If it is what they say, then it should be rated for service SF or SG.
Looks like this.
Looks like this.
#28
cpurvis
cpurvis
I used to think that, too, until they took the zinc out to accomodate catalytic converters. Some oils that meet API ratings don't meet some manufacturers ratings anymore. Mobil Delvac is one.Does the bottle have a circular seal indicating the API rating of the oil ? If it is what they say, then it should be rated for service SF or SG.
Looks like this.
#29
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
From website
Attachments
#30
B
Born2Mow
This oil is rated SJ. Web site: https://www.kinetix-products.com/engine-oil
>> Something very suspicious about this product. Usually the web site will have an "About Us" section that says "we are private business based in Houston" or some such. There is no street address and no other detail.
B
Born2Mow
And the API service rating advanced to SH.... and is now at SN. But I believe that all oils rated SF/SG still have the zinc package. These are commonly labeled "for racing", "motorcycle" or some other title that precludes use in street vehicles with catalytic converters.I used to think that, too, until they took the zinc out to accommodate catalytic converters.
This oil is rated SJ. Web site: https://www.kinetix-products.com/engine-oil
>> Something very suspicious about this product. Usually the web site will have an "About Us" section that says "we are private business based in Houston" or some such. There is no street address and no other detail.
#31
A
AdamE
A
AdamE
They recommended 10W-30. I have the Exmark engine.Not till now, what weight are you using ? Which engine does yours have ?
#32
F
fixit1ddh
F
fixit1ddh
I have only had 1 engine give up the ghost. My oldest briggs i own I bought new in 1966 and it runs like new yet. From My experience the biggest problem with oil is how the equipment is treated. I allways warm up My equipment and let them cool down before shutting them off. I was a automotive mechanic in the late 60's and in the 70's was a lawnmower mech. Treatment of equipment is 99.99% but that's what I observed. I Myself run detergent Walmart blue bottle cheapest oil i can buy in everything I own. Other then the Diesel farm tractor. That one briggs that gave up the ghost had synthetic oil in it 2 days before it blew up.
#33
B
bbarras85
B
bbarras85
I have a gator tail surface drive mud motor and a 42” quest. My gator tail mechanic told me years ago to use rotella 15w 40. I use this in all mowers, generators etc
#34
B
Born2Mow
The EPA is changing fuel and lubricating oils to cut air pollution. Many tips concerning gasoline and oils that served our fathers well, no longer apply. In fact, a lot of those tips will actually do your engine harm now. It's a whole new ball game, and re-education on these topics is required.
B
Born2Mow
Rotella is a diesel engine oil. Initially, the "zinc package" (to benefit camshafts) was removed from auto oils because of the catalytic converter on newer cars. But diesels don't have the 'cat', and so the zinc remained. However, the newest diesel oils no longer have the zinc package either. So the recommendation from "years ago" is not the hot ticket it once was.I have a gator tail surface drive mud motor and a 42” quest. My gator tail mechanic told me years ago to use Rotella 15W40. I use this in all mowers, generators etc.
The EPA is changing fuel and lubricating oils to cut air pollution. Many tips concerning gasoline and oils that served our fathers well, no longer apply. In fact, a lot of those tips will actually do your engine harm now. It's a whole new ball game, and re-education on these topics is required.
#35
S
slomo
S
slomo
All the sulfur pulled out of Diesel fuel. Diesel oils getting stripped out like Born2mow said. Now a 15w-40 is plain old car oil. Guys buying it think it's the cat's meow. It's nothing special other than the enormous price.
I too run wallys mart Supertech blue bottle in everything.
slomo
I too run wallys mart Supertech blue bottle in everything.
slomo
#36
7394
7394
Price is like $12. per gallon.