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This is on a scag 61. Horizontal engine.

Only one place to get a prybar under the fly wheel at, being there's not much room without taking the intake off. So with the one place to pry from, using the snap-on air hammer, didn't do the trick. So I've got the puller on it, and using the tire shops snap-on 1/2" impact. And still nothing.
Just wondering, (I've applied penetrating oi) if I keep the puller attached, with a lot of pressure on it, will that usually free it up? I've never had any luck with it getting easier when doing the same process with rear axle wheels.

I've gotta change the front crank seal.

Are you using a harmonic balancer puller? If so tighten down good and tight then with a brass hammer (2lb or larger) give the center forcing screw a good smack. It may several times tightening and smacking but it should come off the taper. Probably someone over torqued the retaining screw.

Kinda wish there was a four point version.

StarTech said:

Are you using a harmonic balancer puller? If so tighten down good and tight then with a brass hammer (2lb or larger) give the center forcing screw a good smack. It may several times tightening and smacking but it should come off the taper. Probably someone over torqued the retaining screw.

Kinda wish there was a four point version.

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I had to use the 1/2 impact to get the center bolt loose.

I've used the big air hammer on the center puller stud, and still nothing yet.

The puller I'm using, i'm not sure what it's for. It's the same ones you get off the shelf at the parts stores. I've used it a few times before @bertsmobile1 told me about the air hammer, pry bar trick. I've never had this much trouble out of a flywheel.

This is the puller that is listed in the service manual which is a harmonic pulley puller type.

In that case it will be heat and lots of it.
How did you do up the puller ?
I have found doing it up with the impact driver works wonders to shift over tightened tapers.
back it off to just finger tight, cook the flywheel, take your time or it will crack the when sizzleing spit hot hit the puller with the impact gun.
No joy then go with the pry bar & hammer while the puller is in place.

NB too much heat can soften the glue holding the alternator magnets on so check them very carefully when you get it off

StarTech said:

This is the puller that is listed in the service manual which is a harmonic pulley puller type.
View attachment 55431

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It looks almost exactly like that. Just didn't come in the case. It's doing it's job. Except the impact I'm using is starting to bend the smaller bolts that screw into flywheel.

Yelp it happens. over the years I replace several of the those screw. Most that comes with the kits are just barely a grade 5.

One thing to note from the service manual is that if the engine has a high amp stator the magnets are going to be extra strong.

PTmowerMech said:

I had to use the 1/2 impact to get the center bolt loose.

I've used the big air hammer on the center puller stud, and still nothing yet.

The puller I'm using, i'm not sure what it's for. It's the same ones you get off the shelf at the parts stores. I've used it a few times before @bertsmobile1 told me about the air hammer, pry bar trick. I've never had this much trouble out of a flywheel.

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What is this 'big air hammer' of which you speak? The aforementioned 2 lb brass hammer used to give the center bolt a good whack is the best tool for that job. If you can feel any end play in the crankshaft, pull it toward you so that there is a little room for the crankshaft to move when the hammer hits the center bolt. It's the inertia of the flywheel that will pop it loose because it wants to stay still while the crank is trying to pull it toward the engine. True, the thrust bearing doesn't like this. But pounding on it with no clearance doesn't do it a lot of good, either.

The puller doesn't have to be all that tight and you don't have to hit it all that hard. Let physics do its work.

bertsmobile1 said:

In that case it will be heat and lots of it.
How did you do up the puller ?
I have found doing it up with the impact driver works wonders to shift over tightened tapers.
back it off to just finger tight, cook the flywheel, take your time or it will crack the when sizzleing spit hot hit the puller with the impact gun.
No joy then go with the pry bar & hammer while the puller is in place.

NB too much heat can soften the glue holding the alternator magnets on so check them very carefully when you get it off

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How did I "do up the puller?" I put it on normally. Used a different screw for the center, that threaded in just right, tightened by hand, the used the 3/8's air impact. That didn't work, so I used my POS 1/2". That didn't work. So then I got the good 1/2" from the tire shop side. Did that til the small bolts started bending. Then noticed it was also bending the bolt I had inside the crank. Luckily, that screwed back out easily. So I put the original bolt back in. BTW, I'm leaving enough slack in that bolt, so if the flywheel does come loose, I has about 1/8th" to move.

I tried the heat thing, just a few minutes ago. It didn't work, both times. I don't really have a good place to pry on and smack it. Gonna try the heat one more time. BTW, when you say "spit sizzle," I'm guessing you're not talking about getting it glowing red. I did get it hot and keep it that way for a few minutes. So how that one of the thin places close to the center glowed for a couple of seconds. I'm trying to keep the torched focused in on the thick center around the crank bolt.

Spitsizzle down here means around 200 C
When you spit on the part the spit can not touch it so it sort of dances over the surface till it has boiled off .

Looks like you are getting a reputation for the guy to take hopeless cases to ,

If the small bolts (screws) are bending which can happen on a two bolt pull you may need to add side supports to the puller assembly. Otherwords you have engineer a more ridge setup. So far I had only one flywheel that I couldn't pull and that was on an old Briggs Opposed engine. It was one someone installed the flywheel with an impact.

Having fun yet with that tar baby? Looks like you get all the fun ones. I can't see how much room you have to work so i don't know if any of this will work. If you remove the puller is there a few thousandths end play in the crank? Can you move the flywheel like 10 to 15 thousandths? If you can place a pry bar under and just bias the flywheel up. Don't pry it doesnt help. You need to put a bolt in the crank that you can run down snug and still let flywheel move up. You want the bolt to be solid to the crank. Get a big hand sledge like 3 or 4 lb and hit the bolt like you are really pissed. You want inertia to do the work. If there is no end play in the crank this method wont work.
What kind of torch are you using to heat it up?

At 53 ft-lb PT shouldn't be having all this problem.

And he is trying using one of those hand bottle propane it is an exercise futility. Got be using Ace/Ox torch that have enough punch to heat that big heatsink.

Yeah propane won't get it. He needs an oxy acetylene or oxy propane rig with a rosebud. Otherwise it heats too slow. I have one of the $100 chineese torch sets which is absolutely identical to the cheap Victor set and an oxygen bottle from tractor supply and a 20lb propane tank. Not quite as hot as acetylene but gets everything i need done. Oxygen tank a little pricey but exchange refills $44 plus you don't have to worry about expired tanks.

Being a horizontal e

Hammermechanicman said:

Having fun yet with that tar baby? Looks like you get all the fun ones. I can't see how much room you have to work so i don't know if any of this will work. If you remove the puller is there a few thousandths end play in the crank? Can you move the flywheel like 10 to 15 thousandths? If you can place a pry bar under and just bias the flywheel up. Don't pry it doesnt help. You need to put a bolt in the crank that you can run down snug and still let flywheel move up. You want the bolt to be solid to the crank. Get a big hand sledge like 3 or 4 lb and hit the bolt like you are really pissed. You want inertia to do the work. If there is no end play in the crank this method wont work.
What kind of torch are you using to heat it up?

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I'm using map gas. I think that's what it's called. Been a while since I actually read the label. It's the yellow canister.
I tried the method you mentioned. Pry bar behind the edge of the crank while using a big air hammer. Ended up bending that bolt. Not enough that I couldn't easily unscrew it.
I'm gonna try the heat method once more this morning. If it doesn't work, gonna call it a winner and get it back to the customer.
Other things are starting to come in. Easier repairs. I got about 4hrs in this now, and can't charge a dime.
I don't charge if I can't repair.

I haven't made it to the shop yet, maybe when I get there, the pressure I left on the flywheel with the puller, has helped.

Hammermechanicman said:

Yeah propane won't get it. He needs an oxy acetylene or oxy propane rig with a rosebud. Otherwise it heats too slow. I have one of the $100 chineese torch sets which is absolutely identical to the cheap Victor set and an oxygen bottle from tractor supply and a 20lb propane tank. Not quite as hot as acetylene but gets everything i need done. Oxygen tank a little pricey but exchange refills $44 plus you don't have to worry about expired tanks.

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I've never had too much problem using map gas.

PTmowerMech said:

I've never had too much problem using map gas.

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One problem is that they discontinued real MAPP gas in 2008 and the new stuff MAPP-pro is not near as hot as the original. If you ever try a oxy propane torch compare to propane or mapp torch you will never go back.

No telling what those tanks costs today. Mine were $300 a piece 5 years ago (125/150 cu-ft OX and 75 cu-ft ACE) so I only got two pair here. But it still cheaper than having to rent the tanks monthly especially since I don't weld as much as I did in the past.

Years ago i made the mistake of buying tanks and the welding store said they didn't pass hydrostat when they expired and they drilled holes in them. Since i have a plasma cutter and a real nice mig/stick welder i don't gas weld anymore. I use it to heat things or brazing so i just need oxy/propane. The oxy tank was like $350 and since it is exchange for refill i don't have to worry about expired tanks and hydrostat testing.

With the tank I got they get exchanged everytime I get refills so no problem of dictated tanks with my name on them. If they were the next size larger then it would be a problem here too.

Hammermechanicman said:

One problem is that they discontinued real MAPP gas in 2008 and the new stuff MAPP-pro is not near as hot as the original. If you ever try a oxy propane torch compare to propane or mapp torch you will never go back.

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I used to repair brass & copper radiators, like 30 years ago. (right here in this same shop, as a matter of fact) We used a lot of torches on a lot of different things/ (other than radiators). They were a lot better than this mapp gas I'm using. But I rarely need anything more than mapp gas.

E size tanks USED to cost about $ 200 Au to make back in the 60's and bottle rental was $ 55 /year
When Linde opened here to break the absolute monopoly of BOC they were the first to sell bottles which made good sense as it drastically reduced their inital capital outlay.
'However they were charging $ 300 per tank so making a nice little profit.
I bought a pair and never paid bottle rental till they closed down.
After that it was rent an Oxy set from a hire shop & swap bottles so again it was just the gas price + a small premium .
Then they started to bar tag the bottles to prevent this happening and after several idiots blew themselves to bits trying to decant Acetylene from a hire cylinder into their own cylinder the laws were relaxed allowing retailers to sell bottles and forcing the gas producers to refill them as was the case with propane for decades.

So it was off to the welding shop and buy new bottles at $ 500 a hit ( new bottles funny enough are down to $ 75 each to make locally and $ 20 from China ) so we are still being ripped off big time but OTOH most companies are charging the small users $ 175 to $ 235 a year rental.
Big users don't pay bottle rental at all.
Down here we use tanks ( although we do call them bottles ) slightly thicker than compressor tanks and they just get pressure tested every 10 years and have the valves replaced so it is a big con from start to finish .

Tanks here must be hydrostatic tested every 5 years. I still think they dicked me when both my tanks failed in their first test. I think they figured i would buy or leas new ones from them. Around here Airgas bought out the local welding supply shops. They canceled all the leases and made all the little guys like me come in and get a new lease at twice as much as as the old lease. I waited till my mig gas tank was empty before i brought it in. They treated me like crap and the word "theft" was part of the conversation because i did not come in when they wanted. I dropped the tank in the parking lot and went to Indiana Oxygen and got a new tank and lease. Airgas can pound sand in my book.

Small gas users are a problem and many of us fail to understand just how much it costs to collect, test refill then return tanks.
They go to their hardwear store or petrol station with their BBQ bottles, watch the attendant refill them & think it is just that easy.
Down here, every thank is inspected then tested before being filled because the filling depot does not one to go bang on the filling line.
Some are tested while they are being filled ( water displacement method ) if they are for safe stuff like air, argon, carbon dioxide etc .
So a reasonable rental & distribution cost would be around twice the gas costs.
But in a cut throat market they have adopted the screw the little guy to subsidise the big guy marketing techniques and that is what annoys me.

Simsmets was CIG's ( BOC in local drag ) biggest gas customer and paid no rental or delivery fees at all for the 22,000 ( they counted them ) gas bottles .
All of the employees used to bring their empties in & swap them for full ones when no one was looking .
On top of that we paid about 1/2 the actual gas costs as well .

Small users paid a delivery fee, bottle rental & higher gas cost.
When I had my delivery run I used to do gas bottle swaps because CIG refused to deliver past Emu Plains so from there to Mt Victoria it was do it yourself.
And that was when they charged $ 50 for pick up & delivery.
So I charged $ 40 and was doing about 20 bottles a week.
When that contract ended I was looking at doing gas bottles full time but the regulation hoops I had to go through made it an non entity.
Funny I could drive a van full of general goods into a depot, pull out 3 or more bottles , swap them over & drive out no problems.
If I had nothing but gas bottles I had to carry 1/2 dozen different gas masks, 4 different fire extinguishers , racks that retained the bottles even if the vehicle rolled over , do a 13 week TAFE course plus hold 1/2 dozen safety certificates and get them renewed annually plus pay massive lisencing fee .
No wonder the delivery fee was $ 50.

So far I haven't any problems with AirGas here other than they closed the local store and moving further out for me to go to about another 30 miles drive now.I now wait until I need a pair of tank refilled before going.

What do you need to remove the flywheel for? seal leaking?

Hammermechanicman said:

Years ago i made the mistake of buying tanks and the welding store said they didn't pass hydrostat when they expired and they drilled holes in them. Since i have a plasma cutter and a real nice mig/stick welder i don't gas weld anymore. I use it to heat things or brazing so i just need oxy/propane. The oxy tank was like $350 and since it is exchange for refill i don't have to worry about expired tanks and hydrostat testing.

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Sounds very fishy to me
Like you had been had

Scrubcadet10 said:

What do you need to remove the flywheel for? seal leaking?

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Scrub Yes he said that in post #1.

StarTech said:

Scrub Yes he said that in post #1.

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good lord, don't how i missed that
?

Scrubcadet10 said:

good lord, don't how i missed that
?

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Like me you didn't have that first pot of coffee?

StarTech said:

Like me you didn't have that first pot of coffee?

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that always helps