Buying a forever lawnmower. Lawnmower buying advice.

[dad7432]

Not Kool-Aid, just data. Today's battery powered equipment isn't like a decade or more ago. The technology has improved tremendously, and costs have improved. Battery is becoming the way to go for yard equipment just as it has for other power equipment like saws and drills. Does anyone wonder why Toro, Snapper, and STIHL make battery powered mowers now? (Maybe they drank the Kool-Aid, too.) And as it's also becoming for cars, which is why Tesla is worth more than Ford, GM, Honda, and Toyota combined. If anyone thinks gas powered equipment is "forever", I have a horse and buggy to sell you.

I disagree on so many levels.... and I WANT to get rid of dinosaur source carbon and pollution. A few weeks ago I bought one of the supposedly longest longest running and highest rated battery powered leaf blowers made. And was totally disappointed....

Despite its claim that it can run 40 minutes on a battery, the most I got was 20 minutes (at full power, which is the only useful speed). In only 20 minutes the blower stopped. The battery wasn't drained. It was over heated. So I swapped out the overheated battery for the second battery. Which overheated in 15 minutes! I swapped the batteries again and got an additional 5-10 minutes out of each, for a grand total of about 45 minutes of run time. Additional batteries cost over $200 each, about half the cost of the "kit".

The yard was half done.

I'm not sure what I am going to do with this thing.

NO, FOR GOD'S SAKE I AM NOT BUYING ANY OTHER BATTER POWERED F-ING LAWN EQUIPMENT!!!!!

 

[dad7432]

I suggest not making it so easy to be proven wrong. The photo below is the Lamborghini Revuelto, described by them as a "HPEV (High Performance Electrified Vehicle)". In case anyone's wondering, below that is the Ferrari Stradale, per them a "PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle)". Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'm with Toro, Snapper, STIHL, Lamborghini and Ferrari - and reality.

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Seriously, you are comparing apples to.... pineapples?! Sure both electric cars and battery powered lawn equipment is electric, but they got nothing else in common besides 4 wheels). Lawn equipment is produced in massive volumes, has lower barriers to entry, and costs a few hundred or thousands of bucks. Electric and hybrid cars are hundreds to thousands of times more complex and expensive. And only one company (Tesla) can be shown to have made a real profit selling them. I have my doubts that any Chinese e-car company is truly profitable. And Elon Musk's Tesla is not doing so well lately.

 

[dad7432]

GearHead36 is obviously kidding, but I'll respond for anyone who may be thinking it's correct. Criminals focus on making money. Businesses focus on satisfying their customers and those who don't, can't last long. That applies to restaurants, contractors, retailers, and car companies. The idea that a car company worth $500 billion would intentionally risk it's brand name by selling low quality product is silly.

The time rechargeable batteries last is based on how many times they are recharged not just a time period. EGO batteries typically last 500 charges or around 10 years. The idea EGO batteries last only 3 years is nonsensical. After all, 3 years is only around 75 times assuming a weekly mow,

This homeowner with 3 acres of lawn, lake and trees. I own plenty of battery powered equipment. Other than cars, I have never gotten more than 3 years out of any power equipment battery pack. ZERO. NADA.
I put it to you that for heavy duty users, those who use them at least weekly for heavy duty jobs, will be HIGHLY disappointed with battery powered lawn equipment. None of the batteries will last more than 3 years in heavy duty use. There is really NO HEAVY DUTY OR COMMERCIAL battery powered lawn equipment today.

 

[dad7432]

And so now we understand that NO manufacturer of ANY product actually wants it to work. Battery powered mowers, trimmers, tools, cars, etc are all built to the bare minimum "out the door" quality level, with every possible corner cut. And that applies to gas mowers, push mowers, scythes, clippers, all of it.

And it's all brand loyalty, as seen here where some say Toro is the very best with no returns, and others say they all come back.

I'd say that manufacturers care about quality only as long as it sells. There are entire industries where the majority of the manufacturers produce very low quality products... and yet they keep selling. The prime example is the RV industry. I thought boats had problems.... just try to get thru a year with an RV without a major issue.

 

[dad7432]

Did you really just suggest to an electrical engineer to join the 21st Century? I'd venture that I know more about the technology surrounding battery equipment than most here. I've had gas equipment, battery equipment (admittedly older equipment), riders, pushers, and even a reel mower. I've even considered robotic mowers. Spoiler alert... they're not ready yet either unless you have a yard with very specific limitations. Size, slope, number of obstacles, etc. I use whatever tool is best for the job. I think battery equipment is good for certain applications. Drills, sawzalls, impact wrenches, chainsaw maybe if you're usage is low. Batteries might be ok for trimmers & mowers too if you have a small yard. When I moved to my current property, the 48" ZTR that came with the property was taking me almost 2 hrs to do the mowing I needed. I upgraded to a commercial 54" ZTR. I'm down to a little over an hour for each mow now. I have an Echo PAS attachment system. Every mow, I also edge, trim, and blow. I use about a full tank every time. That full tank of gas is about equal to two of the large batteries on most battery trimmers, which cost more than my power head. There's NO way battery equipment would work for me. For the OP... he wanted a "forever mower". Battery mowers have not proven themselves to be worthy of the "forever" title yet. Yes, I believe they will get there, and in some cases, they can be very good solutions. If you never discharge the battery more than 50%, the battery will likely last a long time. If you never have a breakdown, you will also have a good experience. Right now, much of the battery equipment is proprietary. If you break something on that battery mower you bought at HD or Lowes... good luck getting it repaired. Most small engine shops don't work on battery equipment. An EGO battery will not work with any other mower. And an EGO battery for a riding mower will not work in an EGO trimmer. It's too big. Gasoline scales well. Fuel tanks can be various sizes, and they still use the same fuel. Gas mowers all use the same power source. A power source, by the way, that doesn't lock you into that company's battery ecosystem. The proprietary nature of battery equipment doesn't end at batteries, either. Often, the blade(s), blade adapters, spindles, etc are also proprietary. Reason being, battery packs don't have enough energy to run a blade used on a gas mower for as long as a gas mower will. They do tricks to make batteries last longer. Like drop the blade speed based on the load. Thin grass... slower blade speed. Mfrs might also decide not to support a poor selling model very long. I've heard of Kobalt mowers that were 2 yrs old that couldn't get parts. Lack of product support is not limited to battery equipment, but mfrs like Toro, Exmark, Gravely, Echo, Stihl, Husqvarna, etc tend to do better at this than, say, Kobalt. EGO, Greenworks, etc, I'm not quite sure where they fall on this spectrum. I think EGO is better than Greenworks, which is better than Kobalt.

I love technology. I have a drone. It's way cool. It levels itself, flies the direction I want it to, even in cross winds, by using an array of sensors. It feeds me a video image that is also leveled regardless of how fast or which way it's going. It can detect obstacles, and stop itself if it's going to hit something. It has some impressive technology. And it runs off batteries, which makes sense for that application.

Bottom line... use what works, but don't blow smoke up people's you-know-what to push an agenda.

The problem still is the batteries. I agree that for most commercial and heavy duty users battery powered outdoor equipment is still dependent on batteries that suck. The appliance itself is great. I have a fantastic Ego blower. Brand new. highly rated. With batteries that overheat in 15 minutes flat. Obviously battery power is not for everyone. But for those with up to a third of an acre of land to care for, I'd say that electrical power is good enough for that.

Has for the existence of global warming and climate change. Its here. Its real. People who deny it are only fooling themselves and will make it worse. We all better do something about it. Now. Today. Electricity supplied by nuclear, wind and solar (not fossils) will eventually cure it. Of that I am optimistic. But the key word is eventually. For today, if you own more than a third of an acre, an electric mower is probably not for you, but electric blowers, trimmers, etc, are all possible. In 10 years I think that the mower will be too... and much less electricity will be generated using fossil fuel.

I think we all like long lasting, powerful, quiet, and efficient power tools. I just don't think battery powered boats, cars, mowers and outdoor equipment are quite ready for the heavy duty/commercial market just yet.

 

[dad7432]

You are a ski instructor...on a mower forum... That says a lot

WOW! I have never been insulted for being a ski instructor. And you have no idea what my other interests, past jobs or educational background is.

What's your problem anyway?

You dismiss over 70 years of real statistics kept by a private company with strong incentives to survive in the real world..... Back here in the real world my ski area has had to invest millions in snowmaking tech just to remain open in a climate that has consistently warmed over the last 70 years.

You dismiss real-world statistics kept by an organization with only one goal: to stay in business. Want more real world statistics? How about 130 years of Skaneateles Lake water data temperature data collected by the city of Syracuse? The lake never hit 75 120 years ago. Now, it hits 75 every summer, and lately 80. I WAS a skeptic 20 years ago. Today I am a convinced that the end is coming for us... and its going to be the hot ending. Not ice.

The world is warming more than it would without us... Get real. WAKE UP FOOL! That's what woke means. It means you are aware of the problem. I have no problem saying I am woke to the climate crisis.

As for battery powered outdoor power equipment? Its not for everyone. But for most suburban and urban homeowners, battery powered OPE will work fine -- on smaller lots. I've had some that works, some that doesn't and no, I won't be buying any in the near future. But I own multiple acres and take care of a large community beach shared by multiple property owners. I need a blower and mower that runs for a few hours. And nobody makes that in electric.

I doubt that a battery powered anything would be useful on a commercial crew. Maybe trimmers and an electric screw driver?

But human caused global warming is real.

 

[dad7432]

Don't assume someone's age, just because we may seem "older" because we know how to judge the true quality of what we are buying doesn't mean we ARE OLD. FYI I am 13, been working on these small engines for 3 years, and have $10000 in the bank account. You may ask how I did this? I am not affected by the liberal wokeness all around me and I simply look at what has been tested and proven for many years. In case you do not know what I am talking about, it is called a gasoline engine. It has been used since 1864 and the reason it has been used to this day because of one phrase. "Complexity will lead to failure" as said above. Gasoline engines are not complex which is why they last a long time. Electric mowers on the other hand...

Your 13 year old self needs to learn something. To be "woke" is to be aware. There is no such thing as liberal wokeness. That's a phrase invented by right-wing nuts who are in active denial of real world problems. Climate change is real. Please read what I have posted on data I know to have been honestly collected.

As for battery power.... its the future kid. This 64 year old has seen how much better electrically powered devices are than they were when I was 13. If I were 13 today I'd be looking elsewhere for a long term career. Nobody is going to be making small engines in 15 or 20 years. Nobody smart gets into a dying industry.

Eventually battery/electric power is going to push gas out. Not yet. Lord knows I still own no electric car, my boats are all gas powered (even 2 stroke), my mowers and snow blower are gas. My tow vehicle is diesel power. But gas and diesel power, while they meet my needs, also suck. Engines need maintenance and repairs, they have stinky exhaust, oil needs to be mixed or changed or topped off, gas needs to be treated or it rots or gums up the fuel system. I've spilled too much gas in the lake too.

I doubt that gas will still be a popular choice in 20 years. So don't build a life around small gas powered engines. You might find yourself having more in common with a newspaper press operator and out of work in 2045.

 

[Rivets]

I’ve been servicing mowers for 50 years and Craftsman is a mower I would never recommend. A steel deck mower will never last 20 years, unless it spends 80% of its life in the shed. Craftsman parts are getting to be harder to get, as you don’t know who is manufacturing the mowers, Husqvarna and MTD. If you want a 20 year mower I still recommend a Toro 21” cast deck, personal pace model. Drive system is the best on the market.

 

[dad7432]

I digress. The Planet continues to Evolve as it always has. The Ice Age was only 15,000 years ago. Climate change is real but only a tiny percentage is caused by mankind. WE didn't start it and we Cannot stop it. A volcano emits as much crap in an eruption as we do in a Year. Learn to live with it. Adapt. Actually we have no choice.
NOTHING we can do will make a substantial difference. The continued war on Internal Combustion Engines is over 50 years old. It has resulted in Higher costs, higher repair bills, higher fuel bills and degraded performance. Efforts to improve mileage has resulted in poor engine life for every brand. The list is endless. Live life as you would like, not what the zealots and bureaucrats dictate.
Go live on a windfarm if you don't agree. Leave the rest of us alone. You're welcome.

You are simply wrong. The planet is not continuing to evolve as it always has. It is warming far faster than it ever has, and the warming in the last 150 years is directly correlated with the increase in CO2 and other global warming gases. That correlation, and other studies, have convinced almost every scientist in the world that human caused global warming is real and going to kill billions.

In addition your comment ignores how much the ICE simply polluted our air until BIG GOVERNMENT TOLD THE CAR INDUSTRY TO KNOCK IT OFF starting in the 1960s.

Did you know that the auto industry developed and tested the catalytic converter nearly 20 years before they put it on a mass produced car?

Did you know that we'd still be sitting in smog if BIG GOVERNMENT hadn't mandated that the auto industry clean up their act and use existing tech, such as those catalysts, to do so.

Did you know that the car industry used the scarcity of raw materials to prevent the introduction of catalyst technology for 20 years?

Did you know that the auto industry "found" ways solve those problems once they were told they had to, or they could not sell any more polluting cars?

Did you know that Honda found a way to avoid using a catalyst, but dropped the technology because catalysts were less expensive and complicated than their own home grown solution?

Did you know that the car industry promised to clean up exhaust in the early 1950s and then did NOTHING until Ralph Nader and California and Richard Nixon's EPA mandated clean air NOW?

Did you know that millions still die every year from pollution from wildfire smoke generated because the climate is warming?

Private industry only cares about profit. They don't care about quality per se. They care about quality if, and only if, it is either mandated (aka pollution controls) or if another company proves that quality sells (as Toyota and Honda and Nissan did in the 1970s). And even then it can be argued that Toyota, Honda, and especially Nissan has allowed quality to decline over the last 20 years in order to decrease cost (dash screens), increase "share holder value" (profits) and add features they think will sell. No manufacturer is going to build a quality item if a less expensive, more profitable product is more profitable. Sorry.