Another slope thread. Equipment advice

[mudpie]

Howdy.

I have to mow the side walls around a catch basin. Local code requires that it be kept below 1 foot, so I'm either mowing very tall grass, or mowing it often

I measured the steepest part of the slope and came up with a 48% grade (23" rise over a 48" run). That section is just below the fence in the pic, which you can see is a sizeable area. The fence is 6 feet tall, to give you an idea. The other slopes are at least a 23% grade.



So I have to buy a mower. I'm looking at used stuff in the $1500 range, thinking that maybe this time of year I can find a deal for maybe $1000-1200. Cheaper would be better, since I could then buy other stuff I need.

I've seen comments in various threads advising both for and against zero turn mowers, riders, and walk behind mowers on a slope. I suppose each has its advantages and disadvantages. None of what I've read deals with a slope this steep.

So what would you suggest? I also have to mow 2 long parking strips that are just under 6 feet wide, so I'd like to get something with at least a 36" cut so I can do the parking strip in just 2 passes rather than 3. I mention it because I don't know if deck size will make a difference on the slope.

I've considered a rider, but going up and down that slope would kill a transmission pretty quick I'd think. Is there any way to mow a slope that steep from side to side? In a perfect world, I'd prefer to just keep driving in circles around the outer slope, mowing down from top to bottom.

Any thoughts appreciated

 

[Dave1954]

Yes you could mow it side to side with a long reach set up on a tractor like the hwy dept uses but that would for sure be way above the price line, the easiest way imo, hire a couple of day laborers and give them two good string trimmers then get you a good walk behind and do the lower 1/3rd while they are doing the top 2/3s.

 

[Ric]

I think your choices are limited for what you've budgeted. I cut a lot of retention ponds and most of the time I can get by with the ztr or the stander and what I can't get to with those the 30" Turfmaster does the job. You can get either the 30" Turfmaster or Exmark new for around $1700.

 

[mudpie]

First, let me say that I very much appreciate the input.

I suppose I could come up with the money. I don't have a problem spending money if I can justify it. However, I'm seeing some stuff that seems to be a pretty good deal on craigslist in my local area, so I have to ask, right? Currently there is a guy selling a 36" Ferris walk-behind for $700 or best offer. He says it runs/cuts good, but that's all I know about it.

So what would be better, in general...a used piece of good quality equipment at a good price, or a new piece of equipment for more than twice the price, with a smaller cutting path?

As I mentioned, I'd like to be able to do my parking strips in 2 passes, not 3 with a 30 inch, or 4 with the 21 inch I have now, so I would lean toward the used Ferris unless there's some reason I shouldn't.

I also will need a trailer, and I don't want to go with a cheapie Harbor Freight type of setup. If I can save $1000 on my mower purchase, that's money I can spend elsewhere

 

[Ric]

First, let me say that I very much appreciate the input.

I suppose I could come up with the money. I don't have a problem spending money if I can justify it. However, I'm seeing some stuff that seems to be a pretty good deal on craigslist in my local area, so I have to ask, right? Currently there is a guy selling a 36" Ferris walk-behind for $700 or best offer. He says it runs/cuts good, but that's all I know about it.

So what would be better, in general...a used piece of good quality equipment at a good price, or a new piece of equipment for more than twice the price, with a smaller cutting path?

As I mentioned, I'd like to be able to do my parking strips in 2 passes, not 3 with a 30 inch, or 4 with the 21 inch I have now, so I would lean toward the used Ferris unless there's some reason I shouldn't.

I also will need a trailer, and I don't want to go with a cheapie Harbor Freight type of setup. If I can save $1000 on my mower purchase, that's money I can spend elsewhere

So what would be better, in general...a used piece of good quality equipment at a good price, or a new piece of equipment for more than twice the price, with a smaller cutting path?
That is a good question and it would depend on who you are and what you know and believe. I don't know what your Ferris is but I do know that 36" walk behind isn't as easy to use as they seem. I don't and most people don't sell equipment without a reason, especially that cheap.

Ask yourself these questions before you buy used: How has the machine been taken care of, Is the Ferris a hydraulic drive or is it belt drive, what type of engine does it have, has anything like pulleys, spindles, drives and belts been replaced and how many hours are on the machine and most importantly can I fix the thing myself so it's not costing me $65 to $70 an hour bench rate plus parts at a dealership.

My theory is if a used piece of equipment is as good as what they (the sellers) are claiming why are they selling it and why so cheap or is it because they know it's going to become a money pit shortly and they don't want to mess with the thing.

On the other hand either one of the 30" mowers are new with a top of the line Kawasaki Commercial grade engine and have a 3 year warranty that Toro or Exmark will stand behind. The thing is I sold a 36" G1336 commercial walk behind and purchased the Toro Turf-Master and I can tell even though its cut isn't as wide it's twice as fast as the 36" and a lot easier to use and handle and cheaper to run than the G1336 and the 30" can save you up to 40% time wise over a 21" mower

There are just to many questions about used equipment to be asked not that you can't occasionally come across something that isn't a good buy but it's rare. Most of the time it ends up with you paying more for a used piece of equipment in the end than you would of for something new. JMO and experience.

 

[bertsmobile1]

First, let me say that I very much appreciate the input.

I suppose I could come up with the money. I don't have a problem spending money if I can justify it. However, I'm seeing some stuff that seems to be a pretty good deal on craigslist in my local area, so I have to ask, right? Currently there is a guy selling a 36" Ferris walk-behind for $700 or best offer. He says it runs/cuts good, but that's all I know about it.

So what would be better, in general...a used piece of good quality equipment at a good price, or a new piece of equipment for more than twice the price, with a smaller cutting path?

As I mentioned, I'd like to be able to do my parking strips in 2 passes, not 3 with a 30 inch, or 4 with the 21 inch I have now, so I would lean toward the used Ferris unless there's some reason I shouldn't.

I also will need a trailer, and I don't want to go with a cheapie Harbor Freight type of setup. If I can save $1000 on my mower purchase, that's money I can spend elsewhere

If you have a lot of slopes then the go is 2 strokes ( if they are legal in your area ) or one of the older tractor type mowers with a horizontal crank.
While there are some stability problems mowing across slopes the biggest problem is the oil pump ends up higher than the oil after which the rod takes a trip out through the crank.
Zero turns all tend to have quite high cog's so are also prone to tipping over going across slopes, particularly if you are going way too fast.
The other biggie is the poor weight distribution.
To allow the castor wheels at the front to swivel easily most are balanced with the engine conterbalancing the deck, thus going up hill is highly likely to do a wheelie & dump you out over the back. OTOH they do happily mow down or across down a reasonable slope. The counter weights clipped on the front do not seem to be up to the job.

If it was my problem I would be looking at a Cub Cadet 2000 series with a 3 blade deck I think they come in 44" 46" 48" & 52".
The bigger decks are semi floating.
They were a very popular unit with commercial mowing companies who did a lot of domestic work before z turns became king.

Having said this the same problems you have already been alerted to still exist mowers are not status symbols like cars so don't get traded every 3 years for a newer model. Contractors will run them until they start to become uneconomic and domestic owners usually keep them till they are dead.

Also you need to check out the ground speed some mowers mow a lot faster than others although extreme slopes are not places for going fast and then there is the Hp to Blade length ratio.
While a bigger engine will not go 1 foot faster, it will ( or should ) be able to handle heavier cutting loads.
Also dont foget the rule of 1/3rds, cutting any more than 1/3 the grass height is slashing, not mowing and you are looking at different types of equipment.
For instance if you have car access you might do better with a tow behind hanging off your pick up which would be a lot safer considering the slopes or a small farm tractor with a flail mower

 

[Ric]

If you have a lot of slopes then the go is 2 strokes ( if they are legal in your area ) or one of the older tractor type mowers with a horizontal crank.
While there are some stability problems mowing across slopes the biggest problem is the oil pump ends up higher than the oil after which the rod takes a trip out through the crank.
Zero turns all tend to have quite high cog's so are also prone to tipping over going across slopes, particularly if you are going way too fast.
The other biggie is the poor weight distribution.
To allow the castor wheels at the front to swivel easily most are balanced with the engine conterbalancing the deck, thus going up hill is highly likely to do a wheelie & dump you out over the back. OTOH they do happily mow down or across down a reasonable slope. The counter weights clipped on the front do not seem to be up to the job.

If it was my problem I would be looking at a Cub Cadet 2000 series with a 3 blade deck I think they come in 44" 46" 48" & 52".
The bigger decks are semi floating.
They were a very popular unit with commercial mowing companies who did a lot of domestic work before z turns became king.

Having said this the same problems you have already been alerted to still exist mowers are not status symbols like cars so don't get traded every 3 years for a newer model. Contractors will run them until they start to become uneconomic and domestic owners usually keep them till they are dead.

Also you need to check out the ground speed some mowers mow a lot faster than others although extreme slopes are not places for going fast and then there is the Hp to Blade length ratio.
While a bigger engine will not go 1 foot faster, it will ( or should ) be able to handle heavier cutting loads.
Also dont foget the rule of 1/3rds, cutting any more than 1/3 the grass height is slashing, not mowing and you are looking at different types of equipment.
For instance if you have car access you might do better with a tow behind hanging off your pick up which would be a lot safer considering the slopes or a small farm tractor with a flail mower

I think someone posted this video before, but it's a good video. Zero Turn vs Lawn Tractor it pretty much says it all.

 

[bertsmobile1]

OK,
I really don't want to start a tractor vs Zero turn debate, however that video sucks.
It is not even apples vs oranges, more like pears v pineapples.
The black tractor with names removed was a local McCulloch sold by hardware chain stores with about the same integrity as Walmart and it is a Walmart cut down to barely functional cheapest possible mower to sell. They retail about $ 1200. It's the bare bottom worst possible domestic mower on the local market. Not really typical of a tractor.
They are comparing that to an entry level commercial mower sold for more than 5 times the price.
My 1966 Rover 8-30 with 4 speed Peerless box and 3" wide tyres outperforms that particular McCulloch.
Next they run the tractor over the complex slope junction where the Hustler would also have problems.
Next this is all being shot on a purpose made "test lawn" designed specifically to entice people buy the heavier machine.
This "test lawn" is nice & smooth not rough like pan sides the OP is asking about.
The test lawn is all very broadleaf dense foliage and wetted to make things harder for the tractor.
The tractor has close tread turf saver tyres where as the ZT is fitted with very open treaded agressive tyres to get a much better grip.
The tractor is an old design from about 1995 with very little changes where as the ZT is a brand new design.

AS I said I am not intending to start a Zt vs tractor debate.
Both have shortcommings & both have strength but that video is nothing like real.
Over the years ZT technology has gone foreward leaps & where as little evolution has happened with tractors.

However the OP has $ 1500 in his pockets so he would be looking at a much much much older 1st or 2nd generation ZT.
My "proving ground" for my repairs is the neighbours farm which is now pasture but used to be horticulture as such has very uneven ground and lots of drainage ditches and all compound slopes.
The older ZT's flip in this enviroment at the drop of a hat or bog on the heavy fabricated decks. Most of the pre 2010's are geared way too fast & very twitchy to control. Last year I geared down several old ZT's for domestic customers who could not control them. Oddly enough the commercial customers are always asking can I make them go faster without reducing the quality of the cut.
The OP did say this was a drainage pond so one would also expect the ground to be occasionally very soft and it looked quite rough but puotos can be quite deceiving.

I would quite happily mow the OP's grass with the depicted Hustler, or any one of a dozen or more late model ZT's that I have worked on but none of them would be less than $ 5000 and that is 4 times the amount the OP had to spend.

How many 2nd hand ZT's for less than $ 1500 can you name that you would trust to do the job safely?

 

[Ric]

OK,
I really don't want to start a tractor vs Zero turn debate, however that video sucks.
It is not even apples vs oranges, more like pears v pineapples.
The black tractor with names removed was a local McCulloch sold by hardware chain stores with about the same integrity as Walmart and it is a Walmart cut down to barely functional cheapest possible mower to sell. They retail about $ 1200. It's the bare bottom worst possible domestic mower on the local market. Not really typical of a tractor.
They are comparing that to an entry level commercial mower sold for more than 5 times the price.
My 1966 Rover 8-30 with 4 speed Peerless box and 3" wide tires outperforms that particular McCulloch.
Next they run the tractor over the complex slope junction where the Hustler would also have problems.
Next this is all being shot on a purpose made "test lawn" designed specifically to entice people buy the heavier machine.
This "test lawn" is nice & smooth not rough like pan sides the OP is asking about.
The test lawn is all very broad-leaf dense foliage and wetted to make things harder for the tractor.
The tractor has close tread turf saver tires where as the ZT is fitted with very open tread aggressive tires to get a much better grip.
The tractor is an old design from about 1995 with very little changes where as the ZT is a brand new design.

AS I said I am not intending to start a Zt vs tractor debate.
Both have shortcomings & both have strength but that video is nothing like real.
Over the years ZT technology has gone forward leaps & where as little evolution has happened with tractors.

However the OP has $ 1500 in his pockets so he would be looking at a much much much older 1st or 2nd generation ZT.
My "proving ground" for my repairs is the neighbors farm which is now pasture but used to be horticulture as such has very uneven ground and lots of drainage ditches and all compound slopes.
The older ZT's flip in this environment at the drop of a hat or bog on the heavy fabricated decks. Most of the pre 2010's are geared way too fast & very twitchy to control. Last year I geared down several old ZT's for domestic customers who could not control them. Oddly enough the commercial customers are always asking can I make them go faster without reducing the quality of the cut.
The OP did say this was a drainage pond so one would also expect the ground to be occasionally very soft and it looked quite rough but photos can be quite deceiving.

I would quite happily mow the OP's grass with the depicted Hustler, or any one of a dozen or more late model ZT's that I have worked on but none of them would be less than $ 5000 and that is 4 times the amount the OP had to spend.

How many 2nd hand ZT's for less than $ 1500 can you name that you would trust to do the job safely?

I think the video speaks for itself. You can make all the excuses you want to make but the fact remains there mowing the same hill or slope at the same time under the same conditions and the ZTR out performed the tractor in every way. In comparison of the the two mowers your about as wrong as you can get.

I agree the tractor may be the bottom worst possible domestic mower on the market but most of tractors like JD, Cub Cadet and others sold at HD or Lowes in that price range will be the same. You can in fact buy the Raptor at HD or Lowes also. But saying there comparing it to an entry level commercial mower sold for more than 5 times the price is laughable.

The ZTR in the video is nowhere close to being an entry level commercial mower, in fact it's the very bottom of the line ztr from Hustler. You can't get any more residential than the Hustler Raptor. They come with the Kawasaki FR engine and the EZT level drives from Hydro-Gear and the dealer I use has them on the floor for $2695 and if you deal you could get the thing a whole lot cheaper, I'd say I could go out the door for $2300 maybe less easy.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Firstly I am not "Making Excuses" just stating the blindly obvious if you care to look at the video objectively.
Over here they sell Raptors as entry level commercials usually with a Rop.
Things may be different in the US and mower prices are a lot lower over there than they are here.
You will note if you listen to the soundtrack, they are flogging the Raptor for $ 7500 not the $ 2300 you can get it for there.
The mower they compare it to sells for $ 1199 not in the same country let alone the same ball park price wise.
The McCulloch comes with 15 Hp single cylinder B & S intek the Raptor with a 15 Hp V Twin Kwaka, A reasonable comparison , Not quite. Which engine would you prefer ?
If it was to be an honest comparison of the two types of mowers, then the tractor should have been either of equivalent price or equivalent size of the ZTR, neither of which it is.
Try pulling over a YTH series Husky with one hand and see how far you get.
If you can look at it objectively you will note all of the little tricks used. Apart from those previously mentioned.
And in particular, they are side by side when the tractor hangs so contry to what you just said, they are never covering anything like the same surfaces and further more the ZT never goes over the same ground that hangs the tractor. if it was to have any credability the ZTR & Tractor should have swapped places for the second run but they don't, for very good reason.
Even that tractor could have mounted tha same path as the ZT did in the first run.
Note also that the area that hangs the tractor is already scalped and there are several sets of previous tyre tracks approaching the hill where the film crew did multiple takes till they found the exact spot where the tractor would hang.
Now have a real good look at the tip over scene.
Note the tyres on the tractor when it hits the ground, no give , no squash, they look to be inflated to at least 30 psi, again for the purpose of making the tractor look far worse than it is.
Then look at the tyres on the ZT.
Not only are they far more aggressive tyres but they are quite concave on the top tread implying that if anything they are slightly under inflated to help give it better traction.
Also note that the tyres on the tractor are very baloon shaped. They are nothing like the tyres fitted to it when new which are almost square.

I am not disputing the general points they are trying to make it is just in that video it is in no way telling it as it is but rather exagrated to the point of being a lie.