2002 Kohler 25hp Command Vertical Shaft Issues

ILENGINE said:
The SAM and the modules should have a part number on them. That may assist is looking up parts and/or bulletins relative to your engine.
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I did some deeper cleaning and did find Kohler numbers etched in the SAM 24 584 09 REVD 01065 . Piecing the numbers from the coils together they are 24-584-15 00235.
 
MParr said:
The symptoms you described sound like a fuel issue. Trash in the fuel tank is getting sloshed around and finally clogging the pickup tube. Waiting a while and the trash settles. Start mowing again and the symptoms repeat.
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It will do the same thing off of either tank, both of which have no notable debris. I have a new filter with nothing showing up in it. I have not replaced the fuel lines which are original and have some pretty long runs but appear to get very good fuel flow. Honestly have not taken down the carb and cleaned it, not sure if could be some fiber/lint in the mesh somewhere. With all the bad press on the SAMS and coils from the era and the location near/above the exhaust thought heating up and shorting/faulting makes the most sense, just not accustomed to such a investment to rule out ignition. I will focus on the fuel as well.
 
HollyGlen said:
It will do the same thing off of either tank, both of which have no notable debris. I have a new filter with nothing showing up in it. I have not replaced the fuel lines which are original and have some pretty long runs but appear to get very good fuel flow. Honestly have not taken down the carb and cleaned it, not sure if could be some fiber/lint in the mesh somewhere. With all the bad press on the SAMS and coils from the era and the location near/above the exhaust thought heating up and shorting/faulting makes the most sense, just not accustomed to such a investment to rule out ignition. I will focus on the fuel as well.
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New fuel lines are fairly cheap.
 
HollyGlen said:
It will do the same thing off of either tank, both of which have no notable debris. I have a new filter with nothing showing up in it. I have not replaced the fuel lines which are original and have some pretty long runs but appear to get very good fuel flow. Honestly have not taken down the carb and cleaned it, not sure if could be some fiber/lint in the mesh somewhere. With all the bad press on the SAMS and coils from the era and the location near/above the exhaust thought heating up and shorting/faulting makes the most sense, just not accustomed to such a investment to rule out ignition. I will focus on the fuel as well.
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Before buying another SAM unit, clean the carburetor, and replace the fuel lines if needed. Also, as stated before, there may be trash in the tanks and/or tank grommet connectors. Try blowing through the fuel hose with air compressor blow gun back into tank, with fuel cap off.
 
The question becomes when the engine shuts down, are you loosing spark, or is something else happening. Will need a spark tester to confirm lose of spark or not. If you are loosing spark then the SAM is suspect.

And finding a good ASAM maybe difficult due to being discontinued in 2016. And the later used DSAM is not compatible with the current setup.
 
ILENGINE said:
The question becomes when the engine shuts down, are you loosing spark, or is something else happening. Will need a spark tester to confirm lose of spark or not. If you are loosing spark then the SAM is suspect.

And finding a good ASAM maybe difficult due to being discontinued in 2016. And the later used DSAM is not compatible with the current setup.
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Ok thanks. To date have not been able to replicate unless under load of mowing with the electic clutch engauged and by the time I had stopped and checked both plug it had spark on both as the couple of minutes wait period to restart had passed. I will try again after I clean the carb and fuel system. Thanks.
 
HollyGlen said:
Thanks for you time in advance.
A family member has a older Woods Commerical Zero Turn from 2002, one original owner. I mention the mower because the model and serial number is missing from the engine cover so I had to use the serial number on the Woods Mow n Machine M2560 to back in to the limited engine info I have.
Symptoms: Will run fairly well for about 30 minutes of cutting, power will drop quickly and mower will cut off. After 2 minutes it will crank and run about 15 to 20 minutes and after that about 15 to 10 minutes.
What I have Done: Replaced, oil, plugs, verified fuel flow, removed the carburetor fuel shut off plunger with no improvement. I also tried a SAM delete replacement that did not go well and resulted in poor timing and backfiring which I would think is a result of the delete kit not being compatible with the timing of the original flywheel. Fuel tank vents appear to be working well.
What I know about the current (all original to mower) SAM/coil/flywheel : Sam is a separate module about the size of a 1/2" stack of business cards mounted vertically with brown and yellow wires running to the coils, and has a red power feed from the mower splitting to the carb and a green ground wire. Kohler original 25-790-12 delete kit fit up well in accordance with instruction but engine was slightly weak and backfired after about 5 minutes as mentioned.
I have found a decent amount of contradicting info that all does appear to agree that it is unfortunate I do not have an exact model/serial number for the engine and that the Kohler evolution of the ignition/flywheel combinations has made this more complicated than you would think it should be.
I have found some hits on trying the 24-584-201(or 45) S coils and make my own delete wiring harness but I saw some hits on this dropping power and having subtle miss and I also see that some have had luck with die grinding out the coil slots to allow for lateral adjustment but do to the fact that it is not my mower I am hesitant to take this approach,
Questions: 1) Any insight would be greatly appreciate. 2) Is 24-755-308-S kit with flywheel my be repair option and is there anything I need to verify prior to ordering? 3)Are there any less expensive reliable options? 4) Am i correct that this old a ?SAM and coil setup is likely the culprit and needs to be swapped out?
Thanks.
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Have you verified no trash in the tank blocking fuel supply or tank vent not venting....
 
IMO you are definitely over thinking this issue. I agree with others that you just have a fuel delivery issue. I have experienced this same issue with both of my zero turns (Woods M2250 & Gravely 260Z). Both are Kohler powered, M2250 w/Carb & 260Z w/fuel injection. Same 30-35 minute run time and then die. Wait 5 minutes they would start back up but would die again after 10-15 minutes or so.

Fixed them both by blowing air back through supply lines to the fuel tanks and installing new fuel filters. I have done this twice on each machine over the past 20 years I owned and used them. Hope this helps.
 
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