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10.5 hp intek wont run

#1

J

jimigunne

Am out of ideas. I have replaced the carb with one from Amazon. Spark tester shows spark but i replaced magneto and plug anyway. Still wont start. Have tried disconnecting the filter intake pipe and spraying starter fluid directly into carb through choke plate in various pisitions from closed to open. Does not even make so much as a single "pop". Its definitely still got normal compression judging by the pull force needed. I changed carb again just in case i got a bad one. Still no start. Even if the carb was not feeding any fuel mixture into combustion chamber, how is it possible that starter fluid into it still results in no fire at all?


#2

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

check the flywheel key


#3

B

bertsmobile1

Spray a TINY amount of starter fluid down the plug hole and try again.
If the timing is right & the compression is good you should at least get a fart.

If no joy as per Scrubbies suggestion check he timing key in the flywheel.

If that is OK or you got a fart in the first test then pull the rocker cover off and check the valves.
They should move the same distance & be equal positions in the head .


#4

J

jimigunne

bertsmobile1 said:
Spray a TINY amount of starter fluid down the plug hole and try again.
If the timing is right & the compression is good you should at least get a fart.

If no joy as per Scrubbies suggestion check he timing key in the flywheel.

If that is OK or you got a fart in the first test then pull the rocker cover off and check the valves.
They should move the same distance & be equal positions in the head .
[/QUOT
Click to expand...


#5

J

jimigunne

I figured it would dissipate by the time i got sparkplug reinstalled? Is too much starter fluid a bad thing? I have the whole carb pulled out a little from the engine intake. So starter fluid injected there on engine side of carb definitely eliminates possibility of blockage at carb. I didnt get a burp that way either.


#6

Fish

Fish

As said before. Take off the valve cover and take a peek, likely a pushrod dropped out or the like.


#7

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

If those idea's don't work. Stick a long screw driver into the spark plug hole, turn the engine over by hand and see if the piston is moving up and down. Just be careful not to bind the screw driver if/when the piston starts coming up.


#8

B

bertsmobile1

jimigunne said:
I figured it would dissipate by the time i got sparkplug reinstalled? Is too much starter fluid a bad thing? I have the whole carb pulled out a little from the engine intake. So starter fluid injected there on engine side of carb definitely eliminates possibility of blockage at carb. I didnt get a burp that way either.
Click to expand...
Only gasses burn
So unless all of it blows back out the spark plug hole there will be starter fluid in the cylinder and because what you are spraying in is more concentrated than what would be aspirated by the carburettor then it will work.
Too much spray is just the same as too much petrol .


#9

J

jimigunne

Yea that makes sense. So i did put some starter fluid direct into spark hole, put plug in and pulled it. There was a kickback so violent that the handle was jerked out of my hand....and i let out a yell from the ensuing pain that could be heard a block away. What does this mean?


#10

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

did you check the flywheel key? that will throw off igniton timing.


#11

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

jimigunne said:
Yea that makes sense. So i did put some starter fluid direct into spark hole, put plug in and pulled it. There was a kickback so violent that the handle was jerked out of my hand....and i let out a yell from the ensuing pain that could be heard a block away. What does this mean?
Click to expand...

If it was just a kickback, that means you just got to the compression stroke and it was too much for you to handle. Did it fire at all?

One thing that means is that the piston is still connected to the crank.


#12

B

bertsmobile1

As Scrubby said,
Yu have just found out that the timing key is busted .
The flywheel has rotated forward a bit so the coil sparked too early causing the engine to spin backwards .
Ask any motorcyclist over 50 or ones that ride bikes over 50 years old about kick backs .


#13

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

Don't use more than a 1/2 second squirt of starter fluid. Carb cleaner is better for that sort of thing.


#14

J

jimigunne

Ok.....i dont have a clue about flywheel and timing key, but guess i'll figure it out once i take starter and shroud off.


#15

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10



#16

R

Rivets

This manual might help. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6NaqjIxWV1ybEN0LWo3azl6OUU


#17

J

jimigunne

Yea, thanks. Will get a B&S flywheel puller and then can fix it


#18

J

jimigunne

The crankshaft key is good! Like new still. Flywheel position is exactly right.
So the other possibility is a valve problem?


#19

J

jimigunne

Got crankshaft nut off no problem. The key appears like new, undamaged. See attached pics. What are other possible causes of kickback? Guess i should check valves next?

Attachments







#20

R

Rivets

Stupid question, is it possible that the coil is mounted upside down? Most Briggs engines have the kill wire termial on the bottom. You did state you replaced the coil. May be wrong, it happened once before I think.


#21

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Yep, i'd check the valve lash next, give us the engine model number and we can get the proper specification for you. Or something else is throwing off ignition timing


#22

J

jimigunne

Rivets said:
Stupid question, is it possible that the coil is mounted upside down? Most Briggs engines have the kill wire termial on the bottom. You did state you replaced the coil. May be wrong, it happened once before I think.
Click to expand...
Maybe it is upside down. Will flip it around and see what happens.


#23

J

jimigunne

Yea I think it was installed upside down. I flipped it over and no longer get kickback when pulled. Put some starting spray in spark hole again. And when pulled it made one single pop which went out the intake with puff of smoke. So thats a good sign. But after that it did not fire at all. And again cant get any pops when a bit is sprayed in carb intake.


#24

R

Rivets

Ok, second stupid question. How fresh is you gas and have you checked for water in the gas? Crack open the bolt on the bottom of the carb and drain about 5 oz into a clean glass jar. Cover and shake vigorously. Any bubbles or foam indicates water in the gas.


#25

J

jimigunne

Drained out all old gas from tank and lines, its a new carb no.2 from amazon, theres no clog in the line. Filled tank with very fresh gas which is high dollar ethanol free.


#26

J

jimigunne

About the magneto coil: i looked at manual but didnt find where its stated how to adjust the position for any model. So maybe spark is not optimal. Is there a specific gap required? In fact i dont know what engine models pertain to what i got since it speaks of 1500 , 2000 series or some such but my engine is....
B&S 21R706-0112 E1. 10.5 hp intek


#27

J

jimigunne

Another engine issue......the rabbit/turtle speed control hasnt worked for the last couple of years. It was just starting and running at the usual proper high speed for cutting, so we didnt worry about not having an idle setting. See the attached pic. The linkage doesnt make sense as it is! The little lever that actuates the outside butterfly plate can only push the plate closed. But then it cant open it again as the paper-clip shaped link arm doesnt directly connect to the actuator arm as you can see. Is there maybe supposed to be a spring to force the plate back open as the actuator arm travels forward? This is normal for there to be no direct connection?

Attachments







#28

R

Rivets

Coil air gap should be .010”. Most DYI use a business card to set, which does work. Push the throttle control all the way to choke the engine, the front butterfly should be closed. Pull back the control to high speed and that butterfly should open. Let me know what happens.


#29

J

jimigunne

Rivets said:
Coil air gap should be .010”. Most DYI use a business card to set, which does work. Push the throttle control all the way to choke the engine, the front butterfly should be closed. Pull back the control to high speed and that butterfly should open. Let me know what happens.
Click to expand...
Yea, i see that the cotrol arm on front butterfly has an unused hole. If a spring was installed there, it would open after being choked/ closed. As it is it doesnt reopen. I could find some spring easy enough but theres no fixed anchor point for the spring.


#30

J

jimigunne

Ok i adjusted gap on magneto coil to credit card thickness. Still we could not get it to fire even once. Put a little starter fluid into intake side of carb, but still nothing. But i did get one strong pop when i put the fluid into the sparkplug hole.
What is the positioning of the front butterfly plate when fully choked supposed to be? Im assuming we need full choke for it to start since engine is cold. With the adjustment it has now, its still open about 1/8 inch. Should we adjust cable so it moves fully closed?


#31

R

Rivets

Fully closed.


#32

J

jimigunne

I said i had drained the gas tank and refilled with fresh ethanol free gas. Yes, but i drained a little gas from the fuel tank and discovered its got a lot of water! Should i take the bowl off carb and soak in carb cleaner? What about the fuel pump? It looks like it does not come apart.


#33

J

jimigunne

I took bowl off carb, made sure all water removed from icarb. Drained tank and fuel lines. Put fresh contaminated gas in. It still does not even let out a pop at all when cranked. Made sure gas was freely pouring out the fuel line when pulled off of carb.No matter how the intake butterfly plate is positioned, no joy. But a tiny shot of starter fluid direct into cylinder after removing spark plug will result in a "pop". There is plenty of compression when pulled, and i have the magneto positioned right side up, so the kickback issue that installing it upside down was causing is gone. Has to be the air/fuel charge is not being sucked into the cylinder i guess? This is the second new carb from Amazon i have installed. Plug and magneto are brand new. Any ideas?


#34

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Maybe the carbs from Amazon are the problem..
It definitely sounds like a fuel delivery issue.


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