Buying new mower help me decide

[Jetblast]

I am not saying the ZT2800's on my Exmark whine, they scream AND the darn thing doesn't even budge. Today I discovered that when it does this if I pull back into reverse, then push forward the mower will move with no unusual noise.

Is the ZT3100 significantly different?

Is this happening at standard mowing engine RPM (full throttle?) Is your hydro reservoir filled with oil to the line near the bottom of the tank? If "yes" to both, screaming hydros would be a sign that the train has seriously gone off the rails somewhere. Nothing normal about that. What did your dealer say about it?

The ZT-3100 has stronger and longer lasting steel cut gears; charge pumps for quicker response, more weight capacity, faster speed; and relief valves to protect the system if overloaded or overheated. Years ago the ZT-3100 was sold by Hydrogear to manufacturers as a heavy-duty version of the ZT-2800, but eventually it got its own name.

 

[robert]

jet, the problem is intermittent but I did manage to get the noise on tape.... dealer said that they couldn't do anything unless they heard the sound.

I think I would tell everyone thinking about a new mower to buy only one that had the ZT 3100 as a minimum, wonder if the charge pumps makes the units quieter?-of course I would also advise everyone not to buy Briggs......:thumbdown:

 

[Jetblast]

jet, the problem is intermittent but I did manage to get the noise on tape.... dealer said that they couldn't do anything unless they heard the sound.

I think I would tell everyone thinking about a new mower to buy only one that had the ZT 3100 as a minimum, wonder if the charge pumps makes the units quieter?-of course I would also advise everyone not to buy Briggs......:thumbdown:

The charge pump adds head pressure to the main pump inlet so that should help, but I did test out a mower with ZT-2800s before I bought mine and there was no excessive hydro screaming. The only big difference I noticed was that the ZT-2800s didn't require as light a touch on the controls to prevent getting my neck snapped backward.

I hope you'll let us know how it works out.

 

[Black Bart]

jet, the problem is intermittent but I did manage to get the noise on tape.... dealer said that they couldn't do anything unless they heard the sound.

I think I would tell everyone thinking about a new mower to buy only one that had the ZT 3100 as a minimum, wonder if the charge pumps makes the units quieter?-of course I would also advise everyone not to buy Briggs......:thumbdown:

Well IMO you should not con-dim all ZT 2800 units just because you have a defective one.

I just bought a new JD ZTR with the 2800 unit in it and not only does it not whine I can not hear
ANY NOISE from it.

My neighbor has a Craftsman tractor with I think a 48" deck on it and that deck is the loudest thing I ever heard.

When he mows everyone in the neighborhood knows it, God that thing is loud.

 

[robert]

Black Bart, if the zt2800 does have powdered metal gears as reported this would be a very good reason to opt for the 3100.
Then again even pm gears probably would outlast 3 homeowners.....

 

[Black Bart]

Black Bart, if the zt2800 does have powdered metal gears as reported this would be a very good reason to opt for the 3100.
Then again even pm gears probably would outlast 3 homeowners.....

Do you know for a fact that it has PM gears or is this more internet talk.

You know what they say about internet advice it is worth what you paid for it.

Some people could break an anvil but I'm not hard on equipment so Im not concerned about it.
If this unit is so bad why does all the major manufactures use it.

My Grasshopper has twin pumps and motors and while it has been durable it howl's bad but my JD with the 2800 is silent and also much more responsive.

The ZTR is much better than my Grasshopper for my lawn the GH is 12 feet long and with a 72 inch deck it really takes a lot of room to turn the thing around.

While I only have a 54 inch deck I can mow my lawn faster and have far less trimming to do with the ZTR than with the GH.

IMO the ZTR is light years ahead of the old tractors we used in years gone by, I love mine. :thumbsup:

 

[robert]

When the comment about the powdered metal gears was read I did go to the HydroGear website and looked up the literatuare on both the 2800 and 3100, the 3100 was listed as having steel cut gears and the 2800 was not, so I sent out an email to the Company and asked-I'll post what I learn as soon as I learn it.

I have not owned a zt with pumps/motors so I will cede to your experience, I had understood that the intergral units were 'noisy' compared to the individual components but this is not what you observed with your Grasshopper and I find this interesting. Of course the lack of hoses and fittings is a big plus in my mind.

As I mentioned previously had JD offered a deck smaller than 48" I would have one in my shed as I type, I liked what I saw when I looked at them; and the price was certainly not any more than what I paid for the Exmark, $3800 or so. As you can perhaps tell I am not a Briggs person and I was very concerned when I saw that Deere had left Kawasaki for BS BUT I also was impressed when I saw the way the Briggs was set up for Deere and even more put at ease when I realized that the 'Professional' series engine is , at least in the literature, put in a different model class the the 'ELS' series which I have (and dislike) in the Exmark.

My dislike for BS is based on experience rather than opinion, the last two engines I have had by Briggs did not give satisfactory performance or service life-the Vanguard in the Simplicity did not give even 350 hours (twice yearly synthetic oil changes with twice yearly air filter changes) and an Intek on our DR vacuum is smoking badly at not even 70 hours-same maintainence schedule.

Contrast this to the four GX Honda's (one of which is about 30 years old and still start on the first pull after winter storage) and a couple of Robin's which have been 1000% reliable and the difference between Briggs and others is apparent.

BUT again, the 'Professional' Briggs -seems- to be different and even I would have taken another (but final) chance... and, there are many thousands of Briggs owners who claim to have had no issues.

I think you made a good choice and I will be interested in reading your comments on performance in the future-do you know if Deere offers their satisfaction warranty for the ZT you bought?

 

[Carl in CT]

My dislike for BS is based on experience rather than opinion, the last two engines I have had by Briggs did not give satisfactory performance or service life-the Vanguard in the Simplicity did not give even 350 hours (twice yearly synthetic oil changes with twice yearly air filter changes) and an Intek on our DR vacuum is smoking badly at not even 70 hours-same maintainence schedule.

Contrast this to the four GX Honda's (one of which is about 30 years old and still start on the first pull after winter storage) and a couple of Robin's which have been 1000% reliable and the difference between Briggs and others is apparent.

BUT again, the 'Professional' Briggs -seems- to be different and even I would have taken another (but final) chance... and, there are many thousands of Briggs owners who claim to have had no issues.

The more I read and see the more it's apparent that no engine manufacturer is without duds, not even Honda or Kawasaki. I have bad-mouthed Kohler because I have been burned by two different Kohler Command engines but other people swear by them. I have seen Kawasakis be abused and never quit but other Kawasakis have had issues with plastic internal gears breaking. I have seen Hondas blow up and Briggs go forever. I guess you do the research, make the most educated choice you can and pray yours holds together, with proper maintenance of course.

I went with a Simplicity with Briggs Vanguard over a JD with Kawasdaki. I really like the Simplicty based on price, the rest of tractor itself being more heavily built and the Vanguard being a 100% Japanese motor (made by Diahatsu) like the Kawasaki, unlike all other Briggs made in USA or China. I also have read that Kawasaki has gone to several levels of motor too so it's no longer automatic that Kawasaki = commercial grade and the JD dealer would not or could not answer my questions regarding that.

I'm curious what went wrong with your Simplicity's Vanguard as it sounds like you maintained it very well.

 

[Black Bart]

The more I read and see the more it's apparent that no engine manufacturer is without duds, not even Honda or Kawasaki. I have bad-mouthed Kohler because I have been burned by two different Kohler Command engines but other people swear by them. I have seen Kawasakis be abused and never quit but other Kawasakis have had issues with plastic internal gears breaking. I have seen Hondas blow up and Briggs go forever. I guess you do the research, make the most educated choice you can and pray yours holds together, with proper maintenance of course.

I went with a Simplicity with Briggs Vanguard over a JD with Kawasdaki. I really like the Simplicty based on price, the rest of tractor itself being more heavily built and the Vanguard being a 100% Japanese motor (made by Diahatsu) like the Kawasaki, unlike all other Briggs made in USA or China. I also have read that Kawasaki has gone to several levels of motor too so it's no longer automatic that Kawasaki = commercial grade and the JD dealer would not or could not answer my questions regarding that.

I'm curious what went wrong with your Simplicity's Vanguard as it sounds like you maintained it very well.

Carl I agree with you I read about the problems but I have not experienced them, my 1986 JD 180 has a 17hp single cylinder Kawasaki and it has not been touched.

Nothing but oil changes.

Seems like they all have shortcomings.
The Simplicity that I looked at had the grease sirks under the deck and to clean the geardrive required removing covers that are bolted down on all of them but the JD.
The JD you raise the seat and the plate that it is bolted to hinges and exposes the whole area for cleaning and service.
The plate where you put your feet swings up and you can clean the deck and the sirks are on the top fast and easy to grease the spindle's.

I had some wood chips that was in the grass and when I mowed over it with my Grasshopper it cut the grass and left the wood chips but when I mowed with the new JD it sucked up those wood chips.

Proves it has waaaaay more lift than the GH has
Only negative so far is the same problem that all of them have, I sit on JD Bad Boy Toro X-Mark Simplicity all of them lean you back if you lean back in the seat.
I don't like to lay down while mowing the seat needs the back more vertical.

 

[Jetblast]

Only negative so far is the same problem that all of them have, I sit on JD Bad Boy Toro X-Mark Simplicity all of them lean you back if you lean back in the seat.
I don't like to lay down while mowing the seat needs the back more vertical.

That does seem to be the trend, doesn't it. I fixed that on mine by adding 3/4" spacers (just some extra large nuts) between the two rear seat mounting holes and the seat rails they mount on. I had enough extra thread on the bolts to where I didn't need to buy longer ones. Cheap and easy.