You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Export thread
XT1 CAN mow in reverse without using the Key Safety Switch
#1
vv0350
vv0350
I mow a 2 1/2 acre lot in the country. and just bought a XT1, Lt42. I have to back up maybe 20 times per mowing...
I realized that once the safety switch was activated, you could go ahead an mow forward and reverse without any further switch use...BUT if you hit a bump, and we have many, or got off the mower, it would disconnect nd you had to set it again......
SOOOOO, I looked around and followed a set of wires from the back of the "interlock switch", a plunger switch at the back of the reverse rod located under the seat ...I realized there was a easy disconnect plug up under ant at the back of the battery area...secured very near the back of the mower. I pulled the battery out and reached down....squeezed the center of the clear plastic plug, pulled a little on both ends, and it disconnected....tucked the two halved around the other wiring in the area and used a little black tape to double secure everything...The plastic cooling blades are just a few inches away and you would NOT want to have the plug halves get pulled into those blades....Anyway, I put the battery back in and started it up..NOW, when you start the mower, you can push the forward pedal and go forward, then push the reverse pedal and go backward without moving the key, or pushing any button, or waiting for a little light to go on...
NOTE: I have no little kids anywhere near me when mowing...If I did, I probably would not do this modification...
I realized that once the safety switch was activated, you could go ahead an mow forward and reverse without any further switch use...BUT if you hit a bump, and we have many, or got off the mower, it would disconnect nd you had to set it again......
SOOOOO, I looked around and followed a set of wires from the back of the "interlock switch", a plunger switch at the back of the reverse rod located under the seat ...I realized there was a easy disconnect plug up under ant at the back of the battery area...secured very near the back of the mower. I pulled the battery out and reached down....squeezed the center of the clear plastic plug, pulled a little on both ends, and it disconnected....tucked the two halved around the other wiring in the area and used a little black tape to double secure everything...The plastic cooling blades are just a few inches away and you would NOT want to have the plug halves get pulled into those blades....Anyway, I put the battery back in and started it up..NOW, when you start the mower, you can push the forward pedal and go forward, then push the reverse pedal and go backward without moving the key, or pushing any button, or waiting for a little light to go on...
NOTE: I have no little kids anywhere near me when mowing...If I did, I probably would not do this modification...
#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
While the NMIR safety feature is some what of a joke & I for one feel it is totally unnecessary piece of complication that does absolutely nothing to make any one safer.
It is a safety item mandated by law in some states, so it is not prudent to encourage people to defeat it.
I appreciate that you sound like a reasonable person with sufficient understanding of a mowers electronics to do what you have done but broadcasting it encourages others who may not be mechanically compitent as yourself to follow suit.
The danger there is the seat switch , which is the only safety device on a mower which does protect the operator and those near by, is also close to the NMIR switch so you risk causing people to accidentially defeating that.
Most mowers are fitting a much more complicated NMIR switch which can not be defeated because if it is disconnected the mower will not start.
So broadcasting such things just causes NMIR systems to get more complicated.
It is a safety item mandated by law in some states, so it is not prudent to encourage people to defeat it.
I appreciate that you sound like a reasonable person with sufficient understanding of a mowers electronics to do what you have done but broadcasting it encourages others who may not be mechanically compitent as yourself to follow suit.
The danger there is the seat switch , which is the only safety device on a mower which does protect the operator and those near by, is also close to the NMIR switch so you risk causing people to accidentially defeating that.
Most mowers are fitting a much more complicated NMIR switch which can not be defeated because if it is disconnected the mower will not start.
So broadcasting such things just causes NMIR systems to get more complicated.
#3
Scrubcadet10
And then again, what kind of person mows backwards without looking behind them.... :confused2:
Scrubcadet10
While the NMIR safety feature is some what of a joke & I for one feel it is totally unnecessary piece of complication that does absolutely nothing to make any one safer.
It is a safety item mandated by law in some states, so it is not prudent to encourage people to defeat it.
I appreciate that you sound like a reasonable person with sufficient understanding of a mowers electronics to do what you have done but broadcasting it encourages others who may not be mechanically compitent as yourself to follow suit.
The danger there is the seat switch , which is the only safety device on a mower which does protect the operator and those near by, is also close to the NMIR switch so you risk causing people to accidentially defeating that.
Most mowers are fitting a much more complicated NMIR switch which can not be defeated because if it is disconnected the mower will not start.
So broadcasting such things just causes NMIR systems to get more complicated.
And then again, what kind of person mows backwards without looking behind them.... :confused2:
#4
D
Darryl G
I do it about 1,000 times a day...short distances. Looking behind me would be pointless since I can't see anything over my rear bagger anyway.
Edit - photo approximates what I see turning my head as far as I can to try to look behind me... basically nothing.
D
Darryl G
And then again, what kind of person mows backwards without looking behind them.... :confused2:
I do it about 1,000 times a day...short distances. Looking behind me would be pointless since I can't see anything over my rear bagger anyway.
Edit - photo approximates what I see turning my head as far as I can to try to look behind me... basically nothing.
Attachments
#5
J
John Fitzgerald
J
John Fitzgerald
Why are NMIR switches on lawn tractors and not on homeowner grade ZTR mowers? It would shut the blades off every time you turned a ZTR unless the little light was on.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
Because someone who would be mentally challenged managing a bush dunny reversed over something and injured himself or what he ran over.
Then some moron legal whizz managed to convince a third generation apartment dwelling judge who believes in creationism that it was the mower makers fault and not the thing sitting in the drivers seat thus awarding the thing vast amounts of money.
The judgement being made then forces more creationist occcupying space in the OH&S department that things sitting in drivers seats needed protection from this situation that would be totally beyond the ability of a normal person to avoid so made it a manditory safety device.
Other vultures working for the mower makers would have read the judgement in their vultures daily and advised the board of the mower companies that they needed to protect themselves from other vultures.
Because this happened to some one riding on a tractor style mower, it became compulsory for tractor style mowers and not ZTR's or RER's but it will eventually because there is an exisiting ruling there for vultures to use.
B
bertsmobile1
Why are NMIR switches on lawn tractors and not on homeowner grade ZTR mowers? It would shut the blades off every time you turned a ZTR unless the little light was on.
Because someone who would be mentally challenged managing a bush dunny reversed over something and injured himself or what he ran over.
Then some moron legal whizz managed to convince a third generation apartment dwelling judge who believes in creationism that it was the mower makers fault and not the thing sitting in the drivers seat thus awarding the thing vast amounts of money.
The judgement being made then forces more creationist occcupying space in the OH&S department that things sitting in drivers seats needed protection from this situation that would be totally beyond the ability of a normal person to avoid so made it a manditory safety device.
Other vultures working for the mower makers would have read the judgement in their vultures daily and advised the board of the mower companies that they needed to protect themselves from other vultures.
Because this happened to some one riding on a tractor style mower, it became compulsory for tractor style mowers and not ZTR's or RER's but it will eventually because there is an exisiting ruling there for vultures to use.
#7
J
John Fitzgerald
It doesn't matter how complicated, it will get defeated, until such time a mower is run entirely by computer software that is difficult to hack. The way NMIR switches are now, using that little plunger switch pushed by the reverse rod, cutting off that little plunger so the mower "thinks" it's not in reverse will defeat any existing system. Of course for the "seal in relay" types like Cub Cadet uses, simply disconnecting the two wire harness from the plunger switch makes it "think" it's never in reverse. In fact, it can be disconnected on both ends and the little one foot harness entirely removed, and no wires are there to tie up. Of course, I am not advocating this. It's only for informational purposes.
J
John Fitzgerald
While the NMIR safety feature is some what of a joke & I for one feel it is totally unnecessary piece of complication that does absolutely nothing to make any one safer.
It is a safety item mandated by law in some states, so it is not prudent to encourage people to defeat it.
I appreciate that you sound like a reasonable person with sufficient understanding of a mowers electronics to do what you have done but broadcasting it encourages others who may not be mechanically compitent as yourself to follow suit.
The danger there is the seat switch , which is the only safety device on a mower which does protect the operator and those near by, is also close to the NMIR switch so you risk causing people to accidentially defeating that.
Most mowers are fitting a much more complicated NMIR switch which can not be defeated because if it is disconnected the mower will not start.
So broadcasting such things just causes NMIR systems to get more complicated.
It doesn't matter how complicated, it will get defeated, until such time a mower is run entirely by computer software that is difficult to hack. The way NMIR switches are now, using that little plunger switch pushed by the reverse rod, cutting off that little plunger so the mower "thinks" it's not in reverse will defeat any existing system. Of course for the "seal in relay" types like Cub Cadet uses, simply disconnecting the two wire harness from the plunger switch makes it "think" it's never in reverse. In fact, it can be disconnected on both ends and the little one foot harness entirely removed, and no wires are there to tie up. Of course, I am not advocating this. It's only for informational purposes.
#8
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Several mowers now come with control modules that can not be bypassed and expect to see fully computer controlled mowers very soon.
When the next tier of EPA regulations come in there will be no more carburettor controlled engines.
So the fuel injected engines will need an electronic engine management system. The modules will be part of the hour meter and they will of course check that safety switches are all there , & functioning before they will allow the mower to start.
A lot of the skid steers already have them fitted and the same control module will work happily on a lawn mower.
In fact the pin outs behind the hour meters on the skid steers are almost the same as those on come of the high end commercials.
The $ 5.00 on /off switches get replaced with $ 30 piezo electric switches that never read 0 so the control module knows if they have been bypassed.
When the next tier of EPA regulations come in there will be no more carburettor controlled engines.
So the fuel injected engines will need an electronic engine management system. The modules will be part of the hour meter and they will of course check that safety switches are all there , & functioning before they will allow the mower to start.
A lot of the skid steers already have them fitted and the same control module will work happily on a lawn mower.
In fact the pin outs behind the hour meters on the skid steers are almost the same as those on come of the high end commercials.
The $ 5.00 on /off switches get replaced with $ 30 piezo electric switches that never read 0 so the control module knows if they have been bypassed.
#9
J
John Fitzgerald
At least some of us are old enough, and there are enough older used mowers out there, that we will never have to deal with what you mentioned.
I have owned mowers since about 1976, and never had one in the shop other than my own. Not going to start that.
J
John Fitzgerald
Several mowers now come with control modules that can not be bypassed and expect to see fully computer controlled mowers very soon.
When the next tier of EPA regulations come in there will be no more carburettor controlled engines.
So the fuel injected engines will need an electronic engine management system. The modules will be part of the hour meter and they will of course check that safety switches are all there , & functioning before they will allow the mower to start.
A lot of the skid steers already have them fitted and the same control module will work happily on a lawn mower.
In fact the pin outs behind the hour meters on the skid steers are almost the same as those on come of the high end commercials.
The $ 5.00 on /off switches get replaced with $ 30 piezo electric switches that never read 0 so the control module knows if they have been bypassed.
At least some of us are old enough, and there are enough older used mowers out there, that we will never have to deal with what you mentioned.
I have owned mowers since about 1976, and never had one in the shop other than my own. Not going to start that.
#10
B
bertsmobile1
Believe you me I am not looking forward to it either, but it is coming.
We had a friends Skid steer here for ages trying to work out why it would start then shut back down.
IT would start in service mode but shut down the instant it was switched to operate mode.
Ended up being the seat switch which has to be set to the operators weight through a sequence of turning the ignition on & off.
Object was to stop children pinching it .
B
bertsmobile1
At least some of us are old enough, and there are enough older used mowers out there, that we will never have to deal with what you mentioned.
I have owned mowers sinc about 1976, and never had one in the shop other than my own. Not going to start that.
Believe you me I am not looking forward to it either, but it is coming.
We had a friends Skid steer here for ages trying to work out why it would start then shut back down.
IT would start in service mode but shut down the instant it was switched to operate mode.
Ended up being the seat switch which has to be set to the operators weight through a sequence of turning the ignition on & off.
Object was to stop children pinching it .
#11
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
I was born in the early 60's and have been cutting or trying to cut grass at a very early age...... In fact my dad bought me a kiddie mower that when you pushed it, it would make a engine sound.....
Back then a 3.5 HP Briggs would cut a 2 acre yard excluding the house footage and run for 10 to 20 years and there was not one safety feature on those mowers....
When you are raised up in that environment then you know what safety is about...... Barr none ~!~!
Plus Tard Mes Amies ~!~!
Back then a 3.5 HP Briggs would cut a 2 acre yard excluding the house footage and run for 10 to 20 years and there was not one safety feature on those mowers....
When you are raised up in that environment then you know what safety is about...... Barr none ~!~!
Plus Tard Mes Amies ~!~!
#12
vv0350
vv0350
Amen.....Im 73, wife 63, and when I use my XT1, I am mowing a 2 1/2 acre property with about 30 trees out in the country.. Nearest neighbor about 1/8 mile away.......My wife and I both mow, she uses a key start, self propelled 21" and me, the XT1...it takes us about 4 hours, another 1/2 hour to weed eating along the permitter fences. In the hot, humid summer weather, I don't need any more issues that slow me down than absolutely necessary...anyway, that's where we are..I wold never hook the key safety switch up again. PS...NO kids around here anywhere...I might rethink this whole thing if there were....don't know..
#13
P
Papa Smurf
P
Papa Smurf
I have a 2021 Cub cadet LS46. Followed your fix and it worked perfectly. Thank you.I mow a 2 1/2 acre lot in the country. and just bought a XT1, Lt42. I have to back up maybe 20 times per mowing...
I realized that once the safety switch was activated, you could go ahead an mow forward and reverse without any further switch use...BUT if you hit a bump, and we have many, or got off the mower, it would disconnect nd you had to set it again......
SOOOOO, I looked around and followed a set of wires from the back of the "interlock switch", a plunger switch at the back of the reverse rod located under the seat ...I realized there was a easy disconnect plug up under ant at the back of the battery area...secured very near the back of the mower. I pulled the battery out and reached down....squeezed the center of the clear plastic plug, pulled a little on both ends, and it disconnected....tucked the two halved around the other wiring in the area and used a little black tape to double secure everything...The plastic cooling blades are just a few inches away and you would NOT want to have the plug halves get pulled into those blades....Anyway, I put the battery back in and started it up..NOW, when you start the mower, you can push the forward pedal and go forward, then push the reverse pedal and go backward without moving the key, or pushing any button, or waiting for a little light to go on...
NOTE: I have no little kids anywhere near me when mowing...If I did, I probably would not do this modification...
#14
S
slomo
S
slomo
These people.And then again, what kind of person mows backwards without looking behind them.... :confused2:
#15
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
And I would go one further,
What type of parent would mow while there were other people , particularly children in the yard ?
I for one use mowers that predate the MIR features and can not see the logic of preventing tractors mowing in reverse and allowing ZTR's to do the said same thing .
However no repair leaves my yard unless all of the safety switches are functioning properly .
I have wired in some delay modules to mower that did not have them and extended plungers on switches to desencatize them
What type of parent would mow while there were other people , particularly children in the yard ?
I for one use mowers that predate the MIR features and can not see the logic of preventing tractors mowing in reverse and allowing ZTR's to do the said same thing .
However no repair leaves my yard unless all of the safety switches are functioning properly .
I have wired in some delay modules to mower that did not have them and extended plungers on switches to desencatize them
#16
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
I have several customers with ZTR's that will shut off the deck if both control levers are moved into the reverse direction, and then reactivate the deck if one or both are moved to go forward. So you can mow while turning around but cannot mow if moving straight backwards.
#17
B
bertsmobile1
Not seen one of them yet but will keep it in mind
Thank you
B
bertsmobile1
Thats good to knowI have several customers with ZTR's that will shut off the deck if both control levers are moved into the reverse direction, and then reactivate the deck if one or both are moved to go forward. So you can mow while turning around but cannot mow if moving straight backwards.
Not seen one of them yet but will keep it in mind
Thank you
#18
M
MowManMow
May be better with a mandatory prison term for those too ignorant to safely operate dangerous equipment near other people/animals than push this costly safety bull chit that only distracts/frustrates all operators.
The ignition/safety control part alone is over $100 on MTD Cubs & lasts 2-3yrs now days. Thats frustrating to me & I don't even own one..lol
M
MowManMow
Old post but I fully agree!! I'll double down on the seat switch being a Posi. Ive re-installed several on used Garden tractors I bought over the yrs before operating them. Always the first to get modified but pull a big mower off a close freind/relative just one time, it sort of makes one see the light on some safety concerns, just trust me.While the NMIR safety feature is some what of a joke & I for one feel it is totally unnecessary piece of complication that does absolutely nothing to make any one safer.
It is a safety item mandated by law in some states, so it is not prudent to encourage people to defeat it.
I appreciate that you sound like a reasonable person with sufficient understanding of a mowers electronics to do what you have done but broadcasting it encourages others who may not be mechanically compitent as yourself to follow suit.
The danger there is the seat switch , which is the only safety device on a mower which does protect the operator and those near by, is also close to the NMIR switch so you risk causing people to accidentially defeating that.
Most mowers are fitting a much more complicated NMIR switch which can not be defeated because if it is disconnected the mower will not start.
So broadcasting such things just causes NMIR systems to get more complicated.
May be better with a mandatory prison term for those too ignorant to safely operate dangerous equipment near other people/animals than push this costly safety bull chit that only distracts/frustrates all operators.
The ignition/safety control part alone is over $100 on MTD Cubs & lasts 2-3yrs now days. Thats frustrating to me & I don't even own one..lol
#19
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
One or two children (maybe more) get mowed over each year and injured or killed. That is why the manufacturer puts reverse safety switches. Every time the blades disengage, think of the wear and tear on the clutch and engine. There are ways of dealing with safety switches, which I will not go into on here.Old post but I fully agree!! I'll double down on the seat switch being a Posi. Ive re-installed several on used Garden tractors I bought over the yrs before operating them. Always the first to get modified but pull a big mower off a close freind/relative just one time, it sort of makes one see the light on some safety concerns, just trust me.
May be better with a mandatory prison term for those too ignorant to safely operate dangerous equipment near other people/animals than push this costly safety bull chit that only distracts/frustrates all operators.
The ignition/safety control part alone is over $100 on MTD Cubs & lasts 2-3yrs now days. Thats frustrating to me & I don't even own one..lol