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Vanguard 16 hp running rough

#1

1mk2

1mk2

I have a model 612 Grasshopper that I bought recently, if you look at some of my posts I give a little history on it and there are some photo's. I mowed several times with it and it mowed great but lately it has started to run rough, surging. So one day I took all the fuel lines off and made sure there was no stoppage and blew out the fuel pump also then put everything back and it ran smooth as silk. Now it is starting to run rough again and today I mowed about 8 passes and it stopped. I could turn it over and it would start but shut off in a few seconds. This time I took the fuel lines off and the fuel pump and blew them out and put a new gas filter on and it ran good but not the same power it did have. When I was finished mowing it was surging again but keep running without shutting off. Do you think it could be the fuel pump? This mower sat for a few years after the owner replaced the motor with a Vanguard 16 hp and was not able to get it running. Later the owner gave it to a mowing service for payment for their service and they found a loose wire on it and it ran. It has very few hours on it but it did sit for a time and don't know what that could have done. It ran so great at first going through high grass without a struggle and now I am having a problem and since I have used it and refueled it several times I know it is not stale gas and the air cleaner looks new, anyone have any ideas that I could check?

Thanks,

Mike


#2

S

shiftsuper175607

1mk2 said:
I have a model 612 Grasshopper that I bought recently, if you look at some of my posts I give a little history on it and there are some photo's. I mowed several times with it and it mowed great but lately it has started to run rough, surging. So one day I took all the fuel lines off and made sure there was no stoppage and blew out the fuel pump also then put everything back and it ran smooth as silk. Now it is starting to run rough again and today I mowed about 8 passes and it stopped. I could turn it over and it would start but shut off in a few seconds. This time I took the fuel lines off and the fuel pump and blew them out and put a new gas filter on and it ran good but not the same power it did have. When I was finished mowing it was surging again but keep running without shutting off. Do you think it could be the fuel pump? This mower sat for a few years after the owner replaced the motor with a Vanguard 16 hp and was not able to get it running. Later the owner gave it to a mowing service for payment for their service and they found a loose wire on it and it ran. It has very few hours on it but it did sit for a time and don't know what that could have done. It ran so great at first going through high grass without a struggle and now I am having a problem and since I have used it and refueled it several times I know it is not stale gas and the air cleaner looks new, anyone have any ideas that I could check?

Thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...

Does it have a carburetor?

If so, it needs cleaning.


#3

NorthBama

NorthBama

shiftsuper175607 said:
Does it have a carburetor?

If so, it needs cleaning.
Click to expand...

yes i agree check the carburetor maybe has some blockage inside the jets


#4

1mk2

1mk2

shiftsuper175607 said:
Does it have a carburetor?

If so, it needs cleaning.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I didn't think of that because it is a engine with very little hours on it but it did sit for awhile and maybe the gas gummed up in it from sitting so long but I can't figure out why it ran so good then up till now. I will definitely check that and let you all know if that was the problem.

Mike


#5

G

Grasshopperman101

1mk2 said:
I have a model 612 Grasshopper that I bought recently, if you look at some of my posts I give a little history on it and there are some photo's. I mowed several times with it and it mowed great but lately it has started to run rough, surging. So one day I took all the fuel lines off and made sure there was no stoppage and blew out the fuel pump also then put everything back and it ran smooth as silk. Now it is starting to run rough again and today I mowed about 8 passes and it stopped. I could turn it over and it would start but shut off in a few seconds. This time I took the fuel lines off and the fuel pump and blew them out and put a new gas filter on and it ran good but not the same power it did have. When I was finished mowing it was surging again but keep running without shutting off. Do you think it could be the fuel pump? This mower sat for a few years after the owner replaced the motor with a Vanguard 16 hp and was not able to get it running. Later the owner gave it to a mowing service for payment for their service and they found a loose wire on it and it ran. It has very few hours on it but it did sit for a time and don't know what that could have done. It ran so great at first going through high grass without a struggle and now I am having a problem and since I have used it and refueled it several times I know it is not stale gas and the air cleaner looks new, anyone have any ideas that I could check?

Thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...

Mike I would put new fuel lines on the mower if it was in my shop. We have seen time after time that the inside of the fuel lines break down with time. This plugs either the filter, fuel line, or the carb eventually. I am with the other guys in that the carb needs cleaned now to. I would not have recommended it needing clean at first since you did run it for some time before it started having issues. Usually one knows right away whether or not the carb is plugged after starting it. Also be sure the tank is clean. Any restriction out of the fuel tank at all will cause any of said symptoms. I hope you are able to find a fast repair!!


#6

1mk2

1mk2

Grasshopperman101 said:
Mike I would put new fuel lines on the mower if it was in my shop. We have seen time after time that the inside of the fuel lines break down with time. This plugs either the filter, fuel line, or the carb eventually. I am with the other guys in that the carb needs cleaned now to. I would not have recommended it needing clean at first since you did run it for some time before it started having issues. Usually one knows right away whether or not the carb is plugged after starting it. Also be sure the tank is clean. Any restriction out of the fuel tank at all will cause any of said symptoms. I hope you are able to find a fast repair!!
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the reply, the first thing I did when I started noticing a problem was to take off all gas lines and check them and they are in very good condition and fully opened. You have me thinking now about a line that is in the fuel tank its self that feeds the gas to the fuel pump that I didn't think to check so I will look at this line and then the carb. I am the care giver for both my parents which keeps me very busy, they are both in their 90's but am hoping to get a chance to look at the Grasshopper Saturday.

Thanks to everyone that has replied it has given me some good ideas of things to check. This mower did not have a fuel filter when I bought it and I have just put one on the last time I mowed so something could have gone though and clogged a jet. I will post a new thread when I find and correct the problem. Again thanks so much.

Mike


#7

B

bertsmobile1

You get this type of problem when grass clippings & other floating debris gets drawn into the fuel tank outlet.
Quick & dirty test is to rig up an alternative tank and when the mower stops, quickly swap the connections to the fuel pump with the alternative tank.
Problem goes away then it is tank cleaning time.
Golf T's make perfect plugs for fuel lines.


#8

1mk2

1mk2

Grasshopperman101 said:
Mike I would put new fuel lines on the mower if it was in my shop. We have seen time after time that the inside of the fuel lines break down with time. This plugs either the filter, fuel line, or the carb eventually. I am with the other guys in that the carb needs cleaned now to. I would not have recommended it needing clean at first since you did run it for some time before it started having issues. Usually one knows right away whether or not the carb is plugged after starting it. Also be sure the tank is clean. Any restriction out of the fuel tank at all will cause any of said symptoms. I hope you are able to find a fast repair!!
Click to expand...

I have taken off all fuel lines and am going to replace them, I would also like to clean the carb. How would you suggest cleaning the carb, spray carb cleaner into it or take it off and clean everything? I believe there is one jet but was pulled away yesterday before I got a chance to find where it was located. I do have the top of the carb off and the float looks good.

thanks,

Mike


#9

NorthBama

NorthBama

http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/

try this site and see if your carburetor is listed in the repair section


#10

G

Grasshopperman101

1mk2 said:
I have taken off all fuel lines and am going to replace them, I would also like to clean the carb. How would you suggest cleaning the carb, spray carb cleaner into it or take it off and clean everything? I believe there is one jet but was pulled away yesterday before I got a chance to find where it was located. I do have the top of the carb off and the float looks good.

thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...

Mike If it was the my shop I would take it off the engine, pull the bowl off and clean the main jet (should be easily seen with the bowl off). It is located in the center of the float. Also while you have the carb off, flip it upright and move the float up and down and watch the needle move. If it hangs any what so ever you will need to replace it. If it moves freely it is good to go. Make sure the carb is pretty level when you do this. Carb cleaner is fine to use. I use a ultra sonic cleaner and blow them out with forced air. Hope this helps!


#11

1mk2

1mk2

Grasshopperman101 said:
Mike If it was the my shop I would take it off the engine, pull the bowl off and clean the main jet (should be easily seen with the bowl off). It is located in the center of the float. Also while you have the carb off, flip it upright and move the float up and down and watch the needle move. If it hangs any what so ever you will need to replace it. If it moves freely it is good to go. Make sure the carb is pretty level when you do this. Carb cleaner is fine to use. I use a ultra sonic cleaner and blow them out with forced air. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...


Thanks, I didn't see your post till now, I was just looking at it and trying to see how and what I need to do to take it off. It looks like it is going to be quite a job to take off but I do think what you say is the best for me to do. Thanks so much,

Mike


#12

B

bertsmobile1

Mike ,
You should find all the instructions you need at http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/.
The only one missing is to take a photograph of everything before you remove it and after you remove it so you will have a refferrence when you come to putting it back together the way it was.


#13

1mk2

1mk2

I went to that site and couldn't find my carb there. I have a vanguard 16hp model 305447 and the carb is 305447-0001-F1. I am going to have my brother take a look at it but it appears the bolts that hold the carb in place are under the carb body and I can't get a wrench at them without tearing half the mower apart unless I am missing something that's why I am going to ask my brother to take a look to see if I am looking at it correctly. Nothing is ever easy.

Thanks,

Mike


#14

1mk2

1mk2

1mk2 said:
I went to that site and couldn't find my carb there. I have a vanguard 16hp model 305447 and the carb is 305447-0001-F1. I am going to have my brother take a look at it but it appears the bolts that hold the carb in place are under the carb body and I can't get a wrench at them without tearing half the mower apart unless I am missing something that's why I am going to ask my brother to take a look to see if I am looking at it correctly. Nothing is ever easy.

Thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...

OO.JPG AA.JPGBB.JPGCC.JPG

I am hoping these photo's come out. Where my screw driver is pointing is where the Carb is bolted from underneath the front (red) plate so I would have to remove that plate which would involve my taking the shaft off also. Another photo from the rear of the mower shows a bolt on the bottom of the carb (it is hard to see but I have a screw driver pointing at it. If the carb would be easy to take off I would tackle this job but I am uncomfortable not knowing what exactly I am getting myself into to get to the bolts for the removal of the carb. I am going to replace all fuel lines and clean what I can of the carb and put everything back together and hope for the best but if I still have a problem I will take it somewhere to have it done. Any advice on anything else I can do to the carb without taking it off that might help?

thanks for everyone's help,

Mike


#15

B

bertsmobile1

If everything was easy this forum would not exist.
So yes the red blower housing has to come off.
In fact it should come off every season of two the clean the cooling fins.
To pull that off the finger guard ( round bit ) has to come off first

When the guard comes off you will see the carb is not as hard to remove as you thought.
Remember the photos and in particular the ends where a rod or spring fits into a lever because the engines are multi functional so there is usually quite a few holes


#16

1mk2

1mk2

bertsmobile1 said:
If everything was easy this forum would not exist.
So yes the red blower housing has to come off.
In fact it should come off every season of two the clean the cooling fins.
To pull that off the finger guard ( round bit ) has to come off first

When the guard comes off you will see the carb is not as hard to remove as you thought.
Remember the photos and in particular the ends where a rod or spring fits into a lever because the engines are multi functional so there is usually quite a few holes
Click to expand...

I am not sure I understand. If you look at the finger guard in the photo you will see that coming out of the center of the guard is the drive shaft, is this what you are calling the finger? Must both ends of the drive shaft be taken off? If this was a small mower all I would have to do is take the finger guard off as you say and the carb would be easy to remove but I never tackled a drive shaft coming out of the engine such as on the Grasshopper and am not sure of the removal.

Thanks,

Mike


#17

B

bertsmobile1

Never pulled a hopper apart but most of the front drive mowers will have a telescoping PTO shaft.
So when the nuts come off the rod should push forward about an inch, just enough to get the finger guard off.
The blower housing gets pulled forward over the shaft but left in the mower.
The carb, complete with the manifold gets removed as a unit by removing the manifold bots to the head which are fairly easy to get at.
On some you can wiggle the carb & manifold out with the blower housing in place.
Remove the spark plugs and put some rope down the plug hole to lock the piston so you can undo the PTO bolts if they are stuck fast, do not hold the shaft with Stilsons or Vice Grips.


#18

Boobala

Boobala

Check out sections 4 & 1 ..... might be of help ........

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1yZHlwUk9CWlNwYVE/edit


#19

1mk2

1mk2

Boobala said:
Check out sections 4 & 1 ..... might be of help ........

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1yZHlwUk9CWlNwYVE/edit
Click to expand...

Wow, thanks so much there is some very useful info there. I have saved this site to my computer, appreciate this info very much. I am still trying to figure out how to get to the carb to take it off, This is my first Grasshopper and I am not sure of the procedure of taking off the drive shaft so I can get the front plate of the engine off to get in under the carb where the mounting bolts are. If not for this I would already have the carb off and cleaned. When and if I am able to get the carb off the info you passed along will be priceless to me and it is something I will always keep while I own the Grasshopper.

Thanks again,

Mike


#20

Boobala

Boobala

1mk2 said:
Wow, thanks so much there is some very useful info there. I have saved this site to my computer, appreciate this info very much. I am still trying to figure out how to get to the carb to take it off, This is my first Grasshopper and I am not sure of the procedure of taking off the drive shaft so I can get the front plate of the engine off to get in under the carb where the mounting bolts are. If not for this I would already have the carb off and cleaned. When and if I am able to get the carb off the info you passed along will be priceless to me and it is something I will always keep while I own the Grasshopper.

Thanks again,

Mike
Click to expand...

You're quite Welcome, .. Boo

ALSO : as stated in post # 12 ...... PICTURES take lots of em, and especially of SPRINGS & LINKAGES !!


#21

B

bertsmobile1

As previously mentioned the carb comes off still attached to the intake manifold.
You will not be able to access the rear carb mounting bolts with it on the engine.
The manifold is held on by 4 easy to access bolts ( 2 each side )


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