Export thread

Two weeks ago I sought help from a different online forum. In an effort to divulge all that was considered on that forum I submit the web address for consideration.
https://www.lawnsite.com/threads/troy-bilt-briggs-wont-start.484327/
I used the suggestions provided and still have no spark.
Hopefully someone here will be able to suggest something that has not yet been tried.

The test for bad coil is to remove the ground wire/Kill wire from the tab on the coil, and with a known good plug crank the engine. If no spark replace the coil, if you have spark then something is wrong with the kill wire or the kill switch. Can't really test the new coils with a ohm meter because of the electronics inside don't allow for that to work properly, and in some cases the voltage generated by the battery in the meter can actually destroy the electronic trigger inside the coil

In regard to "remove the ground wire/Kill wire from the tab on the coil, and with a known good plug crank the engine. If no spark replace the coil," That is one of the things that I did do. I did not know that a new coil can't be ohm tested. Perhaps that suggests that the out-of-spec high end reading is irrelevant? However, with a new coil properly mounted on the engine there still is no spark.

Magnets on the flywheel can go bad creating your issue..... Take a 1/2 inch combo wrench and put it near the magnet.

See how far from the mag it pulls..........

I applied the recommended wrench test: At approximately one inch from the flywheel the wrench is pulled strongly into the wheel.

This morning the coil seller offered a return of both new coils for a refund. Although I get ohm readings exceeding the high end of the supposed spec of 5.0K at the 20K ohms setting I'm reluctant to return them until I can definitely determine why I get no spark.

I'm hoping someone will have a solution. Should it be something other than the coil perhaps the old coil is usable. It has a bench test reading of 4.31K ohms which is near the high end and that is why it was previously recommended that I replace it.

Well this is how the system works.
Remember the old days when you had points ?
The points simply made & broke the ground connection to the coil to prevent the voltage generated by the moving magnet being released till the piston was in the correct place.
Well the voltage generated in the coil is not an on/off event, it starts at 0 volts, goes up to around 1500V then drops off to 0 again.
In 1962 a mob down here realised you could measure the voltage rising in the coil and electronically make & break the ground contact.
It is called a Hall Effect Trigger ( google it ).
Atom marketed them for 30 years till the patient expired then every engine maker that was too cheap ( Briggs & Tecumseh ) to pay Atom royalties made their own trigger.
Fist off they were small circuit boards , around the size of a postage stamp & 1/8" thick & were fitted externally.
You can still buy them like that and these last almost forever.
However engine companies worked out the tiny circuit board which cost around $ 2 could be replace with a chip embeded into the coil which costs around 10¢.
This also makes the coil & trigger 1 item which reduces the assembly & inventory costs .
It also allows them to charge up to $ 100 for a $ 10 item because it is now unique and not repairable.
The voltages measured are tiny and the current is even tinier still so a cheap OHM meter shoves current down the probes and measures the drop in the return voltage and uses Ohm's Law ( google it ) to convert voltage drop into resistance .
Thus taking an Ohm reading on the primary side can destroy the control chip.
Now you can measure the secondary resistance, because the coil is also a transformer and has 2 sets of windings, a primary ( has the chip on it ) & the secondary ( has the spark plug on it ).
However as it is a single unit & not repairable measuring anything on it just wastes time & proves you have no idea about how the magneto module actually works.
You only do 2 tests on a magneto.
1) remove the kill wire
2) tug on the spark plug boot to confirm it is actually connected.

Because the system works on magnetism & magnetism travels through rust, paper, wood, earth etc etc removing rust will make zero difference to a magneto unless it is so thick the coil legs actually touch the magnets, but that willbe visually apparent because there will be scrape marks o the magnets.
So the instant some one starts talking about cleaning the rust off, you can forget about anything they say cause they are just keyboard clowns regurgitating the rubbish some equally as scientifically ignorant moron has been sprouting on the web in order to make themselves look important / smart etc.

Now back to your problem.
Without the ground wire connected and if the coils themselves have a good ground ( clean where that contact the mounts ) then it either generates a spark or it dont so as previously mentioned it works or it gets replaced.
Different coils have different chips in them so in most cases they are not interchangable regardless of weather they make a spark or not.

Finally.
The only scrap in China is what they import to reprocess or salvage.
So parts made by the OEM supplier to Briggs / Kohler / Honda that fail quality control get on sold to surplus wholesalers ( along with genuine surpluses ) and ultimately sold to cheapskates via ebay amazon etc.
OEM does not mean works it simply means it came out of the same factory.
I can buy coils direct from China for $ 5 or from Hong Kong for $ 5 to $ $20, but I pay $ 40 to get identical looking ones from my wholesale supplier because these are the ones that work properly.

And as for different forums.
I bought the service run 5 years ago and being fairly at home around small engines thought it would be a breeze.
It wasn't so i joined every forum, group or sewing circle in any way connected to mower, trimmer & chain saws ( some of the arbourist sites are really worrying ) .
Now I do not like to bad mouth people who are doing things with good intentions.
However there was only one place that consistantly had good & more importantly correct information, and you are reading this post on it.
Others did have value including archives of service information which was very helpful & where possible I added to them.
But when it comes to getting a currently used mower back up & running this site is head & shoulders above anything else on the web.
If you are restoring an ancheint mower for the fun of it & not particularly to use then Mymower forum would in general be a better place and of course single brand sites.

I appreciate the thorough commentary in this regard. After all of what I have tried I am still uncertain as to whether the coil is positively 100% the cause of the problem. The old original coil has a resistance reading (4.31K) that is near the high end of suggested specs (2.5K to 5.0K) so it was recommended that I try a new one. $58 U.S. (at ereplacementparts) is a high price to pay for a part that might not even solve the problem. For me, the $12 I spent for an aftermarket part was worth the risk. I have no way of knowing whether the coils from China were defective, especially since you debunked the resistance testing that I did which I depended on for factual resistance readings. Not being familiar with small engine repair I had hoped to learn by doing and economically be able to revive the very old mower.

Bert..

Don't forget to add that Hall effect sensors are all over automobiles, from the rear end (speedometer sensors) to the engine ECM triggers to the brakes, ABS sensors.

How or why is this in anyway related to this thread?

Only in so much as reinsuring you that "Hall Effect Sensors" are not some sort of voodoo electronic magic.

Some repair manuals do have resistance readings, usually only for the secondary side ( coil leg to spark plug ) however these specifically apply to the specific meter made specifically for that brand of engine, not something bought from Harbour Freight.
But 1/2 witts read the numbers and type them into their presentations with no understanding about what they mean, or even worse will flip through a manual, see specks for a coil with a remote control unit and quote these with great authority.
Then there are special testing machines that read the actual pattern of the generated spark, its out put & duration.
They cost near $ 20,000 and usually need a known good coil for calibration so again, the industry standard is to replace with a known good one.
Easy for me I just grab a new one off the shelf hook it up, gap it too wide ( 0.020" ) and check for a spark. If I get one regap to 0.010" and give it back to the customer.
I use an inline spark tester ( red neon tube type ) and can tell from the intensity of the glow what is going on.
A good coil under a good magnet will make a strong spark when at the far end of its mounts ~ .150" to .250" or if using a 3 point tester, throw a 1/2" spark once the engine gets up to speed.
The wrong magneto module will not generate a spark or generate a weak spark.
Because the spark is made by a rotating magnet, it can be a + or a - spark depending which way the magnet is.
A module made for a N-S magnet rotation will not work properly on a flywheel with a S-N magnet rotation and then there are magnets that are mounted radially so they just have N or S pole pointing at the magneto module.

Because they are so fragile, most retailers will not take them back & I am the same.
I fit & test one for free, if the mower is supplied stripped ready for instalation but will not take a claimed DOA module back.
Anyone who will happily do that would be suspected of flogging off known iffy modules.

If you want to do your repair n the cheap then you are better off going to small ( Mar & Par ) repair shop and ask them for a 2nd hand coil.
make sure you have the full engine number, including the serial section with you because Briggs change specks , as of engine number ??????.

And I thought I was confused before. By "full engine number, including the serial section", do you mean that for my Briggs the serial number 12F802 0833 1 would be considered a full number?

NeedAFix said:

And I thought I was confused before. By "full engine number, including the serial section", do you mean that for my Briggs the serial number 12F802 0833 1 would be considered a full number?

Click to expand...

Yes it is not as easy as most would think which is a good reason to buy from some one who actually knows what they are selling and not an on line vendor who buys a pallet of part XYZ and then sells XYZ without the foggiest idea of what XYZ is or should work like.

That is the engine number .
It is the same for every engine troy-bilt bought in that order for that mower.
The serial number is the next bit 8 to 10 digits and in there is the year ( first 2 numbers ) followed by the day ( 1-365 ), followed by a code for the production line & the factory .so these are different one day to the next.

In spite of your extensive explanations I am still confused about ohm testing. Rather than warning of the hazards of resistance testing, Briggs recommends it. Copyright 2009 Briggs & Stratton. All rights reserved, in part: "Check the impedance (resistance) of the secondary circuit at room temperature. Hook an ohmmeter test lead to the spark plug terminal of the high-tension lead and another to the lamination stack (ground). Your resistance reading should range between 2,500 and 5,000 ohms." http://eu-en.myfaqcenter.com/Answer/?p_faqid=3805
There are a multitude of instructions and videos in regard to resistance testing Briggs coils, however, I am unable to find any sites that warn of the use of that process. Is there a reason why that information is not more common?

Going back to the previous post.
the module is both a generator and a transformer
On a car coil, 12 volts goes through the primary winding and in doing that the secondary windings convert the 12 V to 30,000 V which goes to the spark plug. Zap.
In a magneto coil, the magnet passing the primary winding generates (induces to be technically correct ) around 1500V in the primary which is connected to the chip.
The primary can not be tested without pulse generators.
The 1500V in the primary converts to 30,000V in the secondary coil and this is attached to the spark plug. Zap.
So you can do a simple Ohms test of the secondary which was in the previous reply.
But you can not repair or replace the secondary winding on the coil, just the same as you can not replace the secondary winding in your cars coil.
Both the primary & the secondary are together potted onto the laminations so as previously mentioned it is pointless.
On many of the coils/ modules. the spark plug lead is soldered onto the secondary so it can not be replaced without breaking the housing and even if it a screw in spark plug lead it is still potted in with a very high resistance resin.

If you are a Briggs technician doing a warranty service on a failed magneto module then Briggs want the readings which go on file & can be used to identify a bad or substandard batch of magneto module coils.
It also justifies the warranty credit of a new magneto coil for the dealers stock to replace the one they fitted to the customers mower.

To every one else it is pointless because if the secondary is faulty, the whole module is faulty and the module can not be repaired .
If the chip is burned out then the whole module is trash because it can not generate a spark and the module can not be repaired
If the primary windings are bad the whole module is trash because it can not generate a spark and the module can not be repaired.

Not knowing Troy-bilt walk behinds I assumed that this is a push mower with a pull start.
If it is an electric start then you need to check that the kill wire does not get battery voltage which will fry the chip.
If it is a pull start mower then the only repair you can do is to replace the module , or if the flywheel has poor magnetism, replace it as well.

So either the module you bought was dead in the box or you fitted it upside down.
Back in the previous post I mentioned polarity.
Some coils have legs that are the same size.
these can be installed upside down.
To the windings this is the same as reversing the magnet polarity and in that case the module will not work either.
Because of this the coils are usually marked This Side Up.
Generally the grounding tab will be underneath.

So it will be worthwile checking that you have fitted the module the right way round.
Usually fitting them upside down does not damage them.
We probably should have mentioned this earlier on but the coils are usually clearly marked.

NeedAFix said:

In spite of your extensive explanations I am still confused about ohm testing. Rather than warning of the hazards of resistance testing, Briggs recommends it. Copyright 2009 Briggs & Stratton. All rights reserved, in part: "Check the impedance (resistance) of the secondary circuit at room temperature. Hook an ohmmeter test lead to the spark plug terminal of the high-tension lead and another to the lamination stack (ground). Your resistance reading should range between 2,500 and 5,000 ohms." http://eu-en.myfaqcenter.com/Answer/?p_faqid=3805
There are a multitude of instructions and videos in regard to resistance testing Briggs coils, however, I am unable to find any sites that warn of the use of that process. Is there a reason why that information is not more common?

Click to expand...

I will jump in here and say something before I start talking LOL............

It looks like you are dead set on checking the coil for OHM impedance....... Like Bert said earlier don't rely on that, and don't rely on what Briggs have in their website.... There are a few meters you can use to test coils, BUT the cheap ones are not reliable for what you want.... A good FLUKE meter is what Briggs sells to their technicians thru their tool catalogs.......

There are only a few things for spark on a Briggs engine like you have.... The flywheel magnets, a good coil and a good grounding area where the coil bolts to.... No ground no spark...... A flat bastard file will do the trick to clean up the mounting posts........

It seems you have good magnets....... Coil is iffy if not bad ......... How are you checking for spark ????? In line tester that is a quality one or a Harbor Freight cheapo ????

The best tester is to grab the plug and have someone pull the rope....... LOL.....

I did read most of the other forum posts and I didn't see where you took the wire off of the coil itself to see if the ground wire was shorting against the engine somewhere........

Either you have a bad MOUNTING ground or a bad coil or a good coil and not seeing spark....... If so then you have a fuel issue.... Don't worry about a sheared flywheel key because it will still throw spark but at a different time for TDC....

Please keep away from OHM testing trying to solve your issue.... Get a good known coil and put it on your engine to try... A lot of those coils are used on many engines that size.. Example a coil from a 6.25 will fit a 6.5 and a 6.75....

Most lawn mower shops will keep good coils and sell them for half price.... I do sell good used parts to local people that can't afford new parts..

Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!

Okay, no more ohms talk. I'm getting to much information that is way to technical and questions are being asked that I have already addressed either here or in the other forum. The general consensus is still that the coil is the problem and the fix is to "try" another coil. "Get a good known coil", I thought I did that when I bought the new coils. I borrowed my Son's mower so I have cut the grass for the last time this season. If I figure out how to economically get a proper coil to "try" I'll tackle this problem again or, as someone suggested, I might just give up and look for a reasonably priced (the price of a OEM coil?) working used mower on craigslist. Should I resolve the no-spark issue I'll update this thread. I appreciate everyone's effort to assist.

NeedaFix - if u still have the ignition, email\call B&S. If they still have the same warranty as their old motors, the SS ignition is lifetime warranty. I don't know how they would handle it in that only replace to a dealer, want original receipt, or whatever...

As Boux indicated earlier, an electrically solid ground connection is often overlooked in this system.
Make sure that the towers to which the coils are mounted are clean, as well as the coil armature at this point,
and the underside of the washer head screws which secure the coil to the towers (engine frame.)
Also, make sure you set your coil-to-magnet gap per specs (about .010" if I am not mistaken.)
Good luck

Ronno6 said:

As Boux indicated earlier, an electrically solid ground connection is often overlooked in this system.
Make sure that the towers to which the coils are mounted are clean, as well as the coil armature at this point,
and the underside of the washer head screws which secure the coil to the towers (engine frame.)
Also, make sure you set your coil-to-magnet gap per specs (about .010" if I am not mistaken.)
Good luck

Click to expand...

Problem is Ronno he has been fed a pile of popular belief BS from some twerps on lawnsite that he can not get out of his head.
HE has been told about grounding and correct orientation of the coil ( although he has not confirmed orientation yet )
He bought cheapie coils off ebay and the vendor offered to replace or refund right up which to me means the vendor knows he is selling dubious coils because we know how difficult it is to return coils , even for licensed techs with trade accounts.
He also refuses to accept that a magneto coil either works or does not work.
He also refuses to understand that just because the magneto fits the space it might not be the correct one.

Illengine , Boudreaux & myself, three full time mower techs have all chimed in telling him the same thing but he would rather trust some shoved monkey on you tube.
Some people just can not be helped.
I don't think I could have explained things better without resorting to 20 pages of calculations and 50 diagrams.

Yeah but.......
I can relate as to having ideas rolling around in my head that I cannot reconcile......right,wrong,or otherwise.
I understand the circular logic...
Sometimes ya just gotta spell it out on a 3 x 5 index card in magic marker, stick it on a 20 penny spike
driven thru the end of a 4' long 2 x 4, and deliver to the forehead.......

NeedAFix said:

Okay, no more ohms talk. I'm getting to much information that is way to technical and questions are being asked that I have already addressed either here or in the other forum. The general consensus is still that the coil is the problem and the fix is to "try" another coil. "Get a good known coil", I thought I did that when I bought the new coils. I borrowed my Son's mower so I have cut the grass for the last time this season. If I figure out how to economically get a proper coil to "try" I'll tackle this problem again or, as someone suggested, I might just give up and look for a reasonably priced (the price of a OEM coil?) working used mower on craigslist. Should I resolve the no-spark issue I'll update this thread. I appreciate everyone's effort to assist.

Click to expand...

Hey Mon Ami Does 23.00 $ for a good coil sound good to you ???? That will be shipped to your door for that price.....

Let me know Mon Ami ~!~!

Bonjour,Boux

Ronno6 said:

Bonjour,Boux

Click to expand...

Hello to you too Ronno,,,,,,,, Yes I'm back from a 2 week vacation ~!~!

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:

Hey Mon Ami Does 23.00 $ for a good coil sound good to you ???? That will be shipped to your door for that price.....
Let me know Mon Ami ~!~!

Click to expand...

Off topic, I have not been getting email notices of replies to this forum. Can that be fixed? If so, how?

Contrary to the opinion of some, I have replied to questions asked and I have tried what has been suggested. Boudreaux, yes, I would like to mount a known good coil to determine that the coil is really the problem. I don't know how we would proceed with the transaction. Please advise.

NeedAFix said:

Off topic, I have not been getting email notices of replies to this forum. Can that be fixed? If so, how?

Contrary to the opinion of some, I have replied to questions asked and I have tried what has been suggested. Boudreaux, yes, I would like to mount a known good coil to determine that the coil is really the problem. I don't know how we would proceed with the transaction. Please advise.

Click to expand...

First check your alert box for a message I sent you. The alert box is the 4th icon from the left....

As for as alerts to your email I don't know because I get them automatically when someone replies, but I am on here all the time anyway so I see it before it's sent to my email..........

Off Topic

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:

As for as alerts to your email I don't know because I get them automatically when someone replies..

Click to expand...

Odd, I got an email notifying me of your "Private Message" but I did not get an email about your new forum response in that regard.

NeedAFix said:

Off Topic


Odd, I got an email notifying me of your "Private Message" but I did not get an email about your new forum response in that regard.

Click to expand...

I think there is a way in settings to get regular notifications to your Email but I don't know how to direct you to that....

Maybe Catherine can help you with that,,,,, but if you are not going to be on here for a long period of time then you won't need it...

Unless you want to join us on here regular to say Hello and hang around.... BTW I got your PM and I will make a video of the coil you need on You Tube and show you that it works OK.......

I will post a link when I make the video Mon Ami ~!~!

Need A Fix........... Ok I got you a coil...... I had one of of the same engine you have and I tested it on another mower I have here... No Meter test a real test.......

DO NOT PUT A METER ON THIS COIL TO COMPARE READINGS. Please...... I will ship in a couple days when the Pay Pal goes in the bank......

Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!

Recap: TroyBilt push mower, pull cord recoil start, 4 cycle 5HP B&S engine, no spark
The fact that you assured me that you will eventually send me a known good coil is reason enough for me to NOT use a meter to test resistance. I have meter tested the wires on the kill switch (both the ground side and the run side) and the wiring is good. Once the coil is properly installed (gapped and right side up) I will reassemble the engine cover and fuel tank. To initially test for spark I will spray starting fluid into the carb throat and then attempt to start. Hopefully I'll get sound from the starting fluid igniting and know that I finally have spark.

The coil is on it's way to you.... I sent it Priority 2 day but you know how that goes..... LOL..... If you need the tracking number let me know Mon Ami ~!~!

Nearly successful with a very confusing result! First, what I feel is some needed background about the Kill Wire:

Initially, in regard to the original OEM coil, on the LawnSite Forum (Oct 17), the kill wire was addressed in message #12: "You did not post if you had spark or not with the kill wire disconnected. Did you try that?" I replied in message #13: "I went and mounted the coil without the wire connected, reassembled things, and got no spark."

On this forum, in message #3 (Oct 30), I wrote: "In regard to 'remove the ground wire/Kill wire from the tab on the coil, and with a known good plug crank the engine. If no spark replace the coil,' That is one of the things that I did do." Also in that message I wrote: "However, with a new coil properly mounted on the engine there still is no spark."

So, I have been following suggestions. I had tested the original coil and the two news coils that I had with both the kill wire connected and with it disconnected and either way I got no spark.

Yesterday I got a used (but known to be good) coil from Boudreaux. He was kind enough to remind me to " Please leave the black kill wire off for the first start up and run". Knowing that I had tested the other three coils numerous times with the wire disconnected, today I decided to try something different. I disconnected the run lead and the ground lead and then completely removed the kill wire assembly from the engine. I then properly mounted the used (but known to be good) coil and reassembled things. The mower started up and ran. After it ran for a while I pulled the plug wire to stop it.

Glad that it was running I began to wonder if the used (but known to be good) coil was the solution or if removing the kill wire assembly had any effect. So I decided to remove the used (but known to be good) coil and replace it with the original OEM coil. Surprise, surprise, the mower started up and ran.

From the very beginning, Oct 16: "the mower started easily but before I walked 100 feet it slowed to a stop, much like it would when a mower runs out of gas." Is that a symptom of a kill wire assembly problem? I have the kill wire assembly on my desk. There are no breaks in either wire and none of the insulation is worn or missing. Makes no sense to me.

That means you have a break in the insulation somewhere and it is shorting against the engine somewhere.....

That is why I asked you if you took the kill wire off of the coil completly and tried to start it.....

Maybe a few pics would have helped also with your diagnonsis.... Most mowera have only a kill switch when you let go the handle it stops the mower....

Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!

Oh BTW I have no idea what you are talking about when you say take off run lead and ground lead.... There is only 1 wire that goes to the coil and that's the ground kill wire... If anything else is hooked to the coil then it's not gonna run or blow the coil up ~!~!

Oh and yes walking 100 feet and it stops is a symptom of a coil overheating and going dead....

I'm confused, again.

The kill switch wiring assembly that I have has two wires with a connector on one end that goes to the coil.

"asked you if you took the kill wire off of the coil completly"? To me that means unplugging the connector from the coil. Once it is unplugged it has no contact at all with the coil. What other meaning is there?

"Most mowera have only a kill switch when you let go the handle it stops the mower". That is how this Troy-Bilt works, let go of the handle and it stops.

Looking at a Briggs parts site, as best as I can tell if I'm looking at it correctly, I see that Briggs calls this a WIRE STOP, item #[356C], Briggs and Stratton 690808.
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...ic-starter-electrical-flywheel-brake-ignition
.
Only that WIRE STOP is plugged into the coil blade that is on the underside of the coil. What I called the "run" side is where one wire goes from the coil connector and connects to the cable side that closes when the bail is closed. The second wire I called a ground. It goes from the coil connector toward the front of the engine and plugs into a blade that looks to me like a ground connection.

"walking 100 feet and it stops is a symptom of a coil overheating and going dead". That description was the original symptom that I reported. However, the old original coil is not dead, it is now mounted and it is working. I ran it for about a half of an hour cutting up some leaves.

I'm not sure how this will look but it is an image of the wire that I removed from the engine.

I see what you mean now by a run side...... Where does that spade plug go to ????? The bare end goes to the lil hook on the kill brake assembly..

If you are plugging the spade plug to a ground somewhere then that is a direct ground to kill the spark on the coil.....

It seems to me that spade plug is going to something the has a isolator washer or bushing that is worn out and making contact with the metal.......

Most versions have only 1 wire coming from the coil and it hooks to the kill brake assembly and when you release the handle the brake moves and then makes ground contact and kills spark to the coil.....

I would look real good at what that spade plugs to... That's where your problem was all this time.......

Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!

If you did indeed unplug the wire from the coil itself in the beginning, you should have had spark......

I don't know how many times I have to report that I unplugged what I now believe is called the WIRE STOP from the coil. As I wrote earlier today, I first unplugged it from the coil on Oct 17. And, although I "should have had spark", I did not have spark until today and that occurred only after I completely removed the WIRE STOP from the engine.

About plugging the spade plug (?), I did not do anything to either end of the two wires. They were always connected as they had been from the factory. The only thing I repeatedly did when suggested was pull the connector from the coil.

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:

I see what you mean now by a run side...... Where does that spade plug go to ????? The bare end goes to the lil hook on the kill brake assembly..

If you are plugging the spade plug to a ground somewhere then that is a direct ground to kill the spark on the coil.....

It seems to me that spade plug is going to something the has a isolator washer or bushing that is worn out and making contact with the metal.......

Most versions have only 1 wire coming from the coil and it hooks to the kill brake assembly and when you release the handle the brake moves and then makes ground contact and kills spark to the coil.....

I would look real good at what that spade plugs to... That's where your problem was all this time.......

Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!

Click to expand...

Most push mower engines only have the single bare end wire to the tab kill. I have seen the two wire setup on horizontal more than vertical. The bare wire goes to the familiar kill tab, and the spaded end goes to a tab held on with a bolt embedded in a square plastic push in insert near the throttle lever. More common on the old horizontal flat head engines with the tank below the carb, but was used on a lot of rear engine snappers with the vertical 8 hp engine. that tab/wire is used for remote on/off switch. When you replace the ignition module they will come with that two wire system, but only one is normally used, and I clip the other wire close to the connector for the coil to avoid possible ground issues.

ILENGINE said:

Most push mower engines only have the single bare end wire to the tab kill. I have seen the two wire setup on horizontal more than vertical. The bare wire goes to the familiar kill tab, and the spaded end goes to a tab held on with a bolt embedded in a square plastic push in insert near the throttle lever. More common on the old horizontal flat head engines with the tank below the carb, but was used on a lot of rear engine snappers with the vertical 8 hp engine. that tab/wire is used for remote on/off switch. When you replace the ignition module they will come with that two wire system, but only one is normally used, and I clip the other wire close to the connector for the coil to avoid possible ground issues.

Click to expand...

I agree with IL Engine... I have seen the 2 wire systems also and they are mostly on the engines you can increase and decrease the throttle and then all the slow is the kill area on the cluster...

I just made a video on the one wire system sinse I have an engine off the frame and on a temporary inside work table....

It's a overhaul job to do for a friend.... It amazes me how far a spark can jump... I have seen plug wires off the plug 3 inches away and it still runs.... You may have been jumping from the wire to the coil.....

When the video uploads I will post the link so you can watch it......

Plus Tard.........

"the spaded end goes to a tab held on with a bolt embedded in a square plastic push in insert near the throttle lever", excellent description of what I was referring to, most probably wrongly, as the ground lead.

I'm thinking that tomorrow I will to reinstall the WIRE STOP to see if I'll be able to use the bail release to stop the mower. However, I will not connect "the spaded end". I'll tape that end so that it makes no contact. I will then connect what you described "the bare wire goes to the familiar kill tab" and see what happens.

OK the video finally up loaded.....

https://youtu.be/NbQxSWs85x8

Success! All along the problem was not with the coil but with that second wire with the spaded end. I now know that the original OEM coil and the used (but known to be good) coil both work. And I learned that the aftermarket coil (from China) also works because I installed it today. I only connected the one wire to the kill switch and brake assembly and I taped the other wire and tucked it out of the way. So, the mower is running.

Thanks to everyone that assisted.

Glad you got it finally............. Now you have a lifetime supply of coils............. Just buy a mower that has the same type coil on it and you in great shape......