Export thread

Hello,

I hope someone can help, I'm out of my knowledge range with this.

My Honda HF1211, engine GXV340, will not start, the engine will not turn (is not being spun) to fire up.

It just makes a sound like a toy machine gun.

I thought must be battery, so I connected a fully charged spare 12v battery via jump leads (and without) but still the same. Tried 2 other batteries, known good but still same.

Thought it must be solenoid - so I got another but the problem is still the same.

Figured then it must be the starter so I got another one, fitted it up ... but its the same, the problem remains.

I really don't know what to check or do now, the obvious connections I see look clean.

With cover off I can see the starter does not have enough power to lift and engage and spin (see video link).

It really 110% is not battery, I have tried several known good batteries.
Might it still be solenoid? Have I bought a duff starter.

Here is a link to a short video of my issue (a google link) https://photos.app.goo.gl/hwC3AdfQh7osjC9X9.

Can anyone help point me in the right direction, any help would be appreciated so much as I'm really at my wits end with it.

Kev

Looks like the starter is spinning fast enough. Looks like either the gear is stuck down, or for some crazy reason the starter is turning backwards which will prevent the gear from coming up to engage the flywheel. Battery or wiring not connected backwards is it.

ILENGINE said:

Looks like the starter is spinning fast enough. Looks like either the gear is stuck down, or for some crazy reason the starter is turning backwards which will prevent the gear from coming up to engage the flywheel. Battery or wiring not connected backwards is it.

Click to expand...

yes i have seen one an older gentleman put a new battery in his LT and connected the cables backwards and the starter gear would not rise up to engage the flywheel ring gear.

Hi,

it is def the right way round, that was/is the fault.

i.e it has stopped starting and does this now but it worked before.

I notice my replacement solenoid is different to the one on the engine, didn't notice at first it has 2 wires from middle not one so I will order, it may still be a solenoid fault. (hope)

This is what i need (impossible to find one in the UK !). Honda 35850-ZF5-V01 Starter Magnetic Switch Assy For GXV340

Possibly someone could tell me, to test the solenoid I read jumping/bridging the terminals is the way. Is it the 2 big screw lugs that I need to bridge to test ?

First thing first.

Can you rotate the engine by hand pressing on the debris screen ?
If not take the spark plugs out & try again.

Let us know what what you find.

I did supply a starter to a customer than came back "defective" cause it would not spin the engine.
The teeth looked a funny so I swapped the starter for another used one, tested the defective one & it worked fine.
The customer came back claiming the 2nd starter was bad .
I knew this was good as it came from an engine I pulled down.
So I went back to the customers house & found the engine siezed solid and by solid I mean an 8' long bar on the flywheel could not turn over the engine

Hi, yes the engine turns by hand without problem. Compression feels spot on.

Battery (batteries) all fully charged.

the fault as seen in the video existed before I took apart to swap new starter thinking iot was the starter motor itself i.e it was running good (I had to jump it due to onboard battery needs replacing) but then one day it won't lift starter and engage flywheel, spin and fire up. That's my problem. So its not fuel or spark plug etc as I am not that far in the fire up process. The starter at the moment doesn't know if engine turns freely (which it does) as its not lifting and engaging so I figure it can only be starter of solenoid.

I need to test the solenoid today as they are quite pricey and quite hard to get one here in the UK at a sensible price. Does anyone know if the universal ones might interchange ? It is part # Honda-35850-ZF5-V01

A solenoid is a relay with coil ( small Wires) some have 2 small wires and some only have one small wire and uses the metal mounting bolts for negative ground. The 2 large wires with nut terminals are the heavy amperage relay contacts that close when 12 volts DC is applied to the coil. if the starter is spinning the solenoid contacts are closing to apply power to the starter. Make sure the starter gear moves up the shaft freely and is not hanging up on the starter gear shaft. Any solenoid will work as long as the amperage rating is enough for the starter amperage draw the mounting plate may be different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyZgswc1sB4

ah ok that helps, so the 2 wires at the front of mine carry ground ?

On a typical 4 terminal solenoid - one small wire is +12v from the key switch, other small wire is ground. I don't know the above solenoid but logic dictates the male plug is +12v and the round eye is for a ground under a bolt head.

dougand3 said:

On a typical 4 terminal solenoid - one small wire is +12v from the key switch, other small wire is ground. I don't know the above solenoid but logic dictates the male plug is +12v and the round eye is for a ground under a bolt head.

Click to expand...

Yes I agree with the above post

perfect. I bench test wired it up and it made sense.

The round is a small ground and the other wire a +12v to the key.

I have just got it all in bench test situ. Short video of it bench tested and operating correctly.... but not under load > https://photos.app.goo.gl/1DpTBkLqdWpwa4gb9

I think I can concentrate on the wiring, the solenoid and starter appear to be operating correctly ... or am I jumping ahead of myself as its not under load. I guess the next step is to connect it the same as the bench test in the mower to establish if it still works the same or is the load/effort to rise going to be too much.

Can a faulty solenoid lose power to engage the starter?. Im sort of thinking its a go / no-go scenario or do they have an inbetween because I was sure I had 12v measured but I doubt myself now (it was late).

The bench test video looks good. Turns CCW = good. Pinion gear moves outward ~1" = good. It should grab the flywheel teeth. Now, in the first video - I don't see the pinion gear moving outward. Maybe it does and I can't tell. If it does, starter is too low on engine. This isn't a weak starter that can't handle a load issue - at least YET. Starter doesn't have a load until pinion teeth meet flywheel teeth.

I've had success.

I reattached the starter and solenoid, also double checked the solenoid against a heavy duty relay I had, (I don't think these ones have a coil they just switch like a normal relay (1/10th of the price).
Everything was good but when fitted to the mower again it was not working right. I didn't have enough jump leads to add a known good direct to battery lead to ensure a good earth so bought a new battery as mine needed replacing anyway (then this way I didn't need to use my leads to jump the not so good mower battery and freed up my leads).

Cleaned up all terminals and removed/reaffixed the earth cable.

All back together and vroom, started like a champ. Grass cut (2.5 months !).

The annoyance is I really don't know exactly what the problem was but as a suggestion if anyone else has this. I jumped using known good batteries but it was def better using a direct new one.
1. So. Get a new battery if yours is over a year old, not a lot of money and gives you a good start.
2. Take it apart and clean up all the earths and connections. Get some brake cleaner and wash out/clean up your starter.
3. Bench test the starter and solenoid, there's plenty of excellent videos on you Tube (like this one for example) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFPNXq69y6A
* these solenoids are not solenoids in the true sense, they are actually heavy duty relays and a generic one like this https://images.app.goo.gl/uoXWcCHozK8M6ngQ8 will do the job just fine (I tested it) and for a fraction of the price. Obviously you need to refit it differently as its not designed for the starter attachment but its not that difficult. Mine didn't need replacing in the end.
4. If it bench tests out ok, all connections are cleaned and you've put in a new battery then you should be good to go.

My engine was def ok and I had fuel

Thanks for everyones input, it really helped to talk it through.

Kev :smile::tractor: