Replace GCV160 with GSV190

[LukeWalker]

I have a Honda mower, model HRR216K9VKA, with the GCV160 engine. It hit a stump and bent the crankshaft, but the deck is fine and the self propel still works. I want to replace the engine with a new one, and bought the GSV190 from Northern Tool to upgrade the durability and the power. But the original engine had a 25mm shaft, while the new engine has a 7/8" shaft, so the original parts don't fit. (I actually got an adapter sleeve from 7/8 to 25mm, but the keyway notch on the original drive pulley is still too big, so that isn't a solution). As far as I can tell, I just need a new drive pulley, blade adapter, and blade (the original blade was a few years old and needing to be replaced anyway). I tried calling my local Honda dealer, but he couldn't look up parts by the engine -- he needed a mower model number. But I haven't been able to find the specs for a Honda mower that has the same size crank as the new one. Below are the specs for the new GSV190.

Any recommendations on what drive pulley and blade adapter would fit? Or anything else I should consider with this swap?

Honda GSV Series Vertical OHC Engine — 187cc, 7/8in. x 3 5/32in. Shaft, Model# GSV190LAN1L​

Shaft Diameter (in.)	7/8
Shaft Length (in.)	3 5/32

Crankshaft	N1 type
Shaft Keyway	3/16
Shaft End Tapped (Diameter (in.)/Threads per inch)	3/8–24
Shaft Rotation (From PTO Shaft Side)	Counterclockwise

 

[ILENGINE]

There may not be parts that you can adapt to your mower at least within Honda. That is the importance of starting with the crankshaft dimensions and then working forward. The New engine wasn't used on any Honda mowers, it is just a generic replacement for most mowers that use the 7/8 crankshaft like Murray, MTD, Husqvarna but even some of those are using 25 mm cranks.

 

[Honda Tech]

The GSV190LAN1L is not a mower engine. It does not have a flywheel brake. It does have a Heavy flywheel. It is intended for applications without a blade. eg. Pressure Washers, Vacuums, Log Splitters, etc.

The correct replacement engine is a Honda GCV160A0MY1. Most likely will need to be special ordered from Honda. Too use any other engine would just give you headaches in trying to adapt everything.

 

[LukeWalker]

There may not be parts that you can adapt to your mower at least within Honda. That is the importance of starting with the crankshaft dimensions and then working forward. The New engine wasn't used on any Honda mowers, it is just a generic replacement for most mowers that use the 7/8 crankshaft like Murray, MTD, Husqvarna but even some of those are using 25 mm cranks.

I'm not opposed to using non-Honda parts. Would these work, or just create a different set of problems?
TB Woods AK2578 Pully
Arnold Keyed Blade Adapter kit (748-0376C)

The GSV190LAN1L is not a mower engine. It does not have a flywheel brake. It does have a Heavy flywheel. It is intended for applications without a blade. eg. Pressure Washers, Vacuums, Log Splitters, etc.

The correct replacement engine is a Honda GCV160A0MY1. Most likely will need to be special ordered from Honda. Too use any other engine would just give you headaches in trying to adapt everything.

Thanks for the quick reply on this. The Northern Tool site, and a number of reviews on there, describe it as an engine that can be used in mowers. Is there a danger in using it here, since I already have the engine in hand? Or is that a bad idea because of the risk of dead stops damaging the crankshaft? Northern Tool won't take the return, so if I can find a use for (or a recommendation on how to sell) this one, that would be ideal.

If the GSV190 isn't an option, is there another engine that I could use instead of replacing the broken one with the exact same one? e.g., a GSV or GXV? The original GCV160 engine lasted only about two years, so if I can spend a bit more on the replacement and get one that will last longer, I'd be happy to do it. But I've obviously already run into the headaches involved in adapting to a different engine, so maybe it's not worth it.

 

[Honda Tech]

Hi Luke, my apologies, but I'm not a backyard mechanic and will not modify equipment when safety is a concern. As for the engine, I strongly encourage using the exact replacement or just repair your existing engine. The crankshaft is relatively inexpensive. That and a new oil seal are probably all you need. If you wouldn't have hit a stump, it would still be running. I have over 10 years on mine and besides the bi-annual tune-up I give it, I have only had to replace the carburetor after 10 seasons when it started to weep while sitting.

Your engine has a flywheel brake, so it will stop within 3 seconds after releasing the brake lever. The ignition switch is also implemented with the brake. The GSV190 does not have a flywheel brake nor could one be added. Just so you know, the crankshaft is no stronger...it will still bend on impact.

The GSV190LAN1L is standard on some BillyGoat brand yard vacuums. Because the control bracket is for remote operation, I will typically change the control bracket out to the manual control bracket found on the GCV160LA0N1A or to the fixed throttle bracket found on the GCV160LA0G5B and then use the engine on log splitters and pressure washers. I'm sure there are other applications out there, but those seem to be the most common applications that I come across.

FYI - It takes multiple parts to convert the control brackets, but it can be done and still have a safe operating engine.

 

[Scrubcadet10]

25MM shaft engines length is 3 5/32"

Mounting: Vertical, Shaft Size: 25mmDx3~5-SLASH-32%2522L

www.smallenginewarehouse.com

 

[Eddie S]

Luke, I agree with the above recommendations. I also rescue mowers & outdoor power equipment from alleys, trash bins, etc., and combine the good parts to make working mowers for family, friends, and such. It's fun. But, there are parts compatibility concerns between makers. Some of the main manufacturers, like AYP/HOP, MTD, Toro, Honda, and others, might use a similar engine with a 25mm (or 7/8") x 3-5/32" shaft, they don't all use the same dimension blade adapters. Take a Toro 22", pull off the engine, blade adapter and Atomic blade, and stick it all on an AYP/HOP or MTD 22" deck. The blade tips will extend BELOW the lower deck lip. VERY dangerous. Toro (and Honda) have a greater engine mount to lower deck lip distance, and the blade adapters (and blades) make up for that. So, in reverse, take an MTD-made Craftsman 22" (or an AYP/HOP-made Craftsman), put the whole engine, adapter and blade setup on a Toro. The blade tips will be further up into the deck than it's designed for, making for poor performance. You have to have the right spec'd engine, adapter and blade for your application.

And just as the Honda Tech stated, the engine you have is NOT designed for mower applications WITHOUT a Roto-Stop or BBC (blade brake control) system. The heavy flywheel is meant to provide the rotational weight the blades usually provide, and it lacks a grab-bar activated ignition cutoff as well, which is activated by the flywheel brake control when the proximity grab bar is released. And I'm sure you were already familiar with this info. One of my extra mowers is a GCV160 with a BBC system (heavy flywheel). IF the BBC system froze or broke, I'll probably take one of my junked GCV160s and see if the lightweight flywheel and control components fit onto it (including cable and proximity bar), pair it up with an appropriate blade and blade adapter, and see how it goes. If it didn't match up perfectly, I'd get a new BBC system, if I thought the engine had enough life in it. I have boxes full of engine parts, and not all Honda engines (GCV/GSV 160/190) are compatible with all year parts. They evolve often.

But, if my HRC216PDA's crankshaft (GSV160) ever got bent, I'd likely replace it rather than straighten it. Not a big deal. I've got the service manuals, as they're available on eBay directly from Honda. If my GSV160 is ever beyond repair, I'll go to my Honda dealer for a whole replacement engine, as you won't find one anywhere else. Would a GCV160 suffice? Yes, they're great engines, and since I have several of them, I could easily stick one on, but I love my HRC216PDA enough to keep it 100% OEM. And that's the only reason. I LOVE that mower. But, if Honda no longer made the GSV160, and if I didn't have a replacement GCV160 on hand, I might consider going with a GCV190 simply out of curiosity, but I've never found my GSV160 to be lacking in power, and I don't think that has anything to do with the lined cylinder wall or extra bearing. Those are harsh condition longevity benefits. A well cared for GCV will last long.

Now, if were you, and had that GSV190, I'd go to a good mower shop, and do a trade/partial trade for a compatible engine, or engine work on your GCV160. I wouldn't mess with altering a perfectly good engine to make it into something it was never intended to be.

Hope this helps.