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I have a Husky YTH21K46 with the famous Kohler Courage "Kamikaze" 597cc 21 hp engine. I am thinking it is coming to the end of it's service life, and wondering if there is a Briggs direct replacement engine that is available. I suppose it could be rebuilt or even purchase another one, but I don't have a high degree of confidence in this Chinese engine design.

I've never owned a "Kroller" before. I've seen a lot of people complaining about them though. Are they really that bad?

What is wrong with yours?

slomo

It is easy for the engineering pig ignorant to find faults in a design when they have a zero understanding of the materials & engineering that has gone into the manufacture of it .
Then there are those who seem to think that factories are magic places where new technology will deliver engines made from pixie dust for free .
The basic design was good apart from what appears to be last minute decision to swap from a forged crank ( very expensive ) to a cast crank ( cheapest possible ) .
To get the same strength the whole thing needed to be a lot bigger so it was a lot heavier and this threw all of the vibration harmonics out of specification .
Thus some of them loosened top plate bolts & cracked .
Apart from that there is no reliability difference between the Courage & any other mower engine in fact they have substantially fewer failures that the B & S singles of the same size .
However they are much much much easier to repair than any other engine because of the bucket design ( apart for the afore mentioned crack ) .
And I think you will find the design originated in the USA
When the Kohler factory in China tooled up to make the engine, they corrected the known fault and the Chinese made Courages give no problems what so ever.
We get a lot of Husqvarna look alikes down here that are made in China fitted with Chinese made Courage singles and they are absolutely fine , apart from the fact the steel is very thin so they crack & twist all over the place but the engines are great .

All of the rubbish I see on the web about how bad the Courage engine is is tosh and usually comes from bad maintenance , as signified by the non existant problem sealing the rocker cover .
It has a cork gasket so it gets done up a lot looser than a gasket made from jointing sheet.
Ask any vintage vehicle owner about cork gaskets.
Finger tight + 1/2 turn so the springness in the cork can make a seal
Do them up tighter than a head bolt and you chop up the gasket causing the steel pressing to come into contact with the alloy head and thus leak .
Any one over 60 will remember the problem of overtightened cork gaskets on the rocker housings on their cars.
Admittedly Kohler could have used Neoprene cork in place of plain cork, but that is better than twice the price and mower engines are the cheapest engines possible to make.

Instead of ranting, why do the experts not directly answer the question?
I have the opposite question. Will a Kohler replace my bad Briggs 17.5 Intek?
Crankshaft diameter for pulley, bolt to frame pattern, are they different?
I have a riding mower I don't like with a good Kohler, a mower I like with a bad Briggs.
I'd rather not take them both apart to find out as I'd then have no working mower at all.

Vntg-Gearhead said:

Instead of ranting, why do the experts not directly answer the question?
I have the opposite question. Will a Kohler replace my bad Briggs 17.5 Intek?
Crankshaft diameter for pulley, bolt to frame pattern, are they different?
I have a riding mower I don't like with a good Kohler, a mower I like with a bad Briggs.
I'd rather not take them both apart to find out as I'd then have no working mower at all.

Click to expand...

If you are replacing an engine with a different engine, there are three primary concerns. 1) Is the crankshaft the correct diameter and length. 2) Will the wiring connect relatively easily, or will it require cutting, soldering, and shrink tubing. 3) Will the engine mounting bolts line up and Will the new engine physically fit under the hood correctly. This takes research on your part online to find out these questions.

Exactly. I was just wondering if someone knew of the crank differences if any & bolt pattern. Engine room under hood isn't an issue. 17.5 Briggs verses 18 HP Kohler. Plug & play wiring is not expected & not a problem for me to solder as needed. I know the electrics. I want to rid myself of the failure prone (knocking bad) Briggs Intek with the better Kohler. Of course I'd need to use the Briggs pulley on the Kohler to keep engine to mower ratio the same (I've been down that road before) . I'm guessing no one done this upgrade.

Well to know the difference we need to know what the engines are and what mower they are going into .
I can not see , touch, feel or even smell your engine or mowers from here .
It is a strange mentality that thinks if they lash out at the people they want FREE help from then those people would want to provide FREE help to them
Then you post a vague question without anywhere near enough information to give you an accurate answer .
So as you can not be bothered to provide specific details I will give a general answer
1) Check what engine options were available when new
IF a Kohler the same as the unknown Kohler model you are looking at was offered as an optional engine from new then it will drop in & bolt up but require some rewiring.
Most Kohler single cylinder engines used a piggyback solenoid fitted to the side of the engine which only you can see as you did not bother to even provide a photo
Most B & S engines use a remote solenoid .
If the battery in the mystery mower is fitted at the back you will need a new power cable because yours will not reach
If the battery in the mystery mower is fitted behind the dash then the battery cables usually will fit
The 2 engines use different plugs and different coloured wires in the engine to mower plug
The Kohler will have 1 more wire than the B & S because it has a trigger wire for the solenoid mounted on the engine.
SO the trigger wire on the mower will need to be extended to reach the Kohler starter on the mystery engine fitted to the mystery mower .
Otherwise the plug will have a kill wire & a power return wire from the alternator
If both the mystery engines have carb solenoids then there will be one of them as well
Now the mystery intek engine could have any one of 4 different alternator / regulator set ups
As such we can not tell you if the Kohler will plug in .
Then there is the lights.'
If the mystery mower is a cheapie then it could have AC lights via a duel circuit alternator or DC lights but as you are too bone lazy to tell us what mower you are playing with we have no idea

Big enough rant your you sunshine ?

Again, (without going into my back ground) electrics IS NOT an issue for ME. The solinoid your referring to on the carb, I always remove them as I never turn mower off at anything other than throttle full down. My background also does not limit my fabrication skills. To my knowledge, a vertical crank 17.5 B&S Intek is a B&S Intek. Same goes for the Kohler of the same era. AGAIN forget the 101 basic electrics. Yea, I know everyone in all facets of mechanical sales or repair can not do anything without model & serial numbers, even when I give them the part number. It's in their training to think inside the box the factory limits them to. I'll just drop this post & make a difficult trip to someone I know who will have several of both types of engines & do the measuring myself. Amazed no one here has been down this road. I will assume I'm in uncharted territory with this group & drop the topic..

Vntg-Gearhead said:

Again, (without going into my back ground) electrics IS NOT an issue for ME. The solinoid (solenoid) your referring to on the carb, I always remove them as I never turn mower off at anything other than throttle full down. My background also does not limit my fabrication skills. To my knowledge, a vertical crank 17.5 B&S Intek is a B&S Intek. Same goes for the Kohler of the same era. AGAIN forget the 101 basic electrics. Yea, I know everyone in all facets of mechanical sales or repair can not do anything without model & serial numbers, even when I give them the part number. It's in their training to think inside the box the factory limits them to. I'll just drop this post & make a difficult trip to someone I know who will have several of both types of engines & do the measuring myself. Amazed no one here has been down this road. I will assume I'm in uncharted territory with this group & drop the topic..

Click to expand...

Look for us that do engine swaps we still need to compare the specs. Crankshaft PTO specs are different for different engines specs even within the same HP ratings. Even when you change a Chevy 350 lockup transmission to either 200R4 or 700R4 there lengths to be considered along electrical mods.

First I seldom swap out engines as I repair most, beside when it come to engine replacements here most customer just opt for a new mower leaving me with a pile of junk to get rid of. I use to fix up mowers for resale but the area I am in just want to pay only yard sales prices no matter much has done to the mower so I quit trying and just part them out whenever I can.

Changing from one OEM to another when it comes to lawnmower engines can be simple to harder. A lot times you got have different mufflers and then there is physical fitment issues other mounting bolt patterns. Otherwords we got what you are replacing and what you are considering beyond just hp ratings. With the Briggs 15.5hp thru 21 hp Intek the mounting patterns are the same. But the larger HP rated one takes up over room. On the replacing a 16.5 hp with 21 hp, I once was able to remove the engine's shroud without taking anything else off but now the fuel tank has to come out to get the shroud off.

I also seen a comment about Kohler Courage being a junk engine. Kohler has resolved the initial problems with that engine series.

I learned the hard way about PTO specs when swapping out an 18 HP Briggs single for a 24 HP v twin. Used orig 18 HP pulley so as to use original size belts. It worked but the v twin doesn't turn the RPMs an 18 single does so speed of drive & blades were reduced. I was warned not to exceed xxx RPM with the v twin as it couldn't take it. The v twin is more of a torque engine. Modified hood looked a little like a 60's Rat Fink car. If it wasn't for the more forward added weight (harder steering), I'd left it in the mower. Later acquired a nice but older red metal shroud 18 HP I/C engine (back when Briggs were good) for it. Regret selling that mower only because of the engine. Now I have a Yardman with horrible ergonomics for me but a good Kohler engine. My Poulan/Craftsman/Husky mower fits me well but the mid grade (partial oil pump feed) Intek has a bad ACR & knocking counter balance (I think). I could build it but a good/tested used Intek 17.5 engine would be more feasible way to go. But, I'd still have a Briggs.

Now you are talking total trash
All mowers run between 3200 & 3700.
It is a standard speed WORLD WIDE same as full sized tractors mostly have a 1750 rpm PTO or a 3600 rpm PTO depending upon the implement .
Most singles will happily do 4500 but a lot will toss the little end around 5000 rpm, done way too many racing mower engines to fall for that red herring.
Twins will usually do closer to 5000 rpm before they toss the rod but engine balance ( or lack of it ) can have you bouncing sideways above 4000 rpm.
So now finally we get some tiny hints .
FWIW I have just swapped a SV 620 with a cracked block to a 44 Vanguard in a YTH21k97
Apart from the wiring I had to make new muffler supports when transferring the B & S muffler to the hole the Kohler muffler went into.

Now that you have finally told us what we needed to know in the first place I originally wrote a detailed response .
However when I reread it and your post I decided that as you are being a total pratt, you can work it out for yourself.
So please carry out your threat and go annoy some one else .
You can carry on as much as you like because as soon as I hit the Post button I will hit the ignore button for you because you are not worth the weight of the electrons used to respond in dirty swamp water .

My $.02...

Most riding mower makers (at least over the past thirty years or so) that use vertical shaft engines punch their frames with enough holes to accommodate a wide array of suitable engines from different sources, with different bolt patterns. It is rare to have to drill new holes. Most of the time, if you're swapping one brand of engine for another, and the overall configuration is similar, and the horsepower ratings are somewhat close, the crankshaft length and diameter will be the same, or near enough. The electrics are almost never a problem, unless you know nothing about the electrics. Many mower makers -- Cub is a good example -- will use engines from Briggs AND Kohler AND Kawasaki on the same basic model. They specify the electrics so they will match in location and configuration from maker to maker, without modifying the tractor electrics.

In my experience with swapping, it seems I have more trouble getting the silly stuff to work. Exhaust systems can be a real PITA. Cosmetic stuff that is formed around one engine may not work with another. I recently picked up an old Cub RZT42 for $100. The factory engine -- a Briggs 17 hp Intek single -- had a gaping hole in the side of it with a severed connecting rod sticking out of it. Of course, that went on the scrap pile, and I had a spare Kohler 23 hp Courage twin that I thought would look mighty cute behind that seat. Factory deck mounting holes were perfect. Crankshaft length and diameter -- check. Electrics, identical interface. But I had fits because the plastic shroud over the gas tank interfered with the dipstick tube. I had to fabricate a choke cable setup. And I made a dual exhaust system using some galvanized plumbing pipe and a pair of cheap biscuit mufflers. Not counting the twin I had just sitting around, I've got less than 200 bucks in my little zero-turn, and it is the envy of the neighborhood! (Everybody loves that dual-exhaust tone!)