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Please help me purchase a new mower to mow 1/2 acre. I have specific requirements.

May 2, 2015#1

A

Alaska_Guy

Hi everyone,

I am a new member here, I have been reading on the forum for a bit but figured I would join and post as I have some special requirements and not sure what to buy. I have a polaris ranger for towing/plowing duties. I am specifically looking for a good mower. I used to own a toro power driven push behind and it bogged down a lot during bagging/mulching. I was not happy with my toro. I have 6 bad discs in my back, i just tore my shoulder and my bicep is out of alignment due to the tear. So I need an electric start. I am leaning towards a ride on mower because if I can't mow due to my injuries I would like the wife to be able to mow.

Here are my requirements.

1. Electric Start
2. Power driven
3. Wont bog down under load/tall grass.
4. Terrain is very flat in front of house 1/4 acre, I have 12 trees in the back yard 1/4 acre, but they are grouped into bunches of 3, so they are easy to mow around. Very slight grade in the back yard. Nothing a regular push behind power mower couldn't climb.
5. Lawn tractor or driven lawn mower with speeds.
6. Mow in reverse, don't want to have to rake due to my injuries. Shoulder should be good after this lawn season.
7. Looking to spend $1000-$2000

I don't have any lawn tractor dealers here so I am stuck to Lowes or Home Depot. I am very mechanically inclined so I can do all maintenance and care.

Appreciate you for reading my post and looking forward to your expert advice for my current situation.

Thanks again!

I also am open to used.

I found this Cadet for sale locally... It's over priced, but if I could get him down to $1000 would it be worth it or go with something new?

riding lawn mower

John Deere EZ Trak 225 Lawn Mower

May 2, 2015#2

S

SeniorCitizen

How are you going to make a lawn tractor mulch ? Next question - How are you going to make a lawn tractor mulch tall grass without bogging down ?

May 2, 2015#3

Ric

SeniorCitizen said:
How are you going to make a lawn tractor mulch ? Next question - How are you going to make a lawn tractor mulch tall grass without bogging down ?

Good questions The LT 1042 he posted isn't going to do what he wants. It would be alright for a basic lawn but I don't think it would meet his special requirements. For the money he is wanting to spend his requirements are going to be hard to meet.

May 2, 2015#4

A

Alaska_Guy

Ok, how about some helpful criticism then? I don't know anything about these larger machines... I know a push mower will mulch, I assumed the riding type would do the same? How about a machine that I can put a bagger/double bagger on instead of mulching....

How would something like this fair?

Ariens A19A42 42 in. 19 HP Briggs & Stratton Automatic Gas Front-Engine Riding Mower-960460061 - The Home Depot

John Deere D110 42 in. 19 HP Hydrostatic Front-Engine Riding Mower-BG20708 - The Home Depot

Shop Husqvarna YTH22V46 V-Twin Hydrostatic 46-in Riding Lawn Mower with Briggs & Stratton Engine and Mulching Capable at Lowes.com

Push Mower - Honda 21 in. Variable Speed Self-Propelled Electric Start Gas Mower-HRX217HZA - The Home Depot

I did find a local John Deere and Kubota dealers.

May 2, 2015#5

Ric

Alaska_Guy said:
Ok, how about some helpful criticism then? I don't know anything about these larger machines... I know a push mower will mulch, I assumed the riding type would do the same? How about a machine that I can put a bagger/double bagger on instead of mulching....

How would something like this fair?

Ariens A19A42 42 in. 19 HP Briggs & Stratton Automatic Gas Front-Engine Riding Mower-960460061 - The Home Depot

John Deere D110 42 in. 19 HP Hydrostatic Front-Engine Riding Mower-BG20708 - The Home Depot

Shop Husqvarna YTH22V46 V-Twin Hydrostatic 46-in Riding Lawn Mower with Briggs & Stratton Engine and Mulching Capable at Lowes.com

Push Mower - Honda 21 in. Variable Speed Self-Propelled Electric Start Gas Mower-HRX217HZA - The Home Depot

I did find a local John Deere and Kubota dealers.

I wasn't trying to criticize but with 6 bad discs in your back and a torn shoulder/bicep the last place I would want to be is on any type of mower. I don't think a lawn tractor will meet your requirements, a garden Tractor maybe. Something like the CC XTI 50 inch cut with the Kohler 25 HP may do what you want and would ride a whole lot better but your talking more money, I think there running between $2600 to $3000 depending on where you buy. I'd also look at the Kubota dealer and see what they offer. I'd stay away from the others.

May 2, 2015#6

A

Alaska_Guy

How about the John Deere EZ Trak 225? I called the guy and he says its basically new, nothing wrong with it and he would take $1500. I looked online and it looks about $600 for a bagger unit and around $100 for a mulching blade setup. This still keeps me around my $2000 budget.

I really just don't know enough about these machines to make an informed decision as to weather this Zero Turn unit would be reliable and do what I want.

Thanks again!

May 2, 2015#7

Ric

Alaska_Guy said:
How about the John Deere EZ Trak 225? I called the guy and he says its basically new, nothing wrong with it and he would take $1500. I looked online and it looks about $600 for a bagger unit and around $100 for a mulching blade setup. This still keeps me around my $2000 budget.

I really just don't know enough about these machines to make an informed decision as to weather this Zero Turn unit would be reliable and do what I want.

Thanks again!

The 225 is a real light weight ZTR. It runs the EZT drives which are the low end drives from Hydro Gear and there not serviceable because there a sealed unit. It's a pretty low quality machine, the frame is 1 1/2 X 2 inch and it has one of the cheaper B&S engines and if your worried about bogging down, bagging and mulching it's not the machine. I think it would end up costing you more than it's worth. As far as any machine being reliable or not depends on the conditions that you'll use the machine under.
I'd look for a ZTR with at least the 2800 drives which are serviceable and a 20hp engine, Kawasaki engine would be my first choice, Kohler my second. Something along the lines of a Toro Titan or maybe a CC Z Force with the Fab deck.

May 2, 2015#8

A

Alaska_Guy

I looked up those cub cadets and they are about twice my current budget. Though they look like good machines I just can't justify the cost. Our mowing season here is "maybe" 6 months, so that means I should get double the life expectancy compared to the lower 48 where you may get 10 months of mowing? From the sounds of it I am not going to get every want on my list for the $2000 I have to spend.

So with that...

Where is my $2000 best spent? If there is a better option for $2000 I am all ears. Providing units that cost more really doesn't help as I can't afford a higher priced unit. I do know the cadet is a 3 year no questions warranty and the dealer here services them. I also have a John Deere shop locally. Considering the new John Deere 235 EZ Trak is $2600, $1500 for a used model with 200 hours sounds like a pretty good deal.

Craftsman Zero Turn - Craftsman mower
John Deere EZ Trak - John Deere EZ Trak 225 Lawn Mower

Cub Cadet with Koehler engine - Cub Cadet XT1 Enduro Series LT 42 in. 18 HP Kohler Hydrostatic Gas Front-Engine Riding Mower-LT42 - The Home Depot

Honda HRX electric start push mower - Honda 21 in. Variable Speed Self-Propelled Electric Start Gas Mower-HRX217HZA - The Home Depot

May 2, 2015#9

Ric

Alaska_Guy said:
I looked up those cub cadets and they are about twice my current budget. Though they look like good machines I just can't justify the cost. Our mowing season here is "maybe" 6 months, so that means I should get double the life expectancy compared to the lower 48 where you may get 10 months of mowing? From the sounds of it I am not going to get every want on my list for the $2000 I have to spend.

So with that...

Where is my $2000 best spent? If there is a better option for $2000 I am all ears. Providing units that cost more really doesn't help as I can't afford a higher priced unit. I do know the cadet is a 3 year no questions warranty and the dealer here services them. I also have a John Deere shop locally. Considering the new John Deere 235 EZ Trak is $2600, $1500 for a used model with 200 hours sounds like a pretty good deal.

Craftsman Zero Turn - Craftsman mower
John Deere EZ Trak - John Deere EZ Trak 225 Lawn Mower

Cub Cadet with Koehler engine - Cub Cadet XT1 Enduro Series LT 42 in. 18 HP Kohler Hydrostatic Gas Front-Engine Riding Mower-LT42 - The Home Depot

Honda HRX electric start push mower - Honda 21 in. Variable Speed Self-Propelled Electric Start Gas Mower-HRX217HZA - The Home Depot

With the mowers you listed the Cub Cadet XT1 would be my first choice, The Honda would be second both would be good mowers. The other two I wouldn't touch because they both run the B&S engines. secondly you don't know how they have been taken care of and you could be buying someone Else's problem.

May 2, 2015#10

A

Alaska_Guy

Ric, thanks!

Here is the yard in question. My only concern with the riding mowers is the distance between the trees. The lady at the dealer suggested the cub cadet as well and said I may need a cheap mower to do small sections, or just get the Honda as you described.

May 3, 2015#11

Ric

Alaska_Guy said:
Ric, thanks!

Here is the yard in question. My only concern with the riding mowers is the distance between the trees. The lady at the dealer suggested the cub cadet as well and said I may need a cheap mower to do small sections, or just get the Honda as you described.

Yeah the Cub Cadet can handle that, as far as the concern for the trees I'd invest in a good Trimmer. The Stihl FS 90 or maybe the FS 70 Stihl

May 3, 2015#12

1

1striper1

SeniorCitizen said:
How are you going to make a lawn tractor mulch ?

You're kidding right?

May 3, 2015#13

1

1striper1

Ric said:
The 225 is a real light weight ZTR. It runs the EZT drives which are the low end drives from Hydro Gear and there not serviceable because there a sealed unit.

From what I read on Hydro-Gears website the fluid on the EZT's CAN be changed.

http://www.hydro-gear.com/Main/docs/service-repair-manuals/ezt-(zt-2100-2200).pdf

May 3, 2015#14

1

1striper1

Alaska Guy - where in AK may I ask? My oldest son is stationed at Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage.

May 3, 2015#15

1

1striper1

Ric said:
I wasn't trying to criticize but with 6 bad discs in your back and a torn shoulder/bicep the last place I would want to be is on any type of mower. I don't think a lawn tractor will meet your requirements, a garden Tractor maybe. Something like the CC XTI 50 inch cut with the Kohler 25 HP may do what you want and would ride a whole lot better but your talking more money, I think there running between $2600 to $3000 depending on where you buy. I'd also look at the Kubota dealer and see what they offer. I'd stay away from the others.

Ric - with all due respect to your experience and being a Mod and such, why won't a lawn tractor do what he needs? We all have our likes and dislikes (my likes are Kawi engines and non-sealed hydro's) but when you're in this price range you have to take the best of what you can get. I've been in sales for going on 30 years and I will never upsell anybody.

May 3, 2015#16

Ric

1striper1 said:
From what I read on Hydro-Gears website the fluid on the EZT's CAN be changed.

http://www.hydro-gear.com/Main/docs/service-repair-manuals/ezt-(zt-2100-2200).pdf

The EZT Transaxle is factory sealed and does not require oil maintenance. says that in the pdf . If something happens to the oil and it needs to be replaced you have to remove the drive system completely from the mower dump the oil out and replace it. Now with that said if the oil is contaminated you really need to find out why and for that you have to take apart the case and find out why and keep in mind that all the seals will need to be replaced. Personally I'm not going through all that when all I have to do is pull an oil filter and drain a unit and replace the filter and refill the unit on the machine.

May 3, 2015#17

Ric

1striper1 said:
Ric - with all due respect to your experience and being a Mod and such, why won't a lawn tractor do what he needs? We all have our likes and dislikes (my likes are Kawi engines and non-sealed hydro's) but when you're in this price range you have to take the best of what you can get. I've been in sales for going on 30 years and I will never upsell anybody.

I said the Cub Cadet XT1 can handle that, as far as the concern for the trees I'd invest in a good Trimmer. The Stihl FS 90 or maybe the FS 70 Stihll. I also said earlier With the mowers you listed the Cub Cadet XT1 would be my first choice, The Honda would be second both would be good mowers.

May 3, 2015#18

1

1striper1

Ric said:
The EZT Transaxle is factory sealed and does not require oil maintenance. says that in the pdf . If something happens to the oil and it needs to be replaced you have to remove the drive system completely from the mower dump the oil out and replace it. Now with that said if the oil is contaminated you really need to find out why and for that you have to take apart the case and find out why and keep in mind that all the seals will need to be replaced. Personally I'm not going through all that when all I have to do is pull an oil filter and drain a unit and replace the filter and refill the unit on the machine.

C'mon Rick....be a better adviser to us homeowners and stop posting only what you think is important. Look at the Index in the PDF then go to page 11 and read the instructions for changing the fluid. How many hours is he going to put on the ZTR per year....15? At least one can change the hydro oil every 3-4 years and keep it fresh. Without looking at the specs for the lawn tractors he's listed, I'd bet the only way you can change the hydro fluid is by physically removing the tranny and that is not something most folks want to do.

May 3, 2015#19

1

1striper1

Ric said:
I said the Cub Cadet XT1 can handle that, as far as the concern for the trees I'd invest in a good Trimmer. The Stihl FS 90 or maybe the FS 70 Stihll. I also said earlier With the mowers you listed the Cub Cadet XT1 would be my first choice, The Honda would be second both would be good mowers.

Yes the Cub Cadet fits the bill as well as a good lighweight trimmer. Is there a V-twin Kohler (I know you like Kohler's) on any of these that doesn't have a 50" deck. IMO...I'll take a 19hp Twin over a 19 hp single any day of the week plus the 8th day King Obama wants to add to help pay for his social programs.

May 3, 2015#20

Ric

1striper1 said:
C'mon Rick....be a better adviser to us homeowners and stop posting only what you think is important. Look at the Index in the PDF then go to page 11 and read the instructions for changing the fluid. How many hours is he going to put on the ZTR per year....15? At least one can change the hydro oil every 3-4 years and keep it fresh. Without looking at the specs for the lawn tractors he's listed, I'd bet the only way you can change the hydro fluid is by physically removing the tranny and that is not something most folks want to do.

Hours have nothing to do with it, Hydro Gear themselves in there pdf Page 11 say:

The EZT Transaxle is a sealed unit and does not require oil maintenance. However, in the event of oil contamination or degradation, oil addition or change may alleviate certain performance problems.
1. Remove the transaxle from the vehicle.
noTe: if removing the wheel from the
transaxle, do so by removing the four (4)
lug nuts. do not remove the axle/hub nut.
2. Clean the oil fill port area of any debris.
3. Remove the oil fill port fitting.
4. Position the transaxle so the oil will drain
completely out of the housing.
5. Fill the transaxle at the oil fill port according
to Figure 4.
6. Install the oil fill port fitting.
7. Purging will be required. Refer to the purging
procedures on Page 12.
8. Recheck the fluid level once the unit has
been operated for approximately 1 minute.

As far as the 50" deck goes the op posted a link for the XT1 42" with the 18hp Kohler and that's what I commented on and it's probably enough for what he needs.

May 3, 2015#21

1

1striper1

Ric said:
Hours have nothing to do with it, Hydro Gear themselves in there pdf Page 11 say:

The EZT Transaxle is a sealed unit and does not require oil maintenance. However, in the event of oil contamination or degradation, oil addition or change may alleviate certain performance problems.
1. Remove the transaxle from the vehicle.
noTe: if removing the wheel from the
transaxle, do so by removing the four (4)
lug nuts. do not remove the axle/hub nut.
2. Clean the oil fill port area of any debris.
3. Remove the oil fill port fitting.
4. Position the transaxle so the oil will drain
completely out of the housing.
5. Fill the transaxle at the oil fill port according
to Figure 4.
6. Install the oil fill port fitting.
7. Purging will be required. Refer to the purging
procedures on Page 12.
8. Recheck the fluid level once the unit has
been operated for approximately 1 minute.

As far as the 50" deck goes the op posted a link for the XT1 42" with the 18hp Kohler and that's what I commented on and it's probably enough for what he needs.

Hours on a unit have nothing to do with it.

OK Rick...no matter what I post you will have a comeback that puts a spin on things that you want to see. But that's how you operate on this board.

Enjoy your day inside on your PC. :drink:

May 3, 2015#22

Ric

1striper1 said:
Hours on a unit have nothing to do with it.

OK Rick...no matter what I post you will have a comeback that puts a spin on things that you want to see. But that's how you operate on this board.

Enjoy your day inside on your PC. :drink:

I guess on that unit hours don't make any difference when the company themselves say there a sealed unit and don't require oil maintenance. I posted page 11 off your PDF for you and it explains it with 8 steps, it's not my spin as you say it's what the company says. Sorry but I don't drink

May 3, 2015#23

Carscw

You do not have to remove a EZT drive from the mower to change the oil.
It's called a oil pump.

May 3, 2015#24

B

bertsmobile1

Ric said:
The EZT Transaxle is factory sealed and does not require oil maintenance. says that in the pdf . If something happens to the oil and it needs to be replaced you have to remove the drive system completely from the mower dump the oil out and replace it. Now with that said if the oil is contaminated you really need to find out why and for that you have to take apart the case and find out why and keep in mind that all the seals will need to be replaced. Personally I'm not going through all that when all I have to do is pull an oil filter and drain a unit and replace the filter and refill the unit on the machine.

Reality check.
1/2 acre. 1 hour a week for about 20 weeks a year, 1 hour a fortnight for 10 more weeks.
It ain't going to kill the hydros being used exactly as they were designed for being used.
You kill them when you try to make a lightweight domestic 40hrs/year mower go commercial & do 40 hrs a week.

Having said that I have a commercial customer with a JD 225 who does a lot of residentials and the only problem he has ever had was the deck hanger tearing away at the weld which is not uncommon for this deck and the deck lift also fractured but now he is a lot more aware of the effect of running blunt unbalanced there have been no more problems.

May 3, 2015#25

Carscw

My EZT drives had over 2000 hard hours on them
Before I put a conversion kit in them.
Never had any trouble with them.
Like most things with a mower they are there so you can say they are.

May 4, 2015#26

A

Alaska_Guy

So the consensus is that I get the cub cadet for my price point?

I am very mechanically inclined, I have a welder, a bunch of tools etc in case the thing breaks down. I have rebuilt many an engine before. I am more worried about getting a decent unit with a good engine as I imagine that is the most expensive part to fail?

This is going to be used specifically once a week or maybe once every 2 weeks to mow. I only have 5 months of mowing, so that equates to 30-45 hours a year for my sized yard? It will be stored in doors and well maintained. I don't mind getting the honda with the electric start as it is cheaper and on the higher end of the scale for a push mower... I just want to make sure I am spending my money wisely is all.

Thanks again for all the input fellas.

Oh, I am in Chugiak if that helps.

A Toro Z4200 just came available locally, he wants $1600 for the ZT, he says it has about 200 hours.

May 4, 2015#27

B

bertsmobile1

Carscw said:
My EZT drives had over 2000 hard hours on them
Before I put a conversion kit in them.
Never had any trouble with them.
Like most things with a mower they are there so you can say they are.

And there is is 2000 hours = 20 years of domestic use.
More than good enough regardless of weather you can service them or not.

May 5, 2015#28

1

1striper1

Alaska_Guy said:
So the consensus is that I get the cub cadet for my price point?

I am very mechanically inclined, I have a welder, a bunch of tools etc in case the thing breaks down. I have rebuilt many an engine before. I am more worried about getting a decent unit with a good engine as I imagine that is the most expensive part to fail?

This is going to be used specifically once a week or maybe once every 2 weeks to mow. I only have 5 months of mowing, so that equates to 30-45 hours a year for my sized yard? It will be stored in doors and well maintained. I don't mind getting the honda with the electric start as it is cheaper and on the higher end of the scale for a push mower... I just want to make sure I am spending my money wisely is all.

Thanks again for all the input fellas.

Oh, I am in Chugiak if that helps.

A Toro Z4200 just came available locally, he wants $1600 for the ZT, he says it has about 200 hours.

Yes with the twin cylinder Kohler.....if you go the garden tractor route.

You're not to far from my son. I'll tell him to wave as he flies over Chugiak.

May 5, 2015#29

A

Alaska_Guy

Thanks fellas. A buddy of mine came across an old Cub Cadet 2166 that he said is 100% servicable and the guy is asking a very fair price. The unit has only 1.5 hours as it was stored all its life. So I am going to go look at it tonight and if it checks out I will be purchasing it.

May 6, 2015#30

A

Alaska_Guy

Well, I am super excited to say the least. This thing is near mint condition, almost museum quality! My buddy owns a 3000 series cub cadet with all the attachments and his tractor is in pretty good condition, but this unit was show room quality. The knobs on the tires were even still there, all the factory stickers, original mower blades still had paint on them, oil looked brand new, air filter, etc etc etc. This was a real find!

I walked away with the 2000 Series tractor for $630! My buddy told me as soon as we left that he would buy it off of me because he wanted a smaller tractor for his lawn. I told him I would let him keep it over night but that was it. Haha! I couldn't be happier. The thing looks like it rolled off the factory floor except for a small dent in the front grille , but no paint removed from the front grill area. I am hoping I can bend it back in place and make it look new. This is a shaft drive unit, everything is serviceable, the deck must have weighed 100lbs.

After looking at the new units made today and this unit, I could tell a night and day difference. One of my best purchases to date.

May 6, 2015#31

B

bertsmobile1

Congratulations with your sledge hammer enjoy cracking the walnuts with it.
Seeing that you got it so cheap, go out and buy a complete set of spindle housings NOW.
they were discontinued last year and are NLA at most mower shops on line including the 3 specialist Cub Cadet only sites.
There are a stack of them on evilbay right now heavily discounted so I am guessing that MTD auction them off with other superseded obsolete parts.
When they are gone there is nothing else that can be made to fit those decks.
I bought 10 to keep in stock as I have a lot of 2100 series Cubs in my customer list.

Apart from that the only other impossible to get unique part is the tail shaft coupling.
On your yard, if maintained properly your great grand kids should have a whale of a time with it because it should last that long.
Always throttle down before you engage the blades as the PTO has a tendency to give troubles if abused and the mechanical fuel pump has a bad habit of filling the sump with petrol when the diaphragm packs it in . So check the oil EVERY time you go to use the mower without fail.
Usually the diaphragm wil start leaking for a while befors dumping the entire fuel tank into the sump.

On the subject of fuel tanks, keep an eye on the fuel outlet.
A lot are not as open as they could be and couples with that huge filler cap gets a fair bit of crud in there which blocks off the fuel supply an hour or so into mowing.
For best result only use genuine Cub belts, they are 21/32" so not a standard size and standard section belts just won't cut the mustard.

May 6, 2015#32

Ric

Alaska_Guy said:
Well, I am super excited to say the least. This thing is near mint condition, almost museum quality! My buddy owns a 3000 series cub cadet with all the attachments and his tractor is in pretty good condition, but this unit was show room quality. The knobs on the tires were even still there, all the factory stickers, original mower blades still had paint on them, oil looked brand new, air filter, etc etc etc. This was a real find!

I walked away with the 2000 Series tractor for $630! My buddy told me as soon as we left that he would buy it off of me because he wanted a smaller tractor for his lawn. I told him I would let him keep it over night but that was it. Haha! I couldn't be happier. The thing looks like it rolled off the factory floor except for a small dent in the front grille , but no paint removed from the front grill area. I am hoping I can bend it back in place and make it look new. This is a shaft drive unit, everything is serviceable, the deck must have weighed 100lbs.

After looking at the new units made today and this unit, I could tell a night and day difference. One of my best purchases to date.

That's a pretty good deal if you purchased the 2166 for $630, what year and Check out some of these prices

http://www.tractorhouse.com/list/li...T&ETID=1&Mdltxt=2166&MdlX=Contains&notfound=1

May 6, 2015#33

A

Alaska_Guy

Thanks, Not exactly sure on the year. The owner said they thought it was a 2003 model, but wasn't sure. I doesn't have a bagger attachement (yet). :wink: But otherwise is in great shape. I plan on cleaning up all the electrical connections tonight as it has been stored in a shed for over 10 years and needs some maintenance. I purchased a new battery today and figured I would use dielectric grease on all connections and just normal maintenance items before I decide to take it for a test run. The tank is bone dry, so I need to put in new gas, clean the carb system etc.

Will post back when I get it all put back together and fired up.

Appreciate the advice here, thanks again.

May 6, 2015#34

B

bertsmobile1

If te tank is one dry then pull off the fuel cap & a fule line and give it a good long blow out with compressed air to clean out all the crud.
Get a mirror and a strong torch and have a really good look inside now while it is empty.

May 6, 2015#35

1

1striper1

bertsmobile1 said:
Congratulations with your sledge hammer enjoy cracking the walnuts with it.
Seeing that you got it so cheap, go out and buy a complete set of spindle housings NOW.
they were discontinued last year and are NLA at most mower shops on line including the 3 specialist Cub Cadet only sites.
There are a stack of them on evilbay right now heavily discounted so I am guessing that MTD auction them off with other superseded obsolete parts.
When they are gone there is nothing else that can be made to fit those decks.
I bought 10 to keep in stock as I have a lot of 2100 series Cubs in my customer list.

Apart from that the only other impossible to get unique part is the tail shaft coupling.
On your yard, if maintained properly your great grand kids should have a whale of a time with it because it should last that long.
Always throttle down before you engage the blades as the PTO has a tendency to give troubles if abused and the mechanical fuel pump has a bad habit of filling the sump with petrol when the diaphragm packs it in . So check the oil EVERY time you go to use the mower without fail.
Usually the diaphragm wil start leaking for a while befors dumping the entire fuel tank into the sump.

On the subject of fuel tanks, keep an eye on the fuel outlet.
A lot are not as open as they could be and couples with that huge filler cap gets a fair bit of crud in there which blocks off the fuel supply an hour or so into mowing.
For best result only use genuine Cub belts, they are 21/32" so not a standard size and standard section belts just won't cut the mustard.

Bert - the guy paid USD630 for it. If something pukes after a few years so what? He'll be able to find spindles for it on US eBay for years.

Go rain on somebody else's parade.:thumbdown:

May 6, 2015#36

1

1striper1

Alaska Guy - go to the Home Depot in Anchorage and look for this:

Mechanic in a Bottle 4 oz. Synthetic Fuel Additive-2-004-1 - The Home Depot

Mix it in with a gallon of gas. Run your engine for 30 minutes then let it sit for two days. After two days, start it up and run it till it gets nice and hot.

I'm not a snake oil kinda guy but this stuff works. Use it to clean out the fuel system on that "new to you" lawn tractor.

Get some Mobil 1 grease and keep everything nice and lubed up.

May 6, 2015#37

B

bertsmobile1

1striper1 said:
Bert - the guy paid USD630 for it. If something pukes after a few years so what? He'll be able to find spindles for it on US eBay for years.

Go rain on somebody else's parade.:thumbdown:

So you are going to give him one of your mowers when he can't find parts for his Cub ?
Rain on the parade ? You better check your medication .
He had a budget of $2000- $3000 to spend so some thoughtful advice on using some of the remaining $ 2350 allocation to ensure he can keep it going for many year to come is hardly "Raining on a parade".
It was prudent advice to the long term benefit of the OP and if you care to read the whole post you will see it was quite positive and supportive.

I like the 2100 series Cubs, if your memory is actually functioning ( which is looking dubious ) you should have noticed that I oft suggest a poster look out for used one as they are excellent and way under rated mowers that I have a lot of respect for and one of the very few that use a horizontal engine so can handle big hills without killing the engine from oil starvation.
However the blanket grose & general assertion that "They will be available on ebay for many years " is a pile of puss.
The part has not been made for the last 5 years and has been deleted from MTD's parts inventory so the only ones left are the ones that are out there now and they are not going to become more plentiful as time goes buy and good old USA Capitalism dictates as they get scarcer the price will skyrocket,'
Complete decks for 2100's are in short supply already. If your memory goes back over a month or so there were two people on this very list looking for them.

I did not spend $ 1400 buying in a supply because I like to piss money up the wall I did it because I am a professional who knows just how hard obsolete parts can be to get, I restore vintage & classic mortorcycles as well.
If you go to the effort of checking out the people who are flogging them off on evilbay right now you will note that they are all dead stock specialist , the people who buy remaindered stock at a discouunt and shift it as fast as possible to make as much short term profit as possible from shifting "dead stock" so once they are sold out, that will be it.
I seriously doubt that there will be many retail shops who want to hold $ 100 spindles for obsolete decks for 20 years as a public service.

Down here the two Cub specialist do not carry any in stock & my customer was told NLA then offered a "good trade in" on a new Cub.
The MTD warehouse also does not carry any stock and they told my customer it was NLA and suggested they buy a new mower as well as the entire stock of parts for this mower had not been made for the last 5 years and will not be made in the future. This is how this person became another customer with a 2100 series Cub as they happened to see one of my regular customers with 2 Cubs mowing their orchard and pulled over to see where they get their parts from.

May 6, 2015#38

1

1striper1

bertsmobile1 said:
So you are going to give him one of your mowers when he can't find parts for his Cub ?
Rain on the parade ? You better check your medication .
He had a budget of $2000- $3000 to spend so some thoughtful advice on using some of the remaining $ 2350 allocation to ensure he can keep it going for many year to come is hardly "Raining on a parade".
It was prudent advice to the long term benefit of the OP and if you care to read the whole post you will see it was quite positive and supportive.

I like the 2100 series Cubs, if your memory is actually functioning ( which is looking dubious ) you should have noticed that I oft suggest a poster look out for used one as they are excellent and way under rated mowers that I have a lot of respect for and one of the very few that use a horizontal engine so can handle big hills without killing the engine from oil starvation.
However the blanket grose & general assertion that "They will be available on ebay for many years " is a pile of puss.
The part has not been made for the last 5 years and has been deleted from MTD's parts inventory so the only ones left are the ones that are out there now and they are not going to become more plentiful as time goes buy and good old USA Capitalism dictates as they get scarcer the price will skyrocket,'
Complete decks for 2100's are in short supply already. If your memory goes back over a month or so there were two people on this very list looking for them.

I did not spend $ 1400 buying in a supply because I like to piss money up the wall I did it because I am a professional who knows just how hard obsolete parts can be to get, I restore vintage & classic mortorcycles as well.
If you go to the effort of checking out the people who are flogging them off on evilbay right now you will note that they are all dead stock specialist , the people who buy remaindered stock at a discouunt and shift it as fast as possible to make as much short term profit as possible from shifting "dead stock" so once they are sold out, that will be it.
I seriously doubt that there will be many retail shops who want to hold $ 100 spindles for obsolete decks for 20 years as a public service.

Down here the two Cub specialist do not carry any in stock & my customer was told NLA then offered a "good trade in" on a new Cub.
The MTD warehouse also does not carry any stock and they told my customer it was NLA and suggested they buy a new mower as well as the entire stock of parts for this mower had not been made for the last 5 years and will not be made in the future. This is how this person became another customer with a 2100 series Cub as they happened to see one of my regular customers with 2 Cubs mowing their orchard and pulled over to see where they get their parts from.

Getting a wee bit personal there Aussie? No meds here....may YOU need them with all the X's and O's you waste here.

I have a feeling that you're some old dude in a wheelchair who USED to deal with lawn mowers, but your crumbled body and mind are only good for typing sheet on the WWW now.

He'll have no problem finding parts. Unlike where you reside, we live in a BIG country where you can find just about anything.

Type away......you're good at it.

May 6, 2015#39

S

Shughes717

bertsmobile1 said:
And there is is 2000 hours = 20 years of domestic use.
More than good enough regardless of weather you can service them or not.

bertsmobile1 said:
So you are going to give him one of your mowers when he can't find parts for his Cub ?
Rain on the parade ? You better check your medication .
He had a budget of $2000- $3000 to spend so some thoughtful advice on using some of the remaining $ 2350 allocation to ensure he can keep it going for many year to come is hardly "Raining on a parade".
It was prudent advice to the long term benefit of the OP and if you care to read the whole post you will see it was quite positive and supportive.

I like the 2100 series Cubs, if your memory is actually functioning ( which is looking dubious ) you should have noticed that I oft suggest a poster look out for used one as they are excellent and way under rated mowers that I have a lot of respect for and one of the very few that use a horizontal engine so can handle big hills without killing the engine from oil starvation.
However the blanket grose & general assertion that "They will be available on ebay for many years " is a pile of puss.
The part has not been made for the last 5 years and has been deleted from MTD's parts inventory so the only ones left are the ones that are out there now and they are not going to become more plentiful as time goes buy and good old USA Capitalism dictates as they get scarcer the price will skyrocket,'
Complete decks for 2100's are in short supply already. If your memory goes back over a month or so there were two people on this very list looking for them.

I did not spend $ 1400 buying in a supply because I like to piss money up the wall I did it because I am a professional who knows just how hard obsolete parts can be to get, I restore vintage & classic mortorcycles as well.
If you go to the effort of checking out the people who are flogging them off on evilbay right now you will note that they are all dead stock specialist , the people who buy remaindered stock at a discouunt and shift it as fast as possible to make as much short term profit as possible from shifting "dead stock" so once they are sold out, that will be it.
I seriously doubt that there will be many retail shops who want to hold $ 100 spindles for obsolete decks for 20 years as a public service.

Down here the two Cub specialist do not carry any in stock & my customer was told NLA then offered a "good trade in" on a new Cub.
The MTD warehouse also does not carry any stock and they told my customer it was NLA and suggested they buy a new mower as well as the entire stock of parts for this mower had not been made for the last 5 years and will not be made in the future. This is how this person became another customer with a 2100 series Cub as they happened to see one of my regular customers with 2 Cubs mowing their orchard and pulled over to see where they get their parts from.

Apparently there isn't a supply shortage of spindle housings for a 2166 in the U.S.. You can get them on parts tree. What 1striper1 is saying is that even if mower does crap out in 5 years or so and the parts are no longer available the mower only cost $600. That breaks down to a mower cost of $120 a year. I agree with 1striper1 that the parts will be available for several more years. The mower hasn't been made for 10 years and parts are still available. Not everyone has a mower repair shop. It's great that you have the forethought to stock your business with parts so you can repair mowers brought to you, but that is what you do for a living. No need for a homeowner who is only mowing one lawn to stock up on parts. It is such a waste of money. If 6 or 7 years down the road the mower craps out the op can just get another mower. He doesn't have much of an investment in this mower as it is. If he gets 5 years out of that mower it is worth the investment. if he gets 10 years or more out of the mower it will be considered a steal.

May 6, 2015#40

S

Shughes717

1striper1 said:
Getting a wee bit personal there Aussie? No meds here....may YOU need them with all the X's and O's you waste here.

I have a feeling that you're some old dude in a wheelchair who USED to deal with lawn mowers, but your crumbled body and mind are only good for typing sheet on the WWW now.

He'll have no problem finding parts. Unlike where you reside, we live in a BIG country where you can find just about anything.

Type away......you're good at it.

I think it's getting a little too personal. We are here to help others with their mower decisions. It's fun to have a little playful banter every now and then. Ric and I do it all the time, but let's not get angry. Things are different across the world. We have cultural differences, and we should respect those differences. Bertsmobile does have some knowledge. I think he just assumes things in the U.S. are as difficult to come by as they are down under. Btw bertsmobile, I would love to visit your country some day. It's on my bucket list.

May 7, 2015#41

B

bertsmobile1

Always a spare bed.
And yes the USA is a big market, but it also a finite market.
Back in the old days stores used to keep large inventories , local distributors used to keep big inventories and I beneift form that as new caches of BSA parts regularly turn up as old bike shops close down.
However that was before the tripple bottom line accounting came in and when companies were run by managers and not accountants pretending to be managers.
So now days no one has much in the way of stock.
Being an ind駱endant service man I buy a lot of parts from the USA and at first was staggered at what appeared to be available.
However I have now come to realize that there is a big diference between what is actually available and what is on offer.
I order a lot of parts listed as being in stock from a lot of USA dealers only to find 3 months latter that they actually do not exists and Jacks, K &T , Messers etc are simply putting up what their suppliers told them they could get, so those obscure parts that I thought were pentifull because they were on offer from a dozen or more companies actually did not exist and were part of a phantom inventory that once was there but no one bothered to delete when they were all gone.

As the Op had gone to great length to select his mower there was an assumption that he intended to keep his new prize for a long time not toss it out like a disposable razor after the first use simply because he did not pay much for it.
That is of course one of my problems as I buy quality stuff that I maintain & use for a very long time, it is a generational thing.
Object are valued because of their quality & function not because of the price tag.
I could no more toss out a good quality mower just because I got it cheap than waste a bucket of money fixing rubbish that was expensive.

May 7, 2015#42

S

Shughes717

bertsmobile1 said:
Always a spare bed.
And yes the USA is a big market, but it also a finite market.
Back in the old days stores used to keep large inventories , local distributors used to keep big inventories and I beneift form that as new caches of BSA parts regularly turn up as old bike shops close down.
However that was before the tripple bottom line accounting came in and when companies were run by managers and not accountants pretending to be managers.
So now days no one has much in the way of stock.
Being an ind駱endant service man I buy a lot of parts from the USA and at first was staggered at what appeared to be available.
However I have now come to realize that there is a big diference between what is actually available and what is on offer.
I order a lot of parts listed as being in stock from a lot of USA dealers only to find 3 months latter that they actually do not exists and Jacks, K &T , Messers etc are simply putting up what their suppliers told them they could get, so those obscure parts that I thought were pentifull because they were on offer from a dozen or more companies actually did not exist and were part of a phantom inventory that once was there but no one bothered to delete when they were all gone.

As the Op had gone to great length to select his mower there was an assumption that he intended to keep his new prize for a long time not toss it out like a disposable razor after the first use simply because he did not pay much for it.
That is of course one of my problems as I buy quality stuff that I maintain & use for a very long time, it is a generational thing.
Object are valued because of their quality & function not because of the price tag.
I could no more toss out a good quality mower just because I got it cheap than waste a bucket of money fixing rubbish that was expensive.

Bertsmobile, by reading your posts I do believe you have many years of experience with mowers. You must realize though that just because parts may be scarce in your part of the world it doesn't mean it's that way everywhere. I will give you an example. I come from a long line of row crop farmers. I can operate any piece of farm equipment made. International harvester was purchased by case in the 1980s and became case IH. The international 1066 tractor hasn't been made since the 70s and parts haven't been made for them for 30 years, but you can still get parts for that tractor.

Yes the op purchased a 10 to 12 year old mower, however, it has low hours on it. He is also only mowing about an acre or less. Not a lot of stress on a mower like that. If he maintains it properly there shouldn't be too many mechanical issues. If something does come up there should still be parts available in the U.S.. Parts may not be made for that mower anymore, but there also aren't nearly as many of them in operation as there were 10 years ago. Still plenty of supply, but much less of a demand these days. It is a great idea for a businessman such as yourself to stock up on parts. Great way for you to make a profit when someone needs a part for a mower that is no longer made. It just doesn't make sense for a homeowner to go out and stock up on a bunch of parts he/she may never use.

May 7, 2015#43

B

bertsmobile1

Shughes717 said:
Bertsmobile, by reading your posts I do believe you have many years of experience with mowers. You must realize though that just because parts may be scarce in your part of the world it doesn't mean it's that way everywhere. I will give you an example. I come from a long line of row crop farmers. I can operate any piece of farm equipment made. International harvester was purchased by case in the 1980s and became case IH. The international 1066 tractor hasn't been made since the 70s and parts haven't been made for them for 30 years, but you can still get parts for that tractor.

Yes the op purchased a 10 to 12 year old mower, however, it has low hours on it. He is also only mowing about an acre or less. Not a lot of stress on a mower like that. If he maintains it properly there shouldn't be too many mechanical issues. If something does come up there should still be parts available in the U.S.. Parts may not be made for that mower anymore, but there also aren't nearly as many of them in operation as there were 10 years ago. Still plenty of supply, but much less of a demand these days.

I run mowers that were made locally in the 60's and I can buy almost any thing I need . because they were made form simple pieces so can be made if not available at a reasonable price.
The landlord runs a fleet of 500 series Internationl-McCormacks from the 50's & 60's, ( see you and raise you 10 years ) again they are simple machines , parts are simple to make and if not available can be repaired or remade. And they all date from a time when these machinse were expected to run for decades and parts inventories reflected the expected useage of the machines, not the annual profit of the manufacture.

Just because the machine has low hours does not man that the spindle housing are not full of water & corroded nearly through or the DPO has not run over heavy full hard fence wire which has been running around under the spindle housing for so long that they are just about worn through, or the DPO managed to find every big rock in the district & all the spindles are full of cracks

There is a blanket assumption that some one out there is holding stock of obsolete mower parts and these parts will be available whenever the OP should require them and this assumption is totally unreasonable & unrealistic.
Now I am not holding gun to his head & demanding that he buy spindles, it was no more than a prudent suggestion based on information I had and he most likely does not have.
Now I did economics & I know the theory that if you want somethig then some one will supply it, but that is an economic theory not a financial reality.
We are working in the age of minimum inventory & very clever computer controls that can very accurately determine exactly how many of a particular part will be necessary to produce in order to keep a particular piece of equipment running for a fixed amount of time.
Otherwise Cub would be making parts that they can not sell so will have to either keep them for so long the warehousing will cost a lot more than the profit or remainder them at a loss and neither add much to the bottom line.

Now for all I or you, know there could be 10,000 of these spindles sitting in a warehouse but on the other hand the 50 available on evilbay this week might be the very last ones available on the retail market.
Now while the blind faith in the market theory of supply meeting the demand because of the demand,is admirable & the very basis of American society.
I am led to recall the old joke about the bus load of people that drove off the top of the grand canyon.
'While all in the front were panicking and preparing for their ultimat departure the economist in the back was texting to his brokers to buy shares in parachutes becaue he knew that according to the economics of supply & demand by the time the bus got 1/2 way down to the canyon floor the demand for parrachutes on the bus would be at a peak so some one has to meet the demand?…... he died along with all the rest.

May 7, 2015#44

S

Shughes717

bertsmobile1 said:
I run mowers that were made locally in the 60's and I can buy almost any thing I need . because they were made form simple pieces so can be made if not available at a reasonable price.
The landlord runs a fleet of 500 series Internationl-McCormacks from the 50's & 60's, ( see you and raise you 10 years ) again they are simple machines , parts are simple to make and if not available can be repaired or remade. And they all date from a time when these machinse were expected to run for decades and parts inventories reflected the expected useage of the machines, not the annual profit of the manufacture.

Just because the machine has low hours does not man that the spindle housing are not full of water & corroded nearly through or the DPO has not run over heavy full hard fence wire which has been running around under the spindle housing for so long that they are just about worn through, or the DPO managed to find every big rock in the district & all the spindles are full of cracks

There is a blanket assumption that some one out there is holding stock of obsolete mower parts and these parts will be available whenever the OP should require them and this assumption is totally unreasonable & unrealistic.
Now I am not holding gun to his head & demanding that he buy spindles, it was no more than a prudent suggestion based on information I had and he most likely does not have.
Now I did economics & I know the theory that if you want somethig then some one will supply it, but that is an economic theory not a financial reality.
We are working in the age of minimum inventory & very clever computer controls that can very accurately determine exactly how many of a particular part will be necessary to produce in order to keep a particular piece of equipment running for a fixed amount of time.
Otherwise Cub would be making parts that they can not sell so will have to either keep them for so long the warehousing will cost a lot more than the profit or remainder them at a loss and neither add much to the bottom line.

Now for all I or you, know there could be 10,000 of these spindles sitting in a warehouse but on the other hand the 50 available on evilbay this week might be the very last ones available on the retail market.
Now while the blind faith in the market theory of supply meeting the demand because of the demand,is admirable & the very basis of American society.
I am led to recall the old joke about the bus load of people that drove off the top of the grand canyon.
'While all in the front were panicking and preparing for their ultimat departure the economist in the back was texting to his brokers to buy shares in parachutes becaue he knew that according to the economics of supply & demand by the time the bus got 1/2 way down to the canyon floor the demand for parrachutes on the bus would be at a peak so some one has to meet the demand??.. he died along with all the rest.

The fact is the mower hasn't been made for 10 years and parts haven't been made for several years either, but there are still plenty available today. I believe the op advised that the mower had been stored inside. I realize there could be moisture damage to the bearings and spindles. If that it's the case then the parts can be purchased once the bearings fail. No need to stock up on them once it's repaired. You seem to me to be a bit of a dooms day prepper. Not knocking that, but it's not necessary for a homeowner to stock enough parts to build a whole new machine. If a part eventually breaks and there are no more out there then sell the mower to a dealer such as yourself for scrap parts and get another mower.

May 7, 2015#45

A

Alaska_Guy

Looks like my thread has gotten off topic...

I pulled the deck off, checked the spindles, did a thorough check of the whole unit and it is in GREAT shape. The only thing missing was the dispersal shoot where the grass clippings come out. I was able to buy a new one from cub for $50. I was curious what mulching plug would work with this unit. If anyone has any information on that I would appreciate it. I got mixed reviews that the LX1040 mowers mulching plug would work with the 2000 series and thought maybe someone here could confirm or deny.

Thanks for the helpful insight for those of you that have stayed on track. :thumbsup:

A web link on a mulching plug would be great!

May 7, 2015#46

S

Shughes717

Alaska_Guy said:
Looks like my thread has gotten off topic...

I pulled the deck off, checked the spindles, did a thorough check of the whole unit and it is in GREAT shape. The only thing missing was the dispersal shoot where the grass clippings come out. I was able to buy a new one from cub for $50. I was curious what mulching plug would work with this unit. If anyone has any information on that I would appreciate it. I got mixed reviews that the LX1040 mowers mulching plug would work with the 2000 series and thought maybe someone here could confirm or deny.

Thanks for the helpful insight for those of you that have stayed on track. :thumbsup:

A web link on a mulching plug would be great!

Cub Cadet Mulch Plug For 2150 2155 2166 2176 2165
Cub Cadet Mulch Plug For 2150 2155 2166 2176 2165
$21.99 from eBay - oneals-deals
oneals-deals Store Be sure to add me to your favorites list ! This is a brand new genuine Cub Cadet Mulching Kit or Mulch Plug for a all 38 and 42 ...

I googled mulching attachment for cub cadet 2166 and got this eBay add poped up.

May 8, 2015#47

A

Alaska_Guy

Thanks! I went ahead and purchased that mulch plug you listed.

I also wanted to give an update. I went ahead and greased all the zerk fittings, removed the reverse safety switch and mowed my front lawn yesterday. It did a great job and only took me about 15 minutes. A job that would easily have taken half an hour before.

Really appreciate all the assistance and looking forward to many more years of mowing with this unit.

May 8, 2015#48

S

Shughes717

Alaska_Guy said:
Thanks! I went ahead and purchased that mulch plug you listed.

I also wanted to give an update. I went ahead and greased all the zerk fittings, removed the reverse safety switch and mowed my front lawn yesterday. It did a great job and only took me about 15 minutes. A job that would easily have taken half an hour before.

Really appreciate all the assistance and looking forward to many more years of mowing with this unit.

Glad to help. Sorry we hijacked your thread.:ashamed:

May 8, 2015#49

1

1striper1

Shughes717 said:
Glad to help. Sorry we hijacked your thread.:ashamed:

I'm sorry too but I'm not ashamed. I'm so happy for you! The mower engine will barely get HOT in 15 minutes of mowing.

IMO....when you are done mowing and have the unit parked, before you shut off the engine, let it run for a few minutes to cool the engine down. The longer the better.

Are we going to argue about this process now guys? Bert? :laughing:

May 8, 2015#50

S

Shughes717

1striper1 said:
I'm sorry too but I'm not ashamed. I'm so happy for you! The mower engine will barely get HOT in 15 minutes of mowing.

IMO....when you are done mowing and have the unit parked, before you shut off the engine, let it run for a few minutes to cool the engine down. The longer the better.

Are we going to argue about this process now guys? Bert? :laughing:

No arguement from me. I have learned that by allowing my mower to idle for a few minutes before shutoff reduces the chances of backfire. My dealer instructed me to shut it off at full throttle. I have heard several mechanics and others on this site say the same. It just doesn't seem right to me. Here we go again. Sorry Alaska guy :smile:

May 8, 2015#51

A

Alaska_Guy

Shughes717 said:
No arguement from me. I have learned that by allowing my mower to idle for a few minutes before shutoff reduces the chances of backfire. My dealer instructed me to shut it off at full throttle. I have heard several mechanics and others on this site say the same. It just doesn't seem right to me. Here we go again. Sorry Alaska guy :smile:

This would have been great info for me yesterday. I let it idle for a minute or so before shutting off but it still backfired. Lesson learned. I will know what to do today after I am done mowing the back yard.

I also went out and purchased a STIHL 50 CE weed wacker today. I tore my shoulder and this thing should make starting it much easier.

On a side question.....

Would this unit be worth buying for just snowblowing?

Tractor + Snowblower

May 8, 2015#52

Carscw

All mowers are designed to run at full throttle.
The engine stays coolest and cools down faster at full throttle. Letting a engine run at a idle for 5 mins will make it run hot.

Driving a mower that is a hydro drive at less then full throttle will shorting the life of the hydros.

Think about it. The faster the fan turns the more air it moves.

May 8, 2015#53

1

1striper1

Carscw said:
All mowers are designed to run at full throttle.
The engine stays coolest and cools down faster at full throttle. Letting a engine run at a idle for 5 mins will make it run hot.

Driving a mower that is a hydro drive at less then full throttle will shorting the life of the hydros.

Think about it. The faster the fan turns the more air it moves.

Jesus H read what I typed. I said park it, let the engine idle for a few minutes. So the Tecumseh, B&S and Kohler engineers that I know are wrong when they ALL say that shutting down a HOT air cooled engine is the worse thing you can do for it?

I have been following this advice on all of my air cooled engines since the 80's and I wonder why my 95 B&S Vanguard V-Twin has near stock compression. I know...it's an anomaly.

May 8, 2015#54

1

1striper1

Alaska_Guy said:
This would have been great info for me yesterday. I let it idle for a minute or so before shutting off but it still backfired. Lesson learned. I will know what to do today after I am done mowing the back yard.

I also went out and purchased a STIHL 50 CE weed wacker today. I tore my shoulder and this thing should make starting it much easier.

On a side question.....

Would this unit be worth buying for just snowblowing?

Tractor + Snowblower

It's probably worth $500 if you part it out. Heck, for $200 if it runs now you have very little to lose!

If it backfires no matter your idle speed at shutdown, don't worry about. It's a little raw gas getting into the muffler then igniting.

Did you get some Mechanic In A Bottle yet?

Did you go to the airshow at Ted Stevens last weekend? I heard it was great!

May 8, 2015#55

S

Shughes717

Carscw said:
All mowers are designed to run at full throttle.
The engine stays coolest and cools down faster at full throttle. Letting a engine run at a idle for 5 mins will make it run hot.

Driving a mower that is a hydro drive at less then full throttle will shorting the life of the hydros.

Think about it. The faster the fan turns the more air it moves.

The faster the engine runs the more combustion occurs as well which creates more heat. Energy cannot be created without creating heat. The reason the fan runs faster is because the engine is creating more heat at higher speeds and needs more air to prevent the engine from over heating and shutting down. It doesn't mean the engine is running cooler at high rpm. You are a race car guy. Your car runs around the track at a high speed and high rpm. Lots of air coming in. Is the engine cool when you pull into the pits? Farm Tractors are made to run at full throttle as well, but you still have to let them idle to cool before shutting them off (yes I know tractors have Diesel engines, but the same principles apply). I just found that by letting mine idle for a few minutes helps prevent backfire. I do agree that you should only move a hydrostatic mower at full engine throttle though.

May 8, 2015#56

S

Shughes717

Alaska_Guy said:
This would have been great info for me yesterday. I let it idle for a minute or so before shutting off but it still backfired. Lesson learned. I will know what to do today after I am done mowing the back yard.

I also went out and purchased a STIHL 50 CE weed wacker today. I tore my shoulder and this thing should make starting it much easier.

On a side question.....

Would this unit be worth buying for just snowblowing?

Tractor + Snowblower

Where I live I don't have much use for a snow blower, but it looks like someone put a lot of thought into it.

May 8, 2015#57

1

1striper1

Shughes717 said:
Where I live I don't have much use for a snow blower, but it looks like someone put a lot of thought into it.

Where I live we usually get lots of snow. If I could find this setup in my area and could get a year or two out of it, it'd be a steal. These setups in my area are at least $1000 in good running condition.

May 8, 2015#58

A

Alaska_Guy

Well, missed my opportunity. Someone else snagged it!

I didn't make it to the air show. I have lived here over 30 years and I just don't do that kind of stuff anymore. I didn't get the snake oil.... I really don't believe in 99.9% of that stuff.

May 8, 2015#59

B

bertsmobile1

Shughes717 said:
The faster the engine runs the more combustion occurs as well which creates more heat. Energy cannot be created without creating heat. The reason the fan runs faster is because the engine is creating more heat at higher speeds and needs more air to prevent the engine from over heating and shutting down. It doesn't mean the engine is running cooler at high rpm. You are a race car guy. Your car runs around the track at a high speed and high rpm. Lots of air coming in. Is the engine cool when you pull into the pits? Farm Tractors are made to run at full throttle as well, but you still have to let them idle to cool before shutting them off (yes I know tractors have Diesel engines, but the same principles apply). I just found that by letting mine idle for a few minutes helps prevent backfire. I do agree that you should only move a hydrostatic mower at full engine throttle though.

Your logic is both right and wrong.
Yes running at full speed does generate more more heat.
However the rate that the heat is transferred to the engine rather than blown out the exhaust is directly proportional to the time the hot gasses are in contact with the cylinder / head piston & valves.
This heat transfer rate is called the R value, the said same R value that you are used to for rating insulation
And to bring it into focus, aluminium melts at 700 deg C dut your cylinder reaches 1800 deg C why does the piston not melt ? or for that matter the inside of the head ?
So the faster you get the gasses out the less heat will be transferred to the engine.

You have obviously never had much to do with old long stroke vintage engines which will happily sieze at speeds well under 1000 rpm.
It is also one of the reasons why you have more exhaust port than inlet port.

Then there is the volumetric efficiency of the fan, the higer the fan speed the more efficient the fan and the volume of air moved per revolution of the fan actually increases substantially till its viscious limit.

So at higher speeds you are getting more air per BTU and increased cooling efficiency.
Yes there is more heat being generated but it is being transferred to the engine at a decreasing rate and being removed by the air at an increasing rate.
And before some clot makes an idiot extrapolation, no, it won't eventually freeze like all physical matters there is a limit all thermal graphs are curves

And then there is the internal cooling being done by the oil and the volume efficency of the oil transfer system and residual oil to consider.
Running a Vertical shaft engine too slow will reduce the volume of oil at the top bearing because at slower spees the oil drains through the top bearing a lot faster because the gravity forcing the oil doen is not fighting against the centrifugal force trying to fling the oil out onto the bushing wall.

So funny enough the engine companies actually have it right.

And as for some idiot reason people always have to bring in comparisons between things that are totally irrelevant .
Have a good look at the NAS Car videos of drivers comming into the pits.
Do they sit there and idle for 2 minutes before thay shut down or come in at full revs and switch strait off, Do they idle in a high gear to keep to pit lane speed limits so the engine is cooled down better or come in running hard in a low gear ?

And of course all of this is totally irrelevant but resorting to irrevelevance seem to be the norm now days.

May 8, 2015#60

S

Shughes717

bertsmobile1 said:
Your logic is both right and wrong.
Yes running at full speed does generate more more heat.
However the rate that the heat is transferred to the engine rather than blown out the exhaust is directly proportional to the time the hot gasses are in contact with the cylinder / head piston & valves.
This heat transfer rate is called the R value, the said same R value that you are used to for rating insulation
And to bring it into focus, aluminium melts at 700 deg C dut your cylinder reaches 1800 deg C why does the piston not melt ? or for that matter the inside of the head ?
So the faster you get the gasses out the less heat will be transferred to the engine.

You have obviously never had much to do with old long stroke vintage engines which will happily sieze at speeds well under 1000 rpm.
It is also one of the reasons why you have more exhaust port than inlet port.

Then there is the volumetric efficiency of the fan, the higer the fan speed the more efficient the fan and the volume of air moved per revolution of the fan actually increases substantially till its viscious limit.

So at higher speeds you are getting more air per BTU and increased cooling efficiency.
Yes there is more heat being generated but it is being transferred to the engine at a decreasing rate and being removed by the air at an increasing rate.
And before some clot makes an idiot extrapolation, no, it won't eventually freeze like all physical matters there is a limit all thermal graphs are curves

And then there is the internal cooling being done by the oil and the volume efficency of the oil transfer system and residual oil to consider.
Running a Vertical shaft engine too slow will reduce the volume of oil at the top bearing because at slower spees the oil drains through the top bearing a lot faster because the gravity forcing the oil doen is not fighting against the centrifugal force trying to fling the oil out onto the bushing wall.

So funny enough the engine companies actually have it right.

And as for some idiot reason people always have to bring in comparisons between things that are totally irrelevant .
Have a good look at the NAS Car videos of drivers comming into the pits.
Do they sit there and idle for 2 minutes before thay shut down or come in at full revs and switch strait off, Do they idle in a high gear to keep to pit lane speed limits so the engine is cooled down better or come in running hard in a low gear ?

And of course all of this is totally irrelevant but resorting to irrevelevance seem to be the norm now days.

This is probably going to offend you, but I can't ask without it seeming offensive. Can you post on a thread without typing a novel? Way too long. Apparently it's done in an attempt to prove you are more intelligent than everyone else, but it's too much to read. Engines run on the same principles of combustion. I understand what your points are, but the engine temperature on a car increases faster when it's going down the road at a higher rpm than it does sitting in your driveway idling. The same principles should apply to smaller engines such as mower engines.

Btw bertsmobile you are also partially right. I haven't been around any long stroke gas engines, but I have been around plenty of old Diesel engines such as the old long stroke engines on a popping john tractor which also should be idled before shutting off. Have antique tractor pulls in my area frequently. This is a topic that is going to be argued by several. No ones opinion will change from this, so I will leave it alone from now on.

May 8, 2015#61

Ric

Shughes717 said:
This is probably going to offend you, but I can't ask without it seeming offensive. Can you post on a thread without typing a novel? Way too long. Apparently it's done in an attempt to prove you are more intelligent than everyone else, but it's too much to read.

I agree and it's boring.

May 8, 2015#62

1

1striper1

Alaska_Guy said:
Well, missed my opportunity. Someone else snagged it!

I didn't make it to the air show. I have lived here over 30 years and I just don't do that kind of stuff anymore. I didn't get the snake oil.... I really don't believe in 99.9% of that stuff.

hmmmm....my mobile post didn't get posted. Oh well.

I said in an earlier post that I'm not a snake oil guy either, but this stuff works. It'll clean up the fuel system on your tractor. I guarantee it. :thumbsup:

May 9, 2015#63

1

1striper1

bertsmobile1 said:
And of course all of this is totally irrelevant but resorting to irrevelevance seem to be the norm now days.

Are you saying that us challenging the content of your posts is not allowed? That's what it sounds like to me.

When somebody tells me that I need "meds" or "that I'm not a man if my wife has to blow snow in winter"......I sure am going to pick your posts apart.

Too much bad advice is given (on any type of board) my people with high post counts. # of posts means sheet.....real world experience and the ability to properly analyze the results and turn that into recommendations is what's important.

End of rant....coffee is finished and I'm heading out to enjoy a beautiful day.

May 9, 2015#64

B

bertsmobile1

Shughes717 said:
This is probably going to offend you, but I can't ask without it seeming offensive. Can you post on a thread without typing a novel? Way too long. Apparently it's done in an attempt to prove you are more intelligent than everyone else, but it's too much to read. Engines run on the same principles of combustion. I understand what your points are, but the engine temperature on a car increases faster when it's going down the road at a higher rpm than it does sitting in your driveway idling. The same principles should apply to smaller engines such as mower engines.

Btw bertsmobile you are also partially right. I haven't been around any long stroke gas engines, but I have been around plenty of old Diesel engines such as the old long stroke engines on a popping john tractor which also should be idled before shutting off. Have antique tractor pulls in my area frequently. This is a topic that is going to be argued by several. No ones opinion will change from this, so I will leave it alone from now on.

No it is not going to offend, opinion is different to abuse, scarcasm & ridicule and is always welcome.
Sorry for the length but the reasoning is important otherwise we get to a he says vs you says.
Never tried to prove my intellect . Intellect does not make you right but it should allow you to realise when you are wrong and need to change your opinions.

And yes deisels need to be idled down brfore stopping. however that is to prevent running on which has been known to break cranks.
And it is the coolant temperature that increases more rapidly as the revs increase ( which is expected ) not the engine temperature, two different animals.think about it.

May 9, 2015#65

S

Shughes717

bertsmobile1 said:
No it is not going to offend, opinion is different to abuse, scarcasm & ridicule and is always welcome.
Sorry for the length but the reasoning is important otherwise we get to a he says vs you says.
Never tried to prove my intellect . Intellect does not make you right but it should allow you to realise when you are wrong and need to change your opinions.

And yes deisels need to be idled down brfore stopping. however that is to prevent running on which has been known to break cranks.
And it is the coolant temperature that increases more rapidly as the revs increase ( which is expected ) not the engine temperature, two different animals.think about it.

When coolant temp rises it's because engine temp is rising. Think about it.

May 18, 2015#66

R

rbstern

Shughes717 said:
No arguement from me. I have learned that by allowing my mower to idle for a few minutes before shutoff reduces the chances of backfire. My dealer instructed me to shut it off at full throttle. I have heard several mechanics and others on this site say the same. It just doesn't seem right to me. Here we go again. Sorry Alaska guy :smile:

Best way to shut a mower off, IMO? Leave it running, shut the fuel off. In this day and age of gasoline with a side helping of corn, I find my equipment works more reliably season to season if I put it away each time with the carburetor as dry as possible.

May 18, 2015#67

S

Shughes717

rbstern said:
Best way to shut a mower off, IMO? Leave it running, shut the fuel off. In this day and age of gasoline with a side helping of corn, I find my equipment works more reliably season to season if I put it away each time with the carburetor as dry as possible.

The ethanol vs non ethanol debate is a hot topic on this site as well. I have a gas station 5 minutes from my home that sells non ethanol fuel. That's what I put in my mower. I have had no issues at all.

May 18, 2015#68

B

bertsmobile1

Shughes717 said:
When coolant temp rises it's because engine temp is rising. Think about it.

And no, the coolant temperature is rising because it is taking more heat from the engine which is remaining at the same temperature because the cooling system is removing more heat.
The cooling system keeps the engine at a flat temperature once it has attained optimum running temperature
On a water cooled system the thermostat actually stops the engine getting too cool by closing down the water flow have a good objective think about it.

May 18, 2015#69

S

Shughes717

bertsmobile1 said:
And no, the coolant temperature is rising because it is taking more heat from the engine which is remaining at the same temperature because the cooling system is removing more heat.
The cooling system keeps the engine at a flat temperature once it has attained optimum running temperature
On a water cooled system the thermostat actually stops the engine getting too cool by closing down the water flow have a good objective think about it.

I fully understand how an engine coolant system works. The water temp increases faster when the engine is reved going down the road than it does sitting in the driveway, because more combustion is taking place (creating more heat). Water temp increases when the engine temp increases. Like I said in earlier post.

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