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Paing for a small engine repair course

#1

grumpygrizzly

grumpygrizzly

I'm a disabled vet and the VA approves and pays for training and I was wondering if anyone knew of a program that accepts that kind of payment?? I'm looking for a small engine repair course, preferably correspondence type like Foley Belsaw used to offer. Any help is greatly appreciated.


#2

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

You might want to look at EETC



#3

grumpygrizzly

grumpygrizzly

Thanks, checking it out now..


#4

grumpygrizzly

grumpygrizzly

Well, that went over like a fart in church.

I tried contacting EETC and entered my login, tried several passwords with it, asked them to send a new password and all I heard was crickets. It's 2:25PM Pacific Coast time here, maybe they've gone home for the day. I'll check in on them tomorrow.

Does anyone else know of any training centers?? Preferably that allow the VA to pay for the training. Hey, if I can get a free course out of the VA for my 20 years in the Air Force, I gotta try. I know there's a truck driving school up north of here but, man, I can't imagine driving up and down I-5 all day long.


#5

B

bertsmobile1

Don't know about the USA but down here Kohler have a cerification system totally on line & free .
Did it , got a certificate , did not really find out much that I did not already know but it looks good hanging off the wall next to my business registration certificate.
Both B & S and Kawakasi run tech courses down here that anyone can attend if they pay the fee.
worth contacting the engine makers directly .

That EETC site looks impressive as do the people behind it , apart from MTD all quality manufacturers .
Let us know how you go .
Down here we have an excellent TAFE system but you have to be a registered apprentice working for a registered business under the supervision of a licensed tradesperson to enrol in the courses .
Most technicians in dealers are not trades people so they can not train apprentices which serves the education department well because training mower mechanics is a lot more expensive than training book keepers & accountants so no surprise to find we are drastically short of qualified mower technicians.


#6

H

hlw49

Some Tech schools use to offer such courses might check them out.


#7

I

ILENGINE

Some Tech schools use to offer such courses might check them out.
A few years back I found that my local community college offered a small engine repair course. One of the prerequisites was you had to be incarcerated.


#8

R

Rivets

Back in the 80’s I used to teach a night course in small engine repair at the local technical college. Did a quick google search and found many online courses. Most of the technical colleges in Wisconsin still offer a course or two. If you can’t find something you like I suggest you talk to you local repair shops. Many times you can trade education for dirty work. Offer to do any dirty work they may have for being able to be along side their technicians. At the busy time of the year they may jump at the chance of cheap labor.


#9

grumpygrizzly

grumpygrizzly

I recall many moons ago taking a small engine course with my Dad through the local community college but.. man that's been a lot of moons ago for sure.

I was hoping to find the old Foley Belsaw program still up and running but, I guess it's gone out of business. I'm retired military and I'm thinking my Education benefits may have laps a few years back. Doesn't really matter to me though.

A few summers back I was out hitting yard sales and picking up small engines right and left at next to nothing. I actually had a Stihl leaf blower just given to me by one guy, took it home, cleaned the plug, fresh gas, and it ran like crazy.

Dang Covid has put a cramp on finding yard sales the past couple of years though. Might have to go back to Craigslist and start looking for non-runners I can restore and flip.

What I'd really love to do is to find an old service station that's been out of business a while and buy it, using one of the bays for my work area and the place where the cash register sits as a store I can sell parts and fluids in.

I've been doing AutoCad drafting for over 20+ years and manual drafting before that and I'm just tired of doing it all the time. I had a stepvan that I was going to make into a mobile small engine repair van but, the ole lady poo-pooed all over that idea. I still have a 14x60 shop in my back yard so there's plenty of space to make into a decent sized shop.

If anyone has any courseware from training they took, I'd love to get a copy of it or straight up buy it off you if you're up to that.

I did see where I can pick up a few manuals on small engine repair through a Google Search.


#10

R

Rivets

I did a quick google search “small engine training online” and found many opportunities, depending on what your needs are. Here are a few.





#11

R

Rivets

I should have added that this is the best textbook out there. Bit expensive, but you can find it under $100. Well worth the price If you really want to get into repairs. Local library may have a copy to look at before buying.


#12

B

bertsmobile1

FWIW :-
I sort of fell into small engine work
The oppertunity presented itself , I like doing mechanical work ( really wanted to be a mechanic as a kid ) & have been playing with vintage & veteran motorcycles for 40 years .
So how hard could repairing mowers be .
VERY BLOODY HARD is the answer .
Engines are the easy bit , all the rest of it was the problem.
I sort of bumbled my way through, watched endless videos on you tube
Then I had to do a JD 345 & a JD 415 so I coughed up the $ 300 ( aus ) for the pair of JD Technical manuals .
What a revelation
Finally a manual written for the layman to use that explains what to do , why you are doing it , how to do it & how to check you have done it properly .
What needs to be tested & how to test it .
from then on in it has been full steam ahead , apart from getting my head around belts.
Apart from that , MTD put out 4 volumes called "The Must have Manual of Outdoor Power Equipment "
Three of them are on the K & T web page https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/ the riding mower one, volume 2 is a bit harder to find but it is out there on the web & occasionally a hard copy comes up on ebay etc .
Armed with those 4 manuals + the background theory in the JD manuals there is virtually nothing you can not do .
However it is worth while repeating what one of my professors used to say repeatidly.
If all those students lined up at the photocopiers actually read the books in place of just copying them, they would get better grades .


#13

grumpygrizzly

grumpygrizzly

Don't know about the USA but down here Kohler have a cerification system totally on line & free .
Did it , got a certificate , did not really find out much that I did not already know but it looks good hanging off the wall next to my business registration certificate.
Both B & S and Kawakasi run tech courses down here that anyone can attend if they pay the fee.
worth contacting the engine makers directly .

That EETC site looks impressive as do the people behind it , apart from MTD all quality manufacturers .
Let us know how you go .
Down here we have an excellent TAFE system but you have to be a registered apprentice working for a registered business under the supervision of a licensed tradesperson to enrol in the courses .
Most technicians in dealers are not trades people so they can not train apprentices which serves the education department well because training mower mechanics is a lot more expensive than training book keepers & accountants so no surprise to find we are drastically short of qualified mower technicians.
This sounds a lot like what I'm looking for but.. I have one simple question.. Where exactly is "down here"??


#14

B

bertsmobile1

This sounds a lot like what I'm looking for but.. I have one simple question.. Where exactly is "down here"??
Australia


#15

StarTech

StarTech

Now Bert you know up and down is all relative. Down here is in my basement here or in a bomb shelter if you're in Ukraine. So what are you doing in my basement?

This something I never figured out as to why everyone thinks magnetic North is up and magnetic South is down. Maybe it is the other way around. In space there is not really an up or down.

And why did you cough up $300 when they can be gotten as PDFs for under 60 usd from a site I know about. And there are a few sellers on that site are a little lower and some that are a little higher.

Here is a couple examples>

1669642206344.png
1669642315405.png

But of course the admins here had to really pissed me off so I don't post where this site is now.


#16

B

bertsmobile1

Now Bert you know up and down is all relative. Down here is in my basement here or in a bomb shelter if you're in Ukraine. So what are you doing in my basement?

This something I never figured out as to why everyone thinks magnetic North is up and magnetic South is down. Maybe it is the other way around. In space there is not really an up or down.

And why did you cough up $300 when they can be gotten as PDFs for under 60 usd from a site I know about. And there are a few sellers on that site are a little lower and some that are a little higher.
Firstly it was the Europeans who designed the conventions and as they live in the north then north will be depected as being on the top .
I do have a "corrective" map of the world which shows Australia where it should be :devilish:

As for the manuals.
I want JD to continue making comprehensive well written & richly illustrated service manuals and not degrade them to slightly expanded users manuals .
I sub contracted to a company that made technical manuals so have a very good idea of the sorts of costs that go into publishing them and for the JD manuals you would be lucky to get one press ready for under $ 250,000 US.
If they do not sell in reasonable qualtities then a future board will decide that it would be a better use of company funds to stop making tech manuals for domestic mowers .
Remember that $ 250,000 comes strait out of profits and not making the manuals could drop the price of parts to increase their sales quantities
In a professional photo studio you would be lucky to get 10 photos done a day. And day rates up to $ 10,000/day are common for US photo studios. We used to do a lot of this photography here because Australian studios are substantially more efficient than US ones at an average of $ 3,000 to $ 5,000 / day, labour included .
Mower photos are a lot more complicated to take than the average Joe would understand and that is without the actual mechanical work involved with removing & eventually replacing all of the parts.
Even with good dedicated computer applications , you would be lucky to do a single JD wiring diagram in a day.
So you can safely add a days wages into the cost for every wiring diagram .

Thieft is thieft regardless of weather it is two blokes in ski masks carrying cut down shot guns of some spotty faced nerd on the end of a computer so buying a JD manual and lending it to some one is fine, buying a download & putting it on a disc for YOUR use is fine but buying a copy then selling more than one copy of that manual is THIEFT pure & simple.
I am particularly sensitive to this having spent over a year enlarging some motorcycle adverts , cleaning them up, adding the detail that got lost in printing, getting permission from the trade mark holders to sell a poster with their trade mark on it then finally doing a high quality 300 screen 6 colour print run on quality calendar stock which was laminated ( 20dr cold lamination ) so it would remain colour fast for at least 5 years in direct sunlight and better than 20 years indoors then attempting to sell them on Evilpay as it was the only on line platform at the time.
I sold about 50 of the 500 print run but before I had posted the very first one, the images that I had spent well over 1000 hours on ( remember we are in the days of Photoshop 2 & computers with 5 Gb hard drives ) my reworked images were for sale on mouse mats, T-shirts , fridge magnets , clocks, mirrors, coffee mugs , etc etc etc .
So as I took a massive financial loss on the first two I never bothered to do the remaining 12 in the series .
Finally I sold the computer files to a customer who prints fabric and the remaining posters from the print run got destroyed by basement flooding in a rented house .
We just had our BSA National Rally and I did all of the art work for it.
The bannar was really good considering the motorcycle images started off as 4" and ended up being 22"
Apart from the printer, no one hd seen the final bannar till it was erected at the rally.
The 4 motorcycle images became stock images on at least 5 print on demmand T-shirt companies before I got home a week latter & I only found out about that because one of the participants ( who is organizing next years event ) asked me how much the t-shirt company charged for using one of their images & when we checked when they added the "New BSAs" it was 3 days after the rally.

While not being a violent man, I would have no problem smashing the hands of computer thieves to a pulp so they could never so much as touch a keyboard again
FWIW several Lawers approached me to ask for permission to prosecute copyright infringers within the first month .I gave them all permission realizing I will never see a cent , but the more of the crettons that get a criminal record the better .

I am by & large an HONEST person.
I do not support criminal by purchasing stuff from the boot of a car in pub car parks that was obviously stolen.
IF no one bouht stolen goods then there would be almost no thieft.
So it is we, the moral majority that allow the criminal networks to exist that we expect the police to protect us from.


#17

StarTech

StarTech

Then you don't need access to the info I provide on the other forum. Account Deactivated. This helps keep you honest then by not being able to access those SMs, IPLs, and service bulletins.


#18

grumpygrizzly

grumpygrizzly

I did a quick google search “small engine training online” and found many opportunities, depending on what your needs are. Here are a few.



I heard a saying a long time ago.. "Those who can't do, teach"


#19

grumpygrizzly

grumpygrizzly

Firstly it was the Europeans who designed the conventions and as they live in the north then north will be depected as being on the top .
I do have a "corrective" map of the world which shows Australia where it should be :devilish:

As for the manuals.
I want JD to continue making comprehensive well written & richly illustrated service manuals and not degrade them to slightly expanded users manuals .
I sub contracted to a company that made technical manuals so have a very good idea of the sorts of costs that go into publishing them and for the JD manuals you would be lucky to get one press ready for under $ 250,000 US.
If they do not sell in reasonable qualtities then a future board will decide that it would be a better use of company funds to stop making tech manuals for domestic mowers .
Remember that $ 250,000 comes strait out of profits and not making the manuals could drop the price of parts to increase their sales quantities
In a professional photo studio you would be lucky to get 10 photos done a day. And day rates up to $ 10,000/day are common for US photo studios. We used to do a lot of this photography here because Australian studios are substantially more efficient than US ones at an average of $ 3,000 to $ 5,000 / day, labour included .
Mower photos are a lot more complicated to take than the average Joe would understand and that is without the actual mechanical work involved with removing & eventually replacing all of the parts.
Even with good dedicated computer applications , you would be lucky to do a single JD wiring diagram in a day.
So you can safely add a days wages into the cost for every wiring diagram .

Thieft is thieft regardless of weather it is two blokes in ski masks carrying cut down shot guns of some spotty faced nerd on the end of a computer so buying a JD manual and lending it to some one is fine, buying a download & putting it on a disc for YOUR use is fine but buying a copy then selling more than one copy of that manual is THIEFT pure & simple.
I am particularly sensitive to this having spent over a year enlarging some motorcycle adverts , cleaning them up, adding the detail that got lost in printing, getting permission from the trade mark holders to sell a poster with their trade mark on it then finally doing a high quality 300 screen 6 colour print run on quality calendar stock which was laminated ( 20dr cold lamination ) so it would remain colour fast for at least 5 years in direct sunlight and better than 20 years indoors then attempting to sell them on Evilpay as it was the only on line platform at the time.
I sold about 50 of the 500 print run but before I had posted the very first one, the images that I had spent well over 1000 hours on ( remember we are in the days of Photoshop 2 & computers with 5 Gb hard drives ) my reworked images were for sale on mouse mats, T-shirts , fridge magnets , clocks, mirrors, coffee mugs , etc etc etc .
So as I took a massive financial loss on the first two I never bothered to do the remaining 12 in the series .
Finally I sold the computer files to a customer who prints fabric and the remaining posters from the print run got destroyed by basement flooding in a rented house .
We just had our BSA National Rally and I did all of the art work for it.
The bannar was really good considering the motorcycle images started off as 4" and ended up being 22"
Apart from the printer, no one hd seen the final bannar till it was erected at the rally.
The 4 motorcycle images became stock images on at least 5 print on demmand T-shirt companies before I got home a week latter & I only found out about that because one of the participants ( who is organizing next years event ) asked me how much the t-shirt company charged for using one of their images & when we checked when they added the "New BSAs" it was 3 days after the rally.

While not being a violent man, I would have no problem smashing the hands of computer thieves to a pulp so they could never so much as touch a keyboard again
FWIW several Lawers approached me to ask for permission to prosecute copyright infringers within the first month .I gave them all permission realizing I will never see a cent , but the more of the crettons that get a criminal record the better .

I am by & large an HONEST person.
I do not support criminal by purchasing stuff from the boot of a car in pub car parks that was obviously stolen.
IF no one bouht stolen goods then there would be almost no thieft.
So it is we, the moral majority that allow the criminal networks to exist that we expect the police to protect us from.
Thieft is spelled Thief....


#20

grumpygrizzly

grumpygrizzly

I actually ran across a guy on a forum a few years ago that was re-writing or updating the old Foley Belsaw courseware and somehow I lost contact with him.

Man I wish I could get his info again..


#21

R

Rivets

Grumpy, as a teacher for 34+ years I take exception to your comment. Every occupation has there 5-10%, but to lump everyone into the same boat is a disservice to the good ones out there. Maybe all the bad ones live near you.


#22

grumpygrizzly

grumpygrizzly

I never looked at that saying in that way Rivets. The way it was brought to my attention was that the older mechanics (or anyone else in a profession out there) get, the less they can do in the areas like squatting down or even getting on thier knees to work on something and then not needing help to get back up.. THOSE are the group that can't DO anymore and a lot of them become teachers to share years of knowledge they've learned working in shops, schools, heck, driving big trucks down the highways.

Now don't go narrowing it down to only the ones that can't squat or get on thier knees.. Arthritis can hit all kinds of places on your body. Old injuries can slow you down as well..


#23

B

bertsmobile1

AND as an ex-part time TAFE teacher again your quote goes against the grain.
All of the part time teachers came from industry so they have DONE before they get allowed to each and once you have been out of industry for a while you have to stop.The head of school moved heaven & earth to keep me there but the best he got was an extra 2 years .
The big problem with education is politicians set the curriculum according to their political agendas and the higher up you go the worse it gets.
Try doing a Phd on a topic that your supervisor does not agree with .
So we now have cookie cutter degrees that systematise graduates and discourage free thinking so every director believes to their sox that all profits are made in the board room and managers who think every company is a McDonalds franchise .


#24

R

Rivets

You may not have meant it that way, but too many out there take it that way. I’ve heard it more often than I could count, a few in joking, but most assume that tech instructors are ones who couldn’t handle it out in the field and got out for an easier job for more pay. It’s probably the one area where my skin is the thinnest.


#25

B

bertsmobile1

And having been in a classroom , life is a lot easier on the job where I just have to fix the problem or do the job
Trying to show others how to do the job is a lot harder than doing it yourself.
I had problems & I was teaching adults ( supposedly ) and even then they think it was funny to glue a specime to the $ 5,000 electron microscope stage


#26

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Grumpy, as a teacher for 34+ years I take exception to your comment. Every occupation has there 5-10%, but to lump everyone into the same boat is a disservice to the good ones out there. Maybe all the bad ones live near you.
As someone who worked as a service rep for a conpany for 40 years and have been to dozens of training classes i can tell you there are good instructors and bad instructors. The bad ones were either "ladder climbers" or diversity hires or equal opportunity hires. I went to a class once on a machine using 220v and the equal opportunity instructor had never worked on anything 220v. He didn't know a hot and frame gave you 110v. In another class a diversity hire instructor didn't know how to use feeler gauges or an inside micrometer and tried to show a bunch of old service reps how to use them. We laughed them out of the class. Got lots of these stories. Most classes had good instructors but some were idiots or just an ass hole.


#27

E

Ertik

I heard a saying a long time ago.. "Those who can't do, teach"
Not always true.I retired,47 years of small engine repair.Still doing it from home.Would love to have someone to teach, to keep from going insane.Just hate that when i'm gone, all this knowledge is just ..poof.


#28

StarTech

StarTech

As someone who worked as a service rep for a company for 40 years and have been to dozens of training classes i can tell you there are good instructors and bad instructors. The bad ones were either "ladder climbers" or diversity hires or equal opportunity hires. I went to a class once on a machine using 220v and the equal opportunity instructor had never worked on anything 220v. He didn't know a hot and frame gave you 110v. In another class a diversity hire instructor didn't know how to use feeler gauges or an inside micrometer and tried to show a bunch of old service reps how to use them. We laughed them out of the class. Got lots of these stories. Most classes had good instructors but some were idiots or just an ass hole.
Yes when I worked for a fortune 500 company they would send me to training classes after I done been in the field on my own for two-three years. I usually knew more than the instructors did by then as I had real field experience of doing the repairs. One class I didn't even pay attention and pass the written test at the end of the class with a grade of 98 out of 100 questions.

What classroom instructors need to be are ones that actually did the work for several years themselves. Book learning is fine but real life learning is very important too.


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