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NGK Spark Plugs. Recent quality
#1
N
nbpt100
N
nbpt100
I have read a post on another small engine message board were several shop owners have had negative experiences using NGK spark plugs. They have been seeing early failures.
I don't use a lot of them to really say, but my experience has been fine.
Can any repair techs or shop owners comment on recent experiences? Was there a known problem with defective plugs going into the field? Perhaps this is a very local and isolated problem. I don't know but I am very curious to learn about folks experiences. Good, bad or indifferent. If you have seen issues note where you are located. Thanks.
I don't use a lot of them to really say, but my experience has been fine.
Can any repair techs or shop owners comment on recent experiences? Was there a known problem with defective plugs going into the field? Perhaps this is a very local and isolated problem. I don't know but I am very curious to learn about folks experiences. Good, bad or indifferent. If you have seen issues note where you are located. Thanks.
#2
M
MowLife
M
MowLife
Not a shop owner but use many different mowers commercially. For All my Briggs I use champions and my Kawasaki I use ngk. Kawasaki can use champions also but my fh580v seems to run better on ngk’s.
#3
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
I've ran NGK in all my engines, never had a problem, just replaced them according to manual specs.
#4
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
There is no profit in making standard spark plugs and this is reflected in the quality of standard plugs.
Modern fuels can be conducting at cylinder pressures .
NGK does not put a white ( contains lead ) glaze on it's electrodes so if the engine dos not fire & the fuel deposits on the unglazed insulator the plug will go "bad".
The cure is either to burn the deposit off or use another plug to warm up the engine then swap it for the NGK .
You can also pull the plug cap back 1/2" from the seated position, a trick we used in the "old days" to clean up an oil fouled plug and the actual mechanism behind most of those "Spark Intensifiers" that were popular in the 80's & 90's
Modern fuels can be conducting at cylinder pressures .
NGK does not put a white ( contains lead ) glaze on it's electrodes so if the engine dos not fire & the fuel deposits on the unglazed insulator the plug will go "bad".
The cure is either to burn the deposit off or use another plug to warm up the engine then swap it for the NGK .
You can also pull the plug cap back 1/2" from the seated position, a trick we used in the "old days" to clean up an oil fouled plug and the actual mechanism behind most of those "Spark Intensifiers" that were popular in the 80's & 90's
#5
S
SeniorCitizen
S
SeniorCitizen
There are certain engines they had a very short life span in 20 years ago, like less than 24 hours. Reminds me of the day I tried champion in a chevy 283 when AC was always suggested. Nearly had to walk home but about 9 mph was faster than walking.
#6
N
nbpt100
N
nbpt100
Thanks for everyone's input. So far no body has seen a quality issues with NGK spark plugs. That is is all I am trying to get at with this thread.
It is possible that a bad lot was made and these shops got it. I don't know I am just trying to see if this is smoke or or a real fire. I have found NGK to be a good plug if used in the right application. If anyone else can confirm this claim of early failures chime in. Thanks!
It is possible that a bad lot was made and these shops got it. I don't know I am just trying to see if this is smoke or or a real fire. I have found NGK to be a good plug if used in the right application. If anyone else can confirm this claim of early failures chime in. Thanks!
#7
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
A bad lot of plugs is possible, I got a case of Champion plugs a few years ago that would fail within 5 minutes of installing. I have had a random number of NGK plugs fail shortly after installation but nothing major.
#8
Beamster
Beamster
Using them over manufacturer speced Champions in Brit bikes. Vintage bike parts man liked them better and I've had no problems. Frankly I haven't seen a difference either way and never really wore either out or had failures. They were just chaged for tinker sake.
#9
T
txmowman
T
txmowman
Have never seen a problem with an NGK plug. I work for a distributor and in 30 years, never been a problem. Champion started using copper core, opposed to nickel back in the 80's. So technically, provided the application is similar, Champion should work nearly if not as well as NGK.
#10
J
jp1961
J
jp1961
Hello,
Spark plugs are like oil,,,everybody has their favorite.
I've been partial to Autolite,,they seems to make a quality plug.
Regards
Jeff
Spark plugs are like oil,,,everybody has their favorite.
I've been partial to Autolite,,they seems to make a quality plug.
Regards
Jeff
#11
Convert
Convert
I run NGK BP6ES plugs in my 1976 Moto Guzzi Convert motorcycle. Engine looks and operates the same as my Kawasaki FH641v, both engines are 90 degree V twins, the only difference is the layout.
The Guzzi engine/ bike ( 67000 miles) the crank is horizontal while the Kawasaki (575 Hours) is vertical shaft. Actually they are cousins as far as design goes
What I'm getting at is both of these engines are aircooled, run at high load, and both use NGK plugs without issues,
with other plugs (mfg) not so much
TOMB
The Guzzi engine/ bike ( 67000 miles) the crank is horizontal while the Kawasaki (575 Hours) is vertical shaft. Actually they are cousins as far as design goes
What I'm getting at is both of these engines are aircooled, run at high load, and both use NGK plugs without issues,
with other plugs (mfg) not so much
TOMB
#12
TylerFrankel1
TylerFrankel1
I'm not a shop owner but I do a lot of small engine work from my house when I can... I've fixed 6 push mowers for neighbors so far this season, and repaired several trash picks and a tractor (thanks to this forum might I add! Appreciate it!) I got 4 leaf blowers, worked on some string trimmers, have a go kart, a chain saw, a couple generators, a couple of pressure washers, yard vacuums, and yet...
I've never experienced a bad spark plug. I really am dumbfounded. I've worked on probably 40 or so engines at this point, and never encountered a non-firing plug. the NGK ones I have all work fine, so do champions, etc.
I'm Sure this will get me a lot of hate but admittedly I don't change plugs much anymore, because like I said they just aren't ever goin bad for me. If I have a rough/bad running engine or no spark I'll put a different plug in as a test measure to see if it improves, but otherwise, I just leave them. So far, not one is bad!
I've never experienced a bad spark plug. I really am dumbfounded. I've worked on probably 40 or so engines at this point, and never encountered a non-firing plug. the NGK ones I have all work fine, so do champions, etc.
I'm Sure this will get me a lot of hate but admittedly I don't change plugs much anymore, because like I said they just aren't ever goin bad for me. If I have a rough/bad running engine or no spark I'll put a different plug in as a test measure to see if it improves, but otherwise, I just leave them. So far, not one is bad!
#13
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
In my shop all i have are champion and some NGK. More important than What brand us in the engine but is the plug of the correct heat range. Many cross reference charts lump together 3 or 4 plugs of different heat ranges to cross one plug. So if you cross brands to a colder plug and it fouls in a few hours folks like to say that brand is trash. My 22 year old stihl FS80 has the original plug in it and it runs fine. If a spark plug is not operating in the self cleaning range of about 850 to 1000 degrees F it will carbon foul. My commercial customers run stuff hard enough i never see fould plugs but residential customers that baby the equipment or run it for short periods foul plugs all the time. The magneto ignitions on small engines don't generate the energy to eroded plug electrodes much. If the engine is operated so the plugs operate in the self cleaning range they should last a very long time.
#14
cpurvis
cpurvis
NGK has achieved enough brand recognition that counterfeits may be appearing.
#15
jakewells
jakewells
I use NGK or autolite and both are good in my book i never did like a champion.
#16
B
bertsmobile1
IT goes like this
And is a two forked problem.
The first bit is the EPA mandating things like 0.00 % lead in exhaust.
THis means that spark plugs can no longer have a glaze on the insulator on the center electrode thus attempts at mechanical cleaning leave a trail of metal particles to make a conductve path down the side of the electrode.
Second part is the mixture of random organic solvents masquerading as petrol that gets pumped into our vehicles .
Regularly what we get is a very light fuel oil with some aromatics tossed in so it can start when the air & engine temperatures are low.
This rubbish is conductive at cylinder compression pressures and will coat and stick to the non insulated center electrode and complete the alternative path down the side of the insulator to the root of the plug rather than jumping the gap.
This is what creates the "bad out the box" syndrome.
Once a plug is wetted like this it will nt work till it gets hot enough t burn off all of the crud so that cylinder will pump unburned fuel strait into the atmosphere till either it gets really hot or you swap it for another.
So once again we have a case of the EPA making things worse in an ignorant attempt to make things way better than they need to be .
As for plugs I could not express it any better than Hammarmechanic.
The right grade is far more important than the brand.
FWIW I have Champions & NGK's in my shop + a job lot of Bosch I got for 20¢ a plug a while back
B
bertsmobile1
I'm not a shop owner but I do a lot of small engine work from my house when I can... I've fixed 6 push mowers for neighbors so far this season, and repaired several trash picks and a tractor (thanks to this forum might I add! Appreciate it!) I got 4 leaf blowers, worked on some string trimmers, have a go kart, a chain saw, a couple generators, a couple of pressure washers, yard vacuums, and yet...
I've never experienced a bad spark plug. I really am dumbfounded. I've worked on probably 40 or so engines at this point, and never encountered a non-firing plug. the NGK ones I have all work fine, so do champions, etc.
I'm Sure this will get me a lot of hate but admittedly I don't change plugs much anymore, because like I said they just aren't ever goin bad for me. If I have a rough/bad running engine or no spark I'll put a different plug in as a test measure to see if it improves, but otherwise, I just leave them. So far, not one is bad!
IT goes like this
And is a two forked problem.
The first bit is the EPA mandating things like 0.00 % lead in exhaust.
THis means that spark plugs can no longer have a glaze on the insulator on the center electrode thus attempts at mechanical cleaning leave a trail of metal particles to make a conductve path down the side of the electrode.
Second part is the mixture of random organic solvents masquerading as petrol that gets pumped into our vehicles .
Regularly what we get is a very light fuel oil with some aromatics tossed in so it can start when the air & engine temperatures are low.
This rubbish is conductive at cylinder compression pressures and will coat and stick to the non insulated center electrode and complete the alternative path down the side of the insulator to the root of the plug rather than jumping the gap.
This is what creates the "bad out the box" syndrome.
Once a plug is wetted like this it will nt work till it gets hot enough t burn off all of the crud so that cylinder will pump unburned fuel strait into the atmosphere till either it gets really hot or you swap it for another.
So once again we have a case of the EPA making things worse in an ignorant attempt to make things way better than they need to be .
As for plugs I could not express it any better than Hammarmechanic.
The right grade is far more important than the brand.
FWIW I have Champions & NGK's in my shop + a job lot of Bosch I got for 20¢ a plug a while back
#17
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
I had issues with J19LM several years ago where you could install a plug in a push mower and it would run for 2-5 minutes and then quit with no fire. Replace the plug and do it again. Had about 100 plugs that did that one year. Switched to NGK after that. I have had a few like less than 5 BPMR7A also do the same thing in Stihl Chainsaws,I use NGK or autolite and both are good in my book i never did like a champion.
#18
StarTech
StarTech
The only NGKs I had problem with is the CMR6H (3365). They do some strange things from no spark to one case where a hedger was dieseling but mostly misfires. I chalk that up to them being 10mm versions. They do fail enough that I keep a couple boxes on hand.
I normally don't see many bad plugs in any brand but I am low volume shop too. With this mind I do change out worn plugs but it is not because of a failure to spark.
I normally don't see many bad plugs in any brand but I am low volume shop too. With this mind I do change out worn plugs but it is not because of a failure to spark.
#19
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
Pretty much everything that comes through my shop gets a new plug. I probably change a hundred plugs a year that are perfectly fine. I have customers that may only put 10 to 20 hours on a push mower but want me to do full maint every year. I change out new looking air filters and plugs. Then you get the mower that looks like 500 hours of use in a dust storm and the guy says he thinks the air filter is fine.
#20
B
bertsmobile1
Just regap the old plugs & put them back if they are good.
Draw attention the the fact that I did not change the plugs cause they were still good & no use in replacing a part that does not need replacing.
After that no one questions weather some thing I replace needed replacing or not.
The $ 1.50 profit from a plug sale is not missed and quickly gets recouped in things like carb & rocker cover gaskets that are always replaced
Local mechanics are apparently renown for charging for plugs that are not replaced and at least a 1/4 of the stuff that comes in has some sort of mark on the plugs so the owner will know they were actually changed .
IT was funny when several customers who all live near each other challenged my bill because the old plugs were still there without actually checking that they had not been charged for new plugs.
As for customers that tell me a part I want to replace is fine I hand them an imdemenity certificate to sign which relieves me of any warranty claim for the repair.
To date not a single person has signed it and that is the last time they try that one on.
Down here repairs must be guaranteed for 6 months by consumer law .
B
bertsmobile1
And I go the opposite way.Pretty much everything that comes through my shop gets a new plug. I probably change a hundred plugs a year that are perfectly fine. I have customers that may only put 10 to 20 hours on a push mower but want me to do full maint every year. I change out new looking air filters and plugs. Then you get the mower that looks like 500 hours of use in a dust storm and the guy says he thinks the air filter is fine.
Just regap the old plugs & put them back if they are good.
Draw attention the the fact that I did not change the plugs cause they were still good & no use in replacing a part that does not need replacing.
After that no one questions weather some thing I replace needed replacing or not.
The $ 1.50 profit from a plug sale is not missed and quickly gets recouped in things like carb & rocker cover gaskets that are always replaced
Local mechanics are apparently renown for charging for plugs that are not replaced and at least a 1/4 of the stuff that comes in has some sort of mark on the plugs so the owner will know they were actually changed .
IT was funny when several customers who all live near each other challenged my bill because the old plugs were still there without actually checking that they had not been charged for new plugs.
As for customers that tell me a part I want to replace is fine I hand them an imdemenity certificate to sign which relieves me of any warranty claim for the repair.
To date not a single person has signed it and that is the last time they try that one on.
Down here repairs must be guaranteed for 6 months by consumer law .
#21
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
As cheap as plugs are the few dollars it adds to the bill is negligible. Like fuel filters. I change about every one that comes in.
#22
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Same here. Not a good plug vs bad plug thing. More of a, you remove the plug anyway, easier and more reliable to just replace than go through the motions of cleaning and regapping. And I have seen brand new looking air filters be plugged to the point that black smoke rolls out the muffler when installed, and will clear as soon as the filter is removed.Pretty much everything that comes through my shop gets a new plug. I probably change a hundred plugs a year that are perfectly fine. I have customers that may only put 10 to 20 hours on a push mower but want me to do full maint every year. I change out new looking air filters and plugs. Then you get the mower that looks like 500 hours of use in a dust storm and the guy says he thinks the air filter is fine.
#23
tom3
tom3
And the electronic ignitions are so strong they fire about anything.
#24
TylerFrankel1
TylerFrankel1
My work in Small Engines has only increased my disdain for big government. Everything the EPA has done for small engines sucks. Crappy gas cans, crappy 2 stroke carburetors, crappy 4 stroke OHVs, spark plugs, etc. It's a frickin lawn mower! And of course more regulations = more expensive product = company has to cut costs = crappy quality products = short lifespan = more garbage/waste. Genius.IT goes like this
And is a two forked problem.
The first bit is the EPA mandating things like 0.00 % lead in exhaust.
THis means that spark plugs can no longer have a glaze on the insulator on the center electrode thus attempts at mechanical cleaning leave a trail of metal particles to make a conductve path down the side of the electrode.
Second part is the mixture of random organic solvents masquerading as petrol that gets pumped into our vehicles .
Regularly what we get is a very light fuel oil with some aromatics tossed in so it can start when the air & engine temperatures are low.
This rubbish is conductive at cylinder compression pressures and will coat and stick to the non insulated center electrode and complete the alternative path down the side of the insulator to the root of the plug rather than jumping the gap.
This is what creates the "bad out the box" syndrome.
Once a plug is wetted like this it will nt work till it gets hot enough t burn off all of the crud so that cylinder will pump unburned fuel strait into the atmosphere till either it gets really hot or you swap it for another.
So once again we have a case of the EPA making things worse in an ignorant attempt to make things way better than they need to be .
As for plugs I could not express it any better than Hammarmechanic.
The right grade is far more important than the brand.
FWIW I have Champions & NGK's in my shop + a job lot of Bosch I got for 20¢ a plug a while back