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Murray just won't start (model shows murray 45000X8)

#1

A

astrolux

Hello everyone!


I am new to the form, so hello and hope you can give me some advice.

First off, I am not a car nor am I a small engine guy, never fixed much other than putting in new batteries, lights, spark plugs, etc, but either way I have a problem with my mower.

It's a rather old Murray, with a brigss engine, given to me by my father in law. It worked fine the other day. I cranked it up, cut the grass, put in some new gas, and then when I went to put it in our little shed it would not start. It wouldn't even click. The flywheel would spin maybe a few turns, slowly, then die out. I got a new battery, it's fine, I checked it with my multi-meter, it's pushing out 12.93 volts. I also got a new fuse, changed the oil, and a new spark plug, changed the air filter and bought a new solenoid. It still doesn't start. I checked the cable from the battery to the first mount on the solenoid, it gets about 12.9 volts (that's on the battery side). I even put a wrench in the middle of the solenoid and it will spark, but doesn't crank, and what is weird is that it will not CLICK unless I have that wrench in the middle of the two sol. posts, if I take it away, it won't make that click/clunk noise. The only way we got it to start was hooking a jumper from the battery + terminal and then hooking the other end directly onto the positive cable running to the starter motor, and then it will turn over, I turn the key and it cranks.

I am at a loss, I am not sure how to go about testing wires/grounds, and if it's the ignition switch, but normally if it was the ignition switch would it have cranked when I turned the key from on to start when I jumped the starter motor?

Any help would be appreciated. I don't have a huge yard, but down in SC during the summer it is hot as heck, and using my push mower isn't too fun.


#2

Boobala

Boobala

astrolux said:
Hello everyone!


I am new to the form, so hello and hope you can give me some advice.

First off, I am not a car nor am I a small engine guy, never fixed much other than putting in new batteries, lights, spark plugs, etc, but either way I have a problem with my mower.

It's a rather old Murray, with a brigss engine, given to me by my father in law. It worked fine the other day. I cranked it up, cut the grass, put in some new gas, and then when I went to put it in our little shed it would not start. It wouldn't even click. The flywheel would spin maybe a few turns, slowly, then die out. I got a new battery, it's fine, I checked it with my multi-meter, it's pushing out 12.93 volts. I also got a new fuse, changed the oil, and a new spark plug, changed the air filter and bought a new solenoid. It still doesn't start. I checked the cable from the battery to the first mount on the solenoid, it gets about 12.9 volts (that's on the battery side). I even put a wrench in the middle of the solenoid and it will spark, but doesn't crank, and what is weird is that it will not CLICK unless I have that wrench in the middle of the two sol. posts, if I take it away, it won't make that click/clunk noise. The only way we got it to start was hooking a jumper from the battery + terminal and then hooking the other end directly onto the positive cable running to the starter motor, and then it will turn over, I turn the key and it cranks.

I am at a loss, I am not sure how to go about testing wires/grounds, and if it's the ignition switch, but normally if it was the ignition switch would it have cranked when I turned the key from on to start when I jumped the starter motor?

Any help would be appreciated. I don't have a huge yard, but down in SC during the summer it is hot as heck, and using my push mower isn't too fun.
Click to expand...

Your engine info ( Model,type, & code numbers ) would help, but it sounds as though you need to adjust the valves ASSUMING it's an OHV model engine see attached info..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEUt_KAcYk&t=21s



ENG ID.jpg .. if you have OHV engine .. numbers located here on the valve cover


#3

P

Pumper54

astrolux said:
Hello everyone!


I am new to the form, so hello and hope you can give me some advice.

First off, I am not a car nor am I a small engine guy, never fixed much other than putting in new batteries, lights, spark plugs, etc, but either way I have a problem with my mower.

It's a rather old Murray, with a brigss engine, given to me by my father in law. It worked fine the other day. I cranked it up, cut the grass, put in some new gas, and then when I went to put it in our little shed it would not start. It wouldn't even click. The flywheel would spin maybe a few turns, slowly, then die out. I got a new battery, it's fine, I checked it with my multi-meter, it's pushing out 12.93 volts. I also got a new fuse, changed the oil, and a new spark plug, changed the air filter and bought a new solenoid. It still doesn't start. I checked the cable from the battery to the first mount on the solenoid, it gets about 12.9 volts (that's on the battery side). I even put a wrench in the middle of the solenoid and it will spark, but doesn't crank, and what is weird is that it will not CLICK unless I have that wrench in the middle of the two sol. posts, if I take it away, it won't make that click/clunk noise. The only way we got it to start was hooking a jumper from the battery + terminal and then hooking the other end directly onto the positive cable running to the starter motor, and then it will turn over, I turn the key and it cranks.

I am at a loss, I am not sure how to go about testing wires/grounds, and if it's the ignition switch, but normally if it was the ignition switch would it have cranked when I turned the key from on to start when I jumped the starter motor?

Any help would be appreciated. I don't have a huge yard, but down in SC during the summer it is hot as heck, and using my push mower isn't too fun.
Click to expand...

As Boo said a little more info would help but a couple of quick down and dirty questions for you: Are the blades still engaged and are you sitting on the seat with the brake petal fully depressed? Safety switches will keep the mower from starting if they are not engaged.
Tom


#4

A

astrolux

I'll get that for ya later...I am at work :(. We are holding the break down, it's in N, and I am sitting on the seat, blades are not engaged, etc. All seems fine. I will get the model # and all that later.


#5

A

astrolux

in that video it shows the flywheel spinning a bit. it USED to do that, about 5 seconds before it died, it doesn't even spin or crank or click at this point or try to turn over (with new batt, sol, fuse and spark plug). I do not believe I have an OHV because I took off the front cover where the spark plug is and I did not see anything like that video shows but I may have just overlooked it. Anyway, at this point the only way it works is if I jump the starter motor with the battery which bypasses all the electrical system.


#6

Boobala

Boobala

In the mean time, here's a quick informative video of a starting problem,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8m88LawN0I&t=10s

also if you have a MURRAY mower the first 2 numbers are NORMALLY the numbers of the deck cutting size.. ie. 38, 40, 42, 46... your displayed # 45000x8 is not a viable MURRAY model #

here's a Wiring Diagram of a 40 in. Murray, most murrays are SIMILAR in wiring may have different colors though ...111DIAGRAM.JPG ... click 2 enlarge....


#7

A

astrolux

My wife was outside today and redid the solenoid, it now works, BUT she has to bang the solenoid, which is usally a sign it is bad, but it's BRAND NEW oem BS part, it gets 12.99 volts on the right side (battery+ side) and it will turn over, and she did ride it around the yard, but it wont crank with banging the solenoid, could it be a bad one? Or a wiring issue or ignition issue at that point?


#8

P

Pumper54

astrolux said:
My wife was outside today and redid the solenoid, it now works, BUT she has to bang the solenoid, which is usally a sign it is bad, but it's BRAND NEW oem BS part, it gets 12.99 volts on the right side (battery+ side) and it will turn over, and she did ride it around the yard, but it wont crank with banging the solenoid, could it be a bad one? Or a wiring issue or ignition issue at that point?
Click to expand...

I have a riding mower that the starter motor stopped working, I tapped it and it worked, then it happened again several times and it would start if you tapped the starter, turns out that before I tapped on the starter I moved a wiring harness out of the way and one time the mower started without the tap so I started looking at the wiring harness and it had a bad connection in it. The mower was under warranty I took it back to the dealer and they fixed it. You might examine the wiring harness around the starting system to see if you have any loose wires or corrosion in the connections. Just a thought
Tom


#9

Boobala

Boobala

My oversight, Pumper is correct in bringing up the wiring, pay particular attention to your battery cables, BOTH ends of every cable (double check the GROUND cable) and solenoid wires, also check the IGN. switch connector for looseness or corrosion, the Murray solenoids MUST have a clean metal to ground where it screws onto the frame (I even added an EXTRA grounding wire from one of the the mounting screws to the eng block) and don't always trust NEW electrical equipment, could be a defective solenoid too.....keep us up-dated


#10

P

Pumper54

Boobala said:
My oversight, Pumper is correct in bringing up the wiring, pay particular attention to your battery cables, BOTH ends of every cable (double check the GROUND cable) and solenoid wires, also check the IGN. switch connector for looseness or corrosion, the Murray solenoids MUST have a clean metal to ground where it screws onto the frame (I even added an EXTRA grounding wire from one of the the mounting screws to the eng block) and don't always trust NEW electrical equipment, could be a defective solenoid too.....keep us up-dated
Click to expand...

Every now and then a Blind Squirrel (me) finds an acorn. LOL
Tom


#11

A

astrolux

well i got more info on the model/engine

atelast this is all i could read off of the b&s engine and the orange murray sticker shows just 4050008x no B, C, A, nothing. Then below it has part #'s for the blade, fuse, etc. I do not have the manual either, this was given to me from my father in law awhile back.

model: 28R707
TYPE:1120-E1
CODE: 030204ZD


Here has what has been done so far

new fuse, (fuse is good, checked it with multimeter/continuity test), new spark plug, new air filter, changed oil, new gas, also got a new battery, measuring 12.88 volts now, I checked the battery side of the NEW solenoid, that is getting 12.88 volts as well. I have also got a new IGN switch, and that still doesn't work. I still have to jump the solenoid. Wiring seems fine, nothing is loose or broke, I blew out some dirt and just traced wires, but nothing looks destroyed. Still, the only way I can get it to work is to jump the solenoid. I just can't imagine I would have a BAD new solenoid, but nothing surprises me now days. I am sure I can buy a new one to give it a try, or just jump the darn thing each time I cut the grass, it doesn't really matter, but I already put 70 bucks or so in it which beats 1200 for a new one lol. Should I try a new solenoid or are there any other tests I can do at this point?

Thanks


#12

Boobala

Boobala

astrolux said:
well i got more info on the model/engine

atelast this is all i could read off of the b&s engine and the orange murray sticker shows just 4050008x no B, C, A, nothing. Then below it has part #'s for the blade, fuse, etc. I do not have the manual either, this was given to me from my father in law awhile back.

model: 28R707
TYPE:1120-E1
CODE: 030204ZD


Here has what has been done so far

new fuse, (fuse is good, checked it with multimeter/continuity test), new spark plug, new air filter, changed oil, new gas, also got a new battery, measuring 12.88 volts now, I checked the battery side of the NEW solenoid, that is getting 12.88 volts as well. I have also got a new IGN switch, and that still doesn't work. I still have to jump the solenoid. Wiring seems fine, nothing is loose or broke, I blew out some dirt and just traced wires, but nothing looks destroyed. Still, the only way I can get it to work is to jump the solenoid. I just can't imagine I would have a BAD new solenoid, but nothing surprises me now days. I am sure I can buy a new one to give it a try, or just jump the darn thing each time I cut the grass, it doesn't really matter, but I already put 70 bucks or so in it which beats 1200 for a new one lol. Should I try a new solenoid or are there any other tests I can do at this point?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Did you WATCH this VIDEO I sent in an earlier post ..?? EXPLAINS a NO-START CHECKLIST !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8m88LawN0I&t=10s


#13

A

astrolux

Boobala said:
Did you WATCH this VIDEO I sent in an earlier post ..?? EXPLAINS a NO-START CHECKLIST !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8m88LawN0I&t=10s
Click to expand...



Yeah I've watched it a few times when I was outside working on it. I even got another solenoid just for the heck of it, does the same thing. I still have to jump the posts to get it to crank. It could be a safety switch or wiring issue, but I've put enough time into at this point. If it starts when I bridge the gap, great. It's 15 years old or so, and was free, so putting in 70 bucks isn't a big deal...I was just trying to get it working "normally", but at this point I am not going to put anymore time or money into it. I can't afford a new one, so when it comes time to cut the lawn, I'll jump it, and call it a day. It cuts off normal (i.e. when I get off the seat/break, and cut it off with the ignition switch) so it seems to still be "safe" when riding, cause I rode it around the yard and when I lifted up, it still cut off like it usually does and when I turn the key off, it does kill the engine, so I guess I'll just use it till it completely dies.


#14

B

bertsmobile1

in order for the solenoid to work it need to get a 10 V signal down the trigger wire and because it is electricity there must be a sound ground.
If there are 2 small wires, one is the trigger & the other the trigger ground
Thus one must go better than 10V with the key switch in the start position and the other must show ) ohms to ground.

So you start there .
To test the solenoid you bridge the + trigger wire to the battery cable.
Engine cranks then the solenoid is fine.

If the solenoid only has one small wire then the ground is through the metallic base
You get corrosion there so no ground untill you give it a tap.
So verify the trigger wiring and the grounding.

If no trigger voltage the you have a wiring problem in the cranking circuit.

12 volts goes from the Battery post on the solenoid to a fuse which powers the mower.
Rookie mistake is to put that wire on the starter post thus you can only start the engine by jumping the cable terminals.

Carrying on, the 12V goes through the fuse to the B terminal on the key switch then across to the S terminal ( switch is marked ) .
From there it goes through the PTO & BRAKE safety switches and finally down to the solenoid.
Easiest thing to do is make up some patch cables with a make spade on each end and bypass the switches, one at a time, starting with the key switch B <> S
The switches are simple sliding contact and work flat to flat
I <> I
I <> I

One pair is normally closed ( kill wires ) the other pair are normally open.
If you bridge the kill wires the engine will still crank but not start,
Just don't jump them diagonally.


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